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tremors during sleep
I'm a 60 year old men, in excellent health, except for experiencing tremors during sleep that wake me up and have difficulty going back to sleep. As I start to fall sleep again, I feel these "rumbleling" (tremors) around my upper body. I immediately wake up again. These tremors last for about 10-15 seconds after I wake up. The first time I experienced this condition was exactly two years ago. It lasted for about four days and it simply went away. Except for minor incidents (by "minor" I mean I experience the tremors for about two nights and go away) with no major disruptions in my sleep patters. Last week, however, I experienced another episode which does not seem to be going away. The first two nights I simply could not go back to sleep at all. My body wanted to go back to sleep, but, as I mentioned above, everytime I fell sleep the tremors woke me up. I'm on my 9th day and there seems to be no sign of letting up. I went to see my doctor on the fourth day--He prescribed Zolpidem, which I have been taken since. Interestingly enough, even under the influence of the sleeping pill, the tremor wake me up, but they are short-lived since I go back to sleep almost immediately. My doctor said to take the medicine for about two weeks and essencially placed me on a "wait-and-see" mode. My concern at this point is "how long can I possobly survived on this medicine. Does any body "out there" know anything about this condition? As you can immagine, it is extremely debilitating. I'm, for my age, a very atheletic man who is the right things, no vices and bikes to work every day--About
twenty miles a day. Married with two grown children. My job is very stress-free and very enjoyable. Any ideas? Thank you very much.
twenty miles a day. Married with two grown children. My job is very stress-free and very enjoyable. Any ideas? Thank you very much.
It's been a while since I checked in but things are basically the same. Minimal to no vibrations on most nights. However what I've been doing has changed. A few months ago I tried a green juice drink that was basically juiced kale and spinach. At the time I was having moderate vibrations. That night I slept peacefully for the most part. Since then I've confirmed that for whatever reason a large amount of leafy greens is very helpful in minimizing or eliminating the vibrations. I'm not sure why this is but if I'm diligent about getting lots of leafy greens things are good. If I start slacking a bit the vibrations will return.
I mentioned the vibrations to a friend of mine a while ago and she said that she had the same thing in the past and that a higher fat diet resolved her issue. She also mentioned bone both. I haven't had much luck with a higher fat diet but I did try bone broth several times. In general it seems to help with the vibrations but it also increases my tinnitus. Maybe a histamine reaction? Because of that I don't think that bone broth is a great solution for me but it may be worth a try for others. Fat and carnitine tie together so in theory I can see a connection there.
One other update - in the past I was almost certain that calcium was causing me problems. It turns out that it's not the calcium but rather the vitamin D that I react badly to. I haven't the foggiest idea why but I react badly to supplemented vitamin D. I tried calcium citrate alone (no D) and that seems to be a good thing although not nearly as effective as the greens.
And the final thing I've been trying - vitamin e. This came about by looking at what's in the greens that may be helping. I've been a bit hit or miss with this however I think it may be beneficial. Hard to say at the moment.
I mentioned the vibrations to a friend of mine a while ago and she said that she had the same thing in the past and that a higher fat diet resolved her issue. She also mentioned bone both. I haven't had much luck with a higher fat diet but I did try bone broth several times. In general it seems to help with the vibrations but it also increases my tinnitus. Maybe a histamine reaction? Because of that I don't think that bone broth is a great solution for me but it may be worth a try for others. Fat and carnitine tie together so in theory I can see a connection there.
One other update - in the past I was almost certain that calcium was causing me problems. It turns out that it's not the calcium but rather the vitamin D that I react badly to. I haven't the foggiest idea why but I react badly to supplemented vitamin D. I tried calcium citrate alone (no D) and that seems to be a good thing although not nearly as effective as the greens.
And the final thing I've been trying - vitamin e. This came about by looking at what's in the greens that may be helping. I've been a bit hit or miss with this however I think it may be beneficial. Hard to say at the moment.
1 Comments
Just shooting in the dark here. Vitamin E is known to have some anti-anxiety properties (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3512361/). Supplementing with vitamin D can reduce magnesium (https://www.vitamindwiki.com/Overview+Magnesium+and+vitamin+D). Increased exercise and also use up magnesium.
Another theory to throw out to the brain trust. The vibrations are an anxiety reaction (to something unknown). At one point, Mike mentioned that the vibrations were worse after he exerted/sweated. Low Zinc has been associated with anxiety/low GABA/excess glutamate. When we sweat, we excrete Zinc. Maybe some Zinc supplementation possibly coupled with vitamin B6 would help here.
1 Comments
I've tried zinc and countless experiments with the various B vitamins in almost all forms. I never had any luck with zinc or B6 - in fact they seemed to make things worse. However it's not easy to determine cause and effect. I was convinced for a long time that calcium was a problem but it turns out it was the D in the calcium supplement that I was reacting to. So I hesitate to say anything with any level of certainly anymore. Time tends to prove me wrong more often than not ;-(
Just to be clear, I wanted to point out that although Tegretol stops (or greatly reduces) the vibrations, it doesn't stop me from waking up periodical feeling "weird." So I think this proves that, in my case, the vibrations are not the causing the spontaneous wakenings, but are probably a symptom (anxiety reaction?) of whatever is
Lots of folks have mild disc degeneration so it's hard to know whether this is really contributing to our issues.
