Aa
a little help on med/psych
I truly hate to out myself on this, esp. with all that's going on with the board right now (lots of anxiety and bad situations for folks) but I've always valued my mind and i need to know if this has happened to others as well.
Last week I had a sharp turn downward in my state of mind and some depressive symptoms, i.e., paranoia, self recrimination and etc. I spoke with my doc and we went from 10 to 20 of Prozac on last Friday. It's a late presentation, usually depressive symptoms start in first 12 weeks and i'm almost at week 24. I'm also hyperthyroid as of recent testing and I wonder if this adds to it.
This week it's going in the opposite direction, racing thoughts, too many for my taste, not necessarily negative, just kind of weird thinking.
I'm also a psychotherapist so I quickly recognize the thoughts as not my usual pattern but can't seem to control them with the usual cognitive behavioral stuff I do when I need to.
I've read a lot about the effect of interferons/combo treatment on the psyche but i thought i could do better at handling this. I don't have a history of psychiatric disorder, substance use, etc.
I don't know whether i should call my doc again regarding this. Please tell me if anyone else has had these types of symptoms; it is so atypical for me that I don't know what to make of it. but it is somewhat scary.
Deb
Last week I had a sharp turn downward in my state of mind and some depressive symptoms, i.e., paranoia, self recrimination and etc. I spoke with my doc and we went from 10 to 20 of Prozac on last Friday. It's a late presentation, usually depressive symptoms start in first 12 weeks and i'm almost at week 24. I'm also hyperthyroid as of recent testing and I wonder if this adds to it.
This week it's going in the opposite direction, racing thoughts, too many for my taste, not necessarily negative, just kind of weird thinking.
I'm also a psychotherapist so I quickly recognize the thoughts as not my usual pattern but can't seem to control them with the usual cognitive behavioral stuff I do when I need to.
I've read a lot about the effect of interferons/combo treatment on the psyche but i thought i could do better at handling this. I don't have a history of psychiatric disorder, substance use, etc.
I don't know whether i should call my doc again regarding this. Please tell me if anyone else has had these types of symptoms; it is so atypical for me that I don't know what to make of it. but it is somewhat scary.
Deb
I have this problem is spades! I have become extremely impulsive and get very angry at the drop of a hat. I have the same paranoid thoughts with a lot of self recrimination.
I found that my recent trip to Maine where I could spend time in a low stress environment (for me) was a great help. The lack of external stress made a huge difference for me and I calmed down more than I did taking anti depressants . Is there any external stress that is new in your life that coincides with the start of these symptoms?
It is a serious problem for me. I have damaged relationships with people I care about and pick on my wife who is the most wonderful person in my life. Luckily for me, she knows how much I love her and can forgive me.
I found that my recent trip to Maine where I could spend time in a low stress environment (for me) was a great help. The lack of external stress made a huge difference for me and I calmed down more than I did taking anti depressants . Is there any external stress that is new in your life that coincides with the start of these symptoms?
It is a serious problem for me. I have damaged relationships with people I care about and pick on my wife who is the most wonderful person in my life. Luckily for me, she knows how much I love her and can forgive me.
Your answer already helps.....so as much as i hate that you have this, I'm sort of relieved that i am not alone.
I am not sure that I could manage a trip like that; I'm pretty tired. but i will mention it to my husband.
Nothing new on the external stress thing. It seems to me that this is all mitigated by the ifn/riba, and possible recent changes in my hormones, i.e., now HYPERthyroid after many years of being HYPO. I have also had a "cold" for the last ten days or so.
I just know came to the forefront last week.
xo
deb
I am not sure that I could manage a trip like that; I'm pretty tired. but i will mention it to my husband.
Nothing new on the external stress thing. It seems to me that this is all mitigated by the ifn/riba, and possible recent changes in my hormones, i.e., now HYPERthyroid after many years of being HYPO. I have also had a "cold" for the last ten days or so.
I just know came to the forefront last week.
xo
deb
Get off the Prozac and find some other AD. It is not mixing well with the present meds. Do you remember one of my posts about getting knocked off the surf board and banging head and floating out to sea? You asked if I was ok, or another post about flying at 32k feet then hitting an air pocket and dropping. I just could not express what was happening at the time so others could understand because I didn’t myself. Then the thyroid test answered many questions I had. Maybe you need to up the thyroid meds? Might not help, but thought I would chime in.
jasper
jasper
Were you taking Prozac prior to treating, or did you take it in anticipation of treatment?
