Women with low libido - sexless marriage - please help this guy

[kendalmintcake]

Hi,

I've been married for a while with kids.  I'm pretty sure I'm one of the nicest guys around - loving, caring helping guy - take care of the kids, make dinner, do laundry, treat everyone with kindness and regularly express my love for my wife and kids.  However, I'm struggling with the fact that my wife never extends any intimacy.  It has been like this for years and years and I'm coming to my wit's end with it.  I'm getting to the point where I just frankly dislike sex, why?  because it makes me feel like a dog begging for it.  I get shot down 9 out of 10 times.  I try to space it and what ends up happening is it happens maybe 4 times a year.  It is torture.  I think my wife is beautiful beyond belief.  I haven't even seen her naked in months.

Why is she doing this to me.  She knows as I've told her that intimacy is important, but still, manages every night to  be asleep minutes before I'm done tucking in the kids.  If we have a night off, she's sick with one of about 5 rotating ailments.  We'll go for a nice dinner, spend some time walking around hand-in-hand, then as soon as we are alone, she avoids me like the plague.  I feel like a rat.  When I hug her she simply balls up.  She absolutely never hugs me.  I feel like that monkey that scientists deprived of a parent and it latched onto a fury mannequin for comfort.

I can't live like this.  I've read many people with similar issues, six months later they post that they broke up and are happy as can be.  Prior to busting up they expressed they steadfast efforts to get to the bottom of things, with patience, willingness to change, but that seems to evolve into despair and extreme disappointment at the neglect they feel.  Yes, I feel neglected, I'm made to feel like I'm sex obsessed.

Now with that said, if somebody can relate let me know what might be going on here.  It has either got to be hormones (ie, a medical thing) or, she just is grossed by me, I wonder sometimes, is she gay?  I don't know.  All I know is that I'm sad.

Thanks

[kendalmintcake]

I am myself for sure in therapy and I love it.  Couples therapy could indeed happen!

[Londres70]

I can completely understand you not wanting to "put everything out there" so to speak; that's why I suggested seeking professional help with your situation where you are in a private setting behind a door talking with a therapist.  There are alot of layers here that need to be "peeled back" and examined.  

I just view someone's marriage in trouble as being serious.  

Hope you find your way through all this.  

[kendalmintcake]

Actually, I was just trying to be light-hearted humor so I'm sorry you took it as sarcasm and sure I understand now that you are identifying this as your opinion.  It ***** a little for me now to know that I'm coming off to others as sarcastic and speaking in riddles.  If it sounds like riddles, I can see that, but also understand there is is indeed some things left out here because I'm a bit uncomfortable spewing out all the things we've dealt with that contribute to our situation.  They are very personal things that I don't feel belong on a public board.  A few others know what I'm referring to because I told them in personal messages.  One thing I want to make clear  is that I treat my wife with utmost respect so just answering your concern about 'I hope you don't speak to your wife that way'.  On a personal level, we are very close and treat each other with admiration and dignity!

Je  vous remerci!

[specialmom]

Thank you Londres dear.

[Londres70]

Specialmom said it all in a "nutshell" once again; you are truly amazing!

I am not going to further focus on my sarcasm remark because that's the way I have viewed the poster's initial post and some of his replied threads/posts; that is MY opinion or MY view as I am not here for others to validate or not validate my view because it is indeed MINE.  

I hope this poster finds his way and wish him all the best.  Therapy is very much in order.  

[specialmom]

Good point!  LOL  Yeesh, and I was trying to sound all smart and all. .  .

[kendalmintcake]

Lol, at least you didn't say ."I must be 'dence' to spell impotence as impodence" and blow it twice!

[specialmom]

I must be 'dense' to spell impotence as impodence.

[specialmom]

I'm going to agree that there is a way that you write that makes me wonder about what you are looking for and why I didn't post.  Whether it was sarcasm or seeming to not be authentic.  But we never know as we only get a snippet of info and 'personality' from these kinds of posts.  This isn't to knock the poster but if you are sincerely looking for feedback, I tend to agree with Londres.  

I think that much of the time, when a couple is experiencing difficulty with intimacy, it is a barometer to other things in the relationship.  Often, a couple that has an underlying issue will have this problem.  An example would be that she feels like she is never fully heard by her husband and begins to resent him.  Another example would be if he is a social butterfly and she is a home body and she wins out with the couple being at home much of the time and he is growing bored.  These most likely don't apply to you but just examples of other problems that seep into the bedroom.  

also, it is well known that stress and being over tired will cause issues with imtimacy.

