Still a virgin, deeply depressed.

[EVP]

Just recently I had to go through a security clearance screening thing where I had to answer the most horrible questions about my personal life. Amongst many things, they asked me about my sexual experiences and, to my great embarrassment, at age 33. I haven

[BearHitch]

Two quick things... first of all, there is nothing wrong with being a virgin.  I realize people may disagree with that, but why it gets such a bad rap is beyond me.  I didn't require people I dated to be stellar or experienced in  bed, and I don't understand why others do.  But from my point of view, there is nothing wrong with being a virgin.

I understand that you have trouble communicating with the opposite sex, and maybe barn babe is right that trying an internet route would be a good start for you.  You could get comfortable with someone and hopefully then be more at ease when you do meet.  I met my husband on the internet.  Like you, he did not have any sexual experience and since he was in college, just kept his nose in his books and drank a lot.  Didn't really hang out or have any female friends.  He's a much different person now- sometimes it just takes meeting the right girl.  

I would not recommend jumping into bed with someone else just to see if you can do it.  Its like mayflower said, that would be your first experience, and you may regret that if you meet someone truly great that you wish you would've waited for.  There is a chance of STDs whether you sleep with an escort or anyone else.  

[EVP]

Thank you for that attack, it was quite wounding. I was trying to pay you a compliment for your more supportive prior post. May I respond to some of your points?

I have NO bias towards people with depression, whatsoever. I did not mean to imply it. I have never really suffered it before and so don't know how to assess my current state. Everything is relative. To say that I am clinically depressed my be an insult to people who really are. Only a professional could assess that, I guess.

I said that I cannot be labelled with 'clinical depression' because I would lose my job, that is all. I put the term in quotes, as it is an official medical condition here in the UK and would go on my medical records. I cannot see a GP about this, because a record WILL be made, and the security people have access to my records (oh yes, you have to give your permission). If I lost my livelihood that will not help.

I can still function, and am not self harming etc., and so I was making a self assessment of 'mild depression'.

I am not homophobic in the slightest. I had a gay friend a while ago, and went to a couple of ‘gay pubs’ with him. Would a homophobe do that? Freddie Mercury is my hero! I was simply trying to say that it hurt when people misinterpreted my lack of a girlfriend.

You said, “What else? Well, let's see. How about these?  Your approach? Your body language? Do you make eye contact? Do you have B.O. or less-than-adequate hygiene? Your general or overall disinterest in others? Your depression manifested by the look on your face, perhaps you look depressed, sound depressed, give off a vibe of being in general somebody who isn't attuned to the needs of others or doesn't give a rat's a** about others? “

I have good personal hygiene. I wasn’t depressed until I suffered the interview. I care about others. I think it is my shyness, mainly.

You said “you don't want to do the dirty work of examining  how everything about you adds up - your personality, your behavior, your attitudes, your intelligence, your empathy level and ability to laugh and enjoy life - all of it adds up to who you are and why you ended up in this situation. Your looks are the least of it. “

I started out in my first post by saying that I have been analysing myself over and over. It is difficult to impartially judge yourself. I will be seeing some private counsellors.

It is funny, but I know people who behave terribly (to others and their girlfriends/wives), have bad attitudes to everything, apparently zero empathy levels and don’t really seem to enjoy life – yet still have partners. I know a few people who I guess have been single all their lives, much older than myself, and have great personalities and are really nice people.

I’m not ageist, christ! I was simply saying that I have no problem talking to women when I have no fear that my interest is misinterpreted as a sexual advance. To make a sexual advance as a male risks rejection. I think this is what I fear. I don’t see women as a ‘sexual threat’, but women do not like unwanted sexual advances.

I don’t want to be a superstud, but I would like to be less ugly. The nose job might help me feel less self conscious.

If I had a girlfriend, I would ‘bang her’, as you put it.

[barn babe]

"I have to disagree about the drugs. I am loath to take drugs for anything, unless they are really necessary."

I also don't use drugs unless "they are really necessary." In your case, it sounds  like they might be, but only a psychiatrist or internist can really make that determination. A therapist could also suggest it.

"I don't think I need them, but a doctor could advise."

