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Do I have herpes or not
20 years about I had a episode of a cold sore on my mouth in conjunction with severe vaginal irritation, swelling, itching/burning. No obvious blisters or sores, just looked like one big irritation. I had a culture test on the vaginal area, came back negative, over the next few months it happened again, went to my gyn dr. He visually diagnosed me with herpes. Later on I was married , had 3 kids and my husband never got anything, we never used protection, I only has one episode during our 15 year marriage that resembled the previous ones, but no sores or blisters on the mouth , just very irritated and burning/itching vaginally. Recently I am going through a divorce and very stressed about dating and dealing with telling someone. I requested my dr do a blood test to know the type since I have heard hsv1 has way less recurrent outbreaks. I had the herpeselect 1/2 IGG type specific test. It came back negative for both types. Hsv1 was 0.08 hsv2 was 0.10. I was shocked buy relieved. I recently had a episode I'd severe vaginal burning/itching, I took diflucan, but ended up going to the dr anyway because it didn't resolve. She examined me, said it looked very red and irritated, not like herpes though and tested for all other sti's which were negative. She believes it's a partially treated yeast infection and gave me 3 more diflucan pills. I told her about my past experience and recent negative test (July 2014) she said she doesn't believe this resembles herpes but also Said the blood test is not totally accurate in some people. I started researching more and read that some people never produce the antibodies the test looks for or carry a strain deficient in the gg part the test looks for. I can't let it go and am worried sick thst I am one of the rare cases. I dont know what to tell future partners and don't want to pass it on if I do indeed have it. I also had genotypeing assay by pcr as part of my routine pap in 2012 that was negative. Any advice or reassurance would be appreciated thanks
This discussion is related to Unusual wide spread cold sore outbreak.
This discussion is related to Unusual wide spread cold sore outbreak.
Congrats on your negative test. I figured this would be the case as well! Time to move forward.
Cantletgo: you describe my mentality and situation to the T. I have spoken in length with Terri Warren about this very issue (can view it at Westoverheights forum) and it basically comes down to no test is or will ever be 100% perfect. We just have the best we got. That's Terri's bottom line answer. We don't know why she has had a handful of patients never seroconvert via blood, there is no accurate explanation for this, but those this occured with did have noticeable outbreaks that would be very hard to misdiagnose visually.
The only thing you or I can do with our situation is swab any suspicious lesion and or bumps. I currently have a few PCR swabs at my disposal that I received from Terri's clinic that I would not hesitate to use if I encounter any more symptoms or lesions. If I herpes, it's the only method/way I'll be able to diagnose myself since I can't via blood.
In any case, I always have that doubt in the back of my minks but I live currently as if I don't have the virus.
Best of luck.
Cantletgo: you describe my mentality and situation to the T. I have spoken in length with Terri Warren about this very issue (can view it at Westoverheights forum) and it basically comes down to no test is or will ever be 100% perfect. We just have the best we got. That's Terri's bottom line answer. We don't know why she has had a handful of patients never seroconvert via blood, there is no accurate explanation for this, but those this occured with did have noticeable outbreaks that would be very hard to misdiagnose visually.
The only thing you or I can do with our situation is swab any suspicious lesion and or bumps. I currently have a few PCR swabs at my disposal that I received from Terri's clinic that I would not hesitate to use if I encounter any more symptoms or lesions. If I herpes, it's the only method/way I'll be able to diagnose myself since I can't via blood.
In any case, I always have that doubt in the back of my minks but I live currently as if I don't have the virus.
Best of luck.
I'm also sorry you had so many years thinking you had herpes, but glad for your negative test result. Good luck in working out the cause of your symptoms.