If the latter, some of what you describe could be from the Prozac itself, especially when you doubled the dose. Yes, interferon is known to cause psychological issues, but so can some of the anti-depressive drugs. I'd tried to go on ADs a couple of times during treatment, but they just made me anxious and I had to stop.
If the former -- you used Prozac prior to treatment -- maybe you need to add a second drug to the mix to bring down the racing thoughts. My doctor mentioned a second drug -- forgot which -- when I got anxious from Wellbutrin, but I decided just to go off the Wellbutrin.
Hope you feel better soon,
-- Jim
If the latter, some of what you describe could be from the Prozac itself, especially when you doubled the dose. Yes, interferon is known to cause psychological issues, but so can some of the anti-depressive drugs. I'd tried to go on ADs a couple of times during treatment, but they just made me anxious and I had to stop.
If the former -- you used Prozac prior to treatment -- maybe you need to add a second drug to the mix to bring down the racing thoughts. My doctor mentioned a second drug -- forgot which -- when I got anxious from Wellbutrin, but I decided just to go off the Wellbutrin.
Hope you feel better soon,
-- Jim
I hope you feel better soon. I agree with what Jim said about Prozac. I found Lexapro better and effexor even better, but the withdrawal from effexor was so brutal that I would not want any one else to go through it. I can't stay on any AD for long as they stop working and make things worse.
I find looking at water so soothing that on this trip, where I could not take walks, all I did was sit on a deck and look at it for long periods of time. Whatever does it for you, be it mountains, water or the desert, give it a try. Even if you sit on the balcony of a hotel room and just look, it can help.
Good luck - I will be thinking of you - Eric
I find looking at water so soothing that on this trip, where I could not take walks, all I did was sit on a deck and look at it for long periods of time. Whatever does it for you, be it mountains, water or the desert, give it a try. Even if you sit on the balcony of a hotel room and just look, it can help.
Good luck - I will be thinking of you - Eric
Even if you sit on the balcony of a hotel room and just look, it can help.
That would be the last thing to tell someone on prozac.
That would be the last thing to tell someone on prozac.
Jim:
Started taking an AD just prior to beginning treatment for prophylaxis, started with Lex and shifted to Prozac for the effect on appetite it has. I've not taken ADs at all until now - 47 years. I guess I didn't think that doubling the dose would have that effect on me when i was on such a baby dose to begin with but I am pretty sure the doctor felt it was important or else he wouldn't have doubled it. That really helps, though, Jim, I didn't even think of that doubling being a problem. As always, you seem to know how to address how my mind works, James. Thanks and I'll keep ya posted. Deb
Jasper:
I remember those conversations with you. I remember thinking you were zooming at that time but wasn't sure if it was upsetting you or not. I guess we know what happened, huh? The only problem with what you said about thyroid is that I'm not HYPO (low) like I used to be, I'm now HYPER and haven't stopped taking synthroid because the doc says stay on it because it might reverse again. So I prolly don't need MORE right now, I prolly need less. But thank you for your "chiming"...I always welcome it from you, Jasper.
I wish we'd talk more about how nuts this **** makes us, if it does. Who I am and how I feel is the most important thing to me, not hair, not fat, not any of that and this is the scariest part for me.
Deb
Started taking an AD just prior to beginning treatment for prophylaxis, started with Lex and shifted to Prozac for the effect on appetite it has. I've not taken ADs at all until now - 47 years. I guess I didn't think that doubling the dose would have that effect on me when i was on such a baby dose to begin with but I am pretty sure the doctor felt it was important or else he wouldn't have doubled it. That really helps, though, Jim, I didn't even think of that doubling being a problem. As always, you seem to know how to address how my mind works, James. Thanks and I'll keep ya posted. Deb
Jasper:
I remember those conversations with you. I remember thinking you were zooming at that time but wasn't sure if it was upsetting you or not. I guess we know what happened, huh? The only problem with what you said about thyroid is that I'm not HYPO (low) like I used to be, I'm now HYPER and haven't stopped taking synthroid because the doc says stay on it because it might reverse again. So I prolly don't need MORE right now, I prolly need less. But thank you for your "chiming"...I always welcome it from you, Jasper.
I wish we'd talk more about how nuts this **** makes us, if it does. Who I am and how I feel is the most important thing to me, not hair, not fat, not any of that and this is the scariest part for me.
Deb
you are such a dear, despite what Jasper says, I 'm not by ANY stretch suicidal.....just...it seems.....a little crazy....middle aged crazy? IFN crazy?
Deb
Deb
LOL.
