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Happy Holidays :o)
A friend sent this is an email today. Good reminder for me...especially having to deal with the inlaws during the Holidays...lol Forgiveness IS very beneficial for the immune system! : )
Wishing all a Super-Fantastic Holiday Season!!!
Forgive...
As I forgive, I move on in life, creating new memories of happiness
and peace.
One of the most difficult things I may ever be asked to do is to
forgive someone who I feel has treated me unfairly or unkindly. Yet I
also know that if I continue to think about the apparent injustice,
the anguish I feel will continue, and even increase, in intensity.
Releasing all resentment and anger over the past, I am able to
forgive. Through forgiveness, I free myself of reliving the past
through painful memories. I then can move on in my life
and create new memories of happiness and peace.
Each act of forgiveness inspires a healing response within me that
relieves me of stress. Forgiveness sets me free to live more fully in
each moment, to experience the joy of life that was intended for me.
Wishing all a Super-Fantastic Holiday Season!!!
Forgive...
As I forgive, I move on in life, creating new memories of happiness
and peace.
One of the most difficult things I may ever be asked to do is to
forgive someone who I feel has treated me unfairly or unkindly. Yet I
also know that if I continue to think about the apparent injustice,
the anguish I feel will continue, and even increase, in intensity.
Releasing all resentment and anger over the past, I am able to
forgive. Through forgiveness, I free myself of reliving the past
through painful memories. I then can move on in my life
and create new memories of happiness and peace.
Each act of forgiveness inspires a healing response within me that
relieves me of stress. Forgiveness sets me free to live more fully in
each moment, to experience the joy of life that was intended for me.
Wow, what great posts! The only time I can forget, as I can't forgive my brother, as the offense continues, is when my mother is not at home. She is in the hospital. Broke her hip and will be in rehab for a few weeks now.She was in the hospital over Christmas and I could talk to her. I can't seem to bring myself to call their home when I know the ahole is living their taking her money. I found out he has her ATM and checkbook. For awhile I couldn't forgive her for allowing it to happen. But I am so happy she is away and will be for some time. I can forgive her and will. but not my brother. I don't like to think about him much as it makes me feel so toxic. I saw my other siblings Wed. and we had so much fun. We hardly mentioned him and I was glad. Until he sees the light of what he has done, I will never forgive him. He has told me he would help my Dad, didn't, ended in a court battle that his wife won and got all my Dad's money. The brother was cut off from the wife and she ended up with it all. I don't give a damn about the money. But I hate the way my father died. I hate the way my mother is living and hope she stays away from that house forever.
I try not to think about this jerk much, that's why i don't call my mother. I end up yelling at her. With her out of the house, I feel so much better talking to her and she is thrilled to hear from me. Perhaps she is weak. Perhaps as my father claimed at the end of his life that, that Scott was not his son. My mom did desert us many years ago, so I can believe it. Perhaps this is why she protects him so much. It doesn't matter, if he was a decent person, but he is NOT. Not one bit of him.
Do you think this is unhealthy for me? It doesn't seem that I think about him often, but perhaps my unconsious does. I really believe he will have to show me he has changed before I could ever forgive him.
I try not to think about this jerk much, that's why i don't call my mother. I end up yelling at her. With her out of the house, I feel so much better talking to her and she is thrilled to hear from me. Perhaps she is weak. Perhaps as my father claimed at the end of his life that, that Scott was not his son. My mom did desert us many years ago, so I can believe it. Perhaps this is why she protects him so much. It doesn't matter, if he was a decent person, but he is NOT. Not one bit of him.
Do you think this is unhealthy for me? It doesn't seem that I think about him often, but perhaps my unconsious does. I really believe he will have to show me he has changed before I could ever forgive him.
Forseegood and Trish....You both make some excellent points!
Trish, I believe you can forgive the wrongdoing which caused the hurt.....WITHOUT justifying the action. I'm guessing those nasty people have serious issues, or mental disorders which may cause them to be so cold and unfeeling in these situations. It's hard to figure out just what's behind the negative behavior when we are put to the test with someone who's wronged us. I try and just blow things off... but, ohhh, I know how very hard it is though...still working on this life lesson myself....everyday.
Forseegood, you said to forgive in a selfish way...I couldn't agree more! Why let some jerk ruin your day, or your year for that matter? Remember that old saying..."don't let the turkeys get you down?"....ha Lots of truth in that one! : ) Plus, many Holistic Healing advocates claim forgivenss is KEY to healing many chronic diseases. Cancer is a classic example. Toxic thoughts produce toxic cells...
