Lyme Results: Band 23 and 41 IGM POSITIVE

[scottmurphy]

Thank you for offering a platform for discussion.

I tested negative on the Lyme WB at Labcorp on June 12, but positive on two bands IGM: IGM 23 AND IGM 41. All IGG were NEGATIVE.

I have got tested for HIV, Hep C, HSV2, Clymadia, Gonorrehea and Syphillis (using RPR) and tested negative.

I have these symptions ON AND OFF from last 4 months: Abdominal Pain (mostly in Upper Abdomen), Fatigue, Non-Specific Urethritis, Headache, Leg pains and Loose and Foamy/Scattered Stools.

Coming back to tests, please comment on the following:

1. Band 41 (Flagellum) in Lyme WB is common for many diseases - Can it be related to other Flagellum like H.pylori and E.coli?
2. Is Band 23 specific to Lyme? Are there any other diseases that can be related to a Positive Band 23?
3. Would you recommend any other Lab Tests OR Any possible diseases i can relate to these tests, as, only IGM is positive and i have symptoms from last 3-4 months.


Thank you,
Scott

[sam6386]

this is similar to the results of mine....41 is present in both and 23 is present in IgM band. My doctor seems to think this is Lyme...I have no recollection of a tick bite or rash and I am not outside often... but she says it still happens and isn't uncommon that they will bite you and fall off, without a rash. I haven't been feeling myself for the past month so I understand. The tests I believe cost a lot of money. Talk to your doctor about antibiotics (thats what I am doing) taking Doxycycline 100mg twice a day and I am going to go 4 another test after that and see what happens. The medicine won't hurt you and treats other bacterias as well it is also good for acne I have heard.

[wonko]

I'm far from an expert on understanding the test results.  Here is a link to a post by another member, SOONERMOM, and her doctor's explanation of some details of the Western blot:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Lyme-Disease/If-I-really-do-have-Lymes-Disease/show/973861?personal_page_id=5046&post_id=post_4559109

[wonko]

Thought I would add:

I was tested for everything under the sun, twice.  My ELISA was negative on a couple of occasions.  My Igenex results were IgG 39+ 41+++, IgM 41+.  I went over 1.5 years with obvious symptoms before getting diagnosed.  I've been on antibiotics 6+ months and am starting to get better after being practically disabled.

I was never a CDC positive case.

[patsy10]

Welcome.  Band 23 is a significant band.  41 is non-specific as you stated.  The link that wonko posted explains the western blot very well.

Considering you live in a lyme endemic state you may want to see a lyme literate MD and get a western blot done through Igenex labs.

[scottmurphy]

Friends,

This is very tricky and i noticed that a very experienced doctor is also surprised and confused with the lab results. Please share your experiences and please answer my questions, if possible:

1. Band 41 (Flagellum) in Lyme WB is commonCommon cold for many diseases - Can it be related to other Flagellum like H.pylori and E.coli?
2. Is Band 23 specific to Lyme? Are there any other diseases that can be related to a Positive Band 23?
3. Would you recommend any other Lab Tests OR Any possible diseases i can relate to these tests, as, only IGM is positive and i have symptoms from last 3-4 months.

Any information/suggesstions will be appreciated by many sufferers.

[scottmurphy]

Its quite possible that its some other disease, or a band closely related to some other disease. Please help and share your experiences.

[sam6386]

what has your doctor said? did he or she put u on a medicine to clear or try and clear up the Lyme if you have it? Talk to your doctor about medicines...I am scared about my results too so I totally understand. My doctor took action and put me on Doxycycline for a month and I am going to get re-tested on July 10th. Talk to him or her about medicines and what they think...whats their opinion? maybe you should try it? for a month or so? If you are very worried get a few opinions...goodluck.

[sam6386]

I would like to see what everyone else has to say since my results seem veryyyyy similar to yours....

[sam6386]

see mine were band 23 was positive IgM and band 41 was positive in both IgM and IgG. and this too was through the Western Blot. I am very scared/worried too... I hope this is right and that this test is reliable and the results are reliable... I would also like to ask that same question can 23 be something else? is any way shape or for? or is it strictly Lyme? I am so confused too. I understand...

[sam6386]

You say 23 is significant band...even if its only an IgM band? what is the difference between the IgM and IgG bands?

[wonko]

Your symptoms and test results are different than mine, but since Lyme has so many ways of presenting and so much variation from person to person, that doesn't mean very much.  Here are a few thought and questions:

IgM antibodies for Lyme diseaes appear in the blood earlier than IgG antibodies.  I'm not sure on the quantitative times for each, but that could be why you show only IgM bands at ~4 months into symptoms.  You may have stated it and I just missed it, but did you also have an ELISA test?  The ELISA usually is done before the Western blot.

What lab did your Western blot?  Quest and LapCorp are the most common labs associated with insurance companies.  There are also specialty labs dedicated to testing for Lyme and tick-borne infection (TBI).  A major such lab is Igenex.  Many doctors who specialize in Lyme disease use Igenex.

No matter what lab is used, the blood tests are not reliable enough to clearly diagnose all patients.  Many rely on clinical diagnosis based on symptoms, history, and the ruling out of all other conditions.  Have you had other tests to look for other possible causes of your illness?  Has your doctor discussed with you what else s/he is considering?  

