Why?

[HelpinUtah]

I want to know why it is that when I explain my beliefs about America, politicians, etc. I get called "stupid," "ridiculous," an "extremist" or a "hypocrite" and the list goes on.  Just because I tend to have conservative views and I choose to speak out against corruption in our government and do not appreciate the government being involved in my life does not give anyone the right to attack me here on this forum or to send me PMs attacking me either.  Every single time I have offered my opinion, I have NEVER called anyone with differing views by names or put them down for their beliefs!  I simply state mine but unfortunately I have NOT received the same respect!  Perhaps when we are explaining our views we could try to remember that - and be respectful!  

[Barbarella]

Check out political Liberal sites/boards and compare to Conservative sites/boards and you will see a BIG difference as in attacking people, calling people names.

On some of the Liberal sites for example when then conservative White House Press Secretary Tony Snow came down with cancer people on the Liberal sites were saying "I hope he dies"  etc etc, when Tony Snow DID die there were posts i.e. "good riddence" other posts said "we hope they will bury him in his nazi uniform",  "who cares about this neo nazi" and on and on.  Total DISRESPECT for this man and his family.  What has Tony Snow ever done to them??  Just because he was a conservative this brave man was attacked even after his death.

In case you wonder how I found out about this since I do not go to Liberal sites, I head it on FOX and I checked it out by myself, not that I didn't believe it but I had to see exactly what was said.  I'm not like some Liberals who come on the conservative sites just to b..., raise hell and attack conservative people.  They believe different than I do, I do not go there just to argue and attack people.

Now check out the conservative sites and read what was said when Ted Kennedy not to long ago came down with brain cancer, posts like "we will pray for him" or we don't agree with his politics but we hope that he will get well".  There was not ONE post that wished him dead.  I post on quite a few political sites and know what I am talking about.

This is a free country, so I thought, and people should not get attacked for their believes and should not get by with things just because they are a Liberal as this teacher in NC did but if a conservative he/she gets crucified.

Just look what our own president does.  I'm sick and tired of him trashing president Bush whenever he has a chance yet president Bush has yet to trash Obama.  Obama knew exactly what he was getting into when he applied for the job, he got the job, and I suggest its about time that he is man enough to step up and DO the job or step down and let somebody do it who CAN do the job.  This asinine whining about Bush is so Kindergarten mentallity, all presidents inherit stuff from the previous administration however, how they will handle it shows what kind of men they are.  

Laura Bush stuck up for Michelle Obama during the primaries, Michelle Obama praised her for it.

[ILADVOCATE]

Makes sense from any direction. A "hypocrite" literally is someone has a set of beliefs and yet does not live up to them. That could be anyone from any political background. I really wouldn't know anyone here who falls into that category. I've been on political debate sites on other forums and I am only interested in debates that accomplish something productive. I have noticed some debates that concerned morality that went on for literally a year and after a while I started to wonder why the people were bothering. It was like an arguement that went on endlessly. Really both sides should respect each other and let it go. The most interesting forums are neither conservative nor liberal but just general political debates and both sides could learn from each other and occasionally do but its rare. Its a shame the internet has replaced meetings at town hall in local communities where anyone could voice their opinion in person but the reason is people failed to show up. In fact the percentage of Americans who vote compared to other countries is quite low. We live in a participatory democracy and voting is not only a right to me its an obligation and one can't say that things happenned if they don't speak their mind because if you don't put in your opinion who is there to hear it? On the other if you do you should expect respect and then give it in return. Common decency.

[teko]

I think it is one thing to state ones views, but stating and attacking because someone believes differently is a complicated thing. To even wish someone would die to me is just soooo difficult to digest. I have noticed that if someone is republican for instance, they cannot state a case without downing a dem and vica versa. I think it comes across personal somehow.  I voted Obama and do not appreciate hearing constantly what a stupid dweeb he is. When I voted Bush, I heard him put down horribly also.  No respect for the office anymore and free speach has come close to hatred. IMO

I have to watch myself because I could get upset and really lash out sometimes. But to wish someone dead? That is no better than what is going on in Iran right now. In fact I could see similar confrontations in our own country if it does not stop. It is downright dangerous and the media has done nothing but pit one party against the other, and people suck it up. I just dont know what else to say except I am sorry this happened to you.

[teko]

I did say and will again tho, that N. Korea leader needs assassinated and so does the dude in Iran. Might be the only thing that saves millions of lives there. So, that is my exception to my post. Us wishing our own dead? Just sad! How civilized America has become!

[twehner5]

You do a very good job of NOT attacking people AND of respecting opinions.  You do a good job of coming across as speaking for yourself.  I am surprised that you have been called all those names, because I have never thought you sounded mean or stupid or ridiculous or hypocritical, or any of those things you said you have been called.

