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c4a????
My llmd is certain I have lyme and some co-infections. I have not yet had a positive test for it. SHe just had the c4a test done which also came back normal. I have been on treatment for almost three months and not really improving. I have been checked for everything else. MRI's blood work ect ect....My question is has anyone had a normal c4a and negative lyme test? I am just starting to get a little skeptical about it all. She keeps telling me its normal to have a negative result but then take antibiotics foe a few months then retest and it show up. SHe says my symptoms are more that of the co-infections like babesia and bartonella. I have not been tested for these. O one other note I have only had quest check me for lyme not igenix. Any input is appreciated!!!
A high B12 can indicate a MTHFR issue, which is somewhat common with Lyme. Your B12 level may be high, but it is inactive - not going to good use. It just clogs up detoxification pathways. People with MTHFR cannot metabolize vitamin B12 well or at all, so you accumulate the inactive form.. What maters is how much of that is actually biology active. If you have little active B12, then it's just like having low vitamin B12. Most doctor don't think much about high levels... But it can be just as much of an issue as being low.
Supplement with Methylcobalamin or hydroxylcombalamin (more tolerable), and that should help with issues associated with that. Take as much as you can afford. Just try and stay away from inactive forms as much as possible. Some people have bigger issues than others.
Supplement with Methylcobalamin or hydroxylcombalamin (more tolerable), and that should help with issues associated with that. Take as much as you can afford. Just try and stay away from inactive forms as much as possible. Some people have bigger issues than others.
Thank you for the response. Everything you said makes perfect sense to me. I have not had the cd57 done. I have only been tested by quest for lyme. It was negative. My dr gave me a clinical diagnosis based on my symptoms and all of the other test that I have done to rule out other diseases/conditions. I gave blood monday and sent to IGenix. I requested the full lyme panel and co-infections panel. So I will hopeful have a confirmation soon. The only other thing that was off on my testing was a really high b12 level twice. Do you know anything about that or is that common?
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
Just a slight correction... Not sure why they named it IGenex because they have many different test for Lyme. They have a western blot, which checks for your body's antibody production to the bacteria - which may or may not be strong enough to induce a positive result. They have other antibody test as well, but the IGenex western blot is probably about as good as it gets. PCR directly checks for the bacteria DNA in the blood, which is tough to pick up on for a number of reasons. A positive PCR is definite, and I am sure any doctor anywhere would agree. But the chances are slim. I have tested negative on everything with PCR that has showed up with indirect antibody testing. And that has been quite a few infections.
I have a feeling that the IGenex western blot is somehow much more sensitive than testing elsewhere. My IGenex is CDC positive, but it is weak. Probably too weak for mainstream labs to pick up on, plus other labs don't check as many bands. IGenex shows bands with an intensity. IND, and a various number on stars on the positives (indicates how strong the reaction to that band is). Hopefully I'm making sense. I treated for a while prior to the test, and it usually helps. Went on to get a positive Babesia add Bartonella antibody through IGenex, after testing negative through two other labs. Anaplasma is a tick born infection that can be easily picked up on at any lab.
What lab did your C4a? It has to be done through a certain lab for accuracy. It needs to be sent to National Jewish via Quest. If done correctly, turnaround time is usually about four weeks. If your doctor orders this test, I'm sure she already knows this. A CD57 count should be done. If low, it can be an indicator. If it's normal, it still doesn't rule out the possibility. And a high CD57 count COULD suggest an infection with Bartonella.
IF you had a normal C4a AND CD57 count and all testing comes back normal, THEN I would have some doubts about Lyme. It never hurts to have an IgG subclass to make sure your body even has the ability to produce the antibodies towards the infection.
I have a feeling that the IGenex western blot is somehow much more sensitive than testing elsewhere. My IGenex is CDC positive, but it is weak. Probably too weak for mainstream labs to pick up on, plus other labs don't check as many bands. IGenex shows bands with an intensity. IND, and a various number on stars on the positives (indicates how strong the reaction to that band is). Hopefully I'm making sense. I treated for a while prior to the test, and it usually helps. Went on to get a positive Babesia add Bartonella antibody through IGenex, after testing negative through two other labs. Anaplasma is a tick born infection that can be easily picked up on at any lab.
