Is this genital and oral HSV1?

[DiDiva]

Hi everyone. I have a real mystery. Been reading posts (loads of info on here which is great) but finally decided to ask my questions. Warning - long story coming! Sorry for being detailed and graphic but I'm guessing more info, not less, will help you all.  Having trouble getting a diagnosis and figuring out what the heck is going on with my body!

I had a brief encounter with a man - vaginal and me giving him oral sex - for a short time.  It was not full sex, more like fooling around a bit and then it stopped - but there was unprotected vaginal and oral insertion of his penis (for maybe 10 thrusts and maybe 30 seconds of oral)  this happened two or three times during the course of the night.  Then the same thing happened the week after. Then the fun began.

Nearly two weeks after I got internal vaginal pain (like bad period pain) and discharge for a couple of days and then the next day came extreme extreme extreme itching and swelling and pain of the vagina/vulva. Went to the doc who said it looked like a very bad yeast infection and gave me meds. Discharge got so bad that it was running out, so not clumpy.  Next day it was sore to pee and got bad chills and fever and night sweats and was very very sick for 3 days and nights. But I was away from home and it was a weekend so couldn't easily get to a doc. During this time I developed some papercuts down either side of the folds on the outside of my vagina entrance and a raw spot inside.  I suffered on for nearly 2 weeks until things cleared up.

Now before the vagina symptoms started I had a red raw patch on my lip which was wouldn't heal, but didn't think too much about it although I had noticed it as being different but thought maybe a bad case of chapped lip or something.  When it did start to look and feel better or healed then is started again soon after.  Then after the vagina symptoms had started i then got what looked like a very shallow blister type bump next to this raw patch.  It didn't burst or go yellow, but just kinda dried up and then was just like dry chapped area on lip.  I also had a very sore raw scratchy throat which was red and inflamed.

Everything healed but went for std check anyway and everything came back normal.  I asked about herpes and told it would be round blisters that burst not long open cuts which is yeast.  BUT here's my problem.  I've been sick ever since.  Get a few days where I have no vaginal problems and then it starts again -internal pain,feels of clit/urethra is swollen and pressured, very painful papercuts in folds and next to clit, itching, burning.  Also happens on buttocks and internal thighs with sharp stinging and then one, two or maybe 4 red spots - but they don't burst, just sort of dry up and then heal. Burning skin feeling and a hot feeling at bottom of back.  Get hot red sunburn like rash on buttocks and thighs with a flushed very hot face and sometimes shivers - but this is lessening each time it happens. No further blister on my mouth but often have red raw patches then peel skin a bit and eventually dry up and heal.. Lips feel burny and itchy too when this happens. Also get raw sore throat which turns into mucus chesty cough.  Been back to doc and given vaginal yeast treatment again (internal and oral tablets) and then 2 different antibiotics to 'kill anything that may be lurking'.

(thanks if you're still reading!) So now, I'm in the position that I have been very ill from this encounter with this guy (who says he was clean for stds, but does get sweat/fungal rashes - I'm now thinking this is actually herpes and not sweat rashes??!?).  I've been treated for yeast and with antibiotics, but I still get these symptoms.  Got a rapid HSV2 test done which was negative and waiting results of igg. In the meantime the doc has agreed to let me try a month of acyclovir (?) to see if it helps.

Sooooo my big question is can I have gotten genital and oral hsv1 from this guy's penis, due to his 'sweat rash'.  Read genital outbreaks are rare for hsv1 but seriously, I have had sooooo much pain and discomfort - I knew straight away something major was happening - not just a yeast infection. And if it is hsv1, why the heck am I getting frequent outbreaks like this?  I've read it shouldn't reoccur as often but been tested for yeast and bacteria and stds etc and all was clear, but they did still treat it just in case the swab missed the yeast (swabbed once for herpes but was days later and was clearing up - another time they wouldn't swab as only small cuts and no blisters in vagina area - helpful eh?)