I like to think I'm doing myself and my liver a huge favor when I forgive. : )
Here's a great site with lots of personal stories in regards to this topic. Click on the pics to read individual stories. There's a couple of short films on this site worth watching also.
http://www.theforgivenessproject.com/stories/anne-gallagher
Trish, I believe you can forgive the wrongdoing which caused the hurt.....WITHOUT justifying the action. I'm guessing those nasty people have serious issues, or mental disorders which may cause them to be so cold and unfeeling in these situations. It's hard to figure out just what's behind the negative behavior when we are put to the test with someone who's wronged us. I try and just blow things off... but, ohhh, I know how very hard it is though...still working on this life lesson myself....everyday.
Forseegood, you said to forgive in a selfish way...I couldn't agree more! Why let some jerk ruin your day, or your year for that matter? Remember that old saying..."don't let the turkeys get you down?"....ha Lots of truth in that one! : ) Plus, many Holistic Healing advocates claim forgivenss is KEY to healing many chronic diseases. Cancer is a classic example. Toxic thoughts produce toxic cells...
I like to think I'm doing myself and my liver a huge favor when I forgive. : )
Here's a great site with lots of personal stories in regards to this topic. Click on the pics to read individual stories. There's a couple of short films on this site worth watching also.
http://www.theforgivenessproject.com/stories/anne-gallagher
Great post...I had a friend who did really well in the showbiz....bought a big house in the hills, sports cars, etc etc...then he lost many of his writing contracts; and lost most of his material possessions as a consequence...
Instead of re-couping and regrouping, he just sits and talks about what a-holes all these people were who "did him in", and how he is going to do this and that to them with this phalanx of attorneys he has working on the case, etc - and, of course, he doesn't see his part in any of these proceedings at all.....it's all somebody else's fault...
How can he hope to get past this, without facing up to his part in his own life? How is he supposed to change behaviors, etc that are self-defeating to him, if he won't even acknowledge that something's not working within himself?
He mostly nurses his resentments against all these "people" and stays stuck in a bad place...as intelligent and creative as this guy is, and he's off the charts...in terms of his "emotional intelligence" and behavior, he reminds me of a small child....
He's just wasting whatever left of his life, and I hope that he can get past this, but I guess he's getting some kind of pay-off...punishing himself - maybe he deep down feels he didn't deserve all he had, or doesn't want to try anymore....whatever...
I finally had to let go of my friendship with him, as his resentment, etc, was so unpleasant to be around...One thing he did for me though....sometimes when I feel sorry for myself and fall into a spiral, and bemoan my fate, I think of him, and how I don't ever want to get stuck in that kind of negativity...and he has perfect health too, but isn't grateful for much...Being grateful probably can't fit into his vocabulary with so much resentment around...and I find being grateful for what I do have is lifesaving for me...
he doesn't realize it, but I've profited by his example...and I send him healing vibes when I can...hope he gets them...
Instead of re-couping and regrouping, he just sits and talks about what a-holes all these people were who "did him in", and how he is going to do this and that to them with this phalanx of attorneys he has working on the case, etc - and, of course, he doesn't see his part in any of these proceedings at all.....it's all somebody else's fault...
How can he hope to get past this, without facing up to his part in his own life? How is he supposed to change behaviors, etc that are self-defeating to him, if he won't even acknowledge that something's not working within himself?
He mostly nurses his resentments against all these "people" and stays stuck in a bad place...as intelligent and creative as this guy is, and he's off the charts...in terms of his "emotional intelligence" and behavior, he reminds me of a small child....
He's just wasting whatever left of his life, and I hope that he can get past this, but I guess he's getting some kind of pay-off...punishing himself - maybe he deep down feels he didn't deserve all he had, or doesn't want to try anymore....whatever...
I finally had to let go of my friendship with him, as his resentment, etc, was so unpleasant to be around...One thing he did for me though....sometimes when I feel sorry for myself and fall into a spiral, and bemoan my fate, I think of him, and how I don't ever want to get stuck in that kind of negativity...and he has perfect health too, but isn't grateful for much...Being grateful probably can't fit into his vocabulary with so much resentment around...and I find being grateful for what I do have is lifesaving for me...
he doesn't realize it, but I've profited by his example...and I send him healing vibes when I can...hope he gets them...
This topic is near to my heart as I've had to deal with this my whole life...had parents who walked away from me when I was five, first my mom and then my dad...then raised by grandparents who meant well but never made me feel loved a day in my life and have continued to experience situations where I must grapple with this forgiveness concept to be able to move forward and to be able to be well with my soul.
I looked up the word "forgive" in Dictionary.com because it seems there are always different meanings applied to that word by different people and I figured that was a good place to start. The results were interesting and actually shed some light on why people approach this from different angles...there were multiple meanings for the word "forgive" and all were applicable. Which applies to your situation, only you will know.
Please grant me a little latitude here while I quote:
verb (used with object) 1. to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.); absolve.
2. to give up all claim on account of; remit (a debt, obligation, etc.).
3. to grant pardon to (a person).
4. to cease to feel resentment against: to forgive one's enemies.
