Questions about 'Thought Therapy'

[Yidori]

Hi everyone.  I'm hoping I can tap some minds and other's experiences here on this "Thought Therapy" that was posed to me as a way to help my husband deal with his pain outside of medication (or along with).

My work offers some nice counseling services during working hours and I stop in on lunch breaks a few times a month to talk to people there (and they are just people who volunteer, no doctors).  Most of them are very nice, but not clue about CP or Pain Management.  Still, just talking can be nice for me as a supporter.

I saw a new lady today and I have to admit that she seemed a little.. well... she seemed to see the world through 'Rosey Glasses'.  The kind of people who make everything seem so simple when it's not.  The kind of person who tells you "well don't" when you say you feel a panic attack coming on.  Still, I'm willing to work with anybody no matter what they are like if it will help my husband with his CP.

Here is what she said, "You know how sometimes you are driving and something distracts you, like remembering a task or the song on the radio reminds you of a memory... well when you come back to yourself, often you are miles away and have navigated traffic and lights without even being aware of it.  Your subcontious took the wheel and did the work for you without you having to think.  That same concept can be used to push pain behind other thoughts so you don't really feel it, even though your body is still feeling it."

I laughed... she frowned.  I didn't want to offend her so I was quick to smile and say "yes I know what you mean, but pain is not liking driving a car, it is by it's nature something that forces itself into your awareness.  It's meant to tell you that something is wrong after all.  It is a nice thought, but if it were really that simple, then half of Chronic Pain patients wouldn't need medication at all.  The could just 'do something else' instead of feeling pain."

She nodded and said "well, yes, pain can be agressive with your thoughts, but it doesn't have to be that way.  You can train yourself to ignore it.  To make it less important for your focus until it is just back ground noise.  It is really only difficult when you can't pin point the pain or if it isn't localized, but otherwise it can be done."

So I asked the important question "Ok, how does a person like my husband learn something like that?  He practices Bio-feedback and meditation, but his emotions have made it hard and even after a year has only made things a little bit more tollerable.  One panic attack or reminder of something he wants to do and can't because of pain, he ends up back in bed and misserable.  What should he do differently?"

She couldn't give a good answer.  She just said he wasn't working at it hard enough or was expecting too much to happen too fast and giving up.  I can't exactly dispute the giving up part, it wasn't until his CP that he ever had to work on being more patient (he's was the kind of guy when he used to work out would say "there should be a pill that takes off this weight faster!"), but he has worked very hard and changed his attitude.  The pain isn't going anywhere, he's got more than enough time to practice things.  If you told him this is 100% sure to help you not feel your head pain, you just need to do it for a month, he'd take all his vacation and say LET'S GO!  I mean really, who WANTS to be in pain all the time?  No one says "yea, that's ok I'll just let it go thanks!"

Has anyone ever heard anything like this?  Or is this lady just a little off her rocker?  It sounds like a take on Bio Feedback, but she kept shaking her head and saying this is different.  Bio feedback is letting go and accepting pain, this is distracting yourself from it until it is way in the background of your awareness.

I know at least I have a funny story and example of just how un-educated some people are.  I asked her if she did this herself and what pain she had, she told me she had carpal tunnel (sp?) in her wrists and had surgery.  Also that when it is getting ready to rain, her arms and legs hurt in her joints.  Then she sort of bragged about not having to take over the counter medication for anything and how amazed her doctor was that after surgery, she didn't need pain meds, not that she had a problem with them of course.  

[Tuckamore]

Hi Yidori,

Wow! I could write a book just responding to encounter with the woman who sees pain and problems through "Rose Colored Glasses."  I question her qualifications in treating pain management patients. I'd also like to know how many sleepless nights she has spent in chronic pain and how many careers she has lost because she could not function? In my opinion she hasn't got a clue. These are solely my personal opinions.

Yes I do believe that therapy can help with pain control and I also believe that having a positive attitude is helpful.. We go through the stages of grief and loss when we have extreme CP that  changes our lives.  It's important to reach that acceptance stage in Chronic Pain.

