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HSV or not HSV?
I have been reading some similar stories on this forum, so I apologize if redundant:
HERE IS MY TIMELINE:
Day 1: Kissed (on lips), received brief oral sex (10 minutes) and rubbed genitals with my new girlfriend but no penetration. I didn't notice any sores on her mouth. I have never had cold sores in my life before this encounter and had been tested in the past for herpes and negative for both 1 and 2.
Day 2: My genitals were throbbing in pain (burning) ---I hadn't had an ejaculation in months, so I chalked it up to a congested prostate (or prostatitis?). I went to walk-in clinic and they shot me up with antibiotics as a precaution even though I had no intercourse (go figure).
Day 4: I experienced muscle aches, fatigue and low-grade fever (possibly ORAL HSV-1 prodrome?), urinary urgency, massive anxiety.
Day 5-9: Massive anxiety, feeling unwell, urgency, burning continued.
Day 10: I experienced muscle aches, fatigue and low-grade fever again (possibly genital HSV-1 prodrome?) and burning genitals (head of penis appeared rougher and darker (more purple, with some tiny ballpoint pen sized red bumps here and there).
Day 11: Noticed 2-3 small raised lesions middle of penile shaft ---no itching but genitals still burning.
Day 12: Lesions turned into water blister that burst on its own (clear fluid) and I didn't have the chance to swab.
Day 13: Blister healed and disappeared leaving no scar.
For the next couple of months, felt ill and genital burning came and went. Sometimes I would wake up and notice small "ditzels" (small pink/reddish dots) on my penis that were flush with my penile skin (no fluid to squeeze out since they were small and flat).
ONE MONTH LATER, I noticed a raised bump (felt like a sebaceous cyst to me) on my lower lip line near the corner of my mouth but it disappeared in a couple of days with no scarring. It didn't break open or ooze but I did notice some dead skin flake off once it subsided and disappeared.
STILL FEELING ILL AND ANXIOUS THREE MONTHS LATER (fatigue, pulsating and slighting burning genitals, buttocks, rectum, back of legs, feet, suspicious bumps on chest, shoulder, belly, even the outside of my hand!) ---my entire body feel weird and under attack from something.
MY HSV IGG TESTS AT 3 MONTHS (4 SEPARATE TESTS EVERY COUPLE OF WEEKS) ARE:
HERPESELECT HSV1 = 0.10
HERPESELECT HSV2 = 0.07
I KEEP READING OTHERS ON THIS FORUM THAT HAVE NOT SEROCONVERTED IN OVER A YEAR OR HAVE YET TO SEROCONVERT, SO I AM EXTREMELY ANXIOUS. I GUESS I NEED TO WAIT FOR A LESION AND SWAB TO FIND OUT DEFINITIVELY. I WAS THE EPITOME OF HEALTH BEFORE THIS, SO I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS IS ANYTHING BUT HSV1 OR 2. I AM EVEN EXPERIENCING ELECTRIC SHOCKS AND PINS AND NEEDLES ON MY BUTT AND FEET AND OTHER STRANGE SENSATIONS INCLUDING LOWER BACK PAIN. I AM NOT GETTING ANYWHERE WITH THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS. ANY FEEDBACK FOLKS?
HERE IS MY TIMELINE:
Day 1: Kissed (on lips), received brief oral sex (10 minutes) and rubbed genitals with my new girlfriend but no penetration. I didn't notice any sores on her mouth. I have never had cold sores in my life before this encounter and had been tested in the past for herpes and negative for both 1 and 2.
Day 2: My genitals were throbbing in pain (burning) ---I hadn't had an ejaculation in months, so I chalked it up to a congested prostate (or prostatitis?). I went to walk-in clinic and they shot me up with antibiotics as a precaution even though I had no intercourse (go figure).
Day 4: I experienced muscle aches, fatigue and low-grade fever (possibly ORAL HSV-1 prodrome?), urinary urgency, massive anxiety.
Day 5-9: Massive anxiety, feeling unwell, urgency, burning continued.
Day 10: I experienced muscle aches, fatigue and low-grade fever again (possibly genital HSV-1 prodrome?) and burning genitals (head of penis appeared rougher and darker (more purple, with some tiny ballpoint pen sized red bumps here and there).
Day 11: Noticed 2-3 small raised lesions middle of penile shaft ---no itching but genitals still burning.
Day 12: Lesions turned into water blister that burst on its own (clear fluid) and I didn't have the chance to swab.
Day 13: Blister healed and disappeared leaving no scar.
For the next couple of months, felt ill and genital burning came and went. Sometimes I would wake up and notice small "ditzels" (small pink/reddish dots) on my penis that were flush with my penile skin (no fluid to squeeze out since they were small and flat).