I've been trying to get on a keto diet, but I think I'll take it a lot more seriously now.
FWIW, I read back over some of this thread and tried l-carnitine. It gave me palpitations just like Mike reported so I had to stop it. I don't know why some people have that reaction. Also not sure whether it did anything for the vibrations. The reason I started the l-carnitine was not for the vibrations, but for the neuropathy I seem to have developed in my arms which also mostly happens during sleep. Alpha lipoic acid and acetyl-l-carnitine are supposedly helpful in dealing with peripheral neuropathies. After doing some additional reading, I learned that these might actually be due to carpal tunnel syndrome. I had been waking up with numb, tingly hands for a while now, but didn't think much of it. I figured I just had my hands in a bad position. But then I realized that I also had some mild pain in the underside of my wrists. Of course, I'm a programmer so I type for a living and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if I've developed carpal tunnel. The fun never ends...
I've been trying to get on a keto diet, but I think I'll take it a lot more seriously now.
FWIW, I read back over some of this thread and tried l-carnitine. It gave me palpitations just like Mike reported so I had to stop it. I don't know why some people have that reaction. Also not sure whether it did anything for the vibrations. The reason I started the l-carnitine was not for the vibrations, but for the neuropathy I seem to have developed in my arms which also mostly happens during sleep. Alpha lipoic acid and acetyl-l-carnitine are supposedly helpful in dealing with peripheral neuropathies. After doing some additional reading, I learned that these might actually be due to carpal tunnel syndrome. I had been waking up with numb, tingly hands for a while now, but didn't think much of it. I figured I just had my hands in a bad position. But then I realized that I also had some mild pain in the underside of my wrists. Of course, I'm a programmer so I type for a living and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if I've developed carpal tunnel. The fun never ends...
Tried posting this before, but it didn't take...
Some of you might be interested in this woman's Web site in which she recounts her son's struggle with palatal myoclonus (among many other things). Some of us have a clicking sound in the ears which is a symptoms of palatal myoclonus. She also mentions in her e-book that her son also suffered from diaphragmatic myoclonus. I've been wondering with the sleep vibrations are actually a form of this. Some of us (including me) have reported that the vibrations seem to emanate from the diaphragm area. Although from what I've read, most of (the very few) documented cases don't persist into sleep.
Anyway, this is her Web site if you're interested: http://www.sherrijonas.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
Some of you might be interested in this woman's Web site in which she recounts her son's struggle with palatal myoclonus (among many other things). Some of us have a clicking sound in the ears which is a symptoms of palatal myoclonus. She also mentions in her e-book that her son also suffered from diaphragmatic myoclonus. I've been wondering with the sleep vibrations are actually a form of this. Some of us (including me) have reported that the vibrations seem to emanate from the diaphragm area. Although from what I've read, most of (the very few) documented cases don't persist into sleep.
Anyway, this is her Web site if you're interested: http://www.sherrijonas.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
5 Comments
Hey friends. I have quit all meds and supplements for a long time now. At first it seemed like tremors got worse, then it felt as if they were on a normal cycle that had confused me for the last couple of years. They would get better and worse as if they were reacting to something that was changed in diet or sleep patterns. That never changed for some time. Now I have been carb free for the last couple months. I have almost lost 30 pounds and the tremors have been gone for almost three weeks strait. I cannot remember the last time it has gone on that long. I am doing carb free to lose weight but seem to be getting better the same. This may point to b's continual search for gut issues.
I have been eating nothing but lean meats and vegitable carbs. Also have been keeping well hydrated as to not get the gout issue stirred up.
Hope everyone else is well.. I will report back later with more results.
I have been eating nothing but lean meats and vegitable carbs. Also have been keeping well hydrated as to not get the gout issue stirred up.
Hope everyone else is well.. I will report back later with more results.
Interesting. Have you cut out sugar as well? If so, I wonder if you're in ketosis. Ketogenic diets are often used to address neuro issues. In any case, congratulations and keep it up!
Yes, interesting, and thanks!
Gluten could be a cause here (I'm assuming that was cut out).
I'd be very interested in seeing if I could replicate the experiment, so would also appreciate any further details about the diet (whether it's ketogenic, etc.)
By way of update, an MRI revealed that I have perineural cysts somewhere on my spine. These are often not symptomatic, but in a few more months I'll have a follow-up to see whether they've enlarged. Where they are most commonly located, they can compress nerves leading to digestive dysfunction, etc., so in my mind it counts among my several hypotheses.
Gluten could be a cause here (I'm assuming that was cut out).
I'd be very interested in seeing if I could replicate the experiment, so would also appreciate any further details about the diet (whether it's ketogenic, etc.)
