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6 year old defiance
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6 year old defiance

My 6 year old daughter is so defiant sometimes I just don't know what to do with her.  She misbehaves to the point of being "grounded" - what we call a time out - for anything from not listening to hitting someone.  Once she is "grounded" she continues being completely rude until her grounding becomes an all night thing.  She throws toys down the stairs, pees her pants on purpose, come down stairs repeatedly, hits us, yells, tells us she hates us, destroys pictures she's drawn for us tries to bite, etc.  
The peeing her pants on purpose one is the one that upsets me the most.  
While she is continuing to be defiant I have tried ignoring her, giving her longer time out time, taking toys away, everything I can think of and she just doesn't stop.
We base our family on positive reinforcement, with her it just seems to be making things worse!
Does anyone have any suggestions that may help me get her to the sweet little girl she is most of the time?
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Avatar_f_tn
I am seriously at my wits end with her.  My other two kids NEVER act like this.  I have NEVER spanked them...I don't know what to do anymore. I've even driven her to the local crisis shelter but couldn't drop her off.  PLEASE does ANYONE have an idea.  It gets to the point where I hate myself for having to spank her and I get depressed.  I seriously need some advice here.
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi,
I just wanted to say that I have your daughter's twin here.... my six year old daughter.  We are the same...try to use positive techniques, etc... nothing works.    She does not seem to be able to listen or stop - like she is possessed.  omg.  It is horrible.

It is ironic.  We are two peaceful people who NEVER spank, hit, etc....we are pretty mellow people and do not know where this anger comes from in this little girl.

So, we have just been thinking this is part of adhd.   Well, someone asked if she does it at school or not.  Well, not really.  She is only there for 3 hours in the am and then the after school care is to be 3 hours too..   But no hitting anyone and no anger stuff for the most part at either until we arrive then she is REALLY MAD like she HELD IT ALL IN AND HAS TO GET RID OF IT.  She was sent to the principles office for disobeying a teacher one time.  Yes, she is just in K and already went to the principles office but it was for crying, not hitting.   But, she saves the WORST for us.
She tells us that she has all of this anger and the only way to be rid of it out of her body is to hit and attack us!?!?!?!