If one partner, and usually the woman, has had childhood trauma, it often shows itself later in adult life with a pulling away in a sexual way from their spouse.  Some gain weight even to put up a physical barrier between their partner and themselves.  

As you mentioned depression----------  well, yes, ssri's and antidepressents in general can cause a drop in libido but so can depression that isn't fully treated.  I know with some antidepressents, they will offer an idea of a 'drug holiday' in which a patient would take a half dose for 2 days over the weekend and not dip below therapeutic levels for their mental health issue but lessen the side effect of lack of libido or impodence.  Talk to your doctor about this.  Won't work if you are on a controlled release type of drug but most generics aren't controlled release and that is what people tend to take (generics).  

Now in all seriousness, I need to be reminded how old your kids are.  I had an issue after my second child was born for about a couple of years in which I had a low sex drive.  I was really tired with my two boys that are 15 months apart, had little time for myself, often had food on my shirt and swear pants on (sounds sexy, right), etc.  My husband did the best thing by taking the kids for me and letting me have breaks on my OWN!  And then when he came back, I was very greatful and able to show it.  And in truth, after those first couple of years, my libido returned and I felt more like a woman again rather than just mom/caretaker/sex provider.  

One other feed back, we are all intelligent folks here and it isn't men's view verses woman's.  It's just opinions.  And believe it or not, we have other men who post here besides just you.  You are very welcome to the forum and we are glad to have you but this isn't a sewing circle or something archaic like that.

Okay, so I do wish you luck.  Marriage is work--------  and that is for sure.  By the way, marriage therapy an option???

[vintagequeen]

I respect Londres a lot, however.. I didn't really sense any sarcasm. I think you are trying to not come across as a sex fiend.. I do see your initial post as a vent more than anything which is totally welcomed.
I am sorry your wife isn't as grateful to you when you take her out on these nice retreats. I can definitely understand your sexual frustrations as we all need to have intimacy on some level, you love your wife dearly and it hurts you that she doesn't show you the kind of intimacy you show her. It's not as though you are some chauvinist pig or something. I agree with Londres about the couples therapy, it doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with you.. It will help the two of you come to a conclusion as to what the issue is.

[kendalmintcake]

When you say sarcasm, do you the blab comment?  If so, I'm making fun of myself.  Now I'm interested to know what particular things sounded sarcastic...so I know for myself so I can be aware...

[Londres70]

So sorry for the interrogation.  I normally don't ask that many questions, however, I felt your initial post was more of a vent vs. giving more pertinent info about your marriage.  Plus, you gave little background info in regards to your wife; plenty of comments about her though.  Not to be rude, it was a bit difficult to read through your sarcasm.  I hope you aren't using this sarcastic tone with her.  

I am just getting the feeling you are leaving something out of your story;  just a feeling I have.  It's like you are giving vague responses and you are talking in "riddles" at times as if not to expose too much.   Perhaps you both have issues that you all aren't willing to address.  

After dealing with this for years, sounds like your marriage is at a fork in the road and I think there are SO many issues that are contributing to this that should be sorted out with the help of a therapist to try to save this marriage.  You all are definitely out of touch with each other.  

Have you ever sought counselling at all?  Couples' therapy or therapy for yourself?  

[kendalmintcake]

Londres, umm, yeah, out history is wrought with plenty of issues, both of us actually.  Meds are quite integrated, depression for both of us is a family thing.  No doubt that ssris are one big factor - they are libido elimiators.  Up until I finally started them (should have been on them last millenium not kidding here), I at least could alleviate my drive fairly expeditiously, now, they've made in near impossible to proactively level myself out - yes, ok, I'm talking about masturbation here.  Sorry girls, I don't mean to taint the thread - it natural aight!, we all do it, ya know, spank the monkey, whatever - yes, the vision is gross - blech, .... SO!, moving on...now, I'm left with a lesser sex drive, but one that kind of must addressed via classic means - sex

You have a bunch of questions - in a nutshell, we've been married over 10 years together for almost double that, our kids are just in elementary school.  She eats minimal decent food, no excersize really, generally in good shape - an amaaaazing figure with very little effort.

Well, to your point about exhaustion, that is one huge complaint.  The thing is, what else can I do to help alleviate that exhaustion.  I get it, it is majority mental exhaustion - nagging kids wipe you out.  The other day I purchased two massages for us and arranged a baby sitter, I said, we need a break, her response was a look of confusion and 'oh, um ok', I was kind of dissapointed at that reaction - it's like c'mon!!! are you upset at getting a break because you won't be able to complain...that's how it feels.  Look, I get it, it is reallllly hard, fatigue is horrible, the last thing you want it a slobbering dude panting and salivating over you.  But man, c'mon, here, the longer he waits, the more and more difficult it becomes to think, no, don't get desperate, organize something instead, concentrate on quality time, it is really something we dudes forget to appreciate and we are the ones who suffer, the sex will come in time.  