Do you recall a tick bite, or did you have a bull's eye rash?  I had neither, and have read that up to 40% of patients don't recall the bite.  But of course if you do, it's an important clue.

The medical community is strongly polarized on Lyme disease, from the testing, diagnosis, to treatment.  You must be aware of this, and how it may influence your ability to get a diagnosis and proper treatment.  That is why patsy10 mentioned an LLMD or "Lyme literate" physician.  This is a patient descriptor, not an accreditation.  If you seek out an LLMD, I'd suggest looking for one that has ILADS affiliation.  

We're here to try and help answer questions, as it is very murky to navigate this.  Other resources that may help you at this stage are the ILADS website, the book "Cure Unknown" by P. Weintraub, and the documentary (currently in select theaters) "Under Our Skin."  All have informative websites that you can easily find.

[sam6386]

I know your response was to scottmurphy but that helped...could or would you be able to also answer my question about band 23 being significant?

[wonko]

My response is for anyone who finds it helpful in anyway.

Did you read the post I linked above, in my 1st response on this thread?  It talks about the Western blot bands.  I personally know very little about the bands.  

The tests failed me as my screening test was negative twice, and that lead to a significant delay in my diagnosis/treatment.  I personally relied mainly on a good clinical diagnosis by a doctor familiar with Lyme, made after everything else under the sun was ruled out.  My response to treatment also solidified my diagnosis.

[sam6386]

yes that thread was from me lol. but yes thank you for your help! I really appreciate it. I guess I will just wait and see what happens when I take the tests over again on July 10th.

[wonko]

Ooops!  I forgot who the original poster was on that thread!

I know it's very confusing that there are such distinct and non-overlapping views on Lyme.  At  this stage, it's good for you to be aware of that, you don't need to pick sides or become an expert overnight.  I went through a lot of confusion before getting diagnosed, and really thought that Lyme had been properly ruled out.

If you haven't yet, you may want to find the trailer to "Under Our Skin" online.  It's only about 2.5 miutes, and will give you a glimpse into how different doctors take different stances, and how patients are left in the middle.  

I had not only my physician, but many other specialists tell me I didn't have this disease, and it took a lot of time and help from kind strangers to help me sort out what was happening to my health.  And it's an ongoing process!

[sam6386]

thank you for your kind advice and opinions, you have been really helpful...I really hope this is what it is and that it gets cleared up. My doctor seemed very shocked and so did I but when she had gotten the results back she had take immediate action... Hopefully it really is Lyme and hopefully we solved this problem... I will keep everyone posted next time I go in and with the results...

[sam6386]

I watched this 5 min 30 ish sec. documentary on it. It is very very upsetting and I feel so bad for those cases I wish everyone on this site the best. and I hope we all get treated consistantly and correctly.  

[patsy10]

To try and answer your questions:

1.  Yes.  From what I have read 41 is the most common but can be positive with other things like H. Pylori.
2.  ?
3. Igenex labs for testing

IgM-Current or chronic infection
IgG-Past infection

However from what I have read either can indicate a current lyme infection.

If your read wonko's first post there is a link which explains the western blot very well or go to drcharlescrist.com

[SOONERMOM]

Below is something I found that might explain the significance of the band 23-25(OspC)..and other bands as well and how the CDC came to accept certain bands as criteria.

http://www.lymenet.de/labtests/brenner.htm

"   1. the first band to show up on a Lyme disease patient's IgM blot is usually the one at 41 kDa,
   2. followed by the OspC band and/or the one at 39.

It also goes on to say how if you are IgM positive after being sick for more than 6 weeks (of course who was tested that soon???) that it doesn't apply because it should be more  of a IgG response in their opinion.  This is why no one around here considers me  positive I guess.  This is also how the LLMD differ, the consider it an "ongoing" infection where the bacteria is constantly changing and our immune system is changing antibodies to adapt to the bacteria.

[sam6386]

thank you for your responses again...is there anyway I can have your input on mine and someone elses other post on is Lyme disease transmitted through sex? I would really appreciate this. thank you.

[sam6386]

what does it mean when he says 5 out of those bands have to be considered positive? isn't this a lot? do you think with mine and scotts results we do have Lyme? sorry I have really been freaking out as to what I have and I am  sooo confused...

[suzeeg]

Hi. Just read a little of your "story." My son too had pain in his upper stomach and loose stoole. Before he had that he complained about a few normal lyme symptoms, but not too bad that we took him to get checked. (Never knew he was bit.) When I finally took him to the doctor for his stomach, our dr. told us that 8 out of 10 children with unexplained stomach problems were tested for lymes with a positive result. He had lymes alright. Five positive bars and antibodies ar 2.32. He was tested for H.plyori and that was negative. I would have another lyme test done. As you know, lymes is tricky and gives false negatives and other screwy results. Good luck.

[sam6386]

thank you for your comments hopefully scottmurphy reads it too! I am being treated for mine already and will go and test again july 10th to see if the medication helped. I hope that this is it and its the answer to my problems...

[suzeeg]

oops.....Lol I meant to send my comment to scottmurphy. I'm pretty new to this site,sorry...: )