ONE MONTH LATER, I noticed a raised bump (felt like a sebaceous cyst to me) on my lower lip line near the corner of my mouth but it disappeared in a couple of days with no scarring. It didn't break open or ooze but I did notice some dead skin flake off once it subsided and disappeared.
STILL FEELING ILL AND ANXIOUS THREE MONTHS LATER (fatigue, pulsating and slighting burning genitals, buttocks, rectum, back of legs, feet, suspicious bumps on chest, shoulder, belly, even the outside of my hand!) ---my entire body feel weird and under attack from something.
MY HSV IGG TESTS AT 3 MONTHS (4 SEPARATE TESTS EVERY COUPLE OF WEEKS) ARE:
HERPESELECT HSV1 = 0.10
HERPESELECT HSV2 = 0.07
I KEEP READING OTHERS ON THIS FORUM THAT HAVE NOT SEROCONVERTED IN OVER A YEAR OR HAVE YET TO SEROCONVERT, SO I AM EXTREMELY ANXIOUS. I GUESS I NEED TO WAIT FOR A LESION AND SWAB TO FIND OUT DEFINITIVELY. I WAS THE EPITOME OF HEALTH BEFORE THIS, SO I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS IS ANYTHING BUT HSV1 OR 2. I AM EVEN EXPERIENCING ELECTRIC SHOCKS AND PINS AND NEEDLES ON MY BUTT AND FEET AND OTHER STRANGE SENSATIONS INCLUDING LOWER BACK PAIN. I AM NOT GETTING ANYWHERE WITH THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS. ANY FEEDBACK FOLKS?
It will be in your utmost best interest to simply forget all about herpes. Not only do you have evidence that conclusively shows you do not have herpes, it is an insignificant virus for the majority of people that have it and not worth the anguish you are putting yourself through.
Bigtime,
I hope that you are doing well.
Regarding swabbing of oral lesions/cold sores ---do I need to get fluid (pop open a sore?) for the swab? I had a boil/cystic-acne like sore on the edge of my upper lip and I was afraid to pop it [it only lasted 3 days, like you, so I hope that it wasn't herpetic since this has been the only major sore on my face]. Did you swab using PCR or culture for your oral lesions?
Every time I notice any small pimple now (nose, cheek, etc. I get paranoid. How does one differentiate between HSV and regular pimples?
Take care
I hope that you are doing well.
Regarding swabbing of oral lesions/cold sores ---do I need to get fluid (pop open a sore?) for the swab? I had a boil/cystic-acne like sore on the edge of my upper lip and I was afraid to pop it [it only lasted 3 days, like you, so I hope that it wasn't herpetic since this has been the only major sore on my face]. Did you swab using PCR or culture for your oral lesions?
Every time I notice any small pimple now (nose, cheek, etc. I get paranoid. How does one differentiate between HSV and regular pimples?
Take care
Thank you for taking the time to respond for your extremely valuable input. Well worded and overall comforting. Blessings to you.
I can relate to your situation and many of your symptoms. Experiencing a blister of any kind on your genitals is a red flag and one couldn't blame you for thinking this is herpes related.
However, use me as an example. I'm well over a year from exposure having tested via IGG more times than a normal person will test in 10 lifetimes. All negative. My lesions, including my sole blister was swabbed negative for herpes as well. Outside of one doctor (she was unsure), multiple doctors that saw my lesions ruled out herpes almost immediately based on presentation. All evidence against herpes.
Listen, I hear you, I know my body and it was clearly being invaded by some virus, but the tests are the best we have. My Western Blot was negative and so will yours I can assure you. Then what? Don't mentally do this to yourself like I did because it's a path that's very dark.
Terri Warren said she's never seen somebody seroconvert after 1 year post exposure. Not once in 30+ years of practice. She's had about less than 10 swab positive for HSV1 but negative via blood tests. Bottom line, if positive, you will never receive a + antibody test if negative at 6 months via WB and IGG after a year. You just won't and it simply won't happen ever. It's true because I'm an example of this.
Do I believe I have herpes? I tell myself everyday to trust the tests and trust my doctors. I still experience odd lesions on my lip line but my only option is to swab when this presents itself and to be honest I don't care to anymore. Unless I have a distinct blister or lesion again, I plan on resuming my life with the notion I DO NOT have herpes, albeit with low confidence, but I'll live this way.
Moral of my long rant. Odds are you won't test positive at this point via IGG now or ever. Your WB will be negative. If you had lip lesions, swab them (I have in the past). Swabs will be your best bet. If ever positive via swab, you would be on an island with very very few people where this has been the case considering your negative blood tests. HSV1 is just more complex to catch then HSV2.