------------------
Hope all of you on tx just keep hanging in there, because one day it will be over and your mind will return to normal, whatever normal is.
Seemed every time I got in my car I ended up screaming at someone out the window, not to mention how many times I hung up the phone on relatives, friends, etc.
But all that stopped when the meds left my house, so no more screaming in the car, and no more hanging up on the few friends I have left :) Depression after treatment is another story though, so better close that balcony door :)
-- Jim
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Hope all of you on tx just keep hanging in there, because one day it will be over and your mind will return to normal, whatever normal is.
Seemed every time I got in my car I ended up screaming at someone out the window, not to mention how many times I hung up the phone on relatives, friends, etc.
But all that stopped when the meds left my house, so no more screaming in the car, and no more hanging up on the few friends I have left :) Depression after treatment is another story though, so better close that balcony door :)
-- Jim
Hey! Girl - You're soo "cool". -:)) I would never guess from your different posts that you were having these kind of problems. I understand, sort of, where you're coming from. - Having had some minor (compared to now) problems over the years. I do agree with Andiamo - if you can get away for a while, it would be very soothing for the soul. Make a loving pact with your husband that it would be "your time" and he gets all the responsiblities of "taking care of you"'. ie: doing the meals & cleanup, making you 'comfy', going for long 'quiet' walks with you, or just listening quietly even when you don't make a lot of sense (to him), etc.. You've been tx for 6mos. now and you are in deep need of a "time out". Our minds and bodies can only take so much ( eventho' our Father said the He would not give us more than we can handle) and removing ourselves from stressful situations, even for a little while, can do absolute wonders.
As for the meds sx - I agree - Prozac is terribly bad news.
Take care, girl, keep us "updated", and I will keep you in my prayers.
Geri
As for the meds sx - I agree - Prozac is terribly bad news.
Take care, girl, keep us "updated", and I will keep you in my prayers.
Geri
Since you didn't need Prozac prior to treatment, the possibility exists that all the psych symptons you mentioned (on both doses of Prozac) may be caused by the Prozac.
Don't know a lot about ADs, but what research I did suggests that you have to be very flexible making adjustments, like upping the dose, lowering the dose, or changing meds. In your case, since you didn't need it to start with, one adjustment might be just stopping the meds.
At this point, I really wouldn't wait but would call your doctor today to discuss exactly how you're feeling and the idea that it might be Prozac related.
All the best,
-- Jim
Don't know a lot about ADs, but what research I did suggests that you have to be very flexible making adjustments, like upping the dose, lowering the dose, or changing meds. In your case, since you didn't need it to start with, one adjustment might be just stopping the meds.
At this point, I really wouldn't wait but would call your doctor today to discuss exactly how you're feeling and the idea that it might be Prozac related.
All the best,
-- Jim
I called. Going tomorrow. He's going to call a buddy of his to see how to taper off. Sorry I started on them to begin with I think.
Geri:
Well, I WAS a shrink and am good at compartmentalizing so my "nice" posts don't show it. Besides, doing for others sure helps me feel better about life in general, no sh!t. Being on the board is a give and take as far as I'm concerned so I try not to post about me unless it's "something". Thanks for the compliment and your prayers. Everyone here is always in mine as well.
deb
Geri:
Well, I WAS a shrink and am good at compartmentalizing so my "nice" posts don't show it. Besides, doing for others sure helps me feel better about life in general, no sh!t. Being on the board is a give and take as far as I'm concerned so I try not to post about me unless it's "something". Thanks for the compliment and your prayers. Everyone here is always in mine as well.
deb
When the thyroid is off it is really a BIG deal. Just before I started tx, my thyroid went from hypothyroid to hyperthyroid. I had switched to another medication that apparently was an overdose. It is most important to get that thyroid back to normal ASAP. It can cause many of the symptoms you are complaining about. I was bouncing off the walls and drove like a maniac all the way to San Francisco when I was hyperthyroid. I got there 1 1/2 hours early. I couldn't understand why everyone was so slow (it was because I was on FAST FORWARD).
all I know is I have been suffering from anxiety attacks (not so much anymore) for years. I can usually calm myself down cause I've developed enough tools in my arsenal, but if I ever really have a bad one, I'll take an ativan. The anxiety itself seems to make my thoughs go beyond the rational, to the irrational, even though I'm telling myself that I am okay, my subconscious mess takes over, and I end up thinking all kinds of crazy things. When I first would got these years ago, I used to go around and put all the sharp edged things in drawers, like I might lose control or something. It sounds funny now, but it sure isn't when youre going through it. What I find helpful too, is to do some real practical things, to take my thinking into the more logical part of my brain. A grocery list, a cross word puzzle, watching the news on TV.
