Husband cheated - please help

[justme779]

I feel like I am living a nightmare!!!! Last week I read about a massage parlor question and if that girls husband or whatever is getting just a hand job she is lucky. I knew my husband used to go to those places but Friday night I found out he went again - yeah it was a hand job (BAD ENOUGH!!!) but we FINALLY laid all our cards out on the table. He has gotten a hand job about 24 times in the 4 years we are married - but it gets worse. When we were first married he got the whole package three times. He said that he felt that was wrong and stopped and then he took the hand package. He again stopped that for the most part but went the other night because he was stressed about losing his job. He wanted to tell me everything and start all over - infact he wants to renew our vows. He also swears to never go again and will make sure I know he does not by making me control his $$ and he'll check in at all times on the way home. Besides that we talked about why he went in the first place. (1) He really wanted a good massage and one thing led to another (NO EXCUSE)- so he asked that now only I give him a massage, (2) He felt alone as I am often busy - so he hired me a maid, joined me up for his gym and wants us to do things together - even going away to sporting events with his friends. He'll hang with them to do the sport but then we'll stay in our own hotel and have our nights and (3) the sex got boring - he asked that we talk about what we both want to spice it up. He also said that he never once kissed or did anything with a girl as he never wanted another relationship - it was only quick fun. He is not kidding himself - he knows he was 100% wrong and is blaming no one. FINALLY the question - do I give him another shot with all these changes and believe he can be good or do I leave him??? I never minded his porn and I did not like his website browsing which he stopped - but this has me feeling empty. Does it matter that it is he who told me everything  - not sure.

[freakin-natural]

well ok, he has opened up .. lucky you.. not all of us guys has the guts to tell it all.. he had lay down his dirty shirts, now its up to to you if you would still accpept him or not.. but it was a wonderful action he did right there.  as far as i can see it, he wants a new life.. free from anything obscene.. now, since you know him more ,i cant just say go leave him or go stay, its you who can feel if he is sincere or not. .. its your life and his that's on the line.  now its up to you if you would just wreck the 4 years of marriage or build it up like a new couple ready to go againtst all odds (nice song there, hehe).  we are not perfect ya know... sometimes the only to see change s to give it a try...

good luck & god bless you

[barn babe]

I don't hold out a lot of hope here, unlike "freakin" (interesting screen name, though).  Something about this story bothers me. Sounds like it bothers you, too.  

Why would you want to do "everything" with your partner? Does this include shite you don't like doing? What I'm hearing is now the guy has some sort of weird control issue going on - all of this  was his idea, right? That bothers me as well.

I think it's a set-up for failure. I guess you either have to trust the guy when he's not around, or the two of you have to come to a conclusion about what you both can  do outside the relationship. If he says he's turned over a new leaf or whatever (sorry, but that sounds  as lame as anything), do you believe him? And if you don't, how can you possibly stay with him?  

I don't think this guy trusts HIMSELF.  He is handing over control of the money, control of his time - pretty much control of everything. What's he afraid of?  That he'll step out again if you DON'T have that kind of control over him? Doesn't sound good, frankly.

Do you really want a marriage like this?!  It's your decision, but the "laying out of the terms" as he's presented them just sounds weird. I don't think he's "turned over" a new anything. He's probably terrified he's going to do it again. You can't control his every move. Nor would you want to. Would you?

[barn babe]

Sorry, senior moment. I forgot something - get yourselves into couples counseling. You might be in over your head at this point.

I still don't have much hope for this marriage, but counseling might bring you out on the other side. Good luck.