Biofeedback and meditation can be an effective part of pain management but thinking yourself out of pain is pure bologna. I think most of us have better days and during those times we can distract ourselves. It's those rare moments that you may describe your pain as loud "background noise."  But believing this is can be an everyday occurrence is at best ignorant, again in my opinion. It's like saying that if you have diabetes you can think yourself well. It's no different. Chronic Pain is a disease just like diabetes.  

I'm sorry I missed the post you are referring to on "Thought Therapy."  It is a new and extremely controversial treatment. Rejected by the majority of the medical and mental associations and professionals. According to what I have read the Inventor states it cures PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) at 100% and does so immediately. I don't buy it nor does the the American Psychological Association that has stated that it "lacks a scientific basis."  It's a series of specialized "tapping" with the fingers at meridian points on the upper body and hands. There's a bit more to it but believe me if this really worked everyone would be cured by now. Who wants to have CP or PTSD?

My father didn't have any pain meds post op spinal surgery accept the one dose I made him take from the nurse  before I left the hospital for the night. No magic thoughts. He just had a strong constitution. My husband takes nothing for his painful joints and generalized discomfort... again he has no magic thinking or thought therapy.

So in my humble opinion I think you ran into a very (Chronic Pain) uneducated person. I could say more but I've said enough and have expressed my point clear.Others may disagree with me and that is certainly their prerogative. These are just my thoughts.

Thanks for sharing.
~Tuck  

[Yidori]

Thanks Tuck.

I totally agreed with you.  I think she just made up "Thought Therapy" especially if it refers to a totally different thing!

This weekend I had a flare up of my own (doctor thinks it is SJD which you've put so much information out there about THANK YOU!) so I sat down with my husband and said lets see what we can do thinking, reading, watching TV, and such, since neither of us were going to get much done.  Lets see what works.

I tried to think my way out, and yea that woman is just WACKO.  I could think of something else for maybe 30 seconds until my focus switched, the pain just came right up into my head screaming, 'hey whats that feeling along your pelvis, and how about your legs, they hurt too...' and I don't even feel all that bad unless I'm bending over!

I've had family and former friends tell my husband "oh just stop it already, it can't possibly be THAT bad" out of frustration, but they don't really believe that he can do that.  They are upset because they too want it be like it was before the pain started and they are quick to back peddle when I mention how unfair a thing to say that is.  

For someone who doesn't even know me or has ever met my husband, why on Earth did she get into therapy and psychology I wonder?!  I can just hear it, "hey your depressed, well think happy things and you won't be depressed... so it hurts to walk and you can't go to the park, well just tell yourself you feel fine and you can go walk int the park when ever you want."  I mean there are people and times when you have to practice some tough love and stop them from feeling sorry for themselves, but if you can't tell the difference?  how about you don't assume that is the case!

I like your quote about the diabetes, I'll have to save that one if I see her again.

My husband had the best though after I told him about it (we were both lying awake unable to get comfortable).
"you better make sure she has car insurance, apparently she thinks it is ok for her subconscious to drive around your job site!"

[Tuckamore]

LOL.... I love your husband's sense of humor. It's a must when you have CP!! Now that you are more prepared and armed I hope you do see the Wacko again. :o)

Ppl just don't "get it" as I have said repeatedly.... unless they have been there. I won't downplay the importance of therapy or learning to live with and accept the fact that one has Chronic Pain.
But therapy won't cure you and it won't take the pain away.

When ppl are faced with something they can't comprehend it's so easy to offer advice and suggest that you are depressed or need therapy. When I was a new, young health care professional I thought I had a lot of empathy for my CP patients. When they requested their pain meds I dropped what I was doing (when possible) and nearly ran to give them the medication. I listened and tried to help. I never suggested that therapy would sure them or that they were just depressed. Many of my colleagues were not as empathic. However now that I have CP I realize no matter how hard I tried back then `I truly didn't "get it" either.  