Any thoughts people?  Hsv1?  Fungal (although unlikely from what I've read?)  Anything else spring to mind if IGG comes back negative for both? I've probably left out loads of info (sorry, been kinda going with this for months now - I forget what is normal now!) but will answer queries to fill in any gaps if needed to help you out with 'diagnosis'.  Cheers everyone for reading and here's hoping you've some ideas to put me out of this misery. (by the way I hadn't been with any other man in nearly 2 years and NEVER had any problems vaginally or orally like this before. Truly fed up with the cycle and feeling crap all the time - need some pain free time please! Got the point i don't even care what it is now - i just need to know!!!!  Arrghhhh.  Thanks guys.

[DiDiva]

Oh yeah, groin and neck glands go up and sore as well as one under my right arm.  Trying to be upbeat here, but please help with any idea - my life has been miserable for months :(

[gracefromHHP]

odds are this isn't genital herpes going on. Symptoms as you describe for this long would be very atypical for herpes.  Honestly I wouldn't even try the acyclovir but be seen every time you have symptoms and get cultures for herpes.

are you seeing a gyn or your regular doctor?

if you continue to culture negative for yeast and bacterial infections, might be time to consider things like a wheat allergy or something like that that can cause oral and genital issues.  

did you get tested for gonorrhea and chlamydia too?

grace

[DiDiva]

Hey, thanks for replying.  Yeah I agree, doesn't fit the normal description of genital hsv1 by having frequent outbreaks - but that's what we're looking at cause all other stds were negative including gon and chla.  Doc thought it was hsv2 due the extent of pain and frequency but was just producing long cuts in vagina area with the blistery type spots on the buttocks and thighs - but the rapid test was negative so by default it must be type 1.   Been seen lots when having symptoms with no bacteria or yeast.  Def don't have a wheat allergy.  I have thought maybe a bad infection but cause it completely goes and then comes back a week or so later then it can't by - surely an infection wouldn't clear up without treatment, that's more viral behaviour isn't it?  Seeing reg doc at minute but after igg comes back and a month of tablets,if no better then will be sent to gyn or dermatologist (which would you recommend?).  Taking 2 tablets a day.  I guess this needs to be at regular intervals, how important is it for them to be exactly 12 hours apart?  Thanks so much for the reply.  Kinda stressed out now about all this.

[DiDiva]

Hey in addition to my previous post here  (hope I gave you the info you needed) i was thinking, is there any other genital viral infections that you can catch from a guy's penis (as he didn't give me oral sex, just me to him, so has to be from penis)?  I've read a bit about mono and ebv - but can this be transfered from a penis to a vaginal and to a mouth?  If so, what are the symptoms and treatment (cure?) cause i can't really find info on genital infection of these - if they do exist?  Maybe mrsa? Also, if the guy had a 'sweat rash' is that fungal?  If so, can this be passed on to vagina and mouth and cause these symptoms  (saw one post where HHH said no but surely it's contagious?)....long shot i know, especially as the symptoms are so severe, come and go, and have already been treated for yeast infection - but i'm kinda really desperate now and looking at ANY possibility other than gential and oral hsv1.  Thanks a lot.  

Oh and also, I was looking after an infant for a few weeks when i had all these symptoms and they broke out with painful blisters all over the tongue and two strips of blisters on the buttocks that scabbed over - you can imagine my horror now as i'm worried i passed on hsv1 - can kissing games and blowing raspberries on thighs and lower belly button transfer the virus through a babies thin skin?  Doc said it was a 'viral infection' but I didn't ask specifically about herpes.....far too frightened ( I am a terrible person I know, you don't need to tell me - I've lost lots of sleep over this)  Just adds more weight to the argument that this is hsv don't you think?  By the way I'm well angry that herpes isn't a routine test - i know it's down to money - but seriously - it's really really needed!!!!  Imagine how much emotional stress and heartache would be avoided?  Thanks a lot for your help.  You'll definitely be rewarded for all your help to people on here - i've seen how many posts you've made to help folk.  Wish you'd talk to the doctors and 'train' them how to be with their patients, lol!

[gracefromHHP]

I'd stop the acyclovir. it's going to interfere with you getting an accurate lesion culture of new symptoms when you get them. Honestly you want to get symptoms so you can get them cultured to rule out herpes for once and for all.

I recommend the gyn first. if they are stumped, dermatologist is the next best step.