By way of update, an MRI revealed that I have perineural cysts somewhere on my spine. These are often not symptomatic, but in a few more months I'll have a follow-up to see whether they've enlarged. Where they are most commonly located, they can compress nerves leading to digestive dysfunction, etc., so in my mind it counts among my several hypotheses.
Yes. And on a cervical MRI I have some mild disc degeneration in a couple of places which, according to the report, were "unremarkable." So who knows...?
I started off at first just cutting out all sugars, starches and breads. Then after a while I decided to go on a ketogenic diet. I have tried the gluten-free diet in the past with no success.
Funny I also have a perineural cyst found on an MRI in my brainstem. They said it would be no symptoms and that it is fairly common to find one.
I also have some mild disc degeneration in a couple places in my neck. Suspecting this in the past, a doctor tried a shot of Cortizone to see if it makes any difference again with no success.
Funny I also have a perineural cyst found on an MRI in my brainstem. They said it would be no symptoms and that it is fairly common to find one.
I also have some mild disc degeneration in a couple places in my neck. Suspecting this in the past, a doctor tried a shot of Cortizone to see if it makes any difference again with no success.
Just checking in. Not much change with me. I'm going to be scheduling an appointment with the gastro practice at Mass General in Boston to see if there's anything to my reflux theory of what's going on with me.
CBD oil doesn't seem to be doing anything for me.
Ricepeg, I'm wondering if you've started with the beta-blockers and how that's working out for you.
CBD oil doesn't seem to be doing anything for me.
Ricepeg, I'm wondering if you've started with the beta-blockers and how that's working out for you.
4 Comments
Not yet, as the doc wanted to first check my breathing in case of an allergic reaction to beta blockers. Slow system here. Expensive process. I've been taking various supplements that may have helped, except that I can't be sure, so have to start over. At least I still have things to try while I wait.
Ok. I imagine you haven't started CPAP yet either? And which supplements do you think helped? Your experience should give some of us Americans pause as the debate over single-payer healthcare becomes louder...
We have the choice between private and public healthcare. In theory, private is faster and more expensive, and though I can't afford it I chose that route out of a sense of urgency. I think that may have been a mistake, and I'm now contemplating how to move back through the public system, which is relatively cheap and in many instances free. The private system specialists are not necessarily any better than the public, and often the same people work in both systems. Pros and cons to both.
Off and on at the moment I'm trying ashwagandha (for one thing, a natural beta blocker), glycine, taurine, theanine, mthfr, B2, 6 and 12, magnesium, astaxanthin in case of brain inflammation (people with OCD have 30% higher, so I figure it can't hurt to consider that for a tremor that seems like an anxiety response), echinacea for nasal passage in relation to apnea (it may have helped but 10,000mg led to nausea), and zinc. Plus more standard stuff like C, D, E and Omega3.
No CPAP yet. I am speculating that I have hypopnea more than apnea (pick up my actual sleep report soon), and that this has continued in daytime. I noticed my shallow breathing for the past year or so.
My general theory at the moment is that general stress, anxiety, poor diet and lifestyle eventually caught up with me, and that in conjunction with apnea the release of adrenaline, etc. malfunctions, leaving me with a PTSD-like tremor that waxes and wanes with general health and sleep quality, stress levels, emotional/psychological states, etc.
Off and on at the moment I'm trying ashwagandha (for one thing, a natural beta blocker), glycine, taurine, theanine, mthfr, B2, 6 and 12, magnesium, astaxanthin in case of brain inflammation (people with OCD have 30% higher, so I figure it can't hurt to consider that for a tremor that seems like an anxiety response), echinacea for nasal passage in relation to apnea (it may have helped but 10,000mg led to nausea), and zinc. Plus more standard stuff like C, D, E and Omega3.
No CPAP yet. I am speculating that I have hypopnea more than apnea (pick up my actual sleep report soon), and that this has continued in daytime. I noticed my shallow breathing for the past year or so.
My general theory at the moment is that general stress, anxiety, poor diet and lifestyle eventually caught up with me, and that in conjunction with apnea the release of adrenaline, etc. malfunctions, leaving me with a PTSD-like tremor that waxes and wanes with general health and sleep quality, stress levels, emotional/psychological states, etc.
Thanks for the info. I still have a theory that much of this (aside from sleep apnea) is related to vagus nerve issues. Here's an experiment you might want to try. If you're a shower person, try taking as cold a shower as you can for as long as you can at the end of your shower. This supposedly has positive effects on the vagus nerve in addition to being a cheap form of "cold thermogenesis" which is also supposed to have positive effects on overall health. I've been doing this for the last few days and I definitely feel better and less anxious after doing it. It hasn't affected my sleep vibrations all that much (yet) and I don't know what effects it's having on my overall health, but some alternative health practitioners swear by this. Some people actually take ice baths. I'm not that brave...
This has led to the latest health fad (at least in the U.S.) which is "cryo-saunas" which I was also thinking of trying.
This has led to the latest health fad (at least in the U.S.) which is "cryo-saunas" which I was also thinking of trying.
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