I've been suffering depression and anxiety for years, and hypnosis tapes really help too. There are good ones really cheap, like 7 dollars a piece, on hypnosisdownloads. dot com. Listening to help with anxiety and obsessional thinking from there have really helped. Perhaps this doesn't apply to your case, but I thought I'd throw a few things out there, that have really helped me out, cause believe me, I can relate. Hope you feel better soon.
I've been suffering depression and anxiety for years, and hypnosis tapes really help too. There are good ones really cheap, like 7 dollars a piece, on hypnosisdownloads. dot com. Listening to help with anxiety and obsessional thinking from there have really helped. Perhaps this doesn't apply to your case, but I thought I'd throw a few things out there, that have really helped me out, cause believe me, I can relate. Hope you feel better soon.
Reminds me of when i first tx'ed in 96 and heard the heater downstairs 'click' to come on and started running thinking it was going to blow up???? Why I thought that I have no idea but this was Inf only tx in those days. I laughed at myself and had a couple other really odd experiences too but please know that 'this too shall pass' you will normalize again and be just fine. I feel the weirdness starting again for me now that I'm 3 mos in and know it will increase with time. I do 5 mg of Lex and stay there religiously and take it the same time ea day and it really does help me balance. I refuse to take even a normal dose due to what I understand SSRI's actually do but know that benefit can be gained if done 'in stride'. Thanks for sharing so much as it makes all of us feel like we're going to be okay again someday. :) Keep telling your patients that too... (likely you're the only one that really knows that one...) thanks again!
Hi Ladies and Gentleman:
Grandma, thanks for the advice; I've called the doc and talked with my liver nurse. We'll also take care of the thyroid again in that appt. I appreciate it.
Forsee: Anything that helps I will try.
FullOHope: Same thing! I had a pain in my back this morning and thought i was going to grow a hump when I looked! I'm not practicing now, I was a forensic therapist years ago. Burnt out on it (capital crimes).
I'll keep everyone posted and thanks for your concern. If it was not so troublesome i wouldn't even mention it.
deb
Grandma, thanks for the advice; I've called the doc and talked with my liver nurse. We'll also take care of the thyroid again in that appt. I appreciate it.
Forsee: Anything that helps I will try.
FullOHope: Same thing! I had a pain in my back this morning and thought i was going to grow a hump when I looked! I'm not practicing now, I was a forensic therapist years ago. Burnt out on it (capital crimes).
I'll keep everyone posted and thanks for your concern. If it was not so troublesome i wouldn't even mention it.
deb
Aw…. Yes! In its rawest sense, it's the old INFRIBAPTSSD is the way I look at it at the present moment. Now, if you can figure that one out, your doing OK!
LOL, sorry...
jasper
LOL, sorry...
jasper
Interferon/Ribaviran Post Traumatic Syndrome Stress Disorder (did I get it?)
:)
Too funny, but worth remembering as whatever it is we will survive and likely be the better for it...
:)
Too funny, but worth remembering as whatever it is we will survive and likely be the better for it...
My man, you are on your way to SVR… I mean that.
Took me an hour to think that one up, and 30 seconds to get it busted, dang.
jasper
Deb, we got your back, be good!
Took me an hour to think that one up, and 30 seconds to get it busted, dang.
jasper
Deb, we got your back, be good!
You seem so far from suicidal, that it never entered my mind to worry about it. Thank you for reassuring me though. When I first read the comment, I did think I might have made a mistake.
I feel better now that I am off effexor. Not normal by any means, but better. I hope the same happens to you.
Today is my 42nd wedding anniversary, so I just got back from taking my wife to dinner. She managed to put up with me for 35 regular years and 7 on interferon!! Now that I am on it again, I spent the evening thinking about all we have been through together and how much stronger we are from the suffering. The good years are fun, but they don't teach you much. the bad years teach you how to enjoy the good years. I am sure you have many good years ahead of you.
I feel better now that I am off effexor. Not normal by any means, but better. I hope the same happens to you.
Today is my 42nd wedding anniversary, so I just got back from taking my wife to dinner. She managed to put up with me for 35 regular years and 7 on interferon!! Now that I am on it again, I spent the evening thinking about all we have been through together and how much stronger we are from the suffering. The good years are fun, but they don't teach you much. the bad years teach you how to enjoy the good years. I am sure you have many good years ahead of you.