What lab did your C4a? It has to be done through a certain lab for accuracy. It needs to be sent to National Jewish via Quest. If done correctly, turnaround time is usually about four weeks. If your doctor orders this test, I'm sure she already knows this. A CD57 count should be done. If low, it can be an indicator. If it's normal, it still doesn't rule out the possibility. And a high CD57 count COULD suggest an infection with Bartonella.
IF you had a normal C4a AND CD57 count and all testing comes back normal, THEN I would have some doubts about Lyme. It never hurts to have an IgG subclass to make sure your body even has the ability to produce the antibodies towards the infection.
Many LLMD are starting to just use the C4-A because the CD-57 isn't very accurate. I know someone with a very high CD-57 yet is very sick.
My llmd is very well known. One of the only one in fl/ ga that has been around for years! If anyone is in this area and need a good one just let me know!
Thats right. The c4a is just another thing that a lot of llmd's use to help with diagnosis.
I know that the co-infection tests even by IgeneX are not always correct. A good LLMD will give you a clinical diagnoses. I was positive for Bartonella but negative for Babesia even though I had the illness very badly. I was treated for Babs anyway.
Recently My C4a was very high as well as my C reactive protein. They show inflamation.
Recently My C4a was very high as well as my C reactive protein. They show inflamation.
Check out the one in their forums that says "what is c4a" People have put good info about the test and links for people to read about it. Its good stuff.
Look at healingwell.com in their forums under lyme.. You will see wherer there is a lot of people posting about it a long with a lot of other good information about lyme. Its not a specific test for lyme but just a good indicator. Its very common among llmds I am surprised no one on here as heard of it.
You lost me. I went to the site and cannot come up with the same conclusions you did. Best wishes, hope you're right!
http://www.publichealthalert</strong%3E.org/role-of-c3a-and-c4a-complement-proteins-in-chronic-lyme-disease.html
Check out healing well.com if you have not already there is a lot of people on that site with a lot of knowledge about c4a one of the members posted that link. I wasnt talking about false positives or negatives about lyme but about the co infections. She would certainly test with igenix if I paid for it but my symptoms were so prominent that she started treatment.
Check out healing well.com if you have not already there is a lot of people on that site with a lot of knowledge about c4a one of the members posted that link. I wasnt talking about false positives or negatives about lyme but about the co infections. She would certainly test with igenix if I paid for it but my symptoms were so prominent that she started treatment.
"She is of the opinion about the test is they are not accurate. False negatives as well as false positives so she diagnosis and treats based on symptoms."
Not trying to contradict your doc, but to treat primarily on the basis of symptoms would make me uneasy. IGeneX will not, to my reading and understanding, produce a false positive Lyme test, because the test is positive *only* in the presence of Lyme bacteria: the test looks for DNA [genes] from the Lyme bacteria.
(The older tests, W.blot and ELISA, do have the problem of false negatives, but I have not heard of any of the three tests [W.blot, ELISA, IGeneX PCR] producting false positive results.)
As to C4A, it is an inflammation marker, so does it differentiate between inflammation from Lyme vs other things? If it is not specific for Lyme, then it's not much of an indicator *for Lyme.* A quick reading online indicates that C4A is not specific for Lyme, but could indicate other things.
Not trying to contradict your doc, but to treat primarily on the basis of symptoms would make me uneasy. IGeneX will not, to my reading and understanding, produce a false positive Lyme test, because the test is positive *only* in the presence of Lyme bacteria: the test looks for DNA [genes] from the Lyme bacteria.
(The older tests, W.blot and ELISA, do have the problem of false negatives, but I have not heard of any of the three tests [W.blot, ELISA, IGeneX PCR] producting false positive results.)