[DiDiva]

Hey again, thanks for taking the time to reply again.  I know what you're saying but to be honest I wanna stick with the tablets for a month - the possibility of having a period of no syptmoms is just too nice to not try.  Obviously if it does nothing then I'll stop and go back to swabs.  However are swabs not just accurate only a third of the time or something? so even negative ones may not actually be negative?  Seems like not great odds to me to get an accurate swab so will try to get relief from tablets.  fingers crossed.  

Can I get some clarity with a few of my burning questions please and then i'll stop taking up your time (there are more worthy people on here that will need your help too - sorry to be a burden)

1) Are there any other viral infections that can come from a penis and infect a vagina and mouth?
2) Does herpes always show the same symptoms in the same person or can they get a rash, then razor burn, then blisters, then cuts? So it changes with each outbreak?  Hope this makes sense.
3) What about mono and ebv in the gentials from sex?
4) Can a baby get hsv1 on the mouth and buttocks from play kissing etc
5) Can bacterial or fungal infections be transerfered via sex?
6) Can bacterial or fungal infections go away and then return without any treatment or is this only viral behaviour?
7) Can oral herpes present as red raw patches on the lip with open slits and peeling skin (sort of metalic taste you know?) instead of a blister?

Thank you so much for your help with these final poitns. D.  Oh and how long does it take for acycloivr to start working so I know if symtpoms are def not herpes?  Thanks a lot Grace.

[gracefromHHP]

the accuracy is increased greatly if they are pcr swabs for herpes and not just viral cultures. same as if they are done within 48 hours of the appearance of symptoms, they are more likely to be accurate.

you'll feel better within a few days of starting antivirals if any of this is herpes.

[DiDiva]

Thanks.  Only culture swabs near me.  Any thoughts on the other points I asked?  Would really help ease the 'wonder' even if you tell me bad news :(  Thanks, then I will leave you in peace I promise.  Really appreciate having had someone knowledgeable to ask these questions to.

[DiDiva]

Grace you were right!  (bet you're not surprised)  But now, this horrific and very painful mystery continues.  My IGG was negative for both 1 & 2 (both well under 0.90).  So it looks like from an igg and a rapid test for hsv2 - that I have no herpes!  Which I know should be great news, and it is, but now the questions in my last post are so important now. What on earth did i catch from this guy.  And I am totally 100% sure I got an infection from him - no doubt whatsoever at all.  It was hell on earth.  And still is.  Although you might not be able to tell me what it is, can you tell me other than herpes, hpv and hiv, is there any other stds (or infections passed via penis that aren't classed as an std) that isn't curable?  I suppose i kinda wanna have a bit of relief that if I know whatever this terribly painful infection is, that it can be cured - when i find out what it is.  Thanks.  Recap on main issues in case you have any ideas cause reg doc doesn't know and is sending me to gyn but could take ages - just worried that damage will be done or something while waiting to figure out what this is.  I'm in so much pain and uncomfortable.  

Lots of outer vagina swelling redness with intense itch, pain peeing and loads of thin discharge on first infection but not now.  Recuring now - Burning, itching, swelling feeling of urethra clit and pelvic area inside, odd flash of hot sunburn rash on thighs and buttocks, painful long lesions on vagina, itchy sore red bumps/blisters on buttocks and thighs, fever with chills, nodes swollen, mouth lips red raw and blistery, red painful scratchy throat.  These are not present all the time together, they all come and go but really only have a few days where nothing is going on.  

What is this infection?  I can't go on anymore like this. Any ideas at all people, so i can at least start asking the docs the right sort of questions to get them to test for stuff.  All stds where clear including gon, chla, tric, hiv, yeast and bv.  Any other stds that are more rare and not generally tested for, which could be a possibility? Thanks a heap.  I NEED to sort out this mystery so I can get on with my life!!!!!

[DiDiva]

Oh and have a burning red itchy rash around anus as well now, sore to touch and it's kind of wet - almost like a burn would be.  not nice.  any ideas and feedback to this mystery infection?  I'm at a complete dead end now - but in so much PAIN!

[gracefromHHP]

best you can do is to continue to be seen by your gyn to try to get to the bottom of it all. call tuesday and schedule a return appointment and go from there.

