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Could I have developed HSV 2 from erotic massage with underwear on?
Hello
I have recently been diagnosed with HSV 2. I am in total shock and devastated. I know all the literature about how common it is etc etc, but it still doesn't make it any easier. I don't really care for the condition, it's more the stigma that is attached to it.
I have been racking my brains since I found out as I don't know where this has come from. I am now thinking it has come from an erotic massage that I have done. Let me explain:
I often give erotic massages to people looking for this type of service. Within 12 days of working, I gave 3 massages where I would gently grind my body over the guys's body. I want to stress, I always wear underwear whilst I do this. They are naked. I rub my butt checks over their torso, and at some point grind over their groin/crotch area for a few seconds/minutes.
On day 7 of giving the last massage, I broke out in lesions on my butt checks and near my anus. I am now thinking I have contracted HSV2 from one of these massages. I keep reading HSV2 is a 'skin to skin' condition, but I am also confused as my genitals didn't directly come into contact with theirs, and now I'm thinking my butt cheeks were exposed and have got it that way.
What is interesting however is I had this breakout on the Saturday, but the previous Monday I slipped a disc in my back and was in a lot of pain and I had gone from working 60 hours a week, to being laid up in bed practically unable to move. I am now wondering if it's more likely I have had the virus for a long time and due to the injury, and change in my body, I have had this breakout?
Would be grateful to hear any thoughts. I had unprotected sex 6 weeks prior to the breakout.
I have recently been diagnosed with HSV 2. I am in total shock and devastated. I know all the literature about how common it is etc etc, but it still doesn't make it any easier. I don't really care for the condition, it's more the stigma that is attached to it.
I have been racking my brains since I found out as I don't know where this has come from. I am now thinking it has come from an erotic massage that I have done. Let me explain:
I often give erotic massages to people looking for this type of service. Within 12 days of working, I gave 3 massages where I would gently grind my body over the guys's body. I want to stress, I always wear underwear whilst I do this. They are naked. I rub my butt checks over their torso, and at some point grind over their groin/crotch area for a few seconds/minutes.
On day 7 of giving the last massage, I broke out in lesions on my butt checks and near my anus. I am now thinking I have contracted HSV2 from one of these massages. I keep reading HSV2 is a 'skin to skin' condition, but I am also confused as my genitals didn't directly come into contact with theirs, and now I'm thinking my butt cheeks were exposed and have got it that way.
What is interesting however is I had this breakout on the Saturday, but the previous Monday I slipped a disc in my back and was in a lot of pain and I had gone from working 60 hours a week, to being laid up in bed practically unable to move. I am now wondering if it's more likely I have had the virus for a long time and due to the injury, and change in my body, I have had this breakout?
Would be grateful to hear any thoughts. I had unprotected sex 6 weeks prior to the breakout.
COMMUNITY LEADER
So first, how were you diagnosed? Were your sores cultured?
You didn't get this from having a massage with underwear on. It's possible you've had it for awhile and the injury stress caused the outbreak. It could be from the encounter 6 weeks ago, or one 6 years ago - you may never know.
Did you get any medication for it?
I've had hsv2 for 20+ years. Please don't let the stigma get to you. It's really a bunch of crap. I have allergies and migraines that affect my life far more than herpes ever has.
Since you're laid up and have a lot of time on your hands, here's a great resource for you -
https://westoverheights.com/herpes/the-updated-herpes-handbook/
It's the Herpes Handbook, and it's written by Terri Warren, one of the world's leading experts in herpes. It's free, and you can read it on any device.
Ask me anything. I'm an open book. :)
You didn't get this from having a massage with underwear on. It's possible you've had it for awhile and the injury stress caused the outbreak. It could be from the encounter 6 weeks ago, or one 6 years ago - you may never know.
Did you get any medication for it?
I've had hsv2 for 20+ years. Please don't let the stigma get to you. It's really a bunch of crap. I have allergies and migraines that affect my life far more than herpes ever has.
Since you're laid up and have a lot of time on your hands, here's a great resource for you -
https://westoverheights.com/herpes/the-updated-herpes-handbook/
It's the Herpes Handbook, and it's written by Terri Warren, one of the world's leading experts in herpes. It's free, and you can read it on any device.
Ask me anything. I'm an open book. :)
To add to all this crazy confusion, another doctor looked at my picture that I took last week and said he was confident it was not HSV-2 but folliculitis, as he said my symptoms do not align with HSV-2 (think he was referring to the "intolerant burning" as he describes). No idea if this is true or not, but after 2 weeks, I am having some smaller lesions pop up and they just feel like spots. They do not hurt when I touch them all at and are not pus filled. Is this normal? I can't be 100% certain I have HSV-2, or any HSV now. It's all very confusing. I have gone ahead and ordered an IGG antibody test to try and get some answers, but the only way I feel I am going to know for certain is either I go to the clinic and have somebody look at them properly or do a Western blot. I know like yourself Jessie, many people do experience painful primary outbreaks but a lot of people don't so I've read. A lot of people don't even know they are having symptoms, so again it all adds to be confusion lol. If I go to the clinic tomorrow, I doubt they'll be able to swap anything as there's no actual blisters but maybe by a visual exam they can tell me what they think. I'm going crazy otherwise!
8 Comments
swab**
Okay, responding to all of it here.
Handjobs don't transmit herpes. It wouldn't be from that, if this is herpes.
I think a blood test is the place to start, and a clinic visit, if you can do that. A visual diagnosis of herpes is often wrong, and I do understand that you had little choice at the time. When you go to the clinic, if you haven't already, given the time difference, ask them to do a PCR swab, if they can. It's far more sensitive than a regular culture, and should be able to pick up herpes even without fluid-filled blisters.
I think you need some lab tests to figure this out. I won't even speculate on what it is, or I'll just likely add to the confusion.
Handjobs don't transmit herpes. It wouldn't be from that, if this is herpes.