5. to cancel an indebtedness or liability of: to forgive the interest owed on a loan.
–verb (used without object) 6. to pardon an offense or an offender.
Synonyms: These verbs mean to refrain from imposing punishment on an offender or demanding satisfaction for an offense. The first three can be used as conventional ways of offering apology. More strictly, to forgive is to grant pardon without harboring resentment: "Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes they forgive them" (Oscar Wilde).
Pardon more strongly implies release from the liability for or penalty entailed by an offense: After the revolution all political prisoners were pardoned.
To excuse is to pass over a mistake or fault without demanding punishment or redress: "There are some acts of injustice which no national interest can excuse" (J.A. Froude).
To condone is to overlook an offense, usually a serious one, and often suggests tacit forgiveness: Failure to protest the policy may imply a willingness to condone it.
End of quote.
I think there are various levels of forgiveness and what level the person is entitled to depends on the damage done, their level of remorse and their likelihood to re-offend. I would suggest that in all cases, it's important to work towards ceasing to feel resentment. That just festers and poisons our spirit and, as Forseegood suggests, rents out space in our hearts and minds that is not productive and that this person ultimately doesn't deserve to have. However, this is a process and you have to work through this. I spent the holiday "festering" over someone who has hurt me recently and as the holiday progresses, I finally begin to heal and to put it into perspective. Too bad that some of my energy went in this direction however I wouldn't have been able to move forward successfully otherwise. And when I next have to deal with this person, I'll do it in a way that fits the situation much more. I'll give him room to show remorse, to change behaviour .. and if none of that happens, I'll absolve him of any further obligation towards me...however I won't have anything to do with him either. No resentment but no further effort on my part either. That would be doing damage to myself if I did and that is not forgiveness but misguided application of the concept.
I personally do not think every person deserves forgiveness on all these levels. Sometimes forgiveness has to come with conditions based on the level of damage done, the level of their remorse and the willingness/ability for them to change their behaviour. It is not right to forgive someone only to allow them to hurt yourself or others again. That is not forgiveness. That is, again, a misguided application of the concept. I know a person who I forgave three times. All three times he came back to hurt me, each time doing more damage than the time before. This last time was devastating. I am working on not feeling resentment towards him which is hard as he has shown no remorse whatsoever and the damage was extensive. I'll work through the other layers of forgiveness over time, however I'll not be able to let him back into my life unless he shows true remorse and evidence of changed behaviour. And even at that....it is risky to take a chance on him ever again. I owe it to my children and myself to not allow him to steal my energy away from those who truly deserve to have it directed towards them...and one of those people is my own self.
And finally, there are those who, by virtue of their unwillingness to stop the damage and lack of any remorse for the damage done are not WORTHY of forgiveness because they are still in the act. There are those times when forgiveness itself would be a sin against the persons who have been hurt. There are those who have not hurt me but who have hurt those I love and for their sake, no grace is extended because they continue to do their damage. And until that stops..no forgiveness is possible. I can control my emotions so that they don't poison my soul but I feel no obligation to extend forgiveness to everyone. Our justice system indicates this. We expect redress in certain circumstances. We incarcerate and demand that punishment be applied. This is for the victim AND the offender. We're setting a standard that says this is the level of civilization we demand in our society and beyond this, we require a penalty... or they will keep hurting the victim and others and forgiveness is sometimes withheld until the actions of the offender warrant it. Once the debt is paid, then forgiveness at various levels can be applied. At what level, is an entirely situational thing. And at what level for one personally is for each person to wrestle within your own soul.
And for some people...the only thing we can do is avoid seeking revenge. That is all that is required. Forgiveness is not required in every situation and that is my own personal viewpoint.
That's my limited take on it. This is an expansive topic.
I looked up the word "forgive" in Dictionary.com because it seems there are always different meanings applied to that word by different people and I figured that was a good place to start. The results were interesting and actually shed some light on why people approach this from different angles...there were multiple meanings for the word "forgive" and all were applicable. Which applies to your situation, only you will know.
Please grant me a little latitude here while I quote:
verb (used with object) 1. to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.); absolve.
2. to give up all claim on account of; remit (a debt, obligation, etc.).
3. to grant pardon to (a person).
4. to cease to feel resentment against: to forgive one's enemies.
5. to cancel an indebtedness or liability of: to forgive the interest owed on a loan.
–verb (used without object) 6. to pardon an offense or an offender.
Synonyms: These verbs mean to refrain from imposing punishment on an offender or demanding satisfaction for an offense. The first three can be used as conventional ways of offering apology. More strictly, to forgive is to grant pardon without harboring resentment: "Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes they forgive them" (Oscar Wilde).
Pardon more strongly implies release from the liability for or penalty entailed by an offense: After the revolution all political prisoners were pardoned.