It take a lot of strength and character to live with CP... remind others of that when they suggest he just "stop it".  How can anyone believe that we want to have pain, want to take medication daily, give up activities that we love, struggle financially because we can't work as we once did and so on??? ... How can ppl really believe that of someone they know and supposedly love?

Sorry to hear about your SIJ Flare!! I'm in one now... no Fun!!

Hang in there...  you and your husband will be in my thoughts.

~Tuck

[Jaybay]

I wouldn't say she's a total whack job but she's definitely not educated about chronic pain.  Don't waste your time!

They can call it Thought Therapy or meditation or whatever BS label they want to put on it - none of it can cure pain.  The idea behind it is to distract yourself from the pain enough to where you can focus on something else for a while - even if it's only 15 minutes.  

Meditation is something you have to practice and relaxation techniques should be taught along with the mental exercise.  I've done it for so long it's pretty much auto-pilot these days.  On the days that no medication will touch the pain, I can meditate myself away from it and usually get a couple hours of sleep.  By the time I wake up, the pain is down to a dull roar.  Oddly enough, I'm most successful when the pain is at its worst.  I use the pain as a focal point.  Kind of like, "OK, you have my attention.  Do your worst.  You can't kill me!"  

Your husband reminds me a lot of me when I was new to CP.  I wanted a clear roadmap back to health and I wanted it right darn now.  It wasn't until I accepted that wasn't going to happen and that THIS was my new life that I started living that new life.  Expect your husband to bounce around mentally for some time until he can reconcile what he wants to do with what he's physically capable of doing.  

Celebrate the good days and get through the bad days as best you can.  For me, I look at the bad days as having a different kind of job.  Meditation and relaxation are part of that job.  The I promise myself that I will get out of bed the next day and do something even if it's only walking to the mailbox or taking a tour of the gardens.  Anything but sitting on my can all day long and thinking about how rotten my life is.  

We still have brains even though we have pain, which means we have something to contribute to ourselves, our families and others.   I have so many research projects going on now it's ridiculous.  Never did I expect to have the time to devote to these things so that's one real joy in my life that I can thank CP for.  So is music.  Getting involved with the music ministry at church has truly saved my sanity in the past few years.  There have been times I would never have left the house had I not had Sunday services and rehearsals to attend.  Music is a great distraction and I find that while I'm singing or ringing bells, the pain can't keep my attention.  Everything else falls away and it's just the music.  Anything you can do to stay connected to the real world is a huge victory.  

Think baby steps!  You're both in the process of building a new life.  It doesn't have to be a curse.  :-)

[DanKashner]

One thing she and you might want to consider is that anyone with CP for any length of time that doesn't medicate themselves to death or go completely bonkers, probably does already practice some sort of thought therapy, meditation, etc. possibly without even knowing it.

And I say this because when I was turned on to meditation, I was like ... I've done this. In fact, with some minor differences, I've been doing this for a long time. Then I learned the techniques, refined my actions, got better at it, and most people can't tell when I'm doing it now. I initially thought it was a total crock, but I get it now. Like the poster above, it's on auto-pilot. And it's just one coping mechanism in my toolbox.

But no ... meditation alone can't take the pain away. It can help you deal with it, though, and that's where I find strength.

So, what you want to look for are the small things. The daily minutia. How did he cope today? If it was a bad day, how did he handle the next? Did he fall back into his routine right away? I bet he's doing something already, and he may just need help refining it and tuning his technique. For me, the hardest part was getting over the fact that I thought it was a crock (and, you know, the way some people describe it / think it works *is a crock*, like the lady you spoke to).

Meditation doesn't take my back pain away, but it does help me keep my sanity. I may still be grumpy, I may still reach for my meds ... but with a little hope restored. I can do it. It's not so bad. And when I absolutely need help, I can get it.