I can relate very well to your story. I crashed and burned when I was in my senior year of high school. I dropped out and did 5 years of drugs. I was very lucky; I met my wife and found a great analyst. I was able to get it together and build a good life out of the ashes.
Unfortunately, it left me with HCV which I am still dealing with. But I can't complain. I had an interesting career and I am much stronger from the therapy. I found developing software to be much like meditating. It helped me relax and concentrate on things outside of my own experience.
Now that I am about to beat the dragon, I dream about what I will do with my renewed energy and mental clarity. One thing I can guarantee, I will never waste another minute of my life on any drug that diminishes my awareness of life.
Unfortunately, it left me with HCV which I am still dealing with. But I can't complain. I had an interesting career and I am much stronger from the therapy. I found developing software to be much like meditating. It helped me relax and concentrate on things outside of my own experience.
Now that I am about to beat the dragon, I dream about what I will do with my renewed energy and mental clarity. One thing I can guarantee, I will never waste another minute of my life on any drug that diminishes my awareness of life.
HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!!! A bit late in the day, I know, but 42 years deserves recognition. -:))). You have obviously been blessed with a good soul mate. Hope you have many more wonderful years together.
Geri
Geri
Deb - you'll be ok - Prozac and things like that were awful things for me... They made me feel "ick"... Yawns... paranoid... LOL! I couldn't take them --- they were awful...
However - ABOUT PANIC ATTACKS: after TX - I feel much more ADHD than ever before - scattered... A couple panic attacks - every once in awhile.
I use Lorazepam for massive ones --- maybe once a month - usually right before my period --- I get GROSSLY uncomfortable in my skin... Like I can't sit right... like I can't get comfy... will I blow up... If I push too hard to pass gas - will my intestines fall out... My chest walls feel constricting like I've got a corsette on --- I get itchy all over -- I can't find a comfortable position to lay in --- will my heart get squished if I lay on that side too long... Did I leave the iron on... If I plug something in will the current run up my arm and kill me, do I have boogers hanging out my nose ---- I mean REALLY WEIRD stuff. LOL!
I think they are hormonally related - most of them. The racing thoughts --- the can't get it together. They seem to be aggravated by my menstrual cycle - when it's normal or not - I can usually tell 2 days in advance when I'm going to start --- just by the way I'm feeling in my own skin... Sounds weird... but YOU outed yourself first.... LOL!
And they only last for a little while --- but I bring myself down with Ativan - and then I'm fine for the rest of the month. They didn't happen prior to TX --- but hey --- well - Yanno --- that's just the way life tosses you into the salad mixture. LOL!
It sounds like you're going through something similar - but with the "saddies" the "blues" tossed in.
I've never been a blue kind of person - so maybe that's it.
But heck deb --- in your shoes --- I might just have had quite a few blues attacks. Seriously - I mean you've had some hard core stuff to deal with....
And TXing - certainly doesn't help doodley squat.
Meki
However - ABOUT PANIC ATTACKS: after TX - I feel much more ADHD than ever before - scattered... A couple panic attacks - every once in awhile.
I use Lorazepam for massive ones --- maybe once a month - usually right before my period --- I get GROSSLY uncomfortable in my skin... Like I can't sit right... like I can't get comfy... will I blow up... If I push too hard to pass gas - will my intestines fall out... My chest walls feel constricting like I've got a corsette on --- I get itchy all over -- I can't find a comfortable position to lay in --- will my heart get squished if I lay on that side too long... Did I leave the iron on... If I plug something in will the current run up my arm and kill me, do I have boogers hanging out my nose ---- I mean REALLY WEIRD stuff. LOL!
I think they are hormonally related - most of them. The racing thoughts --- the can't get it together. They seem to be aggravated by my menstrual cycle - when it's normal or not - I can usually tell 2 days in advance when I'm going to start --- just by the way I'm feeling in my own skin... Sounds weird... but YOU outed yourself first.... LOL!
And they only last for a little while --- but I bring myself down with Ativan - and then I'm fine for the rest of the month. They didn't happen prior to TX --- but hey --- well - Yanno --- that's just the way life tosses you into the salad mixture. LOL!
It sounds like you're going through something similar - but with the "saddies" the "blues" tossed in.
I've never been a blue kind of person - so maybe that's it.
But heck deb --- in your shoes --- I might just have had quite a few blues attacks. Seriously - I mean you've had some hard core stuff to deal with....
And TXing - certainly doesn't help doodley squat.
Meki
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