Aa
Looking for safety
My question has to do with massage oils or other lubricants when receiving hjob, and specifically hpv . Postings in the forum seems to say hjobs are generally very safe and contain almost no risk re hpv. I know nothing is 00% risk free in life, but to reduce risk as close to 0 as possible, would it make sense that massage oils or other lubs would reduce friction that would other wise lead to infection (in the rare possibility the giver had genital hpv on the hands or fingers)? Would it also make sense that the oil would act as some kind of prophalactic between any infections and the penis? Are any oils or lubes better than others?
Also, how important are properly cleaned hands, as well as immediate showering after hj in reducing hpv-hj risk?
Just trying to make the safest possible choices, thx
Also, how important are properly cleaned hands, as well as immediate showering after hj in reducing hpv-hj risk?
Just trying to make the safest possible choices, thx
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Welcome to our Forum. You are asking good questions for which there are no good studies to inform my answers. As a result the response you get will be based on a combination of logic and personal and published experience.
First the experience piece. Mutual masturbation is widely practiced and for many is source of worry about possible STI. Despite this, there is no evidence that the practice leads to infection, including of HPV. Had this been a major route of transmission there would have been evidence of this occurring that we would have noted through personal experience in our years of STI-focused practice or there would be published reports on the matter. There are none.
Second- transfer of infection by hand is an inefficient process. It is a microbiological process that with each transfer of infectious material the quantity of organisms is "diluted", typically by 100-fold or more. Since part of the risk for infection is related to the numbers of organisms to which a person is exposed, this dilution effect greatly reduces the risk of infection through transfer from person to person on hands.
Third, there are innumerable lubricants and substances used as lubricant. Most of them contain a variety of substances that are toxic to microorganisms- soaps, disinfectants, scents, etc. As a result, there is no evidence that micro-organisms survive in lubricant materials.
Fourth, as you point out, particularly for infections such as HPV, friction and abrasions (even microscopic ones which leave no visible changes to the skin) are important steps in promoting the infection process. Lubricants decrease this and thus reduce rather than increase friction.
I hope these comments and assessments are helpful to you. There is no evidence that lubricant materials, in general represent a risk factor for transmission of STIS. EWH
First the experience piece. Mutual masturbation is widely practiced and for many is source of worry about possible STI. Despite this, there is no evidence that the practice leads to infection, including of HPV. Had this been a major route of transmission there would have been evidence of this occurring that we would have noted through personal experience in our years of STI-focused practice or there would be published reports on the matter. There are none.
Second- transfer of infection by hand is an inefficient process. It is a microbiological process that with each transfer of infectious material the quantity of organisms is "diluted", typically by 100-fold or more. Since part of the risk for infection is related to the numbers of organisms to which a person is exposed, this dilution effect greatly reduces the risk of infection through transfer from person to person on hands.
Third, there are innumerable lubricants and substances used as lubricant. Most of them contain a variety of substances that are toxic to microorganisms- soaps, disinfectants, scents, etc. As a result, there is no evidence that micro-organisms survive in lubricant materials.
Fourth, as you point out, particularly for infections such as HPV, friction and abrasions (even microscopic ones which leave no visible changes to the skin) are important steps in promoting the infection process. Lubricants decrease this and thus reduce rather than increase friction.
I hope these comments and assessments are helpful to you. There is no evidence that lubricant materials, in general represent a risk factor for transmission of STIS. EWH
Thank you Doctor. Your comments help a lot, and yes, I need to move forward. As you might guess, the real culprit here is guilt and regret over some events that I wish never happened.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
You are a bit paranoid. You have received an extensive answer. Our capacity to provide follow-up to lenghty follow-up questions is limited. Thus these replires will be limited:
The events you describe above fall into the category of masturbation and "frottage" (genital rubbing without penetration and are not activities associated with meaningful risk for STIs.
1. No risk for HPV.
2. Why do you think repeating the question will change the answer. Please re-read my orginal response. It works in both directions.
3. No
4. No change in my assessment. Genital HPV does not infect the hands or fingers
I hope these comments will be helpful. You need to move forward not spend time worrying about these effectively non-existant risks. EWH
The events you describe above fall into the category of masturbation and "frottage" (genital rubbing without penetration and are not activities associated with meaningful risk for STIs.