Keep up the good posts and the level-headed comments.

[dominosarah]

I dont know why they do that either HelpinUtah.....maybe the same reason they dont think addicts have a right to breathe their air either........sara

[margypops]

If you look at the other threads here on the Social forum  you will see this happens to others aswell , I come in for quite a bit of it, someone even did it a couple of weeks ago on my own journal, I chose to delete it rather than have an argument  I have had a few snidey remarks today, take a look. so it isnt just you, I dont do it back I just assume they cant help it and maybe its because they are afraid...Barbarella you are so right once again,

[redheadaussie]

Isn't it amazing how people can tell you how 'wrong' you are! Yet they can not see that perhaps they are wrong too?
It always amazes me that people think they are 'right' and get so righteous about it! Reminds me of religion; why is it that almost every religion believes their 'god' is the ONLY god, and wars start. How about accepting the fact we have different opinions. Agree to disagree but not force it down our throats we are evil and doomed to die a horrible death if we do not believe in the other persons religion!
  Same with politics and other sensitive issues.
I tend to be able to observe both sides of any argument. I may keep any views about them to myself. I may also learn from what the person has presented, but I will never be rude and obnoxious to another just because they have personal beliefs.
I know my own beliefs have changed over the years.
  So, maybe HelpinUtah you may just need to tolerate these people are narrow minded and just hit that delete key if it seems they are trying to tell you what you should and should be.
   Just my 5 cents worth....plus tax...plus overtime fee...Hee hee

[margypops]

Yes I think redheadaussie  is right and dont let it get to you,dont do it back they are usually bad tempered people anyway and thats the way they are..just put your opinion in which is what you usually do, dont take it too personally I dont... in fact I sometimes have a laugh at them.

[margypops]

As was said on another thread,' I think this deserves a bump'

[hope4thegoodstuff]

I'm sorry you are attacked personally it should not happen.  Sometimes we all just need to understand that people have different ways of processing information....You hear all the time about people are type A personalities or are a blue rather than a green and there is some meaning to all of that.  So if you figure out how a person processes things, it might make things a bit easier.  Oh I'm a green, with a touch of the blue...That basically means that I like to figure out puzzles...I'm good with math (though I don't like it)  I'm kind of a loner and at the same time I want to mother everone and can be sociable.  (HA talk about being conflicted)

I am a registered democrat.  That does not mean that I am a stupid democrat.   I've always tested well.  slightly above average intelligence.  LOL.
I like smart democrats.
I don't like stupid democrats.

I have a healthy respect for smart republicans.
I can't stand a stupid republican.

Now I'll give you an idea of what I mean by stupid.
We all have opinions and we all have a right to them.  But you have some people out there that are they way that they are because of who they are...IF a parent is a dyed in the wool republican...they vote republican...breath republican and think that all democrats are bad....that is a stupid republican..(that goes the same for the dem side)
Not all republicans are right...not all democrats are wrong and anyone that comes up with those types of opinions...they don't even try to process the information..they don't listen...but they interpret anyway....they just blast away because someone from other party had the audacity to open their mouths.  That to me is a stupid person...just knee jerk reaction without thinking.

All of my opinions cannot be wrong because I am a dem.  That is not reasonable.  ( I have voted for republicans) Mr Obama cannot possibly utter only wrong words.  Especially when deep down, he seems to be a very nice man, he is a strong Christian regardles off what the stupid pubs say...he loves his wife...he adores his children....he likes dogs and Joe Biden...How bad could he be?  And he seems to be excruciatingly intelligent.

Now, I am not a fan of W.  Having said that I believe that there are things about him that are nice.  It would probably be very interesting to sit down and have a chat with him, but I am pretty sure we would find a lot to be in disagreement about.  I believe the war in Iraq was wrong.  We took our eye off the ball...but now I also believe that it may be too late for Afghanistan....so there, for me there is always give and take.  

We all have different experiences in life.  Our minds have different ways of dealing with trials in life.  That's what can make us a unique and beautiful being...unfortunately it can make us go the other way as well.  But different experiences gives us different perspectives and we should be able to speak our perspectives without persecution.  Why can't we just exchange our ideas and pull the best ones from the basket.  But what works for me in my circumstances....may not work for someone in different circumstances and that's what we have to come to term with.
What I try to do is this...
Understand that you don't have to agree with each other, and we don't have to like each other but you do have to understand that we each have thoughts and feelings...they may seem irrational and untelligent sometimes...but that does not stop them from being there.  If I could stop a thought from jumping into my head...but oops...there goes another one.....  What you can do is stop and think what to do about it.  Some folks do not have the talent to stop the thought from jumping from their fingers to the keyboard and just spouting the first thing that comes into their head.  I can't tell you how many times I have typed out a monologue such as this and  then deleted the whole thing because it seems irrational.  (and stupid)
But we should not be out here to take chunks out of each other or "score points" off of each other.  We need to express ideas and not exchange hurtful barbs...
Shoot....I did go on...and I don't have the eloquence of some of the folks out here. Sorry.