I think a blood test is the place to start, and a clinic visit, if you can do that. A visual diagnosis of herpes is often wrong, and I do understand that you had little choice at the time. When you go to the clinic, if you haven't already, given the time difference, ask them to do a PCR swab, if they can. It's far more sensitive than a regular culture, and should be able to pick up herpes even without fluid-filled blisters.
I think you need some lab tests to figure this out. I won't even speculate on what it is, or I'll just likely add to the confusion.
Yes, I think you're right. I've just ordered an IGG anitbody blood test and should be arriving tomorrow. I have noticed within the last couple of days, I have little red spots that appear in the same area. They are not blisters, just spots that no not hurt to touch or burn. I would like to go back to the clinic but there are no blisters that they could swab, but as you said I could ask for a PCR swab - not sure if they do them here or not. I think I'll wait for these bloods to come back and then wait and see what my body wants to do. It's been the most confusing time of my life...haha.
I think it's fine to wait for the bloods.
Do the sexual health clinics in the UK have a number you can call to find out if they do PCR testing? I tried googling it, but all I found was really basic info about them doing a swab if you have a sore.
I saw your question on Terri's site. She mentioned that there are issues with the blood tests. In case I haven't mentioned it - the hsv1 blood test misses 30% of infections, though you've indicated that receiving oral sex isn't a thing you prefer, so if this is herpes, it's not likely to be ghsv1.
The hsv2 test gives false positives, and here's where it may get tricky for you. The cutoff for a positive test is 1.10. However, we know that a test with a 1.10-3.5 (and sometimes even above that) can be a false positive. The lower the number, the higher the chance of a false pos.
If you have a new infection, you might have a low number of antibodies, and it may show up as a true positive with a low number, so if it's a low number, you'll have to test again at 12 weeks from the encounter you had at the beginning of March (that's the last real possible exposure you could have had).
Assuming that was March 1, your 12 week test date would be May 24.
Do the sexual health clinics in the UK have a number you can call to find out if they do PCR testing? I tried googling it, but all I found was really basic info about them doing a swab if you have a sore.
I saw your question on Terri's site. She mentioned that there are issues with the blood tests. In case I haven't mentioned it - the hsv1 blood test misses 30% of infections, though you've indicated that receiving oral sex isn't a thing you prefer, so if this is herpes, it's not likely to be ghsv1.
The hsv2 test gives false positives, and here's where it may get tricky for you. The cutoff for a positive test is 1.10. However, we know that a test with a 1.10-3.5 (and sometimes even above that) can be a false positive. The lower the number, the higher the chance of a false pos.
If you have a new infection, you might have a low number of antibodies, and it may show up as a true positive with a low number, so if it's a low number, you'll have to test again at 12 weeks from the encounter you had at the beginning of March (that's the last real possible exposure you could have had).
Assuming that was March 1, your 12 week test date would be May 24.
Thanks Jessie. I think it's probably best if I a) wait a while to do the test to see if the antibodies are there - maybe in 12 weeks time as opposed to doing it now perhaps, or do you suggest doing one now and then doing one in 12 weeks time?
I don't think the UK would do a PCR test. The last time I heard the word "PCR" was during COVID. Never thought I'd hear that word again...haha. But, I believe it's just a swab from a sore/open blister as the NHS website suggests.
From speaking with Terri, yourself and several doctors, the overall consensus is that it is very unlikely that a) I got this from doing erotic massages with underwear on and b) very unlikely that I transmitted the virus to myself by touching myself after a handjob/giving oral sex. Although some sites do say that transmission is possible that way, I believe from everything I read, it is genital skin to skin contact - either through rubbing genitals together or through direct sex/sexual contact - i.e - oral sex, vaginal, anal etc. with friction. If that is the case, which I believe it to be, it must have either come from the attempted rape 14 days ago, or I've had it longer and it's just made an appearance now. I guess I'll never truly know, but I'm satisfied now that I most likely did not get this from work.
I don't know what to do now moving forward though., if I should disclose to any further partner or not. I guess I should probably mention something, but without a firm diagnosis it's hard. I will go to the clinic if/when I see/feel another blister if I get one and get it swabbed. I will go the blood tests too, and let some time pass by. I believe a Western blot is also the gold standard but expensive...and not sure if possible for UK citizens.
I don't think the UK would do a PCR test. The last time I heard the word "PCR" was during COVID. Never thought I'd hear that word again...haha. But, I believe it's just a swab from a sore/open blister as the NHS website suggests.
From speaking with Terri, yourself and several doctors, the overall consensus is that it is very unlikely that a) I got this from doing erotic massages with underwear on and b) very unlikely that I transmitted the virus to myself by touching myself after a handjob/giving oral sex. Although some sites do say that transmission is possible that way, I believe from everything I read, it is genital skin to skin contact - either through rubbing genitals together or through direct sex/sexual contact - i.e - oral sex, vaginal, anal etc. with friction. If that is the case, which I believe it to be, it must have either come from the attempted rape 14 days ago, or I've had it longer and it's just made an appearance now. I guess I'll never truly know, but I'm satisfied now that I most likely did not get this from work.
I don't know what to do now moving forward though., if I should disclose to any further partner or not. I guess I should probably mention something, but without a firm diagnosis it's hard. I will go to the clinic if/when I see/feel another blister if I get one and get it swabbed. I will go the blood tests too, and let some time pass by. I believe a Western blot is also the gold standard but expensive...and not sure if possible for UK citizens.
I think it's up to you on the timing of the tests. If you test now and it's negative, and positive later, you'll know it's a new infection.
If you test now and it's a low positive, and still a low positive later, you'll know it's a false positive.
If you test at 12 weeks, and it's negative, you know it's negative. If you test at 12 weeks, and it's a low positive, it's probably a false positive, but we can address that then.