Jumpin, move on after the WB. If you're like me the results will calm you down for a week maybe two, then a lesion will occur and the craziness will all start again. If negative, live your life. You don't have herpes. Just swab in the future.
Good luck and live your life.
However, use me as an example. I'm well over a year from exposure having tested via IGG more times than a normal person will test in 10 lifetimes. All negative. My lesions, including my sole blister was swabbed negative for herpes as well. Outside of one doctor (she was unsure), multiple doctors that saw my lesions ruled out herpes almost immediately based on presentation. All evidence against herpes.
Listen, I hear you, I know my body and it was clearly being invaded by some virus, but the tests are the best we have. My Western Blot was negative and so will yours I can assure you. Then what? Don't mentally do this to yourself like I did because it's a path that's very dark.
Terri Warren said she's never seen somebody seroconvert after 1 year post exposure. Not once in 30+ years of practice. She's had about less than 10 swab positive for HSV1 but negative via blood tests. Bottom line, if positive, you will never receive a + antibody test if negative at 6 months via WB and IGG after a year. You just won't and it simply won't happen ever. It's true because I'm an example of this.
Do I believe I have herpes? I tell myself everyday to trust the tests and trust my doctors. I still experience odd lesions on my lip line but my only option is to swab when this presents itself and to be honest I don't care to anymore. Unless I have a distinct blister or lesion again, I plan on resuming my life with the notion I DO NOT have herpes, albeit with low confidence, but I'll live this way.
Moral of my long rant. Odds are you won't test positive at this point via IGG now or ever. Your WB will be negative. If you had lip lesions, swab them (I have in the past). Swabs will be your best bet. If ever positive via swab, you would be on an island with very very few people where this has been the case considering your negative blood tests. HSV1 is just more complex to catch then HSV2.
Jumpin, move on after the WB. If you're like me the results will calm you down for a week maybe two, then a lesion will occur and the craziness will all start again. If negative, live your life. You don't have herpes. Just swab in the future.
Good luck and live your life.
Jump- I'm not a doctor. I cannot clairvoyantly tell you what is causing your symptoms.
Based on the data you provided, which were multiple ELISA IgG results, you DO NOT HAVE any evidence whatsoever to believe that you have HSV1 or HSV2. For you to believe that you do is unreasonable and would be evidence of a psychiatric issue, not herpes. This is unless there are other facts including sexual contact that you haven't disclosed which might change the results in the future.
Biokit will only confirm HSV2, not HSV1. WB can do both. However, with the tests you have already run, you are simply not except in the most vanishingly improbable of circumstances, infected with either HSV1 or HSV2. Got it?
I have not heard of anyone's stories about being negative and having a lesion swabbed and having HSV. I am on the other hand conversant with the time it takes for positive results to show up AFTER an outbreak or after exposure.
It is most probable that these people experiencing a PCR positive on a lesion after lots of negative results suffered a primary outbreak, and it is ONLY after this point (for someone with such an episode) that the tests on blood antibodies can confirm. PCR can find the virus immediately from the lesion as it is a DNA test. The antibodies arise over time after infection.
Based on the data you provided, which were multiple ELISA IgG results, you DO NOT HAVE any evidence whatsoever to believe that you have HSV1 or HSV2. For you to believe that you do is unreasonable and would be evidence of a psychiatric issue, not herpes. This is unless there are other facts including sexual contact that you haven't disclosed which might change the results in the future.
Biokit will only confirm HSV2, not HSV1. WB can do both. However, with the tests you have already run, you are simply not except in the most vanishingly improbable of circumstances, infected with either HSV1 or HSV2. Got it?
I have not heard of anyone's stories about being negative and having a lesion swabbed and having HSV. I am on the other hand conversant with the time it takes for positive results to show up AFTER an outbreak or after exposure.
It is most probable that these people experiencing a PCR positive on a lesion after lots of negative results suffered a primary outbreak, and it is ONLY after this point (for someone with such an episode) that the tests on blood antibodies can confirm. PCR can find the virus immediately from the lesion as it is a DNA test. The antibodies arise over time after infection.
Will do in the future. My GP / dermatologist are unavailable on Saturday (when I noticed symptoms), so I swabbed myself with kit provided by Terri Warren's clinic and will be mailing it over for analysis.
Don't rely on any one person's atypical stories. Only pay attention to the science about how herpes behaves, and how it affects the vast majority of infected people.