All said and done?  I like ya.  
(should have just stuck with that huh?)

[hope4thegoodstuff]

OMG...look how long that was.  Shoot.

[twehner5]

I'm still reading it!  So far, so GOOD!

[Melissa0116]

Amen.  I was a registered republican but actually changed it recently to no affiliation.  I just find some of both sides to be irrational and ridiculous.  So, I totally agree with you that we need to listen to all sides and not attack each other personally for our viewpoints.  I may not agree with all that you said but I respect your views.  Calling names and telling others they are stupid is just not called for and we all need to just be open to hearing all views no matter if you agree with them or not.  That is why we live here in America since we have Freedom of Speech.  Thanks so much for being a voice of reason.  We really need that around here.  

[twehner5]

TO: hope4thegoodstuff  AND Melissa0116

Hope, LOVED your post.  I'll start calling you Wendy - JK!!!!  I agree with what you said, and it's hard to condense it - I read till the end.

Melissa, I am a registered Republican, but I've voted for Democrats, too.  I stay affiliated WITH a certain party so that I can vote in the primaries.

My parents DRILLED it into my head even as a small child that I should look at a candidate FIRST and his/her party affiliation 2nd.

I was NOT glad that John McCain was the Republican choice to run for President.  But, I chose the "lesser of two evils", and voted for him over the LESS EXPERIENCED, Barrack Obama.  I still stand by my decision.

[Melissa0116]

In PA we have a closed Primary which means that you can only vote what you are registered as.  But, according to the State, that will be changing in November.  We will see if it actually passes since we still did not pass our budget.  My parents are not really into politics and really never said much about it at all.  I really got into it on my own by listening to others points of views and from my own research.  I also vote based on what I believe is morally right for me and my family.  I also did not care for John McCain as a cadidate for President but chose him based on what I felt was correct and right for this country.  I still stand by my decision as well.  

[twehner5]

In FL, where I lived for 38 years, it was the same as you describe....you can only vote as you were registered.  If I did not like ANY of the candidates, I did not vote for any of them.

It's funny that since I moved to WI 5 years ago, I haven't thought to notice....I thought that was a law everywhere!  Now that you point out that it is different in different states, I'm going to have to educate myself on the laws in WI.

One thing that irks me here in WI is that I can walk up the day of an election and register to vote!  To prevent voter fraud, you have to be registered weeks before an election in FL.  I think that's MUCH better.  I know that this past November, there WAS a lot of controversy about voter fraud in Milwaukee.  Huh?  Really?  In Milwaukee?  Psyche!

I almost forgot to ask....are YOU allowed to vote in primaries since you are not party-affiliated?  I'm about to go that route myself!

[Melissa0116]

You all in Wisconsin have open primaries so you can be any affiliation and vote for whomever you want.  Other states that have open primaries are:  Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota, Vermont and Wisconsin.  We are trying to get a bill passed to allow independents and non-affiliated party members to vote in Primaries but as of now we cannot.  This is what it states on our state site:

Under Pennsylvania law, independent and alternative-party affiliated voters are banned from voting for Democratic and Republican nominees.

They also are banned from voting in so-called non-partisan races, such as school board and county judicial primaries in which candidates are allowed to cross-file on both major party primary ballots. These races are often decided in the primaries, before voters unaffiliated with the major parties have an opportunity to vote in the fall general election.


It really stinks our system in PA.  Hopefully in 2010 we will get a new Governor that is willing to allow us to make our own decision on who we vote for and run this state better.  Our current Governor does a terrible job.  Our crime rate has gone up extensively and the deficit is not good at all.  

[twehner5]

Thanks!  That's funny how you got me to thinking about that.

Having lived in FL *FOREVER*, and no where else, I just wrongly made the assumption that that was somehow a federal law about how and who could vote in primaries.  Reading one of your earlier comments is what got me to thinking about it - and I thought I could almost remember that my primary ballots had BOTH parties represented.... I just never stopped to think once I left the precinct.  That's what I get!

[Piparskeggr]

Good morning;

If I may?

I have been on the "Net" since the days of the original DARPA-net and US Navy tech-net (early 1980's); acoustic modems using the telephone's handset, dial up BBS's, 300 Baud transmission rates, monochrome monitors, text only, thermo-fax printers...now, the Wierd Wide Web ,-) with cable modem, 10 mega Baud, full color everything...near instantaneous communication.