The WB is expensive, and I know Terri has worked with some people in the UK to get the test done. It's only done at the Univ of Washington in the US, so it can't be run in the UK, but people in the UK have had it done.
Definitely start with the IgG, though. If it's negative, you won't need the WB.
For sure, if you get another blister, get it swabbed.
PCR testing is a type of testing, and there are many things that it's used for. Covid is one of them. Herpes is another. I don't know what it's like now in the UK, but covid isn't going anywhere in the US.
"From speaking with Terri, yourself and several doctors, the overall consensus is that it is very unlikely that a) I got this from doing erotic massages with underwear on and b) very unlikely that I transmitted the virus to myself by touching myself after a handjob/giving oral sex."
A is extremely unlikely, and B is absolutely not. If it were that easy, the vast majority of people who are sexually active would have it.
Of course, we're assuming that this is herpes. You just need some testing now. Are you having partners now? Clients? If you are massaging, and wearing underwear, I don't think you need to tell them. If you are having sex, you might want to tell them you are having symptoms of something that might be herpes, but you aren't sure yet.
If you test now and it's a low positive, and still a low positive later, you'll know it's a false positive.
If you test at 12 weeks, and it's negative, you know it's negative. If you test at 12 weeks, and it's a low positive, it's probably a false positive, but we can address that then.
The WB is expensive, and I know Terri has worked with some people in the UK to get the test done. It's only done at the Univ of Washington in the US, so it can't be run in the UK, but people in the UK have had it done.
Definitely start with the IgG, though. If it's negative, you won't need the WB.
For sure, if you get another blister, get it swabbed.
PCR testing is a type of testing, and there are many things that it's used for. Covid is one of them. Herpes is another. I don't know what it's like now in the UK, but covid isn't going anywhere in the US.
"From speaking with Terri, yourself and several doctors, the overall consensus is that it is very unlikely that a) I got this from doing erotic massages with underwear on and b) very unlikely that I transmitted the virus to myself by touching myself after a handjob/giving oral sex."
A is extremely unlikely, and B is absolutely not. If it were that easy, the vast majority of people who are sexually active would have it.
Of course, we're assuming that this is herpes. You just need some testing now. Are you having partners now? Clients? If you are massaging, and wearing underwear, I don't think you need to tell them. If you are having sex, you might want to tell them you are having symptoms of something that might be herpes, but you aren't sure yet.
You give some very good scenarios/outcomes and I think I'll test tomorrow and then wait another 12-16 weeks and test again. I think that will hopefully give me some answers one way or another. Just want to personally say 'Thank you so much' for all your support/help/clear guidance on my situation. It has been a very confusing time for sure, but hopefully I'll get some answers one way or another soon.
I don't have any partners, nor am I planning on but just thinking about the future. For example, if I never get another outbreak or the blood tests are unclear, I would still feel wrong not to say anything. I don't have sex with clients so it would only be people in my private life.
On another note, during my hours and hours of research on herpes over the past couple of weeks, I have noticed there are some very interesting clinical trials in the pipeline right now. I think they are trying to push for a cure or a least a functional cure in terms of a therapeutic vaccine. I also think CRISPR gene editing seems very promising. :)
I don't have any partners, nor am I planning on but just thinking about the future. For example, if I never get another outbreak or the blood tests are unclear, I would still feel wrong not to say anything. I don't have sex with clients so it would only be people in my private life.
On another note, during my hours and hours of research on herpes over the past couple of weeks, I have noticed there are some very interesting clinical trials in the pipeline right now. I think they are trying to push for a cure or a least a functional cure in terms of a therapeutic vaccine. I also think CRISPR gene editing seems very promising. :)
I think your testing plan is a good one.
I know it's hard to not worry or wonder about the future with partners, but that's kind of getting ahead of yourself. You don't even know what you have right now, or what your tests tomorrow will show, or at 12 weeks.
Let's worry about that when it happens. I know that's super easy for me to say, and in your situation, I'd be thinking about the exact same things you are, but really, one step at a time. You'll drive yourself crazy otherwise.
I do think we are closer to a cure than we've ever been, but we still have a ways to go. Nothing is even at human testing yet, and that's a process that takes years. It's all good news what we have, but I always hesitate talking about it because I don't want anyone with herpes waiting for it and not living their life.
I know it's hard to not worry or wonder about the future with partners, but that's kind of getting ahead of yourself. You don't even know what you have right now, or what your tests tomorrow will show, or at 12 weeks.
Let's worry about that when it happens. I know that's super easy for me to say, and in your situation, I'd be thinking about the exact same things you are, but really, one step at a time. You'll drive yourself crazy otherwise.
I do think we are closer to a cure than we've ever been, but we still have a ways to go. Nothing is even at human testing yet, and that's a process that takes years. It's all good news what we have, but I always hesitate talking about it because I don't want anyone with herpes waiting for it and not living their life.
Hi Jessi!
Thank you for your reply.I took some photos and sent them to an online doctor who diagnosed it. I knew what it was from the look of it and the blisters and small cluster. The outbreak in all honesty wasn't even that bad. I have since spoken to a doctor who told me vaginal sex can give herpes in that region too.
Are you sure there isn't a way my underwear didn't cover everything and grinding over a penis would pass on this virus? I've been beating myself up over this ever since. I've been hearing different things online. I don't know what to believe in all honesty. I also thought the butt wasn't a mucous membrane so no chance of the virus getting in that way? All I hear on the internet is "skin on skin" contact which I guess that is.
Thanks for that resource - will take a look :)
Thank you for your reply.I took some photos and sent them to an online doctor who diagnosed it. I knew what it was from the look of it and the blisters and small cluster. The outbreak in all honesty wasn't even that bad. I have since spoken to a doctor who told me vaginal sex can give herpes in that region too.
Are you sure there isn't a way my underwear didn't cover everything and grinding over a penis would pass on this virus? I've been beating myself up over this ever since. I've been hearing different things online. I don't know what to believe in all honesty. I also thought the butt wasn't a mucous membrane so no chance of the virus getting in that way? All I hear on the internet is "skin on skin" contact which I guess that is.