1. No risk for HPV.
2. Why do you think repeating the question will change the answer. Please re-read my orginal response. It works in both directions.
3. No
4. No change in my assessment. Genital HPV does not infect the hands or fingers
I hope these comments will be helpful. You need to move forward not spend time worrying about these effectively non-existant risks. EWH
Doctor, thank you. Just one (I hope) last follow-up post.
My earlier questions will guide my future behavior in terms of the receipt of hjobs, but I have questions about something related which occurred on 2 occasions in the past. In these 2 cases, I massaged a woman’s clitoris with a single finger (no penetration whatsoever in the vagina), and had what might be called “soft strokes” or “brushing glances” along the anus (absolutely no penetration). In each case, I was very careful to quickly and thoroughly wash my hands within minutes afterward, and did not touch my penis prior to the washing.
My questions are these:
1. With regard to any risk of my finger being infected with HPV, would the first comment you made about mutual masturbation (“First, the experience piece”) in my first post still be valid in this direction (male finger touching female anogenitalia versus female hands touching male penis)?
2. Does your second comment (“Second, transfer by infection….”) still hold with regard to infection TO the hand instead of infection FROM the hand?
3. Since no lubricant was used on these 2 occassions, would friction be a significant factor, or would the thickness of my finger skin (I had no visible cuts or abrasions) help deter the possibility of infection? I have seen you mention in another post that the thickness of the skin on the hands is something of a barrier to many infections.
4. I’ve also seen other posts from you that indicate (paraphrasing you…) that genital HPV and those HPVs found on the hands are specific to those areas, but those posts were from 2009-11. Has anything changed in your thinking since that time? I would assume not, from the first point you made in my first post, but just want to check.
As you no doubt see, I am a bit of a paranoid on this HPV subject, and would not have wanted to infect my own penis with HPV, or more importantly, someone else from an infection that might have been on my finger. As noted earlier, I washed thoroughly immediately after these two events. I appreciate your understanding, and hope you can ease my concerns, so I can clear my head for the future. Thank you, Doctor.
My earlier questions will guide my future behavior in terms of the receipt of hjobs, but I have questions about something related which occurred on 2 occasions in the past. In these 2 cases, I massaged a woman’s clitoris with a single finger (no penetration whatsoever in the vagina), and had what might be called “soft strokes” or “brushing glances” along the anus (absolutely no penetration). In each case, I was very careful to quickly and thoroughly wash my hands within minutes afterward, and did not touch my penis prior to the washing.
My questions are these:
1. With regard to any risk of my finger being infected with HPV, would the first comment you made about mutual masturbation (“First, the experience piece”) in my first post still be valid in this direction (male finger touching female anogenitalia versus female hands touching male penis)?
2. Does your second comment (“Second, transfer by infection….”) still hold with regard to infection TO the hand instead of infection FROM the hand?
3. Since no lubricant was used on these 2 occassions, would friction be a significant factor, or would the thickness of my finger skin (I had no visible cuts or abrasions) help deter the possibility of infection? I have seen you mention in another post that the thickness of the skin on the hands is something of a barrier to many infections.
4. I’ve also seen other posts from you that indicate (paraphrasing you…) that genital HPV and those HPVs found on the hands are specific to those areas, but those posts were from 2009-11. Has anything changed in your thinking since that time? I would assume not, from the first point you made in my first post, but just want to check.
As you no doubt see, I am a bit of a paranoid on this HPV subject, and would not have wanted to infect my own penis with HPV, or more importantly, someone else from an infection that might have been on my finger. As noted earlier, I washed thoroughly immediately after these two events. I appreciate your understanding, and hope you can ease my concerns, so I can clear my head for the future. Thank you, Doctor.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Hand washing and showering are always good things to do but are not of proven benefit. This risk is already so very low that it is hard to make them much lower. EWH
Thank you doctor. Your answer was very comprehensive. Just one follow-up. I also asked about hand washing before (by the giver) and showering after (by the receiver). Would these steps reduce risk too?
You are reading content posted in the STDs Forum
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