choline upper daily dose

[ill13632]

how much choline can I take with AST ALT 80/250?  I read choline can cure non alcoholic fatty liver disease that I have.  it seems to be one of the only drugs that can help this disease

I'm really worried I had encephalopathy brain damage after surgery and had all the symptoms and problems with bleeding under my skin from a nurse needle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatic_encephalopathy

[ill13632]

I was able to lower my levels from 80/270 to 27/60 in 2 weeks on NAC, choline and milk thistle.  I don't think I could have done it otherwise?
I began to feel better after taking NAC and had more energy and strength after being so weak after the surgery and anesthesia.  and then the blood under my arm healed up 2 days after starting NAC

[ill13632]

well fatty liver may be from choline deficiency and a problem in my body with processing fat.  L carnitine is an amino acid that is supposedly used in fat metabolism

before the liver damage I tried eating chopped liver and taking regular choline and milk thistle.... .  NAFLD means liver damage has already occurred.  so maybe I didn't supplement choline enough?  

I am taking the GNC lecithin choline with phosphitadylcholine now, but I'm unhappy my doctors didn't give me any treatment

[ill13632]

that's odd actually NAC seems to help lower CO2 levels and treat hypertension in this study

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8583705

[ill13632]

I took 2 bottles of GNC NAC that's about 72 grams in about a week.  I asked in one of the forums here but the doctor never responded

[ill13632]

remodeling is really bad, some people seem to get COPD that way....I have asthma- maybe this mouse study is applicable to humans

maybe it was a bad idea to take so much NAC- I was really worried after surgery.  my lung function is down and I have rib pain
I'm surprised my doctors never told me that NAFLD the liver is actually damaged and inflamed, so I cannot even take meds easily (never drank much).  and I guess I can never drink even a beer...

[ill13632]

did you see a study about NAC by the way?  
I think I'm sleeping better now after taking NAC and liverite supplements.  I can't find a reason for my crippling sleep disorder, my BMI is 24 and I'm only a little overweight maybe 20 pounds at 180.

isn't it possible that NAC/glutathione could help clear your body of other toxins?  I know this sounds like unclinical wishful thinking

[ill13632]

I think you're right I took too much NAC for a level of 80/250, I didn't have a tyenol overdose so maybe I should have taken 1-3g a day?  it seems glutathione binds with the toxic tyenol otherwise your liver cells start dying by the billions.  I'm getting these pains in my ribs on both sides, can't fall asleep

[ill13632]

anyway it was terrible and traumatic, I had this trach surgery and then my levels were 80/250.  I've never been so exhausted and foggy and I probably had hepatic encephalopathy.  I've heard doctors saying online that NAC is safe, it is given in high doses for tyenol overdose.  

but I'm not purposely overdosing, I'm just trying to save my liver from damage and scarring, cirrhosis

[ill13632]

how come NAC isn't taken at high doses after the initial overdose?  I think I was given too much anesthesia in surgery or something else happened?

[ill13632]

so I'm harming my liver by taking like 15g of NAC a day??

[WillinSD]

Hi ill, I'm not a doctor but I've taken many of the supp's you mention.  

High dose NAC is the prescription for acute acetaminophen poisoning but from what I've read, once the acute phase is over and you're a week or so away from the overdose, NAC at high doses is no longer necessary and you can taper down to normal supplemental doses of 600mg once or twice a day.  

From what I've read, mega-dosing on any supplement or medication is dangerous when the liver is compromised, & I never take anything over the recommended dose on the label.  

CoQ10 made me feel punky so I haven't had much experience with it.  Lecithin, Vitamin-E and perhaps Milk Thistle appear to be the supplements  most often used for NAFLD.  

Regarding the IBS...  NAC thins mucus in the bowel and may affect your IBS so watch for this.  Lower doses may be better!  

I think GNC products are fine but I believe most supplements are produced by a few big labs and different labels applied for different companies.  I look for freshness and price more than brand names.  

Hope this helps.  

[ill13632]

there's evidence that vitamin E at 800IU a day can help liver disease
I wonder if CoQ10 might be helpful also

[ill13632]

I had bad internists that never told me to do anything about my NAFLD, and my GI doctor was kind of deceptive in not treating my liver problems and not doing anything for my IBS

[ill13632]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22134222

what I have now is liver damage and I think hepatic encepholapathy from surgery and anesthesia at 80/250.  milk thistle also seems to lower AST ALT levels in chemo patients

glutathione can be given intravenously by some doctors but this sounds like more of an experimental treatment

[ill13632]

I read online that choline can reverse NAFLD damage and that the upper limit may be 3g day which causes liver damage/rise in AST ALT levels.  I think the NAC has been working for me at 6g or more a day, but I'm not sure how safe it is long term.  it seems to be safe as an emergency treatment for acute liver failure from tyenol/non tyenol substances

I'm taking this liverite that has phosphatidylcholine and lecithin but it's too expensive for me.  it also has this 17 amino acids and cysteine.  NAC raises glutathione levels which may be depleted by tyenol.  is the GNC any good?  

[WillinSD]

Hi ill; I'm a liver patient who's researched choline quite a bit.  

I don't have a source for this tip handy, but I've read phosphatidylcholine (aka Lecithin) is the best choline supplement for the liver.  There are choline chloride and choline bitartrate supplements available but I've read these can actually stress the liver due to the extremely high, but short lived blood levels taking choline in this way generate.  

Lecithin delivers a more consistent level of choline in a form the liver can work with, so you might want to research this for yourself.  

There are "triple strength" lecithin supplements available at a very low cost which might be a good choice.  I take an ultra-refined high potency polyunsaturated form of lecithin called PPC, or "polyenylphosphatidylcholine", which I've had great results with.  PPC is a bit pricey, but if you can afford it, this is the Cadillac of choline supplements.  

I've read Hep-C patients take up to 6, 900mg PPC gelcaps per day, so I would think this would be the upper limit, but I've never taken more than 3 a day and got wonderful results.  

Also...  The PIVENS trial for NASH (nonalcoholic steatohepatitis) found Vitamin-E to be more effective than the drug they were comparing it to (Pioglitazone), so you might wish to look into this and perhaps add some E to your treatment.