Thanks for that resource - will take a look :)
18 Comments
Hi :)
Well, depending on how long and how vigorous the grinding is when the skin to skin contact happens - the grinding over a penis part - yeah, it could happen, but it usually takes the kind of rubbing associated with intercourse. If it's a simple glance or brush over the area, it won't transmit.
Yes, you can get an outbreak anywhere in the anogenital area. Herpes infects nerve groups, and genital herpes infects the sacral ganglia, which affects the area waist down, essentially. The most common areas of outbreaks are the penis, the anus, the vaginal area, the buttocks.
It's transmitted through the mucous membranes, but you don't necessarily get outbreaks just on them. My ex who I got it from got them mostly in his pubic hair area.
One thing about genital herpes - you can get genital herpes type 1 (ghsv1). This means if someone who has oral herpes type 1 and gives you oral sex, you can get genital herpes type 1. The number indicates the strain of the virus, not the location. If someone rimmed you, that could transmit it to the anal area.
Visually, you wouldn't see any difference between ghsv1 and ghsv2.
You can read more about that in the handbook.
It really only matters because transmission rates are different, outbreak frequency is different, so treatment decisions might be different. The only way to know is to get an outbreak cultured. Right now, it might not matter, but later, when you're feeling better, if you get an outbreak, you can get it cultured.
Well, depending on how long and how vigorous the grinding is when the skin to skin contact happens - the grinding over a penis part - yeah, it could happen, but it usually takes the kind of rubbing associated with intercourse. If it's a simple glance or brush over the area, it won't transmit.
Yes, you can get an outbreak anywhere in the anogenital area. Herpes infects nerve groups, and genital herpes infects the sacral ganglia, which affects the area waist down, essentially. The most common areas of outbreaks are the penis, the anus, the vaginal area, the buttocks.
It's transmitted through the mucous membranes, but you don't necessarily get outbreaks just on them. My ex who I got it from got them mostly in his pubic hair area.
One thing about genital herpes - you can get genital herpes type 1 (ghsv1). This means if someone who has oral herpes type 1 and gives you oral sex, you can get genital herpes type 1. The number indicates the strain of the virus, not the location. If someone rimmed you, that could transmit it to the anal area.
Visually, you wouldn't see any difference between ghsv1 and ghsv2.
You can read more about that in the handbook.
It really only matters because transmission rates are different, outbreak frequency is different, so treatment decisions might be different. The only way to know is to get an outbreak cultured. Right now, it might not matter, but later, when you're feeling better, if you get an outbreak, you can get it cultured.
Thanks again :)
It's never anything completely vigorous no. Definitely not like sex anyway! Just gentle brushing/grinding up and down against that region really - always with my underwear on and a lingerie dress. I don't ever spend a lot of time over their penis either. I just hope my underwear covered everything, but even if it didn't - I think my chances are still quite low right?!
Yes, I have heard about HS1 and HS2. I have spent the whole week reading up about Herpes and have spoken to countless people who have told me it's nothing :). I think it's just the shock of it all and it hasn't quite sunk in yet.
I didn't know until today that I could get outbreaks on my buttocks and near the anus region from vaginal sex...I think it's possible that perhaps I was exposed 6 weeks ago (or possibly earlier) and it lay dormant and due to my injury and shock of the incredible amount of pain and stress on my nerves in my back, I have had this initial outbreak. I hope that is the case anyway, as it saddens metto think I could have prevented this and got it from my work. Hence why I always wear underwear to protect myself.
It's never anything completely vigorous no. Definitely not like sex anyway! Just gentle brushing/grinding up and down against that region really - always with my underwear on and a lingerie dress. I don't ever spend a lot of time over their penis either. I just hope my underwear covered everything, but even if it didn't - I think my chances are still quite low right?!
Yes, I have heard about HS1 and HS2. I have spent the whole week reading up about Herpes and have spoken to countless people who have told me it's nothing :). I think it's just the shock of it all and it hasn't quite sunk in yet.
I didn't know until today that I could get outbreaks on my buttocks and near the anus region from vaginal sex...I think it's possible that perhaps I was exposed 6 weeks ago (or possibly earlier) and it lay dormant and due to my injury and shock of the incredible amount of pain and stress on my nerves in my back, I have had this initial outbreak. I hope that is the case anyway, as it saddens metto think I could have prevented this and got it from my work. Hence why I always wear underwear to protect myself.
It really doesn't sound like you got it from your work. It sounds like the injury triggered the outbreak, especially since it wasn't bad. Initial outbreaks with new infections are typically bad.
I'd say the chances are very, very low from the work you do - probably zero. In my two decades of doing this, I've never met anyone who has gotten it from massage that didn't include oral, vaginal or anal sex.
I'm sorry about your back, too. That sounds incredibly painful. Once that gets better, you can resume your work if you want, and not have to worry about transmission. You can think about that later, if you want, and read about transmission in the handbook. I'll also answer anything. :)
I'd say the chances are very, very low from the work you do - probably zero. In my two decades of doing this, I've never met anyone who has gotten it from massage that didn't include oral, vaginal or anal sex.
I'm sorry about your back, too. That sounds incredibly painful. Once that gets better, you can resume your work if you want, and not have to worry about transmission. You can think about that later, if you want, and read about transmission in the handbook. I'll also answer anything. :)
Thank you so much. Your kind words mean a lot to me. I enjoy doing massages of the erotic kind and felt upset that I could have put myself at risk or someone else by brushing up and grinding on them with my underwear on.
