Bartonella scratch rash

[MrsAristotle]

Hi i am seeing a lyme literature medical centre on 24th May. My Lymes test came back negative on the NHS (UK). Anyway I have had lots of symptons for Lymes so thought it would be worth getting it checked out. Anyway I have been ill for 6 months with MS type symptoms.

2 weeks ago i got a really itchy rash on my left side under my ribs, prior to that I had weird tickly feeling in my left ribs and tingling nearly drove me mad as wanted to scratch nothing. Then the rash which was just really a red blob came under where it had been annoying me. I saw the doctor she said I had shingles.

Anyway last week I started to get itching on my right side, and developed what looked like a scratch, so I thought it was me scratching myself, then I had another one, then another one until I have about 10, they look like scratches a couple were raised and itchy. I went back to see the nurse and she said it wasnt an allergy she wasnt sure what it was but it looked like a lot of scratch marks.

Now I was talking to a friend in the states and she said it sounded like the Baronella scratch rash and sent me images. Well to be honest they could have been pictures of my own back.

I have tried to get my hubby to take photo he is not good but you can see scratch marks.

What do you think guys, should i do something about this?

[youvegottobekidding]

Hi Mrs Aristotle,

I just want to say that the diabolical itching you described sounds a lot like bartonella - I have the  itching but no rash. Bartonella is a very irritating infection that flares up and dies down for no apparent reason, but I think I can guess what has caused it for you.

Having teeth extracted is as much of a strain for your body, and adrenal glands in particular, as any other operation or major injury. This kind of physical stress is exactly the kind of thing that can provoke a flare up of lyme, bartonella or any of the other tick borne infections. The best way to help yourself is to get as much rest as you possibly can, avoid caffeine (when you're tired rest instead) and also steer clear of fried and sugary foods, which cast additional strain on your adrenal glands.
It's a very good job you declined steroids, as that would have made the situation even worse.

Losing hair can be caused by zinc deficiency, biotin deficiency or low thyroid condition - all of which are common in people with lyme disease. Of course there are many other causes of hair loss, but if it is connected to the lyme, then those are the most likely causes.

If you ever find out what made your grey hair change back to black, please let me know!!! I need that to happen to me!!!  :-)

The Breakspear is the best hospital for Lyme disease in the UK BTW, so you should be in good hands.

[JackieCalifornia]

Oh my, you really have been through the mill.

SO glad you are seeing an enlightened doc.  I have not (knock on wood) had Bartonella, but I gather from other people posting here that it is particularly difficult to live with.  

It is odd, isn't it, how one can turn the symptoms one way and they like a certain ailment, but then look at them another way, and a completely different picture emerges.  It explains why the docs have such a hard time figuring it all out.

As a back up plan, consider herbal treatments -- the clinic you are headed to seems to be open to that, from what I read quickly on the internet.  After I was done with antibiotic treatment, I started seeing another MD who has me on a variety of supplements and vitamins that I find very helpful in how I feel ... I am so obnoxiously energetic sometimes now that even I can't believe it!  I wish the same for you --   :)

[MrsAristotle]

Thanks for your answer. Yes your right where would one get bitten lol. Funny enough I was bitten by a large fat tick in 1969 lol in Cyprus where I used to live I found it stuck behind my leg it was huge lol, and it never ever left any rash or nothing it was a difficult tick to remove too.

Anyway, the thing is I love fishing. I have fished for years with my husband we go to lakes and they have sheep and deer running around, and one has to walk through long grass and we sit on the river bank for hours, so I could have easily been bitten and never known about it, as they drop off they dont always stay with the host.

I am not sure it is Lymes, but the rash now is certainly I think Bartonella....I dont think i had shingles at all, because where i got the original problem on my left side, I had a weird rash which never broke out like shingles, but now I can see clearly on the skin 3 old scratch marks....

The scratch marks today on the other side one is driving me mad is flaring and so sore. I have noticed almost a stain around the complete area of the scratch marks, it looks bizarre...like a stain with ragged edges which encompasses the area of the marks. I have also noticed on my ankles like spider vein marks with the similar stain which I have had before I dont know if this is part of it or not.

It makes sense to as several times over the last few years I have woken up with scratch marks on the front of my shins like lesions but with no blood, and i kept saying to my husband it is so odd because they look like I have been scratching myself but I know i havent. Yes I do scratch myself really hard on my shins because sometimes the itching and burning drives me nuts, but so far i have never left scratch mark wheals the same as I have now.

I actually wonder if this bartonella has been active and i have just misunderstood the symptoms.

Now after the trauma of the teeth being extracted I am wondering if my auto immune has just gone into over drive and kicked it all off.

I did feel poopy when the I had the first rash head ache, and aching, like i had the flu.