To excuse is to pass over a mistake or fault without demanding punishment or redress: "There are some acts of injustice which no national interest can excuse" (J.A. Froude).
To condone is to overlook an offense, usually a serious one, and often suggests tacit forgiveness: Failure to protest the policy may imply a willingness to condone it.
End of quote.
I think there are various levels of forgiveness and what level the person is entitled to depends on the damage done, their level of remorse and their likelihood to re-offend. I would suggest that in all cases, it's important to work towards ceasing to feel resentment. That just festers and poisons our spirit and, as Forseegood suggests, rents out space in our hearts and minds that is not productive and that this person ultimately doesn't deserve to have. However, this is a process and you have to work through this. I spent the holiday "festering" over someone who has hurt me recently and as the holiday progresses, I finally begin to heal and to put it into perspective. Too bad that some of my energy went in this direction however I wouldn't have been able to move forward successfully otherwise. And when I next have to deal with this person, I'll do it in a way that fits the situation much more. I'll give him room to show remorse, to change behaviour .. and if none of that happens, I'll absolve him of any further obligation towards me...however I won't have anything to do with him either. No resentment but no further effort on my part either. That would be doing damage to myself if I did and that is not forgiveness but misguided application of the concept.
I personally do not think every person deserves forgiveness on all these levels. Sometimes forgiveness has to come with conditions based on the level of damage done, the level of their remorse and the willingness/ability for them to change their behaviour. It is not right to forgive someone only to allow them to hurt yourself or others again. That is not forgiveness. That is, again, a misguided application of the concept. I know a person who I forgave three times. All three times he came back to hurt me, each time doing more damage than the time before. This last time was devastating. I am working on not feeling resentment towards him which is hard as he has shown no remorse whatsoever and the damage was extensive. I'll work through the other layers of forgiveness over time, however I'll not be able to let him back into my life unless he shows true remorse and evidence of changed behaviour. And even at that....it is risky to take a chance on him ever again. I owe it to my children and myself to not allow him to steal my energy away from those who truly deserve to have it directed towards them...and one of those people is my own self.
And finally, there are those who, by virtue of their unwillingness to stop the damage and lack of any remorse for the damage done are not WORTHY of forgiveness because they are still in the act. There are those times when forgiveness itself would be a sin against the persons who have been hurt. There are those who have not hurt me but who have hurt those I love and for their sake, no grace is extended because they continue to do their damage. And until that stops..no forgiveness is possible. I can control my emotions so that they don't poison my soul but I feel no obligation to extend forgiveness to everyone. Our justice system indicates this. We expect redress in certain circumstances. We incarcerate and demand that punishment be applied. This is for the victim AND the offender. We're setting a standard that says this is the level of civilization we demand in our society and beyond this, we require a penalty... or they will keep hurting the victim and others and forgiveness is sometimes withheld until the actions of the offender warrant it. Once the debt is paid, then forgiveness at various levels can be applied. At what level, is an entirely situational thing. And at what level for one personally is for each person to wrestle within your own soul.
And for some people...the only thing we can do is avoid seeking revenge. That is all that is required. Forgiveness is not required in every situation and that is my own personal viewpoint.
That's my limited take on it. This is an expansive topic.
I think forgiveness can be a few things, some people want to forgive and forget, and keep on dealing with people who are toxic to them, to their disadvantage...be a "doormat"- if you will....but i don't think that is what Ginger was talking about, necessarily...
...when I forgive someone, it's usually for myself, it's a selfish thing in a way...there have been people in my life who really "did me wrong"...for lack of a better expression....
but if I sit here and stew over what they did to me, and how I'm gonna get back at them, etc etc...then I just waste my own time harboring a lot of bad energy...while that person is off enjoying their life, or whatever they are doing/ probably not thinking of me in the same way that I am thinking of them, lol...probably not thinking of me at all.....
I'm letting them "rent" space in my head, and they aren't paying me anything for it..lol.
But if I "forgive" whatever they did to me.(an exercise for myself)....then I let go of those emotions, that aren't doing me any good..this is a large part of my meditations...
.that doesn't mean that I HAVE to have anything to do with them, or personally forgive them, nothing like that...they might be toxic to me and I really shouldn't have them in my life, if that's the case....maybe in another case I CAN let them have another chance to be in my life...gotta judge that on a case by case basis...
but what I need to do, for myself, is forgive them in my own head, so I don't need to suffer all the toxic emotions of hating and resenting someone...whether I decide to have them in my life any more, or not...
I *think* that's what she was talking about...nothing can make you more nauseous and feeling worse then sitting around nursing resentments and dislikes, get away from people who are toxic, but don't give them the power to pee on your parade all the time...
feel much better in my life since I have forgiven the stinkers in my life...and it freed me up to see that sometimes, it wasn't ALL their fault:) but I'm a work in progress like anyone else, and sometimes I do fall into this trap like anybody else...