So I got the western blot results back yesterday. Negative for both hsv1 and hsv2 . So relieved. The only thing I can think of is that I have been battling alot of other health issues such as arthritis, joint , muscle pain , rashes , fatigue, I have. Even to several doctors, all agree that it is some type of autoimmune disease but can't seem to identify it, all my tests for arthritis and lupus always come back negative. At the time this last episode occur with the vaginal irritation and redness, I had a joint flare up and also ended up with a rash on my neck again. It always appears in the same spot when I get it. So next week I go in for allergy testing , still trying to find the root of these issues. It would have been nice to know that my blood tests were negative 17 years ago and saved myself alot of stress and mental anguish thinking I had herpes. I don't think people understand what that diagnosis can do to people mentally. I've read that some autoimmune diseases such as lupus can cause sores in the nose, mouth , and vagina, so I'm going to keep searching for what the cause of all of these random issues is. I also was tested for yeast, bv, all stds, strep a and b. All negative
Hi HowardH,
I understand that the sensitivity of the tests almost guarantee that, in a person who develops antibodies, false negative HSV2 results are extremely rare, unlike the up to 10% probability of HSV1 tests. However, these scenarios demonstrate that the test itself is somehow at fault and produces erroneous results. Any comments on negative results in a person who simply DOESN'T produce antibodies, where the test isn't faulty and the result isn't actually wrong, per se, but that the antibodies were never there to detect? As Bigtimeworried55 mentions above, Terri Warren has had in her clinic a handful of patients over the course of many years have this experience. The cause is unexplained. Would this anomaly support that when symptoms are present, even seemingly atypical ones, the HSV2 test isn't necessarily as accurate as assumed? Or do you still believe that test results, especially the western blot in particular, overrule symptoms? How can one ever be confident with their negative results when there is a possibility the results are only negative because they in fact do not, for whatever reason, make antibodies, and in turn will never get a positive result? I know this possibility is incredibly rare, but for someone with "symptoms," like myself, I can't help but think this is the answer to my longstanding issues. Your input on this is greatly appreciated. I know there are many other community members who struggle with and wonder about this very issue. Thank you.
I understand that the sensitivity of the tests almost guarantee that, in a person who develops antibodies, false negative HSV2 results are extremely rare, unlike the up to 10% probability of HSV1 tests. However, these scenarios demonstrate that the test itself is somehow at fault and produces erroneous results. Any comments on negative results in a person who simply DOESN'T produce antibodies, where the test isn't faulty and the result isn't actually wrong, per se, but that the antibodies were never there to detect? As Bigtimeworried55 mentions above, Terri Warren has had in her clinic a handful of patients over the course of many years have this experience. The cause is unexplained. Would this anomaly support that when symptoms are present, even seemingly atypical ones, the HSV2 test isn't necessarily as accurate as assumed? Or do you still believe that test results, especially the western blot in particular, overrule symptoms? How can one ever be confident with their negative results when there is a possibility the results are only negative because they in fact do not, for whatever reason, make antibodies, and in turn will never get a positive result? I know this possibility is incredibly rare, but for someone with "symptoms," like myself, I can't help but think this is the answer to my longstanding issues. Your input on this is greatly appreciated. I know there are many other community members who struggle with and wonder about this very issue. Thank you.
Ok, I went and got the western blot today at the Westover heights clinic. She said she really does not believe I have either, but in the rare case I do, it would be hsv1. Mostly she did the test so I can try to let go of the visual diagnosis I had in 1999. I will let you know in a few weeks! Thanks
The blood test for HSV2 is almost never falsely negative, unlike HSV1. Your negative blood test is essentially 100% evidence you don't have HSV2.
I agree a Western blot would sort it out once and for all. My prediction is it will show you don't have HSV2 and maybe not HSV1 either.
I agree a Western blot would sort it out once and for all. My prediction is it will show you don't have HSV2 and maybe not HSV1 either.
Thanks, I think that is what I will do. I plan on making a appointment today at the west over heights clinic to talk to someone there and find out how to get the WB. I need to put this thing to rest once and for all.
Curious to what Howard says here. These tests for herpes are highly sensitive and would/should pick up anitbodies if positively infected.
However, as mentioned, the WB is the gold standard for herpes blood testing because its far more accurate for HSV1 than the commercial available tests.
It's very rare for someone to not have positive antibodies for the virus yet still be positive. In such a scenario, you would have had obvious herpes lesions/symptoms that would swab positive. Not simple irritation of the genitals you describe.
I have also spoken to Terri Warren and in her 32+ years of practice she has had less than 10 people who were positive by swab for herpes but stayed negative via blood consistently and never seroconverted. However, those people had obvious herpes outbreaks confirmed positive by swab.
Bottom line, with the low frequency of symptoms you have and the nature of the symptoms you describe, having herpes seems like a long shot. Especially when coupled with negative herpes tests.
My advice, if you really want to confirm your HSV1 status or status in general, have a Western Blot done and live with that result. It's what I did and I rest easy knowing I have taken every blood test available, including the best, to properly diagnose me. If negative, live life with that mentality and that of being herpes free and not alarming partners of something you don't officially have.
That's my two cents.
However, as mentioned, the WB is the gold standard for herpes blood testing because its far more accurate for HSV1 than the commercial available tests.
It's very rare for someone to not have positive antibodies for the virus yet still be positive. In such a scenario, you would have had obvious herpes lesions/symptoms that would swab positive. Not simple irritation of the genitals you describe.
I have also spoken to Terri Warren and in her 32+ years of practice she has had less than 10 people who were positive by swab for herpes but stayed negative via blood consistently and never seroconverted. However, those people had obvious herpes outbreaks confirmed positive by swab.