The outbreak I think was an initial one, but can't be too sure. When I was much much younger (talking 15- 20 odd years ago) i did notice a couple of very small cold sore looking spots in my vagina. They went away within days and I did think that I had contracted HSV then...but never was tested and perhaps they were just ingrown hairs. I had a little pain in that area last week when I touched the sores, but to be honest I was in so much pain in my tailbone/back that I wouldn't have noticed. I had about 4/5 blisters and a couple of small spots. Nothing too crazy...been just over a week and all but gone.
I took Lysine straight away which may have helped them heal more quickly though. I'm just worried about telling potential partners and the stigma of it all rather than the actual thing itself.
The outbreak I think was an initial one, but can't be too sure. When I was much much younger (talking 15- 20 odd years ago) i did notice a couple of very small cold sore looking spots in my vagina. They went away within days and I did think that I had contracted HSV then...but never was tested and perhaps they were just ingrown hairs. I had a little pain in that area last week when I touched the sores, but to be honest I was in so much pain in my tailbone/back that I wouldn't have noticed. I had about 4/5 blisters and a couple of small spots. Nothing too crazy...been just over a week and all but gone.
I took Lysine straight away which may have helped them heal more quickly though. I'm just worried about telling potential partners and the stigma of it all rather than the actual thing itself.
Sorry, I should have said primary outbreak, which means outbreak with a brand new infection. Initial outbreak just means first outbreak - doesn't haven't to be a new infection.
Telling people at first isn't easy. The first time I told someone I had note cards, like I was giving a school presentation or something. I got through the sentence, "I have genital herpes type 2, also known as hsv2..." and the guy said, "oh my ex had that, no big deal". I sat there kind of stunned, and he just laughed and said, "Did you need to finish your speech? I can let you." Nope, I don't need to, thanks.
I've only had one guy who declined to be with me, and he had a serious, serious germ phobia. He couldn't sit comfortably at the restaurant, knowing others had eaten off the forks before us. No one else has cared. I've tried to use it as a repellent, like, "oh you don't want me, I have herpes", and I swear it doesn't work. I've had a lot of guys say, "Oh I have it, too!"
I'm not special. I got herpes in my mid 30s, and I'm in my mid 50s now. I'm not gorgeous, and could lose some weight. I'm sure you won't have any issues, either. Just give yourself some grace.
Telling people at first isn't easy. The first time I told someone I had note cards, like I was giving a school presentation or something. I got through the sentence, "I have genital herpes type 2, also known as hsv2..." and the guy said, "oh my ex had that, no big deal". I sat there kind of stunned, and he just laughed and said, "Did you need to finish your speech? I can let you." Nope, I don't need to, thanks.
I've only had one guy who declined to be with me, and he had a serious, serious germ phobia. He couldn't sit comfortably at the restaurant, knowing others had eaten off the forks before us. No one else has cared. I've tried to use it as a repellent, like, "oh you don't want me, I have herpes", and I swear it doesn't work. I've had a lot of guys say, "Oh I have it, too!"
I'm not special. I got herpes in my mid 30s, and I'm in my mid 50s now. I'm not gorgeous, and could lose some weight. I'm sure you won't have any issues, either. Just give yourself some grace.
Thanks again for your reply - you sound wonderful by the way! I am still massively struggling with this in all honesty and I don't know why. I remember a really good friend of mine disclosed it at college 20 odd years ago. We were both quite sexually active back then and I couldn't understand how she had gotten it, and I hadn't. She was in more long-term relationships too. I know it's common - I get that. I really do. I think I'm just battling with how I potentially got it (from erotic massage) and it kills me knowing that it could have been avoided if I had been more careful. I wouldn't have minded getting it from a former lover (stupid, I know!) but that's just how I'm feeling at the moment and I've been depressed for a week constantly crying and breaking down. I spoke to an online doctor on one of those 'Just answer' things. They said the risk is low from me wearing underwear, but then other sources suggest otherwise. I know I need to make peace with it - but not sure how. I feel so dirty, diseased, ashamed.
I am unsure and a little confused also by the terms 'primary' and 'initial' outbreak. I thought they were the same thing. Also confusing to hear how some people have incredibly mild outbreaks that go unnoticed, yet other have these crazy first outbreaks that they can't even go to the toilet. Is it possible to have an initial, i.e. - first outbreak and not notice, but then have a second outbreak later and it be a lot more severe due to illness/injury/infection?
Regarding telling partners, this is the tricky part. How exactly are you going to disclose this after a random hook-up from a night out? - (not that I usually do that, but you know what I'm saying). I think a lot of people will be fine with it of course, but the fear of rejection is quite difficult to get your head around. I think a lot of people don't disclose either. Maybe I will be surprised to learn that potential future partners will have it too.
Everything just feels bleak right now and very uncertain.
I am unsure and a little confused also by the terms 'primary' and 'initial' outbreak. I thought they were the same thing. Also confusing to hear how some people have incredibly mild outbreaks that go unnoticed, yet other have these crazy first outbreaks that they can't even go to the toilet. Is it possible to have an initial, i.e. - first outbreak and not notice, but then have a second outbreak later and it be a lot more severe due to illness/injury/infection?
Regarding telling partners, this is the tricky part. How exactly are you going to disclose this after a random hook-up from a night out? - (not that I usually do that, but you know what I'm saying). I think a lot of people will be fine with it of course, but the fear of rejection is quite difficult to get your head around. I think a lot of people don't disclose either. Maybe I will be surprised to learn that potential future partners will have it too.
Everything just feels bleak right now and very uncertain.
Okay, so "primary" means first outbreak when it's a brand new infection and you have no antibodies yet.
"Initial" means first outbreak but you have had the infection already and have antibodies. When this happens, it's typically less severe because your antibodies can keep it in check.
Yes, it's possible to have a primary and not notice it. Typically, the primary is big, bad and ugly, but it isn't always and it can be missed. You might think it's a yeast infection or shaving cuts, etc.
My primary was big, bad and ugly. It was miserable. However, I've come to realize over the years that in some ways, I was lucky. There was no mistaking it. It was easy to diagnose, I had a partner who I knew had hsv2, and I had nothing but clarity in what I had, where I got it, and when. I even know the encounter I got it in while in a 6 year relationship.