I cannot imagine that you have actually had a herpes outbreak. But if you think so, see a doctor ASAP (within a day or two) so the diagnosis can be confirmed by professional exam and testing of lesion(s) for the virus. (If there is no lesion like a blister or sore from which a test can be taken, then it isn't herpes!)
No more comments from me.
I cannot imagine that you have actually had a herpes outbreak. But if you think so, see a doctor ASAP (within a day or two) so the diagnosis can be confirmed by professional exam and testing of lesion(s) for the virus. (If there is no lesion like a blister or sore from which a test can be taken, then it isn't herpes!)
No more comments from me.
I thought I was out of the woods (after 4 months) until I experienced what I believe to be was a recurring outbreak the other day (that depressed the heck out of me). Believe me, I don't want this dehumanizing disease, but when I see comments from posters like Bigtimeworried55 and others who have been experiencing symptoms and testing negative over the course of two years, you begin to wonder. I just don't want to spread this to anyone else.
How many times are you going to need to hear the same message, and from how many different users, before you accept the truth and science-based reassurance you have had? It's as if you're hoping someone will finally tell you that you in fact have HSV2. Instead, why haven't we see something like "Hey, Folks, that's really good news! I can move on now. Thanks!"
Sorry for multiple questions ---did you experience constant fatigue for a few months following your purported initial outbreak? I did and lost 15 lbs, as well. If this isn't HSV, can't fathom what other virus this could be that it taking over one's body.
Worryman287, don't mean to pry, but just curious ---did you experience classic genital HSV symptoms (flu like symptoms, burning genitals, then lesions on genitals, etc.?). Have you had any recurrences?
Thanks, worryman297. I just get freaked out when I read posts like the one from joe239 (quite a story) and a couple of others...and other experts who discount the accuracy of igg ELISA for HSV-1.
I didnt bother with the Western Blot after 3 Low IgG like you. Afer a while I came to realize that my burning sensations(evn in the genitals) were in my head. I haven had any oral outbreaks after that but the thing is anything that lasts 1/2-3 days esp for the first time isnt herpes. Burning feet? please relax that is completely unrelated. You are overthinking this but this wont get you amywhere WB will.
Worryman297, have you had issues with burning feet? I have been having pretty constant burning feet and brief foot spasms for over 2 months now. Another fear that this is HSV-related (nerves under attack or damaged)?
Thanks. Did your WB come out negative? Have you had any other oral outbreaks recently?
Hi I had the same mouth lesions and my gp and dermatologist told me there are many other everyday conditions of mouth area lesions. Only thing to do is to wait for your WB which will be as conclusive as it can get.
---any thoughts on the oral lesions I experienced (unfortunately weren't swabbed)?
1. raised bump on my lower lip line near the corner of my mouth 3 weeks post exposure but it disappeared in a couple of days with no scarring. It didn't break open or ooze but I did notice some dead skin flake off once it subsided and disappeared.
2. 2 identical horizontal razor cuts on lip (same side as lesion, above).
1. raised bump on my lower lip line near the corner of my mouth 3 weeks post exposure but it disappeared in a couple of days with no scarring. It didn't break open or ooze but I did notice some dead skin flake off once it subsided and disappeared.
2. 2 identical horizontal razor cuts on lip (same side as lesion, above).
Thanks, txr890. I greatly appreciate your advice. I will seek out the Biokit.
I am more concerned about HSV-1 (given the unprotected mouth to genital exposure) which doesn't test as accurately as HSV-2 on Herpeselect ELISA testing. There are quite a few posters that have been testing for over a year and never came up positive for HSV-1 until they swabbed a suspicious lesion or area of their body. I did swab the lesions and genital area and will send this off to be PCR tested. I also drew blood for a WB test, so, hopefully, in a few weeks, I will have some updated information.
I am more concerned about HSV-1 (given the unprotected mouth to genital exposure) which doesn't test as accurately as HSV-2 on Herpeselect ELISA testing. There are quite a few posters that have been testing for over a year and never came up positive for HSV-1 until they swabbed a suspicious lesion or area of their body. I did swab the lesions and genital area and will send this off to be PCR tested. I also drew blood for a WB test, so, hopefully, in a few weeks, I will have some updated information.
ok, if you want to be sure, get a Biokit.
However, understand that your IgG results are saying you do not have HSV2. At this stage, these results are almost conclusive and certain.
People here are not physicians equipped to tell you what is wrong with you...they can only advise you based upon information you provide, and the info you have provided is incredibly STRONGLY (conclusively) saying that you do not have HSV2 or 1.