This is my first rash, it looks nothing like shingles to me lol.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t140/MrsAristotle/firstrash.jpg

I also had a rash with a stain and a red sort of spot in the middle which was itchy on my breast BEFORE I had the first rash. It was quite large and hot, and I saw my nurse and she thought it could be an allergy to something i was on antibiotics cant remember now why. It took 2 weeks to go but I still have an odd mark and bruise where the small mark was. So obviously something must have been going on. (Oh i remember now i had the antibiotics for ear ache eurythamcin which i have taken all my life.

Anyway its all a bit odd. What with my hair going from grey now to black for no reason I think i am an alien lol but my hair is now thinning which is a worry as i had lovely thick Italian hair and now it is thinning.  I think it will go black totally then all my hair will fall out lol.

Thanks for taking the time to answer for me its really appreciated and so supportive. Mariax

[JackieCalifornia]

Oh, excellent about your docs sending the bloodwork to IgeneX!

Whether it's a new infection or a flare up of an old one -- who knows!?  There's no rule that says Tick #2 can't bite you just because Tick #1 got there first.  I think it happened to me (and also to someone else I know personally) that we were bitten again ... I had felt low-level tired and out of sorts for a long time, like I was coming down with something, but attributed it to overwork and stress.  I suspect now, looking back, that I had gotten infected but my immune system was battling back and keeping things mostly under control, until suddenly on a trip back East (where the woods are very leafy and thick with Lyme ticks) I got oddly and terribly ill like nothing I had ever had.  The best description I had then and now is that it was like a bad case of the flu and a hangover on top of it.  Ugh.

I was finally, a year or more later, I was diagnosed with Lyme and babesiosis ... the re-infection finally overwhelmed what my immune system had been able to manage, but not kill.

Lyme is everywhere, and the ticks are too, so don't make yourself crazy trying to pinpoint when and where you got infected.  You may never know -- I still don't!  Docs make us so defensive that we struggle to find specific historical events to prove that we got bitten, when it should be the doc's problem to diagnose and not make us prove up anything.

So glad you are going to a good clinic!  Will look to hear from you!  (And ask the doc about what co-infections s/he might suspect -- just so they know that you know about it all.)

Cheers!

[Stargazer_Lilies]

While picture is't clear, it looks like rash I had on my wrists two years ago after worked in the garden. Does it oozes? By the way, it wasn't posion ivy, and I had no history of posion ivy, I can touch them and have no reaction.  

Most recent was last fall without any oozing. My dermatalogist thought it was from me stratching skin too much. I told her, no. it just pop up then fades on its own. It didn't persists. Bart or not? Jackie, mojogal, what do you think?

[MrsAristotle]

Hi Jackie yes I have as a good forum buddy made me lol.

The Breakspeare will send my blood to thse lab in the USA igenex lab, so I know i will be well cared for.

I have been told by a few now that this is the classic Bart rash.

The thing is what worries me is it a co infection from the original or is it a coincidence and a new infection. I havent been scratched by cats and i dont allow my animals to lick me. So concerned why now.

I dont think i had shingles i think it was perhaps a flare from the original infection maybe having my teeth out put my auto immune system into overdrive and allowed the co infection to wake up who knows lol. Thanks for your response. I will let you know how i get on, i just hope it isnt another dead end.

Its odd about the steroids because my neuro wanted to pump me full of them on an I.V. and i said no this was to control a really bad flare which they think could be MS. I dont do steroids I saw what they did to my dad, yes they do help to control but they dont get rid of and the aftermath can be devastating on learn term use. xx Maria

[JackieCalifornia]

Sorry, just reread your post, and you say you are already booked into a Lyme specialist.  Good for you!  Let us know how it goes.

[JackieCalifornia]

Greetings, long time since we have 'seen' you here.

Should you do something?  Yes, I would.  I don't think it goes away by itself.

Seeing an MD who understands Lyme and the other infections carried by ticks would be the single best thing you could do.

I gather that finding a Lyme specialist who thinks Big Thoughts about these topics is difficult in the UK, given the restrictions by NHS.  You could try sending an email to:

contact [at] ILADS [dot] org

and see if they can refer you to an MD in England.  ILADS is the main voluntary MD group which takes a progressive view on Lyme and its coinfections.  They are based in NY, but Lyme is pretty much everywhere, it seems.  

If you do have Lyme or a co-infection, be wary of any doc who tries to give you steroids (hydrocortisone etc) to suppress your immune system.  That is the exact opposite of what should be done in a bacterial infection like Lyme.

Best wishes to you -- let us know how it goes, all right?

[mojogal]

I have Barts and i have those scratch looking marks all over, on my breasts stomach and legs. At first they were raised and itchy, now its over a year and they are just there flat looking.. lt's something that should go away with abx treatment after a while. Hope you can find an LLMD to help you. Ilads dot org might be able to help you find one because long term antibiotics is what you need.