Yeah, join the club. Diabetics say they don't need their insulin, hypertensives say they don't need their blood pressure medication, and heart patients say they don't need their beta blockers. Whatever. Clinical depression is a chronic condition. It's recalcitrant to treatment with talk therapy. St. John's wort, the only "over-the-counter"  "herbal" remedy for it, is shown to be somewhat effective in cases of MILD depression. What's left? Oh, yeah, "self-therapy." Where you actually get off your a** and try and take action to deal with the issue that is making you depressed.

"Unfortunately, I can not allow myself to be 'clinically depressed'."

You don't have much choice in the matter. Clinical depression has origins in the brain, with neurotransmitter misfirings and chemical imbalances. Throw in the environmental factors, like relationship stress, job stress, internal personality conflicts, what have you, and it's a recipe for an emotional tailspin. Your quotation marks around the words "clinically depressed" also indicate  your apparent bias about such a condition. I guess it's one thing to come on a medical forum and say you are depressed beyond  belief, but when push comes to shove, playing the resistance card perhaps make you believe you can save face or somehow not appear "crazy."

"Actually, some former colleagues and acquaintances had me down as gay, which really hurt (nothing against gay people!!!)"

No, of course nothing against gay people. People couch their homophobia in all kinds of ways. Sure thing. We understand. Yep.  

"I have reached a state where I don't know how to set up 'dates'. Many women seem to give negative signals towards me, even before I open my mouth. I always put this down to my looks... What else?"

This comment indicates you apparently have no tools at your disposal to do the work necessary to "climb out of your moderate depression" on your own. Folks up thread gave you plenty of suggestions for how to deal with this. I would go back and re-read those.

What else? Well, let's see. How about these?  Your approach? Your body language? Do you make eye contact? Do you have B.O. or less-than-adequate hygiene? Your general or overall disinterest in others? Your depression manifested by the look on your face, perhaps you look depressed, sound depressed, give off a vibe of being in general somebody who isn't attuned to the needs of others or doesn't give a rat's a** about others?  

" Hence fixing my nose - which I broke when I was a kid - it's a nose a boxer would be proud of!"

It's not about your nose. But it's your money.

"What else can I conclude, but that my looks repel?"

You are obsessed with the looks thing. Maybe it's easier for you to chalk up all of your relationship problems and your being a virgin in your 30s (!) to your looks. I don't think so. You can use it for cover, but it's starting to come across as simply a lame excuse for why you don't want to do the dirty work of examining  how everything about you adds up - your personality, your behavior, your attitudes, your intelligence, your empathy level and ability to laugh and enjoy life - all of it adds up to who you are and why you ended up in this situation. Your looks are the least of it.

" The message is so basic how can anyone assess my personality??"

That's your interpretation of the situation. Who the f*ck knows why people don't answer personal ads? Maybe they are overwhelmed with responses. Maybe you were too boring. Maybe you didn't ask about them. Maybe they lost your email. Maybe they got tired of it and never responded to anybody. Maybe maybe maybe. Who knows why?

"I am hoping the nose correction will give me that extra spark of inner confidence"

Yeah, good luck with that. I'd be interested in finding out if in fact it changes you into some kind of super-stud with chicks coming  out your ears, but I have my doubts.

"then I can get a hair transplant .. (joke! I'm going bald to boot!)"

Baldness is from the mother's side of the family. Not much you can do about it. Bulletin: Bald men get laid. Nothing new here.

"I enjoy the company of older women, as they probably don't see me as a 'sexual threat', as I don't them."

Everybody has preferences, but what the hell does this mean? Not a sexual threat? WTF?? You'll have to define this for us.

Mature and emotionally stable men do not view women as "sexual threats." You clearly have problems going deeper than your broken nose. If this is the way you perceive women, it's no wonder you don't have a girlfriend and don't date. I don't know what you are implying by this comment being aimed at "older women," but it sounds  like a backhanded way of showing us your ageism. That's rather unbecoming, to say the least.

Sounds like you have underlying fears of women. Jesus, wasn't there another virgin on this forum recently who wouldn't even bang his girlfriend? There are more of these guys around than I thought. Bad  news.

[EVP]

barn babe. I am very impressed by your post. You are very astute in your analysis. Still, I have to disagree about the drugs. I am loath to take drugs for anything, unless they are really necessary. I don't think I need them, but a doctor could advise. Unfortunately, I can not allow myself to be 'clinically depressed'. My clearance could be revoked, and I'd lose my job and everything, which wouldn't really help!