[DiDiva]

Hey. Saw gyn and had full exam and isn't sure at all but thinks, due to all stds being negative, that I got bv from intercourse, which quickly developed into PID (or from other bacteria due to intercourse) which caused the swelling pain and discharge, which triggered lichen to start, causing the lesions, burn and itch.  Plausible?  Seems like a lot of coincidences to me, but it's all I got!  (just read post about girl with similar symptoms who ended up positive for hsv2 via swab despite repeated negative blood tests, so herpes is still a thought with me....wish I could let it go already!)

[gracefromHHP]

I hate bv far more than I could ever hate my herpes! It's far more annoying and can cause issues.  glad you are getting better answers even if they are slow coming.

[DiDiva]

Really Grace!?!?!!?  You hate bv more than herpes? WHY?  It's not an std or incurable or contagious, so how come you hate it more?  Do you get bv a lot?  What causes it for you?  I find it all very weird.  Can bv honestly cause major issues such as PID - I thought that was a result of untreated stds.  In your experience do you honestly think bv could cause PID in 2 weeks to cause internal pain and swelling, swollen outer vagina, burning, severe itching, loads of thin discharge and llong open cuts? I've read you generally don't get any syptmonms at all and it solves by itself so most don't even know they have it.  And then for bv to trigger lichen, which they are saying the recurring symptoms are which are far less intense than the first episode....mmmmm?  I don't buy it myself....can't belive that from one encounter i get bv, pid, lichen and yeast and an allergic reaction - saying the symptoms are a combination of all those - more plausable it's hsv if you ask me - but no positive test yet.

I've read a few people on here testing positive through a culture swab but negative on a blood test for herpes, even after 4 months, how often does this happen? Also  Internal exam at gyn showed fluid in pelvis and abrasion on cervix (cells coming from inside i think she said) what does that mean?  Is this a sign of std/infection?  Thanks.  The mystery isn't solved yet but maybe i'm getting closer.  Can't wait to be able to post to you and tell what the end result of all this is!  Hopefully soon!!!!!!  Argh!

[gracefromHHP]

My herpes is a pain in the butt - literally even sometimes but I can easily control it with a pill or two a day and it rarely makes its presence known to me. I had bv almost non-stop for 4 years. It caused my herpes to reoccur frequently. It caused damage to my skin in my genital area. It caused me to itch and have pain far more than my herpes ever did. I've had to avoid sex because of bv more than I ever had because of my herpes and I used to have hsv2 recurrences 20x/year!!  I've never had to make extra trips to the doctor because of my herpes ( once I was diagnosed of course ) but I lived in the gyn's office for 3 years because of bv!!   I still get it at the drop of a hat and had to give up receiving unprotected oral sex because otherwise I get bv again. herpes can't hold a candle to bv for me!!!  

your gyn is certainly going to have to do a lot more testing for you. did they schedule follow up appointments? have you had an ultrasound yet?

[DiDiva]

God you've been through it. You must have been so fed up and stressed. Had no idea bv would cause that many issues. Everything i read says you hardly ever even notice you have it so what's the deal with that?  Was the damage to your skin caused by lesions from the bv or lesions from the herpes which was set off by the bv?  And what type of damage is it? (sorry to ask personal questions but this is hugely helpful) I have like long hard ridged scars where the big open lesions first were.  How do the symptoms of herpes differ from that of bv if they can be similar.  How do you distinguish between the two?  You must know your body very well now!

I've had a day to think about it all and unfortunately I'm still believing it's herpes :(  Will just need to go back for another appointment when I can and see what they say. First I need to go through the treatment they've given me or they won't try anything else, so it could be a bit of a wait.  Have to rule everything else out first I think.  Just too unbelievable that I would be sooooo sick with awful stuff going on with the genital area, and fever, chills etc etc, 2 weeks after new partner, for it just to have been bv to then trigger lichen. I was in terrible pain so just don't buy it.  Too far out for me to accept that.

Couple of questions if that's cool
How often do people test negative on bloods for hsv if they actually test positive on a swab?
How did you finally get rid of bv?  
Can bv cause really bad swelling of the vagina inside and out?
Does the inital herpes outbreak causethe whole vaginal to swell and overall senstiive pain or is it only the blisters/cuts that are sore?

Thanks for this post grace, it has been really helpful.

[gracefromHHP]

less than 5% of folks don't test accurately on the blood tests we currently offer. It happens but not a lot.