...when I forgive someone, it's usually for myself, it's a selfish thing in a way...there have been people in my life who really "did me wrong"...for lack of a better expression....
but if I sit here and stew over what they did to me, and how I'm gonna get back at them, etc etc...then I just waste my own time harboring a lot of bad energy...while that person is off enjoying their life, or whatever they are doing/ probably not thinking of me in the same way that I am thinking of them, lol...probably not thinking of me at all.....
I'm letting them "rent" space in my head, and they aren't paying me anything for it..lol.
But if I "forgive" whatever they did to me.(an exercise for myself)....then I let go of those emotions, that aren't doing me any good..this is a large part of my meditations...
.that doesn't mean that I HAVE to have anything to do with them, or personally forgive them, nothing like that...they might be toxic to me and I really shouldn't have them in my life, if that's the case....maybe in another case I CAN let them have another chance to be in my life...gotta judge that on a case by case basis...
but what I need to do, for myself, is forgive them in my own head, so I don't need to suffer all the toxic emotions of hating and resenting someone...whether I decide to have them in my life any more, or not...
I *think* that's what she was talking about...nothing can make you more nauseous and feeling worse then sitting around nursing resentments and dislikes, get away from people who are toxic, but don't give them the power to pee on your parade all the time...
feel much better in my life since I have forgiven the stinkers in my life...and it freed me up to see that sometimes, it wasn't ALL their fault:) but I'm a work in progress like anyone else, and sometimes I do fall into this trap like anybody else...
You are good, never preached to me when we have talked here or on the phone. I know your beliefs, I have mine and we don't need to judge others for theirs. Thanks for that!
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I thank you too for accepting me and not judging me. What mike said about people who admit that their behavior was wrong and commit to change is EXACTLY what God speaks of "repentence" means to "turn and walk the other way,,,or to have a change of heart." Your brother has done neither. He is still walking in the same direction- hasn't turned from what he has been doing. Mike explained it better. But thats the jist. So many people say "I repent", but never really turn and walk from what their wrong was and don't ask me how I know, cause I have been just as guilty as the next person. Sometimes its not easy as we all know.
The bible also says "IF it possible live with all men." Notice the word "if," so God knows there are some that we have to avoid and just as Mike said if you can rid yourself of the bitterness, do so. Man,, Mikes preaching up a storm. I'm teasing him, but actually he's right. I've heard many a sermon that started out with almost word for word of what he just said.
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I thank you too for accepting me and not judging me. What mike said about people who admit that their behavior was wrong and commit to change is EXACTLY what God speaks of "repentence" means to "turn and walk the other way,,,or to have a change of heart." Your brother has done neither. He is still walking in the same direction- hasn't turned from what he has been doing. Mike explained it better. But thats the jist. So many people say "I repent", but never really turn and walk from what their wrong was and don't ask me how I know, cause I have been just as guilty as the next person. Sometimes its not easy as we all know.
The bible also says "IF it possible live with all men." Notice the word "if," so God knows there are some that we have to avoid and just as Mike said if you can rid yourself of the bitterness, do so. Man,, Mikes preaching up a storm. I'm teasing him, but actually he's right. I've heard many a sermon that started out with almost word for word of what he just said.
I don't think true forgiveness is appropriate for your Brother. If you can rid yourself of the type of bitterness that can actually be physically and mentally unhealthy I think that would be a good thing. More than that is unwarranted and may very well be unhealthy. I reserve true forgiveness for those who admit their behavior was wrong and commit to change and become better. But, what do I really know about it? Mike
Yep, it is pretty awful to be using religion to hide behind while doing awful things. He thinks he is so much better than everyone else. I just won't speak to him anymore. To me he is not my brother.
You are good, never preached to me when we have talked here or on the phone. I know your beliefs, I have mine and we don't need to judge others for theirs. Thanks for that!
Love you sweetie!
Linda
You are good, never preached to me when we have talked here or on the phone. I know your beliefs, I have mine and we don't need to judge others for theirs. Thanks for that!
Love you sweetie!
Linda
It gets me nuts when I see or hear about some of these places that abuse these poor dogs. I really believe the laws should be very tough. Long prison terms. To be honest, my real feeling is that they should shoot anyone who abuses an animal. They don't deserve to live as far as I am concerned. I know that sounds a little hard, but people that abuse kids or animals don't deserve to live IMO.
I walked up to a couple of teens a few weeks ago who were running and then stopping, then running, stopping etc with a tiny puppy that was probably no older than 8 weeks old. This dog was going to die if they continued. It was dragging like a stuffed dog. I gave them such a lecture - nicely but I would have loved to go talk to there parents who should at least teach these kids that this puppy is like a baby and you don't race the streets pulling it. Plus the fact it couldn't have been finished with all its puppy shots yet and would be at risk for getting parvo.