[pertykitty]

with the hand jobs and the whole package (im guessing sex) counts as cheating 27 times. ok it didnt take a brain surg to figure that out, but from the sound of your post you dont really see it that way. i agree with barn. he is using any power he has to get you to not leave. 27 times!! in 4 years if i remember reading that. do that math. it wasnt a one time thing. honestly was he like this in other relationships? and let me tell you, you go to get a massage and 98% only do massage my guess. so if he wanted a hand job, he went to a place that he KNEW would give it to him. and you dont go to a place like that to just get the knots worked out. i think you need counseling for yourself at the very least. your esteem has to be down, and your head clouded with his lies. there really are somethings that cant be fixed. and by attaching yourself to him wont fix. we cant all be together 100% of the time, and if you do- i imagine the trust will start to come back, and he will go off by himself. honestly if my dh did something like this then asked me to renew our vows, he would have one heck of a black eye and possibly some papers to sign.

[freakin-natural]

well ok LEAVE HIM , HE's GOOD FOR NOTHING......


are you happy?

i dont know but sometimes, we have to let the woman decide for herself.. since its her who feels freaky ... were here to suggest.. it was mine and it was yours.. and how come my name was mentioned.. im a freak who wants to save relationships... may it be from a disaster or pure hell.. but in the end.. THOSE TWO GUYS are still the ones to decide.. not us.. never us..


p.s. all he needs may be your support and care.. show him how much your ready to be there for him.. now if it doesnt work.. DUMP HIM, bite him, kick him, etc.

[barn babe]

Okay, "freakin," now I understand the screen name. Because YOU are freaking. Calm down, for f*ck sake. Nobody is "attacking" you. Don't you think we KNOW that the OP is going to do what she wants no matter what a bunch of internet yahoos think?  Chocolate christ on a  popsicle  stick, you act like she's some kind of alien pod who can't make a decision about her own life.

This is choice, though:

"p.s. all he needs may be your support and care.. show him how much your(sic) ready to be there for him.. now if it doesnt work.. DUMP HIM, bite him, kick him, etc."

Complete sentences would be nice. However, if I'm reading you correctly (not easy to do, admittedly), you are advocating that she bite him and kick him? That's cute! But wholly inappropriate. What's with the black eyes, the kicking, and the biting? If you and "pertykitty" have pent up aggression bottled up, go out for a run or hit a punching bag. Violence doesn't solve anything. (See my recent post about violence being inherent in U.S. society, though.  If you are not an Amerikan, however, you can disregard it. But you still have issues.)

Take a Valium, "freakin."  Just count to 10 and breathe. It's all good. You need to learn not to get suicidal if somebody disagrees with you.  We're all just dumb-f*ck internet yahoos here. It's all meaningless, in the end.

[pertykitty]

and here we go again, the black eye comment was a joke. humor. barn you need to get some of that. you really need to relax with all the name calling. i think we can all share our opinions, and that is all they are, without temps rising or spewing profanity. maybe we could all just give our opinions without bashing the other posters.   "pertykitty"  (love the quotes)

[barn babe]

Sorry, but that humor went over like a lead balloon. Maybe I've just spent too many years doing pro bono work for sex workers and women in abusive relationships who were on the receiving end of too much violence. Jokes about violence do nothing for me. The visual imagery of it is off-putting. I don't like it when men make jokes about violence, and it's just as offensive when women do it. I happen to be a pacifist anyway, so, yep, your "humor" was lost on me.

But I think humor about violence speaks to the cavalier attitude we have about violence and physical abuse in this culture.  Maybe something for you to think about. If you haven't been the victim of violence, haven't seen what physical violence does to people's psyches, their spirit, let alone their bodies, you may be  oblivious to how such "humor" comes across.