I got rid of bv with avoiding sex, treating it regularly and also started fem dophilus by jarrow ( a probiotic for women proven to colonize the urogenital tract ).  

yes, the bv can cause swelling, redness, irritation etc.

follow up as needed until you get better answers! be seen monthly if need be.

[DiDiva]

Monthly!  I wish.  More like every week, seems to always be something going on!  Either internal pain, outer burning, itching, lesions, hot rash on bum and things with itchy red spots, burning raw lips, sore throat, swollen glands - the list goes on ;( Thanks a lot. Very useful. Will let you know outcome when I get it.  Probably in about a year at this rate. Fed up.

[Birka123]

DiDiva, I know exactly how you feel...been getting very similar genital symptoms, pretty much all as you describe but no fever or chills...it has been a few months and it's since got a bit better but the sad part is I pretty much don't get any visible paper cuts anymore and can't time my doctor visits for culturing. Like you I've also been tested several times with my HSV 2 being negative (I always had oral HSV 1).

Question for you, did you maybe test too early? Igg antibodies generally take time to build up, roughly 3-4 months for most people but even longer for others. Wait it out and get tested again. In the meantime please keep us posted on your status and if you do get your lesions cultured before you do the blood test please post the outcome here, as I feel like your symptoms match mine the closest on this forum and I would like to know how it all plays out. Good luck!

[DiDiva]

Hi.  So I'm not mad.  Someone else is going through this too.  What's your story? I'd be really interested. Was it after a new partner? Blood test was 4 months post exposure.  So would like to believe it but.....  I will let you know the outcome on this thread if I ever get one.  Whatever it is it is contagious as I definitely 'got' it from someone else, so I have to find out what it is and get it sorted before passing this on.  I too can't get to doc for swabs in time. I'm getting very frightened now in case this is some horrific disease. Gyn recommended getting HIV test done again - scared stiff now.

[Birka123]

Your story very much resonates with mine. I was in a long serious relationship with someone I started seeing when we were both virgins, so I never had any problems of this sort until like you I slept with a guy I did not know. I used protection and let me tell you, I thought that would have me covered, no pun intended. Things like herpes never even crossed my mind. So two weeks later I start feeling really raw down there, so I assumed it was from the rough toilet paper that I've been using (I was in a diff country so they don't really have anything better). I never bothered looking to see what it was until I came back home and saw what looked like two deep oozing cuts on each side of my vulva. I assumed it was a really bad yeast infection even though I never had anything like it. I also had a lot of redness, pain, and irritation, could barely wear jeans. By the time I made an appt with my OB gyn the cuts were gone. But the redness was still there and so was the constant pain. She seemed very hesitant to even look down there but finally did, and saw nothing. Gave me a blood test for Igg, at which point it was too early anyway and the result was ofcourse negative. After that I kept having recurring pain and papercuts, this time just one at a time and also recall stabbing vaginal pain with some oozing like discharge, so clearly there was a sore inside. By the time I'd make it to the doctor nothing would be visible. There was a whole host of other symptoms too like enlarged lymph node down there, stiff neck, horrible new type of headaches, and general weakness. At 3 months post exposure I got tested for all STDs and candida, all of which were neg. HSV 2 including. Today was about 16 weeks post exposure for me so I went to a doctor to get my blood drawn again, will let you know how that goes. 

I do plan to retest with my final Igg at 6 months, if I don't get my lesions cultured before that, and if still negative confirm with a Western Blot, which I heard is so difficult to get. Only then will I calm down. This caused me a lot of anxiety, embarrassment, and fear. I keep going on everyday thinking this is it, I have herpes. I don't even know how I still function at work, cuz when I come home I just collapse and can't do anything. I'm clearly depressed and want my life back.

Don't freak out about HiV, I know it's hard not to, but take the test. Chances are your symptoms are not caused by HIV either and it will ease your mind once the test comes back negative. It is much harder to get then herpes. 

I have two threads out there, one with Grace's responses and one with Dr. Hook's. I will update my situation there, so you can follow along. 

Don't lose hope, I seem to lose it alot but on rare minutes I regain it. We certainly learned a lesson and hopefully we'll both have favorable outcomes and will know better next time. I'll pray for that.