Christmas time is the worst too. God only knows how many little kids got puppies for Christmas. Thats a scary thought. Ears being pulled cause mothers are not watching their kids. This one shelter that comes to a local pet supply store will not adopt out to anyone whose kids are under 9 years old. I like these people. The lady that runs it is a tough cookie and you really have to be that way. She sends someone to the persons house before she adopts out.
I walked up to a couple of teens a few weeks ago who were running and then stopping, then running, stopping etc with a tiny puppy that was probably no older than 8 weeks old. This dog was going to die if they continued. It was dragging like a stuffed dog. I gave them such a lecture - nicely but I would have loved to go talk to there parents who should at least teach these kids that this puppy is like a baby and you don't race the streets pulling it. Plus the fact it couldn't have been finished with all its puppy shots yet and would be at risk for getting parvo.
Christmas time is the worst too. God only knows how many little kids got puppies for Christmas. Thats a scary thought. Ears being pulled cause mothers are not watching their kids. This one shelter that comes to a local pet supply store will not adopt out to anyone whose kids are under 9 years old. I like these people. The lady that runs it is a tough cookie and you really have to be that way. She sends someone to the persons house before she adopts out.
Not only my dad but mother too has my brother taken advantage of. What really bugs me is that he claims to be an evangelical christian. How can you claim to be one and do this to a parent, let alone anyone else. He is a user and no claim to be religious is going to convince me he is not evil.
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I understand what you are saying. Just becasue someone claims to be something (such as evangelical Christian) doesn't always mean they are truly a representative of what that is supposed to stand for. They can be a fake or possibly God hasn't changed the person that they are as yet cause that takes time, willingness to want to change, seeing your faults and lining your self up to what God's Word says who we are to be. All this takes time and some just join a church with no intent to follow the teaching but have other motives. If you read what the bible says about the 'wheat and the tare," you will see more of what I am saying.
Just as you can have a business and send out people that are supposed to be representatives of you and your beliefs,,,same goes with any religion.....some take the title of what religion they belong to, don't adhere to any of its teachings, yet claim they are a part of it. Who gets the bad name - unfortuantely the religion when in fact this persons behavoir may be of no reflection of what this particular religion is.
I remember when I first got saved. I told my entire family they were going to hell if they didn't do this that or the other thing. I think I may have come on a bit too heavy. LOL But in time I pulled back, after I drove everyone nuts first though. LOL And now some have followed and found what they were looking for and others, I don't bother anymore.We hang together but I don't force anything on them. I see how annoying that can be and I try to be aware of that at all times. They know where I am coming from and if they ask me a question they know the answer I will give and I keep it that way. I don't force feed anymore. To each his own. My husband doesn't come to church with me. He knows I would like that if he did, but I don't force him to do what he doesn't want to do. It has to be his decision and its a very personal decision for anyone. If he asks me where do I think hes going when he dies. I'll tell him an answer he may not want to hear, but I'm not going to change my belief to make everyone happy, I just won't continually force it. I layed it out for him and now I shake the dust from my shoes. I can't stress over it anymore.
Hang in there sweety. It sounds like you have had alot to deal with for quite some time. You are a strong woman and will get through it all. Keep in touch.
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I understand what you are saying. Just becasue someone claims to be something (such as evangelical Christian) doesn't always mean they are truly a representative of what that is supposed to stand for. They can be a fake or possibly God hasn't changed the person that they are as yet cause that takes time, willingness to want to change, seeing your faults and lining your self up to what God's Word says who we are to be. All this takes time and some just join a church with no intent to follow the teaching but have other motives. If you read what the bible says about the 'wheat and the tare," you will see more of what I am saying.
Just as you can have a business and send out people that are supposed to be representatives of you and your beliefs,,,same goes with any religion.....some take the title of what religion they belong to, don't adhere to any of its teachings, yet claim they are a part of it. Who gets the bad name - unfortuantely the religion when in fact this persons behavoir may be of no reflection of what this particular religion is.
I remember when I first got saved. I told my entire family they were going to hell if they didn't do this that or the other thing. I think I may have come on a bit too heavy. LOL But in time I pulled back, after I drove everyone nuts first though. LOL And now some have followed and found what they were looking for and others, I don't bother anymore.We hang together but I don't force anything on them. I see how annoying that can be and I try to be aware of that at all times. They know where I am coming from and if they ask me a question they know the answer I will give and I keep it that way. I don't force feed anymore. To each his own. My husband doesn't come to church with me. He knows I would like that if he did, but I don't force him to do what he doesn't want to do. It has to be his decision and its a very personal decision for anyone. If he asks me where do I think hes going when he dies. I'll tell him an answer he may not want to hear, but I'm not going to change my belief to make everyone happy, I just won't continually force it. I layed it out for him and now I shake the dust from my shoes. I can't stress over it anymore.