[baby_onthe_way]

You know you can ask for advise and I don't blame you.But you have to make the decision that suits you best.No one should tell you to either leave him or stay with him.That's all on you.My opionon is that once the trust is broken time after time it's very hard to repair.Trust can be built back up but it sounds like from what you told us that he doesn't have enough respect for you his wife to stay faithful period.I'm sorry hun but a handjob to me is still cheating,if another woman is giving it to him.Why doesn't he just do it himself or have you do it?That would be the right way to go but he clearly can't concieve the right way.I feel if you do decide to remain in that marriage you might have forgave him but you will never forget.It will always still be there and you will always second guess where he's been or where he spent that extra 100 dollars so have you.That is sad that a man can be so selfish and only think of himself then his own wife and make excuses for doing the wrong things he has done.There isn't any excuse that is a good enough one to allow or excuse the things he has done.I do not have massage parlors here and I am thankful for that.But this man has major issues and you are to good to sit back and take his **** again time after time.It's one thing to make a mistake once."Shame on you" but make it twice"Shame on me" or over and over then you are only proving to yourself you can not do better then him or you have settle for whatever reasons.Taking control over the funds isn't going to prevent something like this from happening again.And I think you know that.Now grow a back bone and stand your ground and be strong not weak.You decide what's best for you, it is your life.Good luck and I hope you do not back down on whatever decision you decide to make.

[justme779]

I started reading responses but have to leave for work .... I'll be reading from there - BUT you hit on something that I said to him ... I can not and will not police you. He feels that he knows he will not do it again - he said that talking so much and seeing the pain it caused has made it that he could never do it again. He thinks though that I may not be able to trust and wants to offer anything I need to trust. And we agree we can not do everything - he just feels though that he wants me to know that anything I want to be a part of - I am. No more "guy" trips - now it's our marriage first and we as a couple join others. Okay I am off to work... I was NOT debating waht you said - just adding things. I was crying so hard last night that I really did not know where to begin or what to include. It was so hard summarizing it all on one input screen. I wished you could just all come over and talk around the table. Again I'll be reading all the future posts and I thank you all - right now it is amazing but just knowing you are all out here helps. I need someone to talk to and I am too embarrassed to talk to friends. He can not understand why I am embarrassed as he says I am innocent and he is wrong but still I am.

[pertykitty]

you a pacifist with your anger and namecalling? interesting self image you have.

[BearHitch]

There are things that barn babe said and pertykitty that I agree with.  First, it doesn't sound as if he trusts himself- is he trying to convince himself he can by giving you so much control?  Also, that is a lot of times going with not telling you.  Within 4 years of marriage, I would expect him feeling like you're too busy for him and those things to surface- instead of communicating with you, he finds it elsewhere.  And this all started at the beginning of marriage.  While you could do marriage counseling and all of that, I wouldn't be surprised if there was more he didn't lay out, and from the sounds of your post, I wouldn't be surprised if you could never fully trust him or forgive him.  You'll always be wondering.  That's no way to live.  He had his chance and betrayed you- what was it, 27 times in 4 years and its just now coming up and ONLY because he was caught?  I have to agree there isn't much hope for this marriage- I personally think you deserve better than this!

[anxiousmomtobe?]

I personally would leave him....

He has beeen cheating on you for years and having sex with others puts your health and indeed your very life at risk.

And he is paying for sex, thereby objectifying women and helping support an industry that is rife with violence and abuse.

Saying you are "too busy" and "the sex got boring" is in essence blaming you.  He is not taking responsibility, he is fast talking you into believing you are to blame because he is a bad man.

What a jerk......

You deserve better.

[RockRose]

I agree with Anxious,  I personally would leave him,  too.  But again,  this is totally your choice and your life,  and you can do whatever makes you feel the best.  I would DEFINITELY not have any children with him,  because I think the odds are overwhelming that he will go back to cheating at some point and then you'd be left hanging with a dependent child.

Best wishes.

[slow_healer]

Hmmm, a lot of opinions on this post.

To the original poster: I wouldn`t necessarily give the relationship up (if you *want* to stay). Yes, there are some control issues here (like him giving all that power to you) but I would recommend getting him some therapy. IMO sex is often a symptom - NOT a cause - of underlying problems, whether they be simple or complicated. If you have hope for your relationship, then try addressing these first, and aim for an outcome that is more balanced for you both (it`s not going to work long if you have to be in control of everything ALL the time).