As to C4A, it is an inflammation marker, so does it differentiate between inflammation from Lyme vs other things? If it is not specific for Lyme, then it's not much of an indicator *for Lyme.* A quick reading online indicates that C4A is not specific for Lyme, but could indicate other things.
She says she can do the igenex test and co infection test If I wanted to but she said because of my symptoms she would start treatment. I was just saying when all this started I was checked for ms ect....that was the reason for the mri's ct scans. ect... I started the treatment with the first two months taking doxy, cipro, and tinidazole. now i am on tinidazole, zithromax, hydroxychloroquine and septra. along with a hundred different vitamins also. She is of the opinion about the test is they are not accurate. False negatives as well as false positives so she diagnosis and treats based on symptoms. Especially in my case because I was checked for so many other things and my symptoms were classic lyme/ co infection symptoms. C4a is used a lot as a "indicater" for lyme. It measure inflammation in your immune system.
"My llmd is certain I have lyme and some co-infections. I have not yet had a positive test for it." What tests have you had, specifically, besides the C4a? I am not aware that C4a is a primary decider in whether you are diagnosed with Lyme, but I'm not medically trained.
You say, "I have only had quest check me for lyme not igenix." To my knowledge, Quest does not use the same kind of tests IGeneX does. IGeneX offers its own test that looks not at your immune system reaction to Lyme (as the ELISA and Western blot tests do), but instead the IGeneX test looks for bits of Lyme bacteria DNA in your blood. ELISA and Western blot are reliable if positive, but they can come back instead with a false negative -- meaning you have Lyme but the test doesn't reflect it. Quest probably tested you with ELISA/Western blot, since the IGeneX test is IGeneX's own creation.
MRI, to my understanding, may be useful for ruling out other ailments, but does not confirm Lyme.
You say that your doc "keeps telling me its normal to have a negative result but then take antibiotics for a few months then retest and it show up." This sounds like the doc is using the Western blot and ELISA tests, which search in your blood for antibodies your immune system makes against Lyme (unlike the IGeneX test, which looks for Lyme DNA in your blood); the problem with W.blot and ELISA is that Lyme can and and does suppress your immune system, so you can have Lyme, but W.blot/ELISA will show a negative result due to suppression.
You say that your doc "says my symptoms are more that of the co-infections like babesia and bartonella. I have not been tested for these."
There is symptom overlap with some/many of these infections. Why has your doc not tested you for these two?? I had babesia and Lyme, and my doc treated babesia first, and then the Lyme. The meds are different, and there is medical logic in killing off the other infections first.
What treatment are you taking -- which specific medications?
You say, "I have only had quest check me for lyme not igenix." To my knowledge, Quest does not use the same kind of tests IGeneX does. IGeneX offers its own test that looks not at your immune system reaction to Lyme (as the ELISA and Western blot tests do), but instead the IGeneX test looks for bits of Lyme bacteria DNA in your blood. ELISA and Western blot are reliable if positive, but they can come back instead with a false negative -- meaning you have Lyme but the test doesn't reflect it. Quest probably tested you with ELISA/Western blot, since the IGeneX test is IGeneX's own creation.
MRI, to my understanding, may be useful for ruling out other ailments, but does not confirm Lyme.
You say that your doc "keeps telling me its normal to have a negative result but then take antibiotics for a few months then retest and it show up." This sounds like the doc is using the Western blot and ELISA tests, which search in your blood for antibodies your immune system makes against Lyme (unlike the IGeneX test, which looks for Lyme DNA in your blood); the problem with W.blot and ELISA is that Lyme can and and does suppress your immune system, so you can have Lyme, but W.blot/ELISA will show a negative result due to suppression.
You say that your doc "says my symptoms are more that of the co-infections like babesia and bartonella. I have not been tested for these."
There is symptom overlap with some/many of these infections. Why has your doc not tested you for these two?? I had babesia and Lyme, and my doc treated babesia first, and then the Lyme. The meds are different, and there is medical logic in killing off the other infections first.
What treatment are you taking -- which specific medications?
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