Bottom line, with the low frequency of symptoms you have and the nature of the symptoms you describe, having herpes seems like a long shot. Especially when coupled with negative herpes tests.
My advice, if you really want to confirm your HSV1 status or status in general, have a Western Blot done and live with that result. It's what I did and I rest easy knowing I have taken every blood test available, including the best, to properly diagnose me. If negative, live life with that mentality and that of being herpes free and not alarming partners of something you don't officially have.
That's my two cents.
Hi gingerabby,
My understanding is that the type-specific tests only test for the gG protein and the Western Blot tests for a total of 14 different proteins, including the gG one, so even with a gG deficient strain, a Western Blot should pick up something from the other proteins, which is why it's considered the gold standard. Hopefully Howard can confirm or expound on this. I have a fairly extensive exchange with Terri Warren on the Herpes expert forum if you want additional information about this topic in particular. According to Terri, almost all HSV has the gG protein, but for the few strains that don't, the WB would pick up the rest. I'm also hoping that Howard can address people who don't produce any antibodies at all -- does that mean that NO proteins are detectable? I've been experiencing my own frustrations with the blood tests as well, and am curious about the minuscule portion of the population who doesn't produce antibodies of any sort. I don't quite understand what the difference is in proteins and antibodies, or if they are the same thing. I've never really found or gotten very good information on this site about the whole protein deficient/antibody development questions. Hope you can get a good response in your thread.
My understanding is that the type-specific tests only test for the gG protein and the Western Blot tests for a total of 14 different proteins, including the gG one, so even with a gG deficient strain, a Western Blot should pick up something from the other proteins, which is why it's considered the gold standard. Hopefully Howard can confirm or expound on this. I have a fairly extensive exchange with Terri Warren on the Herpes expert forum if you want additional information about this topic in particular. According to Terri, almost all HSV has the gG protein, but for the few strains that don't, the WB would pick up the rest. I'm also hoping that Howard can address people who don't produce any antibodies at all -- does that mean that NO proteins are detectable? I've been experiencing my own frustrations with the blood tests as well, and am curious about the minuscule portion of the population who doesn't produce antibodies of any sort. I don't quite understand what the difference is in proteins and antibodies, or if they are the same thing. I've never really found or gotten very good information on this site about the whole protein deficient/antibody development questions. Hope you can get a good response in your thread.
I was also curious about what the other person asked about how you are more certain it is definitely not hsv2? Is it the absence of breaking out or the lack of blisters . It has never looked like pictures I have seen on the Internet. I also wondered if you have ever heard that 2 percent of cases are a strain deficient in glycoprotein g that the test looks for? Sorry for so many questions
Hi HowardH, can you please elaborate on your finding that the poster "definitely doesn't have HSV2?" Is your opinion based solely on the negative blood test? Thanks.
Thank you , that is definitely reassuring. There is such a stigma with herpes, it's sad. I guess after thinking I had it for so long I can't get it out of my head and get over the paranoia that I could still have hsv1 genitally. Really does cause alot of psychological stress. I'm glad I found this site. I will try to relax now!
First and most important, you definitely don't have HSV2.
HSV1 is a bit uncertain. Probably you don't have it. Based on your description, your past episodes of genital irritation etc were atypical for herpes. And visual diagnosis of herpes, without lab testing, is often unreliable, even by top herpes experts -- so your doctor's diagnosis of your second episode doesn't mean much. And the negative HSV1 antibody test is important. Most likely those were just yeast infections.
The slight doubt remains because a few percent of people with HSV1 have false negative antibody tests.
I think you can safely go forward -- and into your new dating mode -- confident you don't have genital herpes. Or, in the slight chance you do, that transmission to partners is very unlikely -- for the reasons you state yourself (rare recurrent outbreaks of genital HSV1 and infrequent asymptomatic sheding of the virus).
I hope that helps. Best wishes for new romance -- and a happy new year!
HSV1 is a bit uncertain. Probably you don't have it. Based on your description, your past episodes of genital irritation etc were atypical for herpes. And visual diagnosis of herpes, without lab testing, is often unreliable, even by top herpes experts -- so your doctor's diagnosis of your second episode doesn't mean much. And the negative HSV1 antibody test is important. Most likely those were just yeast infections.
The slight doubt remains because a few percent of people with HSV1 have false negative antibody tests.
I think you can safely go forward -- and into your new dating mode -- confident you don't have genital herpes. Or, in the slight chance you do, that transmission to partners is very unlikely -- for the reasons you state yourself (rare recurrent outbreaks of genital HSV1 and infrequent asymptomatic sheding of the virus).
I hope that helps. Best wishes for new romance -- and a happy new year!
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Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
