Muscle Soreness

[Elizabeth]

Reading and responding to some of the other messages on this Forum prompted me to write my own message. Starting in January I thought I had the flu. I had all the classic symptoms; tiredness, weakness, achy legs and hands and overall yuck. The symptoms gradually decreased but then every once in a while I would get these strange shivers/tingling going down my spine out my arms and down my legs. My hands would be weak and clumsy. Gradually those went away and now I am left with a muscle soreness in my legs that is with me constantly. I have had this muscle soreness for 8 months, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I can't remember the last time I have moved my legs without them feeling sore. Sometimes (one or two times a week) they feel so weak, like i'm recovering from the flu, that I just have to sit and put my feet up because I don't feel like doing a thing.

I have done the ususal MRI of brain and spine, EMG, blood tests, Lyme tests - all negative. Physical exams are normal. I have left many a doctor stumped.

My neuro doesn't seem to think it's MS - but he can't be 100% sure. (He doesn't think its time for a spinal tap). The only other two symptoms I have is the occasional weakness/heaviness/clumsiness in my hands, but this lasts only a couple of hours and leaves. Also, I have been feeling lightheaded lately (but I also got a new perscription for contacts).

I'm sick of going to doctors - and one of them suggested that I could have had a viral infection in January and it's just taking an extra-long time to recover (hence the muscle soreness). What do you think? Does this sound like beginning symptoms of MS or just an extra-long recovery. Health wise everything else is fine. Should I start the round of doctors again or should I wait and see? Thanks in advance to any advice from anyone!!

[CCF Neuro [P] MD, RPS]

thanks for the comment.

CCF Neuro MD

[Melanie--Again--A P.S.]

Hi Elizabeth, Just a P.S. to my LONG message.  I just read the beginning of your post again and I really don't think you have that peripheral vascular whathamacallit.  Did you ever find out?  You know, when you have this stuck skin thing, the tiny capillaries that carry blood to the skin also get stuck and don't work so well.  The skin CAN feel cold and hard and it's not as pliable as it should be.  It won't hurt you, but it does cause misery.  I know I seem to be stuck on stuck skin but I'm convinced now that that's what I have and you seem to have exactly the same thing.  I keep an open mind, but I'm sure about myself.  It's the only thing that makes sense.  My left hip used to actually be cold because the circulation in the skin wasn't good.  (I know I said my general circulation was fine, but in these stuck skin areas, it's not.)  It was cold and hard and felt like a big rock under my skin.  Now the skin feels warm and soft but it still hurts, especially if I lean on it or apply any pressure.  The massage is supposed to help the circulation, too.  It's supposed to free the trapped nerves and capillaries and help us get well.  Walking is supposed to do that, too.  But it's a long haul.  We'll make it, though.  Hang in there.  Talk to you later.

Melanie

[melanie]