I am able to think like that, I'm able to have a nice dinner out with no action after, months down the road, eventually, I'm going to not really feel compassion for fatigue - coz guess what, I'm tired too.  If you feel like a sex object, then I feel like a broom, a utility that just keeps the machine running.

Alright, blab, blab, blab -

This is back and forth right, you kind ladies get my pov too - hopefully you don't mind a bit supplementary material ;)

[kendalmintcake]

Hi Ku,

Totally interesting post and I am so privileged to hear these little morsels of information.  You know, she has mentioned before, 'I feel like he is getting more handsome and I'm getting less attractive'.  That actually sort of broke my heart.

You know it so very hard to remember that other people are constantly feeling different that you.  I recall a time when I came into our bedroom and she was up on the bed standing with a pair of jeans in such a way that she could best view her butt.  She was a bit shocked that I came in and had a look of fright.  I said, omg, you're all worried about your butt and your secretly checking it out in the mirrow - don't worry it looks great.  At that point a sincere 'your so nice' came from her lips.  I recall thinking, I'm glad that happened, it should reinforce my simple honest love for her.

Back to your point about kids and self perception.  I thought about this and the comment she made, so what I started doing recently was to be a bit more open in public with displays of affection.  I know that for her (other women, men everybody) recognition of things by complete strangers is important.  So, I've been much more unrestrained in giving a big hug and kiss on the forehead while waiting in line or just hanging with friends.  Honestly, I've noticed a boost in ego from this and actually, I like it.  For me, I like feeling as though I'm making a proclaimation that this girl is mine and I'm gonna kiss her here right now and if any guys is jealous, that you can feel the pain bro and I don't care if this pda makes you suffer!

[kendalmintcake]

Hi quiet girl.  There's a lot going on that can't be splurged out in one or two threads, but you are on the ball. Amazing - almost clairvoyant you are.  This particualar topic affords me much sympathy to the situation which is why I'm somehow able to practice extreme patience and understanding.  the trick is dealing with it all the right way.  I've messed up royally in the past, strangely, what I'm learning is that the other person gets better if you focus a bit on yourself.  I think the reason is that we often project our own issues onto others.  So, whenever confronting someone, even in the best of interest in helping the person, we can easily screw it up thanks to the weaving in of our own projections.  When we look at ourselves first, deal with our own issues first, it seems to cleanse the discussion floor.  So regarding past trauma, it is not my job to pry open that shell.  What I do feel is my job is to somehow instill a sense of comfort that if it were to open, the contents would fall into caring arms.  I just wish I could somehow figure out how to instill that sense ...

[Londres70]

Have you all had any other major problems in the marriage before this?  Anything traumatic or upsetting happened in her life that you are aware of?  

Does she take care of herself?  i.e. exercise and eat properly  Any medical conditions?  Is she on meds?  She could have some underlying medical issue.  

How long has this been going on?  

Exactly how long have you been married and how many children do you all have?  Does she work?  

She could just be plain exhausted especially if she is middle-aged.  

I know once I reached my forties and dealing with early menopause my hormones dipped a bit wrecking havoc on my sleep, sexual drive, energy levels, etc.  It finally has tapered off; thank goodness.  

Sounds like it could be a combo of factors, but if she isn't really interested in sorting this out......hmmm...I am not sure what to tell you except that you will have to decide whether to live with this or not.    

[ku111]

I have to wonder if this isn't much to do with you at all.  Hormone imbalance comes to mind (over years) and I have to wonder if it's not herself that doesn't feel deserving.  How does she really feel about herself?  Sometimes men change very little (only in my opinion) and well women change and age a little more sometimes.  Only my perspective.  The body changes with kids and life.  Can be hard sometimes.  I really think you guys need to talk.  I have been married for 20 years and my husband is just as handsome as ever and I feel old and unattractive.  I know he loves me very much and it's all good but things about myself have definately changed.  Just wondering.

[thatquietgirl]

I agree with everyone it could be a hormonal imbalance, but the way she seems to extend NO sort of intimacy, not even hugging, makes me think she could have had some traumatic incident sexually in the past and it started cropping up a few years ago and since she hasn't dealt with it, things continue.  This is a hard thing to ask and bring up.  Sometimes, it's best not to because if it is a case of molestation, she doesn't seem at the point where she'd answer truthfully and it may only cause her to pull away more.  Maybe suggest marriage counseling, and she can go in and see someone on her own too if she so chooses.  However, it may be a lost cause.