I think knowing all that made it easier to accept. I don't do well with the unknown, and it would make me crazy not knowing. I realize it's very easy for me to sit here and say, "Oh you'll likely never know, but it doesn't matter if it was 6 weeks ago or 6 years ago". Emotionally, it matters for a lot of people.
When I was in college, I had way more than my share of partners. I didn't get it until I was in a long term serious relationship. The world is a strange place sometimes.
A good friend of mine who also has it and used to have casual hookups used to say, "I have genital herpes. Because we'll be using condoms and I take daily meds, the risk to you is very, very low. It's not zero, though, so it's your call, and no hard feelings. What about you? What should I know?"
She kept it short and sweet, and always made sure to ask what they had, and assumed everyone had something. A few people turned her down, but everyone was respectful, and thanked her for telling them. She met her husband this way. :)
Remember that anyone can reject you for any reason - your height, hair color, eye color, political beliefs, the way you chew gum, your clothing choices, being too thin, too fat -whatever. This is just one more thing you can't control. No one likes rejection, but it just means there's a reason you weren't supposed to be with that person, whether it's for a night or for longer.
If your underwear covers your mucous membranes, you can't transmit it, and you can't catch it. STIs don't go through clothing. We have many years of science to back this up.
It's unfortunate that you're injured right now because it gives you a lot of time to think and google. Try to keep yourself otherwise occupied, as much as possible. Hang in there!
"Initial" means first outbreak but you have had the infection already and have antibodies. When this happens, it's typically less severe because your antibodies can keep it in check.
Yes, it's possible to have a primary and not notice it. Typically, the primary is big, bad and ugly, but it isn't always and it can be missed. You might think it's a yeast infection or shaving cuts, etc.
My primary was big, bad and ugly. It was miserable. However, I've come to realize over the years that in some ways, I was lucky. There was no mistaking it. It was easy to diagnose, I had a partner who I knew had hsv2, and I had nothing but clarity in what I had, where I got it, and when. I even know the encounter I got it in while in a 6 year relationship.
I think knowing all that made it easier to accept. I don't do well with the unknown, and it would make me crazy not knowing. I realize it's very easy for me to sit here and say, "Oh you'll likely never know, but it doesn't matter if it was 6 weeks ago or 6 years ago". Emotionally, it matters for a lot of people.
When I was in college, I had way more than my share of partners. I didn't get it until I was in a long term serious relationship. The world is a strange place sometimes.
A good friend of mine who also has it and used to have casual hookups used to say, "I have genital herpes. Because we'll be using condoms and I take daily meds, the risk to you is very, very low. It's not zero, though, so it's your call, and no hard feelings. What about you? What should I know?"
She kept it short and sweet, and always made sure to ask what they had, and assumed everyone had something. A few people turned her down, but everyone was respectful, and thanked her for telling them. She met her husband this way. :)
Remember that anyone can reject you for any reason - your height, hair color, eye color, political beliefs, the way you chew gum, your clothing choices, being too thin, too fat -whatever. This is just one more thing you can't control. No one likes rejection, but it just means there's a reason you weren't supposed to be with that person, whether it's for a night or for longer.
If your underwear covers your mucous membranes, you can't transmit it, and you can't catch it. STIs don't go through clothing. We have many years of science to back this up.
It's unfortunate that you're injured right now because it gives you a lot of time to think and google. Try to keep yourself otherwise occupied, as much as possible. Hang in there!
Okay, so "primary" means first outbreak when it's a brand new infection and you have no antibodies yet.
"Initial" means first outbreak but you have had the infection already and have antibodies. When this happens, it's typically less severe because your antibodies can keep it in check.
What if the infection lies dormant in the body once you have been exposed. We know a lot of people do not have symptoms of herpes for a good while. Would it be fair to say that if they get an outbreak it is likely to be less severe as they already have the antibodies in their system? For context, my symptoms were not very bad I don't think. I had maybe 3 prominent blisters, and maybe another 2/3 smaller ones/spots in or around the area. No real flu. I managed to go to the toilet fine. Pain wise...well I was in so much pain with my back that I wouldn't have noticed anyway. Bur nothing like some of the things I've read online.
"Initial" means first outbreak but you have had the infection already and have antibodies. When this happens, it's typically less severe because your antibodies can keep it in check.
What if the infection lies dormant in the body once you have been exposed. We know a lot of people do not have symptoms of herpes for a good while. Would it be fair to say that if they get an outbreak it is likely to be less severe as they already have the antibodies in their system? For context, my symptoms were not very bad I don't think. I had maybe 3 prominent blisters, and maybe another 2/3 smaller ones/spots in or around the area. No real flu. I managed to go to the toilet fine. Pain wise...well I was in so much pain with my back that I wouldn't have noticed anyway. Bur nothing like some of the things I've read online.
So I need to correct a really common myth about herpes. It's never really "dormant" in the body. You may not have outbreaks, but you could still transmit it - it's still shedding on the skin. It's active in the body. It might not be every day, and we don't know how often it is for every person, but it's not "dormant".
For example, I can't remember the last outbreak I've had. It's been years. However, I know that I still shed, and that when I get sick, like when I got covid, or really stressed, like when my dad died, my body has to fight more to do everything it normally does, so I might be shedding more. I take valacyclovir every day, which helps a lot. (Without it, I get frequent outbreaks.)
You are probably able to go to the toilet okay because of where your sores are. If they were on your vulva, it would be very different. The reason it hurts so much to pee when you have the primary is because the urine hits the sores, and that HURTS. (The acid in the urine is what causes that pain, and if you ever get sores on your vulva, drink lots of water to help dilute the acid, and it will help a lot.)
Because you haven't had any flu-like symptoms, I'd guess - and it's a guess - that this is not a new infection. Are you on any pain meds for your back? That might mask some of your other symptoms.