I would agree with f-n on that it is tremendous that your partner came so clean with you. That would be humiliating for anyone to admit. Part of why it might have carried on so long was because it was something he had to hide.

As far as leaving him goes, I think the majority have given you plenty of advice on that :)  Good luck!

[justme779]

I asked him today why he wants to give me so much power. To see what was behind his thoughts. He said that he is trying to do anything to make me feel okay enough to stay long enough for him to prove himself. I asked him if he needs my help in controlling him and his answer was no - he needs my help in to understanding what I need for him to prove all that is over. I explained it will take time and he responded that is the thing - how does he earn that time from me. I then asked why he is so willing to give up his friends. Will their doings make him want to follow? He said no - but that he is trying to put himself in my shoes and knows he would not like me hanging aound with that crowd. Weird thing is the whole bunch of em live this way from what he now admits. They think these pleasure they grew up indulging in are okay as there is no emotional ties. Insane. I asked him why he thinks diferently now. His response was that when he married me he loved me but thought he was acting like a nomal married man - over the years - he's learned what being a real husband is. It's so hard because we have been together so long even before marriage and he was always there - when my Mom had cancer and we were not even maried or engaged he paid all the bills with me. When my dog died he was coming to meet me at the vet with 104 fever. I always thought he was my best friend. Somehow that Brooklyn double standard bullsh*t appeared okay to him. Oh the thought process gets stranger - one guy picks up in bars - that he thinks is horrible. Again because it is emotional. I asked - how do I know taht you are telling me everything - he offered to go for a lie detector test if I want. He also offered counseling. I thank you all - this is helping so much!  

[woozy]

this answer has to come from inside your heart. i read all the posts and i think he geniunely wants to change. And he's right, this cheating has not been emotional cheating,but purely physical. he still feels guilty though as he should, but as he has been upfront and honest with you recently, you may want to give him another chance. he's giving you the reins because he wants to regain your trust. I do believe that. You have a marriage and that deserves a bigger fight than what others may believe. He screwed up, he's human, he's now being fully honest with you about this situation. i think he deserves another chance. and most importantly, you love him..so do what your heart tells you.

[justme779]

My head has been spinning but yes you are right - I still love him. I always have. He treats my daughter better than any biological father I know. He travels close to 4 hours a day back and forth to work so she can go to the top HS in our area. And he works to ensure any college she wants is a possibility. Don't get me wrong I work hard to and would make sure she went anywhere but he is right in there with me. And I know he loves me. He messed up so so sp very bad but he does love me. He was a sworn bachelor before we met and I think he is right he did not know how to be a husband. He continued to do things he was doing from his youth. This board has helped so much because it calmed me down and made me ask just the right questions to see what is in his heart. Oh I'm not saying - whooppee happy day. There is certainly alot of work but I really believe that if the tables were turned he'd walk out mad but be back within days for the fight. Even when we thought I too was sick once he said that if anything was ever wrong my daughter would always have him and he'd make sure my every wish was carried out.That's waht hurt so bad. I never expected him to fall from being what I considered the perfect husband. Again I have alot to think about but loving him is a given.  

[slow_healer]

Hey justme, it does sound like your husband does genuinely want to change things. And I can only imagine how many feelings you're feeling right now. Give yourself some time to process all of them before you make any big decisions. Some people might say you should make a decision now while you're good and angry, but that might only lead to something you'll later regret. If you think there's a chance you and your husband can get through this, don't get bitter.

And take him up on his offer to seek counselling. Whatever the reasons, sometimes admitting these kinds of things to our partners is the HARDEST because they are the person whose judgement we care about the most. It hurts the most when we feel like our partner is hurt/ashamed/angry because of us.