The culture online has "always" been different than face-to-face interaction.  Photons carry no inflection, no tone, no sense of emphasis...no real idea of the person behind the words.

Keyboard  Cowboys, Armchair Adventurers and Troublesome Trolls popped up as soon as did anonymous screen names and the opening of the web to the nontechnical world-at-large.

It is easy to toss off-color or barbed comments when you can not see the effect at the other end of the wires, which is why I try to type as if I have only one finger to match the one brain in my skull.  Sometimes using all 10 leads one to send out comments one would not say in person.

I am the founder of a list for folks within my faith community, which has over 300 subscribers.  We have had some pretty big blowups over the years.  This is lessened however, amongst the folks who have attended our annual campouts.  We still disagree, sometimes vehemently, about interpretations and findings, but those who have spoken with each other, shared a meal, hoisted a beer, sung around the campfire...it becomes about ideas, rather than perceptions of personality.

Perhaps, we should all remember that we can only, truly, ascribe motives and feelings, or personality traits (good or bad) to those with whom we have actually met?

be well - Pip

[Barbarella]

Very interesting!  You call President Obama "Mr. Obama" yet you call President Bush "W".  Doesn't he deserve to be called by his name??  

[HelpinUtah]

WOW - great posts everyone!  Thanks for responding - I really like this exchange of ideas A LOT!  

I agree with hope4thegoodstuff.  I grew up in a very democrat oriented area of Pennsylvania (Lower Bucks, Bristol Township) and my mother and her family as well as my father and his family were all democrats.  I was the oddball because I ended up be conservative and when I first registered did so as a republican.  My f;amily was appalled.  They couldn't believe it.  Goes to show I always had a mind of my own!  LOL!!!  Eventually, both my brothers also became Republican (without my influence) and that really bugged them all!  ;)  Anyway, what I'm saying is we all have ideologies, different morals, different preferences and that makes us the wonderful country that we are!  America is diverse and fabulous!  I just think somewhere along the way we have forgotten that we are AMERICANS first - and the rest is hogwash!  I hope that makes sense - I have the FLU and my mind is jumbling!  LOL!!!

In Utah, we also must register for a party in order to vote in the Primaries and that's why I tend to register Republican but my mindset is that of an independent.  I often vote for a democrat.  For instance, in Utah, Congressman Jim Matheson, is a democrat I could vote for (he's not in my district) - I don't agree with everything about him, but I like the man a lot and believe he does the right things for Utah and for the country.  He doesn't have an ego like many of our politicians.  

I did not vote for Pres. Clinton, but I like him.  I think there were some things he did that I was not happy about (depleting our military and stuff like that), but I believe he truly loved this country.  I fel the same way about Pres. Bush, I believe he is a good man who loves this country, but there are many things he did I disagreed with (like the stimulus packages).  So far, and I say this with a true heart, I have not found anything I like about Pres. Obama.  I can't even say I think he's a nice person.  I don't want to offend anyone who likes him and so I'll leave it at that.  But, I won't be disrespectful.  When Pres. Obama won the election I was saddened (although I didn't truly like John McCain either  and wondered how we ended up with those two as our choices - I was actually dumbounded). I really tried to be open-minded toward him when he won and decided to give him some time, but then he had 3 bills passed in the same week he took office that I had issue with and since then I have had issue with just about everything he proposes.  I feel as an American I need to stand up and say what I think is wrong - that's what our democracy is and I'm proud of that!  I am NOT disrespectful of him - he is my President and I honor the office.  I pray for him and his family every day!  

Okay, I don't even remember my point anymore - I'm blaming the FLU.  LOL!!!

[margypops]

Well I didnt think the war in Iraq was wrong at the time and most of America were wanting the Troops to go in,as far as I could see, it was only after it was discovered that there were no Nuclear weapons that the tide turned,big time.It would be  be a differant story now.,if a lot of weapons had been found.I did not like the war but I am very glad that Saddam Hussein isnt around any more to kill his own people.. it also seems to me that some people should practise what they preach,....

[HelpinUtah]

That's a whole other discussion (the war in Iraq).  I think people have forgotten when we first went into Iraq we had to come in from the bottom rather from Turkey like we wanted as well.  Does anyone remember watching CNN and hearing them talking about caravans going into Iran and Syria? I remember it and I remember the journalists stating that "our government thought that those weapons of mass destruction were going into Syria and Iran."  So, in my humble opinion, I believe that those weapons were there but taken into those two countries.  I will believe that until the day I die.  We have no proof - it's true.  But, in my gut, I believe that they were in Iraq prior to us moving in - we even found bunkers of chemical weapon suits, etc.  We found an empty van that had evidence it had been used as a moving weapons of mass destruction lab (chemical war fare).