Is someone a carrier of hepititis C if they have spontaneously cleared the virus?

[magpie266]

Is someone a carrier of hepititis C if they have spontaneously cleared the virus?

I am researching reasons that the armed forces may not accept somene with the above...

help would be appreciated

thanks :o)

[Lady Lauri]

jmjm,Mike, Mremeet.....good info, good discussion.

jmjm....Oh. Then I would ask the Queen :)............lmao

magpie, good luck in this, especially if you go in the Army.

Mar2020.....I think you lost us here.
You have Hep B? Testing negative? 'looking for marriage'???
There is a Hepatitis B forum, you can start there. Good luck.

[Mar2020]

Hi Good Morning,

Can anyone help me any girl with hepatites b Virus who is looking for marriage plzzz.

[Mar2020]

Hi Good Morning my name is Kumar and i recently came to know that iam suffereing with hbs ag(+ve) and i have checked the hospital records when i admitted at the age of 16 where from that time iam suffereing with hbs ag(+ve) its almost 8-Years....

However i met one of the doctor and under went for HBV DNA test and also couple of test where all of that came negative except hbs ag(+ve) where doctor said that i don't need any medication, however he says need to go for ultra sound every 6-months..........

Is their anyway i can get hbs ag(+ve) as negative.................

Plz  help me........

[jmjm530]

MS: the real question is: What does that mean for our overall health?
----------------
That has always been the real issue as far as I'm concerned.

[mikesimon]

Well, unless you believe that his research and findings are completely erroneous it is hard to deny that the virus has been found in blood, liver and PBMCs of SVRs and I
haven't seen any scholarly refutation of his methods or findings.

From the article:

"It has been presumed that resolution of hepatitis C, as evidenced by normalization of liver function tests and negativity of serum HCV RNA, determined by the current standard laboratory assays, reflects viral eradication. Recent evidence from our
laboratory and others, however, indicates that by employing more sensitive nucleic acid detection tests, low levels of HCV RNA can be identified in sera, lymphoid cells, and hepatic tissue for years after apparent complete recovery from hepatitis....
Further, the invariable detection of replicating HCV genomes in lymphoid cells from individuals with either occult or symptomatic infection attests to the existence of an
extrahepatic compartment for HCV replication. In addition to consistent identification of HCV RNA in ex vivo stimulated peripheral lymphoid cells, HCV RNA has also been detected in liver tissue of asymptomatic individuals with a sustained response to antiviral treatment.3,5 Although these patients generally exhibit histologically apparent improvement after IFN-alpha/Ribavirin therapy, including partial regression
of fibrosis, liver biopsies from many of them show evidence of persistent minimal inflammation or even of active chronic hepatitis."

I think the virus is there alright and the real question is: What does that mean for our overall health? I really have no investment in anything other than wanting to know the truth. I'll deal with that regardless of how it plays out - as will we all.

Mike

[jmjm530]

I'm OK with SVR as it now exists. In the future it may turn out that Pham is correct, incorrect, or partially correct. It may also turn out that if he's correct, the persistent/occult virus has no clinical significance or it may turn out it has some clinical significance. My personal opinion is that there will be no clinical significance to what he says he's found.

That said, I hope I'm wrong. I hope he's correct and there is a clinical signficance, because that potentially means that some of the symptons many of us report -- like DD and myself -- post treatment might therefore be treated with some future anti-viral. It's a nice thought but I really don't believe it nor am I waiting with held breath :)

-- Jim

[mikesimon]

I have been thinking about the Pham article. If he is right, and I believe that he is, that  Occult/Persistent HCV remains in many, if not the majority, of SVRs then it would be reasonable that hepatitis C antibodies would also remain in SVRs. This may be a significant distinction between those who experience spontaneous recovery and those who achieve SVR following treatment. Now, I am not suggesting or implying that SVR does not confer dramatic benefits because I believe that it does. I do believe, however, that traces of replicating virus remain and exactly how or if that affects  overall health has yet to be determined. I believe that as the sensitivity of viral detection tests improves these issues will come to the forefront and that DoubleDose may finally get some answers to his myriad questions. Mike

[Trish77]

Yes, I was truly referring to Hep B and only as a comparison and that's why I said "I don't know if this is of any help at all"...simply referring to the fact that Hep B antibodies remain in the blood even if you've cleared it and are non-contagious/immune.  So.. all in all, pretty useless information really when she's asking about HCV ....  however I wanted her to distinguish what THEY mean by being a carrier.. if it means being contagious or simply having antibodies of ANY kind.  

[mikesimon]

I don't know whether the absence of antibodies can occur with SVR from treatment. I did find this which seem to support a loss of antibodies after acute infection and recovery. Treatment/SVR was not addressed - only resolution of acute vs chronic HCV.

"In contrast to a detailed understanding of antiviral cellular immune responses, the impact of neutralizing antibodies for the resolution of acute hepatitis C is poorly defined. The analysis of neutralizing responses has been hampered by the fact that patient cohorts as well as hepatitis C virus (HCV) strains are usually heterogeneous, and that clinical data from acute-phase and long-term follow-up after infection are not readily available. Using an infectious retroviral HCV pseudoparticle model system, we studied a cohort of women accidentally exposed to the same HCV strain of known sequence. In this single-source outbreak of hepatitis C, viral clearance was associated with a rapid induction of neutralizing antibodies in the early phase of infection. Neutralizing antibodies decreased or disappeared after recovery from HCV infection. In contrast, chronic HCV infection was characterized by absent or low-titer neutralizing antibodies in the early phase of infection and the persistence of infection despite the induction of cross-neutralizing antibodies in the late phase of infection. These data suggest that rapid induction of neutralizing antibodies during the early phase of infection may contribute to control of HCV infection. This finding may have important implications for understanding the pathogenesis of HCV infection and for the development of novel preventive and therapeutic antiviral strategies."