It's definitely fair to say that once you get antibodies, your outbreaks are less severe. They don't last as long, the sores are fewer in number, and they hurt less.
For example, I can't remember the last outbreak I've had. It's been years. However, I know that I still shed, and that when I get sick, like when I got covid, or really stressed, like when my dad died, my body has to fight more to do everything it normally does, so I might be shedding more. I take valacyclovir every day, which helps a lot. (Without it, I get frequent outbreaks.)
You are probably able to go to the toilet okay because of where your sores are. If they were on your vulva, it would be very different. The reason it hurts so much to pee when you have the primary is because the urine hits the sores, and that HURTS. (The acid in the urine is what causes that pain, and if you ever get sores on your vulva, drink lots of water to help dilute the acid, and it will help a lot.)
Because you haven't had any flu-like symptoms, I'd guess - and it's a guess - that this is not a new infection. Are you on any pain meds for your back? That might mask some of your other symptoms.
It's definitely fair to say that once you get antibodies, your outbreaks are less severe. They don't last as long, the sores are fewer in number, and they hurt less.
That's my understanding yes. You can shred the virus without any symptoms being present. I'm lucky that I haven't had any on my vagina...only my butt cheeks and near anus.
I had the odd headache and feeling of sickness a few days prior but put that down to the amount of pain and stress I was under. I also felt very ill taking ibuprofen. I was a little tender in my neck too, but no crazy flu like symptoms. It was an incredibly stressful week when I put my back out. Luckily, I'm on the mend now but this hasn't helped.
Having said all that, I haven't really had a breakout like this before I don't think so I'm not sure if it's a primary one or not. I guess the sores are now all practically gone, so that's on day 9.
Do you take antivirals every single day? I think I'm just going to see how my body reacts to this. I feel, if this was my first primary outbreak then anymore would be quite mild I would have thought as this one hadn't been too bad.
My question earlier about dormancy was more about if I had been exposed to the virus years/months ago, and I'm only getting symptoms now, my body would already have made the antibodies to fight it right? - hence more milder symptoms?
(Sorry, realised I asked you many questions there!)
I had the odd headache and feeling of sickness a few days prior but put that down to the amount of pain and stress I was under. I also felt very ill taking ibuprofen. I was a little tender in my neck too, but no crazy flu like symptoms. It was an incredibly stressful week when I put my back out. Luckily, I'm on the mend now but this hasn't helped.
Having said all that, I haven't really had a breakout like this before I don't think so I'm not sure if it's a primary one or not. I guess the sores are now all practically gone, so that's on day 9.
Do you take antivirals every single day? I think I'm just going to see how my body reacts to this. I feel, if this was my first primary outbreak then anymore would be quite mild I would have thought as this one hadn't been too bad.
My question earlier about dormancy was more about if I had been exposed to the virus years/months ago, and I'm only getting symptoms now, my body would already have made the antibodies to fight it right? - hence more milder symptoms?
(Sorry, realised I asked you many questions there!)
I take antivirals every day. Without them, I get frequent outbreaks.
I think taking meds is a personal decision and there is no right or wrong choice. Especially since there is a chance you have genital hsv1, it makes sense to see how your body reacts.
Oh for sure - if you've had it for awhile, it makes sense that you'd get milder symptoms now. If you find you get symptoms during a really stressful time, you can also take meds during that time, and then stop later.
How are you feeling now? Your sores are gone? How's your back?
I think taking meds is a personal decision and there is no right or wrong choice. Especially since there is a chance you have genital hsv1, it makes sense to see how your body reacts.
Oh for sure - if you've had it for awhile, it makes sense that you'd get milder symptoms now. If you find you get symptoms during a really stressful time, you can also take meds during that time, and then stop later.
How are you feeling now? Your sores are gone? How's your back?
I felt another 'tingle' today which is strange. I thought my outbreak was over. Felt the start of another blister, so quickly took 3 1000mg Lysine tablets and I can't feel anything now haha.
I don't think it would be HSV1- although I can't be certain. I've never really let many men give me oral sex to be honest (I used to when I was younger but that was some 18 years ago now). I am still feeling a great deal of stress/emotional upset/anguish about it all. It's the not knowing that's eating me up more than anything.
I think it would make sense though if my outbreaks are mild to have had the virus for a while. Can't be certain though. Can't be certain of anything at this point.
Personally, do you know of/heard of anybody who has gotten this virus without intercourse, i.e. - genital rubbing, touching etc. And do you know if the mucous membranes include the public region too? - So where the public hair is - can that be a mucous membrane? If it's only the actual vagina - I don't think there was any actual contact made between the penis and my underwear covered most of that part.
I might take an antibody test to determine if I already have the antibodies in my system.
I don't think it would be HSV1- although I can't be certain. I've never really let many men give me oral sex to be honest (I used to when I was younger but that was some 18 years ago now). I am still feeling a great deal of stress/emotional upset/anguish about it all. It's the not knowing that's eating me up more than anything.
I think it would make sense though if my outbreaks are mild to have had the virus for a while. Can't be certain though. Can't be certain of anything at this point.
Personally, do you know of/heard of anybody who has gotten this virus without intercourse, i.e. - genital rubbing, touching etc. And do you know if the mucous membranes include the public region too? - So where the public hair is - can that be a mucous membrane? If it's only the actual vagina - I don't think there was any actual contact made between the penis and my underwear covered most of that part.
I might take an antibody test to determine if I already have the antibodies in my system.
I haven't met anyone who's gotten without intercourse, but I'm sure it's happened.
Mucous membranes on a female are labia minora - the inner lips, the vaginal opening area, the anus and the inside of the vagina. It's the thinner skin, the moist area. If you mean the mons pubis - the area above the genitals - that's not a mucous membrane.