[Yidori]

You two are so good at this =D

I'm so glad I found this site and can share it with my husband.  It really does make a difference.  Jaybay, you remind us very much of my husband's mother (which is a good thing!) in spirit and words.  We lost her six years ago to a combination of liver failure and infection.  She was involved in a car accident and left with back injuries which turned her into a CP sufferer and ended her career as a dental hygenist, which she loved.  She continued to work for a minstry that provided dental services to those that couldn't afford it until she passed away suddently one afternoon.  My husband and I were far away for all of it, married and starting our own home.  I think my husband could have learned a lot from her if he had been around, but such is life.  He certantly misses her, but he doesn't 'mourn' her.

We went and saw my husband's PCP yesterday for a follow up.  We wanted his advice about what we should consider since my husbad's PMP had left the practice, and the doctor they assigned him to, he just doesn't have the time to listen and work on changes or new medications.  My husband needs to be with the head doctor for the study on the implant, but the head doctor is just that... he has way to much to do and not enough time to sit even for 15 minutes with each and every person.  My husband's PCP has a his own practice, just him, but he listens and cares, but he also won't take any crap either from my husband, which I like.  We agreed on a sort of compromise.  My husband continues with the PMP for his meds and will plan on staying in the study, but we will also see the PCP for guidance and questions on the rest of his treatment.

We decided together that we should taper off the patch down to a quarter of that which he is on, (though his next PMP visit, we won't break contract) or off entirely.  The PCP suggested if my husband wants to go back on and give it another go, that he needs to do it slowly.  He told my husband he kind of shot himself in the foot asking to double it in one month.  He increased too quickly, on his pills and the patches.  

The PCP told him, "the doctor did what you asked without warning you, not that you would have listened at that time (we all chuckled, it's true), but I wish you had come to me or gotten some advice about what would happen so you knew what you were in for.  You are not doing yourself any favors increasing like that or taking extra.  The hole only gets deeper and your brain just isn't capable of keeping up any more.  Not much we can do about the pills.  If it helped when you cut your dose in half for a week, that is good and you can try that when it is feesible, but you are just going to have to work on other ways to lessen the pain.  I suggest keeping the dosage you have until we find something else that helps you, take less when you can and do NOT take more.   Understand?  I'll turn you in and we go off entirely, if that is what it takes to get you to keep on track."

My husband agreed and said he's ready to try some other medications (not pain meds, other things that won't break contract).  He is going to give them full trials this time instead of just taking it a few days then saying nope, give me pain pills because they work.  It is interesting to see how much easier it is now that the pain medication just isn't an option.  PCP told him the new PMP cut him off for good on increases and for good reason, he can only go down.

While we were driving back to work I asked him if was really ok with this, or was he mad that the PCP didn't have any plan for fixing things right now.  He said "well of course I'm not ok, everything in me screams I want it gone now, but look I know it just isn't happening.  I can't sit and wait for someone else anymore, can't blame the doctors anymore, well I can for SOME things, but not the pain.  I know it, I got to work on it myself and it will take time.  I'm not just going to be hunky dorry right out of the gate."  I told him that wasn't exactly what I meant, I was more worried about him giving up.  He shook his head, "I'm got going anywhere, I know I've said it before and been in that dark place before, but no.  There ARE reasons for me to keep living, even if it is with this."

His new job is going well too.  His boss was very happy to let him work from home in the morning, (he's up between 3-5 each morning) and then in turn letting him leave the office around 3.  Work is both a comfort and a distraction to watching the clock, and as the evenings are often harder (his pain increases the longer he is awake), he can be home again to play games or watch movies, things that help him cope.

[saraberry555]

LOL, oh this is great,that's what we all want to do, think about something else. Lol right...Yeah you guys said it all already, this is just you know it's not funny for us in pain, to listen to some lady like that. but it's funny it's laughing help my serotonin level that i feel something else with the pain.  Yeah you can laugh and feel happy, but your still gonna be in the pain so, yeah but I cant think my way out of it, no one can if they really have the pain. So some Jack head came in and said " oh well i can think my way out of Pain" i wonder how much money he made to say that, but you know if your a wife of a man in pain, make him laugh anyway you can, Happiness is the key to life, Pain or not