She is also extremely intelligent, and VERY Creative and loves other kids.  She is often charming even.  She can be the funniest and sweetest girl...but the tantrums are unbelievable.  She almost levitates she is hitting, screaming, jumping, and attacking so hard.    We are SOOO GLAD she usually does not do it in front of other people and that she does not hit anyone but us.  OMG, SOOO THANKFUL FOR THAT!!!
I am SOOO AFRAID someone is going to hear her AMAZINGLY LOUD screaming and call the police.  It is like she is being murdered.  Sometimes she does this in the middle of the night when she wakes up and will not go bavk to sleep.  We finally got so fed up we told her that smoeone was going to misunderstand her screaming and beating us and call the police to investigate.  She still does not stop.  We take away toys, we try to do time outs but she is so big (4'1") and SOOO Strong that I can barely carry her to a time out.  She hits, scratches and beats me all of the way to her room and follows me right out.  I am afraid she is going to hurt herself and I am afraid to hold her in her room.   I am very afraid of hurting her while trying to hold her because she flails so much.
WHAT CAN WE DO?
I think we have tried it all!?  But maybe someone has some idea.  We have tried 123 magic, the explosive child, etc etc... we tried time outs, toy removal, positive behavior charts, ignoring her, walking away and turning our back to her, being tough....etc...   If anything ever works...it is ignoring her or toy removal but most of the time she is so out of control that she does not even hear the toy loss part or anything else.
People STARE.
She has one trick she pulls that specifically bothers us.  When we pick her up from school she starts throwing a tantrum in the hallway out to the car....long long hallway.  She sometimes HITS ME yelling that she wants a toy all of the way out the school halls...with other kids and parents watching.  IT IS SOOO HUMILIATING.  (she has never gotten a toy when she behaves like this, EVER)   Then she will stand screaming holding me hostage in the parking lot and WILL NOT GET INTO THE CAR.  IF i try to pick her up and put her in she starts hitting and screaming and yelling HELP.  Ok, people around us look like they think I am abducting her and it is soo awful.  Sometimes it takes 20-25 minutes to get her to the car and into it.  People do not understand.  It is soo horrible.  I feell sooooooooo sick for hours afterwards.  She does this to her dad too.
I personally have aged about 20 years in the past 6 years.  I cannot take much more of this.  Her father is getting REALLY DOWN and REALLY SCARED for her future.  She used to only beat me since i was the one with her the most often, but now she beats him too and he lets it get to him and it breaks his heart.  
I hvae never been hit by anyone in my life except my daughter!?!!!!
We are desperate.  
We are in Oregon....if anyone knows of any physician out here that can help us...please let us know.  
When she is not raging, she is a great kid and would never hurt us if that makes any sense.  She is loving with animals and with babies and can be trusted around them...just fyi
We love her and would do ANYTHING to help her that we can.
Thanks for listening if you made it this far.
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Avatar_f_tn
Wow...sounds like we do have twins.  My daughter never does this in public though, it is only at home.  It also sounds like we have the same ideals when it comes to parenting.  Please keep me posted because i have no idea what to do..
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Avatar_m_tn
If you are taking toys away, I fear you misunderstand what "positive reinfocement" is.  When a behavior leads to the reaction of something being taken, it is negative.  "Positive reinforcement" is a concept that has been misconstrued by nature of what it sounds like it should be...a happy hippie kind of discipline that avoids anything negative...and it is anything BUT this.  If you want to be consistent in using positive reinforcement, you need to add something to the future consequences of a certain behavior, such as a spanking.  So that we're clear; taking a toy = negative reinforcement.  Giving a spanking = positive reinfocement.
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Avatar_m_tn
CamsMom81, I normally don't post comments but I HAVE to correct you in what your idea of "positive punishment" is.  I am an accomplished dog Instructor and have taken many classes regarding Positive Reinforcement.  It is not spanking.  Spanking by definition would be a "Positive punishment" (giving something negative to decrease the re-occurance of a behavior).  Taking a toy away would be "Negative Punishment" (taking something away that the subject wants to keep).  Positive Reinforcement is giving something positive as a reward to increase the re-occurance of a specific behavior.  For example, if my 6 year old (who I am also experiencing defiance with), just randomly agreed to something I said (ex. I ask "can you please help fold the laundary", She says "ok") I will give her something that has value to it (in her case a stone that she puts in her jar - once she earns 35 stones, we get to go buy a hula hoop for her).  The stone in my daughter's case would be Positive Reinforcement.  Negative Reinforcement would be if you take away something negative which in turn reinforces the good behavior.  For example, in the above scenario of asking her to do the laundary and she does so without whining (finally), I would take away something she feels is negative (ex: the ban of being able to call a friend - I would allow her to call a friend that night).  Does this make sense?  Positive Reinforcement IS NOT spanking... remember that is a form of punishment (Positive Punishment).  If my daughter had disagreed to help me fold the laundary and started to have a fit, I would exercise Negative Punishment by taking one of her prized stones away.  Now she has to earn more stones to get the hula hoop.  Does that make sense?  I honestly try to stay away from Positive Punishment as it never really works for me anyway and I have never been able to bring myself to spank her (trust me though, I have REALLY thought about it).

Maybe taking a "clicker training" class for dogs may help you with you daughters.  I'm not saying this to be disrespectful, I honestly feel there are concepts you could use with your kids that you could learn in a GOOD animal training seminar.  I've also been discovering TAG teach which is basically clicker training for people.  TAG = Teaching with Acoustic Guidance.  

Don't get me wrong, my daughter is just starting her defiance stage at almost 6 years old and I am at a loss.  That's why I'm hitting the internet and looking for support and ideas.  I think I'm going to take my own advice and look more into the TAG teach approach.  Good luck to you!
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