[DiDiva]

Hey there.  This is a nightmare isn't it?  I think I'm starting to move on from hsv.  Well, somedays I am.  I just think my symptoms are too often now to even by hsv2.  although the spots on my buttocks make me think twice about this.  And of course having the most terrible infection 2 weeks after contact.  The pain was awful and the itchiness and swelling was unbearable.  And like you - I'm thinking, it can't be anything else apart from hsv.  You don't hear of any other std (or infection) causing all these sypmtoms.  I'm not really buying the whole daignosis I was given as to be honest it was a guess for my gym as I've tested neg for everything. But if I spend a day just thinking, well all stds are clear (well the common ones anyway) and whatever this is is just a coincidence in timing or a yeast or bv infection from the encounter triggered all this - and if i met a new partner and we got std testing together - i'd come out clean - so there shouldn't be a problem.  But then I get the swelling and itching and cuts and hot feverish face, red peeling lips etc and then I know I caught something from this dude.  Round and round in circles.  And the fact that the symptoms come and go makes me thing viral not bacterial and there is no other viral infection of the vagina that I can find out there.  What about you?  Anyway, I'll follow your post and I too will post on here if I get any answers.  Can't wait until we finally get to the end of this horrible road.  And you know the worst part - I didn't even have full sex.  Should have just carried on and enjoyed myself instead of stopping it to be careful cause the worst outcome happened anyway, ha ha!

[Birka123]

Yeah, I've had so many regrets over this myself. I was always careful before and thought this would never happen, but I guess never say never, right? It is one of those viruses that's so hard to diagnose, surprisingly enough. I always thought anything STD related would pretty much be a piece of cake - order some tests, get your results, deal with them accordingly, etc. Here it feels like I have to question my blood test result everytime, like am i really negative with all these symptoms? Come on, no way! I have not seen any other condition that would produce so much pain In combination with ulcers, as atypical as they are, and I ve been reading way too many posts where peoples blood tests just don't show antibodies in time, or ever. I feel like there's an overwhelming percentage of people with uncertain Igg status, which to me looks more than the stated 5%. I wish my chance of not having this was really 95% at this point. I'm gonna believe my symptoms over bloodwork, as that is what I can actually feel. Its funny my sister is a doctor and she seems to be like the rest of them, she states i dont have herpes based on my bloodwork but its not that simple.

I was going to ask you if your medication is helping your symptoms at all. I was prescribed Valtrex by one gyno who claimed I have Hsv 1 down there, even though it is next to impossible to get genitally once you have it orally like me. I was gonna try out taking the pills just to see if i feel better, but I really don't want it to delay my already delayed seroconversion. FYI I have every reason to believe that the guy I slept with has herpes, saw his friends saying stuff on facebook that kinda goes along with that.

I'm really waking up everyday thinking it is all just a bad dream, just to realize that no, this is now my reality. I'm supposed to be going away in less than a week yet I had no time or desire to prep for this trip cause I'm in so much pain and discomfort and my energy is fully dedicated to researching this condition. I have a lot of thoughts right now, like my friends who have slept around for years without getting anything, I mean God bless them and all but for me it took only one night of protected intercourse. I did not enjoy it either, which sucks. I lost my best friend over this, who also happens to be my ex. He even sensed that I was gonna sleep with some random person and told me to use protection. I mean i did. Ofcourse I just laughed at him at the time but hey, the damage is done.

Let me know how the anti virals are working out for you so far. I think if they don't help at all it has to be something else, and I hope that's the case for you.

[DiDiva]

Hey just an update.  (Grace, I post back on here as it's directly to do with my herpes issues rather than general std enquiry). Been back to doctor.  Long story short.  She says my symptoms are herpes.  Although not classic.  If all else fails after other tablets and treatment and tests for yeast, bv and pid etc then they will put me on antivirals for a while to see if it helps, 'because not everyone tests positive on blood work for hsv'.  She said blood tests are they to help doctors make a diagnosis but sometimes you can just trust what you can see and hear.  Why didn't they do this months ago.  Arrghhh.  Of course I don't want to have hsv but if I can take tablets and get some relief then that's a step forward.  And if I don't get any relief, then I don't have herpes and will just have to live the rest of my life in misery with this mystery infection that nobody can figure out!!!!!