[AnnieBrooke]

Talk to a therapist yourself if she will not.  You need to be able to talk to her from a blame-free sounding place (even if you don't really feel blame free), so you two can problem-solve together.

You're right that a man will translate a woman not being interested into a "how can she, she knows I'm a man and sex is very important," kind of statement.  But her problem is doubtless more complex, and being indignant is not going to open the doors to conversation about it.

In the end, if she won't talk it over, you should consider whether the marriage is worth it compared to having a satisfactory physical relationship with a woman.  I don't recommend divorce lightly when someone has children.  But if she is not happy (and if it's not physical -- she should DEFINITELY rule out hormone problems) and you are not happy, both of you deserve to try to find a world where there is some happiness.

How old are your kids?  That will play into it also.  And can you afford to support two households if you split up?

[vintagequeen]

Well I do hope things work out in your best interest! Feel free to private message me if you wish to talk or vent or whatever.

~VQ

[kendalmintcake]

Hi Vq, I don't think it is intentional either.  My first post as a spewing out of essentially how it feels.

Um, aren't we all on meds? lol, fyi, I started ssris recently, my libido crashed.  At first I think, oh GREEEAAT, now we'll be on the same level.  That aside from just feeling fantastic after a long bout of not even fully understanding that I was depressed and to what extent.

We've talked about it before, how probably meds are the cause, but then there is always this invasive element of 'you know, it is not that abnormal, its common for women to not want it, why, how about so-and-so, she never wants it from her husband' - that comment feels like she is saying, sorry, pal, that's reality, just deal with it.

What is so very aggrivating is I'm the type of guy who just loves the company of women, not because I'm gay, not because I'm scamming or perving them out, I just have always love the low key machismo-free atmosphere that women create.  It is ammmazing and refreshing and uncompetative and intellectual and rich and fun with emotional content.  So you get how completely frustrating it is that I can't quite figure the right state of mind in confronting my wife about something so important and enriching in an otherwise wonderful relationship.

What I will say is the more disappointed I become the more challenging it is to discuss, so I guess, step one of this who-know-how-many step program is don't discuss anything in a distressed state of mind.  Get it together first...

[vintagequeen]

This all sounds suspicous of a hormonal inbalance. I would suggest she have her hormone levels checked (blood test) I don't think she is intentionally refraining from sex to hurt you as you have stated. Is she on any kind of medication, because this can be a side effect of some meds. I'm sorry you are going through this. It must be very difficult. You sound like a very good man/spouse. I hope you and your wife get to the root of the issue. Intimacy is such an important part of a relationship.

Best of luck
~VQ

[kendalmintcake]

Hi, thanks for the reply.  Two things stick out here.  Your emphasis on helping her get to the bottom of her issue, and your comment about how men tend to think.

As far as helping her get to understand her issue, I've always thought that's the sensible and sensitive thing to do.  It's what I want to do, but the fact that I can't self sacrifice entirely makes doing that (helping her) very delicate business.  My desires, my sexual needs are over-powering - obviously, she can sense it, actually seems to be able to predict it.  It seems the only way that it is possible is to eliminate my sex drive.

Sometimes I wonder if my reaction, that is, my disappointment is her way of validating that I'm still attracted to her.  Right?  If she withholds and I'm upset, "then he must want it - great, I'm still desirable"

So the other comment about mens reaction - makes me wonder if I want to jump to solution and discuss in detail with no solution...that requires some thinking...I just think in reality, I just want a mini leap of faith that will help me help her.

Thanks so much both of you, I just wonder what she wants from me.  I know she doesn't want to function this way.  There are queues, I just need more confidence and I just need to keep trying and demonstrate support in the right way.

[kendalmintcake]

Hi, thanks for your reply.  We are both nearing middle-age - since this has been going on for many years, doubtfully menopausal related.  It's funny, I share your opinion when I read about women being denied sex from their husbands, I just don't understand how they can be so cruel, you hear these poor women going out of their way to change, augment their bodies, dress up only to find him on sex chats and web cams.  Coming from a male perspective, I know when I read these that the man has checked out - he simply either hates her and hates himself for getting locked into one woman who's not a cover model.

Since a male perspective is my point of reference, naturally, I'm prone to conclude that she has checked out and somehow must hate me for locking her up with a someone who is not Mr. Big from Sex and city.

But that is just emotion speaking there.  I'm sure she knows how this hurts me.  I don't think it is intentional cruelty, she is one of the most thoughtful people I've met ever!, in the grand scheme, this is out of character, ie, to punish her best friend (that's me).  Let me re-iterate, we are very close in every other realm, just not from 10pm to 6am...