Also, in a way, my 'moderately' depressed state is enough to spur me into action.

I don't believe I am socially inept - around men. I crack jokes, have laughs and enjoy conversation. But around women, I guess I'm very poor. I guess it stems from shyness. Actually, some former colleagues and acquaintances had me down as gay, which really hurt (nothing against gay people!!!)

I am too serious a lot of the time, maybe too 'intense'. I need to lighten up.

I have reached a state where I don't know how to set up 'dates'. Many women seem to give negative signals towards me, even before I open my mouth. I always put this down to my looks... What else? Hence fixing my nose - which I broke when I was a kid - it's a nose a boxer would be proud of!

I went to an all boys school, which hasn't helped. At uni I was so self concious about my face, that I dare not approach women. I've tried on line dating things, but never get any responses. I post a simple message, like "Hi my name's 'x', I'm 33, I do this, a bit of that, I like this and that" and a photo - and get no responses to my messages. What else can I conclude, but that my looks repel? The message is so basic how can anyone assess my personality??

I am hoping the nose correction will give me that extra spark of inner confidence .. then I can get a hair transplant .. (joke! I'm going bald to boot!)

I enjoy the company of older women, as they probably don't see me as a 'sexual threat', as I don't them. They say nice things, "like you should get a nice girl" or act surprised when I tell them I'm single. But younger women seem to steer clear!

[barn babe]

Sounds like you might be ready for medication for your depression. If you seriously can't climb out of this downward spiral you are in, I'd seriously consider it. I don't know what they offer in the U.K. in terms of medications for it, but there are a couple of generations of decent antidepressants out there that should do the trick. (At least in the U.K. it'll be free, unlike in the States.)

I've mentioned this somewhere else around here, but the only virgin I ever dated was one of the strangest guys I've ever met. His social ineptness was off the charts. He was around your same age.  I'm not saying you are like that, but as time goes on, this kind of problem appears to compound on itself. The longer you go without dating and interacting, the less you want to do it, the less confident you become, and it all ends up an  enormous quicksand pit that you can't seem to climb out of.

You're right about one thing - depressed people are generally a drag to be around. I've dated a few of those.  It becomes apparent after only a few dates. The biggest problem is that they are unable to give back - they are emotionally "blacked out," if  you will, so that they can't often project any empathy or  caring to those around them because they are wallowing in their own depressive morass.

The other problem with depression is you can't take action on your own behalf - whatever is troubling  you continues to trouble you, and  you become paralyzed and not able to attack the problem. In your case, this appears to be personal relationships.

Medication can help you climb out of this downward spiral. It can get you mobilized again. Then you can start feeling better and  making decisions about how you want to approach the problems you have with women, or self-esteem, or whatever they are.

I also want to retract my statement about the nose job. I think you should forget about it until your depression is under control.  Going under the knife is a bad  decision to make in the throes of a clinical depressed state. You'd best  get your emotional life under  control first.

You say you have  financial means - get yourself therapy and  start working on this sh*it. And get a professional consultation on whether you need to be medicated or not.

[mayflowers]

Maybe some people will think you're strange or abnormal for being alone, a virgin, not married, but from what I've seen and learned in all my years,  people that go through lots of relationships or married people are not any more normal than someone who has only had one lover or no lovers (as in your case).  Being married or in a relationship is not a sign of normality.  Anybody, in my opinion, can be married or in lots of relationships.  It just depends on what you will settle for.  Maybe you just don't want to "settle" for just anybody.  You want someone with brains and who is a good match for you.

I can understand that when they asked you questions abt your sex/romance life, how uncomfortable that made you.  It would make me feel the same.  However, you must realize, and I can't stress this enough, that the fact that you have never had a sexual experience nor been in a relationship is nothing to be ashamed of.  The fact that you are questioning the reasons for your singleness is a good thing.  But, like I said before, I know so many married people and people who have had tons of relationships and most of these people are very unhappy with themselves and life in general.  Heck, most of them seem a little "abnormal" to me!!!!

If you want a relationship, I believe you can find someone.  You just need to be open to the prospect of a relationship.  I hope you find what you are looking for.  Good luck!!!