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1851610

[jmjm530]

Kava Kava has been linked to liver damage. Kava Kava couldn't have brought the virus back if it was truly gone, but it could have caused an enzyme flare which is what you may have experienced. Technically you were "chronic" six months after you were infected via the blood transfusion. Often there are no symptons in either the acute or chronic stage. BTW I had a similar reaction around 4 years ago from some Chinese Herbs of unknown origin, or perhaps the Hep B vaccine -- not sure as I took them at the same time.

-- Jim

[GrandmaA]

What a conincidence I'm part Irish and I was infected in 1977 through a blood transfusion. I only carried antibodie for hep. C, I had no acute or chronic condition until 2 or 3 years later after I took 1 1/2 bottles of kava kava and it brought on the chronic condition. I never had the acute one.

[jmjm530]

"In a study of a cohort of Irish women infected with HCV via contaminated anti-D immunoglobulin in 1977, 47.1% of 68 women who had spontaneous clearance of HCV still had anti-HCV antibodies 18 years after the initial infection."
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/432543 (free Medscape Registration Required"

[jmjm530]

I wonder if something is missing from the translation or just a difference of opinion. The statement "and completely disappearing 10 to 20 years after resolution of hepatitis' seems wrong and seems to need the modifer "in many patients" added -- as did the study you posted some time ago showed and others as well:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/hepatitis/messages/42207.html

[mremeet]

Thanks for that information about the antibody decay, first time I've ever seen something like that. I suppose they're only talking about people who naturally cleared the virus in the study you've referenced? Any word on people who had been chronically infected for many years prior to getting their SVR? Like would they lose their antibodies at the same rate as a naturally cleared person? And also, how do they know that a complete resolution of HCV antibodies may take up to 20 years since the test for HCV hasn't been around that long? In other words, they would have to know exactly when someone was infected before they could start their clock, and since there was no test for HCV in 1980 (this citation was referenced in 2000), and wasn't even widely available in 1990 either, how could they know for certain how long ago some "natural SVR" people had been initially infected?

[l-horn]

is a retired Army Colonel and was head of gastroenteroloy at Walter Reed before going into private practice. He may be able to help you. His name is Shaleish Kadakia and he is now in private practice in San Antonio, Texas.

[mikesimon]

From:
Occult hepatits C virus persistence: identification and characteristics
By Tram N.Q. Pham, PhD, and Tomasz I. Michalak, MD, PhD

Antibodies to HCV (anti-HCV) are detectable by commercially available enzyme-linked immunoassays in 50% to 70% of patients at the onset of symptoms,increasing to more than 90% after three months, and completely disappearing 10
to 20 years after resolution of hepatitis.

The reference citation for that statement according to the footnote is:
Takaki A, Wiese M, Maertens G, Depla E, Seifert U, Liebetrau A, Miller JL, Manns
MP, Rehermann B. Cellular immune response persist, humoral responses decrease
two decades after recovery from a single source outbreak of hepatitis C. Nature
Med. 2000;6:578-582

Mike

[jmjm530]

Oh. Then I would ask the Queen :)

[mremeet]

Trish you stated above that "acute" means you "had" the virus but cleared it. An acute infection simply means you are in the early phases of the infection with no regard to whether or not you will clear the virus later (either naturally or via antiviral drug therapy). And as far as "carrier", I've never heard of HCV being referred to that way. Other than simply being chronically infected and being asymptomatic with no liver damage. But whatever, I guess a rose by any other name is still a virus.

magpie - I don't think anyone really knows for sure if the antibodies will last your entire life. Especially considering how young you were when you contracted and then naturally cleared the virus. As the decades roll by, you may eventually no longer test + for HCV antibodies. They do typically decrease over time, just like other antibodies for other viruses or vaccines you may have had. But depending on how old you are now, I seriously doubt they'll test negative within the window of time that you'll be eligible for service.

[magpie266]

Just one more thing this is the UK army... :o)

[jmjm530]

You probably will always have Hep C antibodies but some people do lose them over time. I suppose you could test for antibodies every year or so if really interested, just don't have too high an expectation they will disappear.

[jmjm530]

Trish mentioned "hep b" so not sure if a mistake or if she's talking about hep b. In any event, Hep C is different.

There is no such thing as a Hep C "carrier". You either have Hep C or you don't. And since you don't have any viral load, you don't have Hep C.

-- Jim

[magpie266]

One more question - will I always have the anti-bodies in my blood?

[magpie266]

I have never had treatment for this but I was only 15 when contracted and therefore my body cleared it withiut me even knowing i had it..... I found out 3 years later accidently .... lets hope they let me in.... many thanks for your help and i will keep you informed as to whether they do let me in.... many thanks again

[Trish77]

This may be of no help at all but I'll include it anyway.  There are three phases of Hep B.  Acute, Carrier and Chronic.  Acute means you had, it cleared it and while the antibodies remain in your blood, you are non-infectious and immune by virtue of the properties of the antibodies that you have.  You are NOT considered a Carrier.  A Carrier is as mremeet describes...IS infectious however the disease is not harming you.

You might want to determine what they mean by "Carrier" which could be their way of saying "infectious" and able to pass it on to others.  And then determine if that is your status.

Hope this helps.