A biokit will tell you in 10 minutes + or - on HSV2. Another IgG test will tell you pretty much the same thing. These tests are only equivocal between 1.1 and 3.5 scores; i have posted a resource on this forum for people in that category, referencing NIH's study on the frequency that equivocal positives are confirmed by Biokit and WB. Feel free to take a look, but even at 1.1-1.5, these only confirm around 10% of the time; below 1.0 and down in the weeds of .08 where you are, I cannot imagine that it is better than 1 in a million that the test is false negative.
Maybe you have HPV or something else, but according to the test results, you do not have HSV1 or HSV2
However, understand that your IgG results are saying you do not have HSV2. At this stage, these results are almost conclusive and certain.
People here are not physicians equipped to tell you what is wrong with you...they can only advise you based upon information you provide, and the info you have provided is incredibly STRONGLY (conclusively) saying that you do not have HSV2 or 1.
A biokit will tell you in 10 minutes + or - on HSV2. Another IgG test will tell you pretty much the same thing. These tests are only equivocal between 1.1 and 3.5 scores; i have posted a resource on this forum for people in that category, referencing NIH's study on the frequency that equivocal positives are confirmed by Biokit and WB. Feel free to take a look, but even at 1.1-1.5, these only confirm around 10% of the time; below 1.0 and down in the weeds of .08 where you are, I cannot imagine that it is better than 1 in a million that the test is false negative.
Maybe you have HPV or something else, but according to the test results, you do not have HSV1 or HSV2
Life,
Last night I experienced what I believe was a recurring outbreak ---extremely feverish, frequent urination and burning/throbbing penis during the night and into the early hours of the morning. This morning when I woke up I noticed two red, flat lesions on my shaft (close to the area where purported initial outbreak occurred 4 months ago), one larger than the other but not fluid filled and tended to disappear when stretching the skin. Both are slowly fading away. From what I have read, this sounds like a classic recurring HSV outbreak. In your experience, does this sound like recurring HSV? If not, what else could it possibly be?
Thanks,
Last night I experienced what I believe was a recurring outbreak ---extremely feverish, frequent urination and burning/throbbing penis during the night and into the early hours of the morning. This morning when I woke up I noticed two red, flat lesions on my shaft (close to the area where purported initial outbreak occurred 4 months ago), one larger than the other but not fluid filled and tended to disappear when stretching the skin. Both are slowly fading away. From what I have read, this sounds like a classic recurring HSV outbreak. In your experience, does this sound like recurring HSV? If not, what else could it possibly be?
Thanks,
Life, I just got back my 16 week post exposure test results and they are as follows:
HSV1 = 0.08
HSV2 = 0.06
As you can see, consistently low negative. I am pretty confident that I don't have HSV2 by now given the superior accuracy of this test for this strain but I am still not confident that I don't have HSV1 either orally and/or genitally since the test misses a good number of cases for HSV1. I do plan to take the Western Blot for a little more peace of mind.
My questions:
(1) Do you know the % of cases where negative HSV1 IGG end up with a positive HSV1 Western Blot?
(2) Orally, small whiteheads or white pus filled pimples on chin or on cheek or two horizontal small razor-like cuts on upper lip ---sound like cold sores to you?
(3) I have noticed after experiencing stress, anxiety, panic attack, I feel a sensation in my genitals and later on in the day notice some very faint, flat (don't look like they are fluid-filled) pink spots on my penis shaft (3-4). They go away the next day usually. Very strange. Recall that I initially had some lesions on my penis over a week following my exposure that formed a blister or blisters ---are these the same just in a recurrent, milder stage brought to the surface of the penis once again as a result of stress or exhaustion?
Thanks in advance.
HSV1 = 0.08
HSV2 = 0.06
As you can see, consistently low negative. I am pretty confident that I don't have HSV2 by now given the superior accuracy of this test for this strain but I am still not confident that I don't have HSV1 either orally and/or genitally since the test misses a good number of cases for HSV1. I do plan to take the Western Blot for a little more peace of mind.
My questions:
(1) Do you know the % of cases where negative HSV1 IGG end up with a positive HSV1 Western Blot?
(2) Orally, small whiteheads or white pus filled pimples on chin or on cheek or two horizontal small razor-like cuts on upper lip ---sound like cold sores to you?
(3) I have noticed after experiencing stress, anxiety, panic attack, I feel a sensation in my genitals and later on in the day notice some very faint, flat (don't look like they are fluid-filled) pink spots on my penis shaft (3-4). They go away the next day usually. Very strange. Recall that I initially had some lesions on my penis over a week following my exposure that formed a blister or blisters ---are these the same just in a recurrent, milder stage brought to the surface of the penis once again as a result of stress or exhaustion?
Thanks in advance.
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You are reading content posted in the Herpes Community
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