Hi Elizabeth,  Hope the day wasn't too bad.  Yesterday was a good day for me but today was not so good.  Don't know why.  For me, it's a lot easier knowing that we are both in this thing together and recovering together. I hope you get to be 100% but you know what I mean, it helps tremendously to know you're not alone.  Don't I wish it'd come unstuck soon!  The sooner the better.  Like tomorrow, when we wake up!  But I've accepted that that isn't going to happen--no overnight cure.  Like you, I went to a lot of doctors, but unlike you they gave me a lot of diagnoses--wrong ones.  One said anemia.  No.  One said it was all in my head.  Definitely no!  One said poor circulation.  No, my circulation is good and I didn't see how it could be poor because I had been so active--hiking, skiing, mountain biking, etc.  Well, it was fine.  Finally, after nine months, I found a doctor who told me I'd had an inflammation--we don't know how it came unless it was sitting too long in my desk chair working at the computer and not taking enough breaks and putting too much pressure on the skin and she explained about the stuck skin.  I thought the skin problem would just go away when the inflammation went, but apparently it doesn't.  If you put your palms together loosely and move them up and down--that's how the skin is supposed to glide freely over the muscle.  If you put them together hard and try to move them--that's how it is when it's stuck.  So you can see why we get pain on movement--the skin is tugging on all the microscopic sensory nerves in the skin and muscle and nerves rebel when they are pushed or pulled.  That's how it was explained to me and that's why movement causes so much pain.  Unfortunately, I was told there's nothing they can give us to unstick the skin and movement is the best thing.  I guess we have to hurt to help.  It must be frustrating not having had a diagnosis.  I'm not a medical person, but I'd bet a lot you don't have MS or ANY neurological disease.  Not that you're not miserable.  I know I am.  I was worried about a neurological disease in the beginning and my doctor said that nothing in the brain causes this.  Then I was worried about my spinal nerves, but they are okay.  It's skin!  And I really bet yours is, too.  Right now, I just had those tingles down both legs--don't get them much anymore, but sometimes--it's the nerves.  I'm not sure, but I don't think they can diagnose this except by symptoms--lab tests would be normal and I don't think an inflammation of the sensory nerves would show up on an MRI.  Bigger nerves, yes, but not these tiny ones.  My legs don't actually get weak, but sometimes they feel weak and shaky.  Not all the time, but sometimes, especially in the morning before I've moved around a lot.  Once again, I've been told it's the nerves in the skin that causes that feeling.  I can tell you, I, myself am simply tired and worn out all over from dealing with this thing!  Even though my legs feel shaky sometimes, I actually think they are getting stronger because of all the walking I've been doing to try to unstick this wretched thing.  But, yes, I've had the feeling.  What is really frustrating to me is that I walk for two or three HOURS and get it feeling pretty good, then after I sleep--it's back.  Also, I never know when I'll have a good day and when I'll have a bad one.  It's so unpredictable.  Yes, you seem to be doing the massage right.  Never go up and down--with the muscle-- or that will make it worse.  Across, toward the outside.  You want to separate the muscle fibers and the nerves.  Just go easy until you see how much your skin can take.  That's another unpredictable thing--you have to experiment to see what works and what doesn't.  I remember LAST Christmas, I was cleaning my house and just that moving around made my left hip hurt so bad I sat down in a chair a cried and took two Tylenol.  The crying got rid of the frustration (temporarily) and the Tylenol took the edge off the pain and I got through the day--again.  It's improved some, but I'm far from well.  This summer, I had to rake leaves in my yard and it didn't hurt as much, but it got really irritated and shaky.  But I can clean house now and not have to take pills. Would you believe--I was so healthy before this and never had to go to the doctor!  It's not poor health--more like an injury.  Well, that's all the new information I know for now.  You know, I'm new in this Forum and I don't know how long they let you post.  Maybe a long time.  But I'll give you my Yahoo address and feel free to use it anytime.  It's ***@****.  Boy, I rambled a LOT tonight--guess I have a big mouth anywhere.  Let me know how it's going for you--on the Forum or at Yahoo.  Hope you're having a good day.  I sure do hope yours clears up completely but it IS easier to get through the misery when you're not alone.  From what you've described, we have the same thing.  Well, take care and let me hear from you.  In the meantime, I'll keep good thoughts in mind for both of us.

Melanie

[Elizabeth]

Hi Melanie - Doing a little better today. When I woke up this morning - I didn't move a muscle - and I had no pain or soreness and it was like being 100% again. Of course the second I moved my leg muscles flared right up. UUGGHH!! They feel OK today, but for some reason they are a little weak. Do you ever get that feeling that your legs won't hold you up or when your standing they just feel like they might give out? I think i'm definetely having one of those days. I did a little of the massage last night - I don't know if i'm doing it right - all I am doing is kind of kneading my muscles out (not up and down) - does that sound about right?

None of my doctors have ever made a diagnosis on me - but it seems pretty weird if we both have the same symptoms. I wonder how long it's going to be before we both get "unstuck".

Thanks for your well wishes and your caring - I think dealing with this is going to be easier knowing that we are going through it together - let's be unstuck soon!!!!! Elizabeth

[melanie]

Hi Elizabeth,  Let me know how you're doing.  Mine's a little worse today, but not horrible.  Hope the massage didn't irritate.  It takes a long time to get well from this, but I know we'll both make it.  Let me know.  I feel like we're sort of recovering together.  Makes it easier and I wish us both well.  Hope to hear from you soon.  

Melanie

[melanie]

Elizabeth, I know EXACTLY what you mean!  Exactly!!!  Maybe you did have an inflammation, like me, and now the skin is "stuck" to the underlying muscle just like mine is.  Not the skin we can touch--the tissue that covers the muscle--it has lots of nerves that can cause irritation and pain, pain, pain.  When I walk it hurts, too, and the more I walk the more it hurts because the stuck skin doesn't want to glide over the muscle freely.  But I've been told that walking and swimming (or water aerobics) are the best thing for getting it unstuck and ultimately reducing the pain.  I have to drag my butt outside every day, too, for a one hour walk.  It hurts, but I do think it's helping.  PLEASE do the massage carefully and GENTLY because it can irritate.  I did it Saturday morning and it was irritated all day Saturday and some on Sunday.  Today, I feel much better.  It'll come back when I sleep, though, until the skin gets completely unstuck, but each time it gets a tiny bit better.  It's frustrating because recovery is so slow--and it hurts!  Good luck with the massage.  Go easy--I sure don't want you to feel worse.  The fact that the mile walk caused pain and then, today, you feel okay is just like mine, though.  Exactly.  Let me how you're doing and GOOD LUCK!

Melanie