Hang in there sweety. It sounds like you have had alot to deal with for quite some time. You are a strong woman and will get through it all. Keep in touch.
I'm cool. Went to friends big dinner, tofu turkey yada yada. Daughter text messaged me! woo hoo!
Yep, I am happily living with my spouse, at least most days! LOL Don't feel sorry for me. I am not on tx, but am suffering from post tx autoimmune diseases now. not fun. No spouse SH? Ahhh, there is good and bad with a spouse, but I found a good one this time. Merry, Merry! Hope you aren't alone today!
What? You're happily living with a spouse? Sheez, you're doing better than most people around here. And I was feeling sorry for you. Back to me, now!
Forsee; Thanks sweetie, I am going to enjoy my day and the family that will be here. I just have crossed that turkey off my list for good. I do deserve a break and hope that I can make it to grad school in Jan. My meds while giving me brain fog like tx, are helping the pain a lot. Last night I was upset about my oldest son not calling (haven't seen him in 3 yrs.) I had to tell myself that I am going to give myself a break and take of what I have to do. It hurts but I can't let this stuff ruin my life. I have a wonderful husband and am very happy. Merry HO HO!
so sorry youre having these troubles... sometimes the holidays can magnify personal problems for some reason, maybe the high expectations of having to be happy? dunno...I just hope that you can let it go for yourself for awhile...and have some much needed peace for yourself...you've been through so much, you deserve a break, even if you have to give yourself one...just my take...talk soon....
Sorry to sound like I am in a pity pot. We have much more to deal with than stories as mine. I plan on moving on and going to grad school and forgetting this sorry mess of things. Sorry to have even posted all this stuff. It's Christmas Eve and I wish the best for all and whatever is going on in your lives that isn't cool or right, move on and get your lives together. We have to take care of ourselves and each other. That's what we do here!
Hugs to all!
Linda
Hugs to all!
Linda
Not only my dad but mother too has my brother taken advantage of. What really bugs me is that he claims to be an evangelical christian. How can you claim to be one and do this to a parent, let alone anyone else. He is a user and no claim to be religious is going to convince me he is not evil. Sorry for the vent...had a tough Christmas Eve. My son, out of prison, also claiming to be evangelical christian, blames me for his whole life and won't call me or let me see the grandkids. I offered my house to bail him out besides so much more as a child. I am really hurt and maybe need to move on and get myself together?
I think I'm guilty of not giving men a break as well sometimes, even if it's only in my head, and I have to check myself...I've been into animal rescue for a long time, and I sometimes wonder why there aren't more men involved in rescuing, and I have held grudges about it...just seems like there are soooo many women involved in this...and a lot of men are mistreating animals...blah, blah blah...
then I saw this documentary on cable called Dealing Dogs...it was about these breeders/kennels that are mistreating dogs on a massive scale..they focused on one in the South, the guy who ran this was absolutely ruthless with hundreds and hundreds of dogs...dogs were freezing to death nightly...they were made to go in a vat of painful chemicals in freezing weather, and the dogs would go into shock because of the freezing temps, so they couldn't walk back to the kennels, they had to be dragged...they were sprayed every day with this cold water, splashing what little food they had, I could go on and on and on...Anyway, the guy who owned the kennel was hip to the fact that animal rights orgs would be after him, for killing dogs on such a mass scale...and he bought dogs that were stolen as family pets, knowingly....
So these guys in this one animal rights org would volunteer to work in these hellish places...watching and participating in the most horrible acts, all to get in good graces with these creeps, and these guys loved dogs, that's why they volunteered to do this...they knew, full well...that if these guys that worked at these kennels were to catch on that the guy worked for a rescue org?
that he could be easily killed by these people...there were guns there, etc...and yet these guys went undercover to do this for nothing, just to save some dogs and put these creeps in jail...all these guys were doing this, risking their lives to save these dogs some misery...And they got this creep too with the states attorney, it took them too long, but they did, the guy was fined heavily and had to do jail time....
it really made me ashamed to think these thoughts, and showed how ignorant I can be in making big generalizations...so many men are wonderful, kind caring people...
then I saw this documentary on cable called Dealing Dogs...it was about these breeders/kennels that are mistreating dogs on a massive scale..they focused on one in the South, the guy who ran this was absolutely ruthless with hundreds and hundreds of dogs...dogs were freezing to death nightly...they were made to go in a vat of painful chemicals in freezing weather, and the dogs would go into shock because of the freezing temps, so they couldn't walk back to the kennels, they had to be dragged...they were sprayed every day with this cold water, splashing what little food they had, I could go on and on and on...Anyway, the guy who owned the kennel was hip to the fact that animal rights orgs would be after him, for killing dogs on such a mass scale...and he bought dogs that were stolen as family pets, knowingly....