If you can get an antibody test, then take one. Antibodies develop as soon as 2 weeks, but can take up to 12 weeks. Even if you have antibodies, the number may help figure out how long you've had it - it's not near an exact science, but if it's a really high number, you've had it longer.
Blood tests aren't always as easy to get in Canada, the UK, a lot of places in Europe, as they are in the US. But check with your doctor.
I know how important it is to know and figure it all out. I just want to stress that you may not ever figure it out. Do what you need to do to help figure it out, if you can, but also keep in mind that you might not know. :(
Mucous membranes on a female are labia minora - the inner lips, the vaginal opening area, the anus and the inside of the vagina. It's the thinner skin, the moist area. If you mean the mons pubis - the area above the genitals - that's not a mucous membrane.
If you can get an antibody test, then take one. Antibodies develop as soon as 2 weeks, but can take up to 12 weeks. Even if you have antibodies, the number may help figure out how long you've had it - it's not near an exact science, but if it's a really high number, you've had it longer.
Blood tests aren't always as easy to get in Canada, the UK, a lot of places in Europe, as they are in the US. But check with your doctor.
I know how important it is to know and figure it all out. I just want to stress that you may not ever figure it out. Do what you need to do to help figure it out, if you can, but also keep in mind that you might not know. :(
Yes, my bad the mons pubis. If the mucous membranes are as the above like you stated...I just don't know how I've got this from (I mean recently). My underwear would have covered those places I'm sure. This wasn't direct skin-on-skin either, but I guess it could have gotten through...ugh, I guess I'll never know and need to let it go.
What I will say is, I was almost raped 2 weeks prior (luckily I managed to get the guy off me in time) but there was almost penetration. His genitals and ours were exposed whilst he was trying to force his penis inside me. I guess that genital contact could have caused this (on day 14).
I have found an online clinic where I can order an IGG antibody test from (I'm from the UK) I think I will do that and just see. I've reached out to Terri Warren too for some advice on this issue. I see she has a lot of experience on Herpes.
What I will say is, I was almost raped 2 weeks prior (luckily I managed to get the guy off me in time) but there was almost penetration. His genitals and ours were exposed whilst he was trying to force his penis inside me. I guess that genital contact could have caused this (on day 14).
I have found an online clinic where I can order an IGG antibody test from (I'm from the UK) I think I will do that and just see. I've reached out to Terri Warren too for some advice on this issue. I see she has a lot of experience on Herpes.
I'm so, so sorry that happened to you, and unfortunately, yes, that encounter could have caused this. The timing fits.
If you order the IgG test, please know that there will be emotions to deal with after - if you got this from that encounter, that's a whole different thing to deal with than getting it from an encounter you wanted.
Make sure the IgG test is type specific. If it comes back as just having herpes antibodies, that will do you no good, as it might mean you have a pre-existing oral hsv1 infection, but the non-specific test won't differentiate between 1 and 2.
Also - https://rapecrisis.org.uk/find-a-centre/
Counseling can really help.
Terri is amazing. I hope she can help offer some clarity.
If you order the IgG test, please know that there will be emotions to deal with after - if you got this from that encounter, that's a whole different thing to deal with than getting it from an encounter you wanted.
Make sure the IgG test is type specific. If it comes back as just having herpes antibodies, that will do you no good, as it might mean you have a pre-existing oral hsv1 infection, but the non-specific test won't differentiate between 1 and 2.
Also - https://rapecrisis.org.uk/find-a-centre/
Counseling can really help.
Terri is amazing. I hope she can help offer some clarity.
Oh a note about Terri's forum - she can take several days to respond. DO NOT bump your post up. She answers oldest first, and if you post again, it will make yours seem newer, and it will take longer to get to yours.
Just a helpful hint.
Just a helpful hint.
I understand - Thank you. I am going to seek out some counselling anyway. The more I think about it, the more likely it has come from that encounter than anything else to do with my massages. The timing is 14 days...well perhaps it's a little out of the incubation period which I always hear is 2-12 days, but I don't know exactly. I hear different things on that.
I do know with this encounter our genitals were exposed I'm sure. I was wearing underwear but I felt the skin of his penis on me and knew he was very close to penetrating me.
Yes, understand about Terri taking her time. I won't bump my posts up, I will make sure I wait until she responds. Thank you x
I do know with this encounter our genitals were exposed I'm sure. I was wearing underwear but I felt the skin of his penis on me and knew he was very close to penetrating me.
Yes, understand about Terri taking her time. I won't bump my posts up, I will make sure I wait until she responds. Thank you x
Hi again Jessie
I got confirmation from Terri that the likelihood of me having got something from doing erotic massages with my underwear on was very low. Several other doctors have also confirmed this. I also forgot to mention that I gave somebody a handjob 2 days prior to the outbreak. There was no genital to genital contact, but I may have touched my genitals myself about 20 minutes or so after the event. I have haemorrhoids and they were quite itchy. I used tissues to wipe away any semen after the occurrence. I am now thinking that there is a chance that I have transmitted the virus from my hands/fingers to myself. I don't know how likely this would be. I didn't notice any active lesions on him, but I did notice he had a lot of spots on his thigh. He went to the clinic and confirmed he had molluscum and it did look like this from what I do remember. What do you think?
I got confirmation from Terri that the likelihood of me having got something from doing erotic massages with my underwear on was very low. Several other doctors have also confirmed this. I also forgot to mention that I gave somebody a handjob 2 days prior to the outbreak. There was no genital to genital contact, but I may have touched my genitals myself about 20 minutes or so after the event. I have haemorrhoids and they were quite itchy. I used tissues to wipe away any semen after the occurrence. I am now thinking that there is a chance that I have transmitted the virus from my hands/fingers to myself. I don't know how likely this would be. I didn't notice any active lesions on him, but I did notice he had a lot of spots on his thigh. He went to the clinic and confirmed he had molluscum and it did look like this from what I do remember. What do you think?
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Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