Men are often under A LOT of pressure from other men as to how to behave like a "real man". I think it's a world that we women aren't always aware of, just as men aren't always aware of the cutthroat gossip-ridden environment that women can find themselves in with other women. It certainly goes both ways. Your husband really articulated that in "he thought he was being a normal husband". Of course, his parents may have role-modelled certain behaviors

He might not think the sex is boring or you've gotten unattractive at all. Those can be reasons other men invent to persuade him to "go along" with the group. e.g. Come on, aren't you tired of your wife? That kind of stuff.

Anyhow, I'm not condoning what he did. And it sounds like he's fully aware how much it would hurt him if you had done the same thing. I would say if he's taking full responsibility for his actions, give him another chance, and seek counselling together (sometimes when there has been cheating in a relationship the hurt partner develops behavior patterns that constantly punish the cheating partner, and what people see is a miserable, disfunctional relationship - don't become that!). If you two have love for each other, you'll probably need to burn through a lot of intense angry/hurt/scared feelings before you can come out on top. Good luck!

[justme779]

Everything you wrote was very insightful - but one thing in particular really hit a mark..... guy pressure. My husband was supposed to go with the guys somewhere the other night. He told them that he was passing and he actually told them that I know about the massage parlors. Well they freaked as in their minds he broke the code of silence. I'm sure they are worried I'll talk to the other wives. He explained to them that he wants to be a real husband, he is not telling them what to do - but is just taking the right roade himself. He explained that he was passing on going out as we have been talking alot and he thinks he should be home dealing with things with me. It meant alot that he stood up to a group of guys he's been with for 20 years now. A group that thinks their bond is stronger than the promise of marriage. I saw it as another step in he right direction.

[slow_healer]

That's a really good sign. I bet he's been wanting to say these things to "the guys" for a long time.

If my own story is any insight, I had an ex who cheated on me while we were long distance. He was working in a very testosterone-charged envrionment at the time, and he wasn't a particularly aggressive person himself. One of his many excuses was "you don't know what it's like to be working here", suggesting that pressure from the guys contributed to his decision to cheat. I also got a taste of the influence of those guys friends myself during the breakup, where they called me all sorts of filthy names and would not let me talk to him on the phone, saying they'd deal with "this crazy b****" and things like that. In these situations, you really think about how (other) men can be a**holes.

I certainly could not agree with his choices, but it did make me think about how would I feel if I were in that environment everyday.

Hang in there, justme!!! Based on what you've shared, it sounds like you and your husband are on a good road.

[slow_healer]

I also wanted to add that with my ex it was like he developed a double personality. I could tell when he had been talking to "the guys" because it was like he was somebody I didn't even know. I wonder if you had a chance to see your husband alone with these guys, he'd probably be wearing a mask and acting macho just to fit in. It sounds like he's been under a lot of pressure you weren't even aware of.

If you two can work through this, think of how it will make those other men feel. If they're all scared about what would happen if THEIR wives found out, I'll bet they'll feel pretty small to see that your husband has a REAL relationship with his wife that (until they come forth with honesty) they'll never really have with their wives. They might make fun of your husband for not going to the massage parlor anymore, but your husband will be a lot more relaxed feeling like he's not living a double life. Good luck, justme.

[justme779]

Oh my God - that too is so true. When they see my husband do something sweet they say "You have to show hand in the relationship!" or something like that. And he said they were recently bashing him that he is going to pay my daughters college with me - apparently they think that is my responsibility - not his problem and he should straighten that out right away. They can not understand why we keep everything joint.

Thank you for taking so much time out to talk to me. You made me feel so much better.

[slow_healer]

Hey justme, I am so happy to help!!! Post anytime :)

I know a lot of posters have given you advice to leave, but I think it's too EASY to run away when problems like these come up. These are real life problems that happen, and we can't just remedy everything by leaving our partner. Especially in your situation where it sounds like you do already have a foundation of love and respect with your husband. People do screw up (lol, check out the abortion thread and the debate on that!) Sometimes we are stuck in a situation without the tools we could have used to make a better decision.

Definitely still go for counselling, but it sounds like your relationship with your husband is undergoing a lot of positive changes :)