So these guys in this one animal rights org would volunteer to work in these hellish places...watching and participating in the most horrible acts, all to get in good graces with these creeps, and these guys loved dogs, that's why they volunteered to do this...they knew, full well...that if these guys that worked at these kennels were to catch on that the guy worked for a rescue org?
that he could be easily killed by these people...there were guns there, etc...and yet these guys went undercover to do this for nothing, just to save some dogs and put these creeps in jail...all these guys were doing this, risking their lives to save these dogs some misery...And they got this creep too with the states attorney, it took them too long, but they did, the guy was fined heavily and had to do jail time....
it really made me ashamed to think these thoughts, and showed how ignorant I can be in making big generalizations...so many men are wonderful, kind caring people...
I can understand why you feel the way you do about your brother. He continually takes advantage of people, but he'll reap what he has sown. Its too bad though that your father didn't see what he was doing, but I guess a parent is the last to see when it comes to their children having a problem.
It will all catch up to your brother one day. I don't understand how people can be like that to a parent. I just never understood that.
It will all catch up to your brother one day. I don't understand how people can be like that to a parent. I just never understood that.
I have the best husband now. I too tell him to leave me alone when I am angry. Who wants to get in a fight? We always work it out and don't stay mad, but sometimes it takes awhile. He still blames everything on Brian Fog. lol
The person I can't forgive is my brother. He took over my dad's business and hid the money and ran it into the ground. The poor many died eating campbells soup when he should have lived off of the lifelong great business he built. He also did the same to his mother in law and now is doing this to my mother. She had a nice nest egg from her husband who died. This jerk moved in and spent every penny. Still is spending her SS. She won't kick him out. I had to pay for her bankruptcy. How do you forgive someone who preys on others like this. I just can't forgive him.
The person I can't forgive is my brother. He took over my dad's business and hid the money and ran it into the ground. The poor many died eating campbells soup when he should have lived off of the lifelong great business he built. He also did the same to his mother in law and now is doing this to my mother. She had a nice nest egg from her husband who died. This jerk moved in and spent every penny. Still is spending her SS. She won't kick him out. I had to pay for her bankruptcy. How do you forgive someone who preys on others like this. I just can't forgive him.
As you say Myown, it not for the weak. I guess I am weak with some of my grudges and do hope to overcome them
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Yeah ya know what..I think a lie has been sold to us as far as men go. Alot of times- or at least when we were younger, we would think a guy was weak if he "gave in" and said, hey there has been silence too long between us (boyfriends, husbands etc),,,the macho type in our head was the one who ignored and we had to go running back - if we did at all. But my husband really has shown me something as far as men go. My husband and I really don't stay mad at each other and I don't take credit for that. First of all we get along well, but at times when we do have arguments he always will let a bit of time pass - no longer than a few hours and then say something like - Hey don't even tell me you're still mad at me or hey maniac or hey nutty LOL come here a minute and he'll always say its not worth it, lets not be mad. That truly gets to me everytime. He has no ego whatsoever and thats what I love about him. Doesn't worry about me rejecting him and saying leave me alone - cause then he just gives me more time and we make up. He is so cool. I guess as females we like to feel they are they hunters and they are supposed to pursue us and not us them? Who knows, but he always makes me feel very much loved by his way of letting nothing little or big get in the way of our relationship. Not to say its the perfect relationship - who knows he can come home tonight and tell me he has had a chick on the side for the last 10 years. Nothing in life surprises me, but if he is who he really is and I think he is - he's an alright guy. He's cool.
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Yeah ya know what..I think a lie has been sold to us as far as men go. Alot of times- or at least when we were younger, we would think a guy was weak if he "gave in" and said, hey there has been silence too long between us (boyfriends, husbands etc),,,the macho type in our head was the one who ignored and we had to go running back - if we did at all. But my husband really has shown me something as far as men go. My husband and I really don't stay mad at each other and I don't take credit for that. First of all we get along well, but at times when we do have arguments he always will let a bit of time pass - no longer than a few hours and then say something like - Hey don't even tell me you're still mad at me or hey maniac or hey nutty LOL come here a minute and he'll always say its not worth it, lets not be mad. That truly gets to me everytime. He has no ego whatsoever and thats what I love about him. Doesn't worry about me rejecting him and saying leave me alone - cause then he just gives me more time and we make up. He is so cool. I guess as females we like to feel they are they hunters and they are supposed to pursue us and not us them? Who knows, but he always makes me feel very much loved by his way of letting nothing little or big get in the way of our relationship. Not to say its the perfect relationship - who knows he can come home tonight and tell me he has had a chick on the side for the last 10 years. Nothing in life surprises me, but if he is who he really is and I think he is - he's an alright guy. He's cool.
Thanks for the thoughtful message. As you say Myown, it not for the weak. I guess I am weak with some of my grudges and do hope to overcome them. Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all!
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