Why don't the thoughts go away?

I have been having suicidal thoughts for six months and have had made two attempts in the past five months, the first time my therapist rang the police and they found me, the 2nd time a family member found me the 2nd time i was hospitalized. I still have the thoughts, i hate being like this, does anyone feel like this and does it ever go away. I do suffer from depression and post traumatic stress and i am receiving therapy for this but i still have the thoughts, does it ever go away?

[Jaquta]

They do go away or at least you can experience periods without them.
I have been diagnosed with bpd and have had chronic suicidal thoughts for nearly 10 years.  I have had periods where I have been reasonably stable though and in good therapy and haven't had any suicidal thoughts.

Be open and honest with your therapist and doctor about what is going on.
What I learned that really helped me was that the thoughts were masking intense negative emotions.  Knowing that really helps because it means I can look at ways to problem solve what is causing me the distress.

Once you address the underlying issues the thoughts should go away.

[shaz853]

Thanks, i think i know what you mean, when i am really stressed out i get the thoughts more often and then i am looking for an escape route, I try to be open to my therapist but i find it hard i do tell him i get these thoughts and he trys to get me to think of my family and how they would feel if i wasn't here. and he tries to get me to think of other escape routes that are safer. Its good to know that they do go away sometimes. I get times when i am relatively calm for a while then i feel it building again and i know that it will build and build and i will try it again, i get frustrated trying to tell people and i feel like they are not listening to me, they don't help they just talk about keeping safe, i know perhaps there isn't alot they can do except listen but i get frustrated.. Thanks

[Jaquta]

To be honest, I don't think many people whom I have discussed suicidal thoughts, etc with actually get it.  Most will either over-react or under-react.
It's a bit strange really because when I was feeling OK and not suicidal I was in hospital being threatened with ect.  When I perceive my situation to be extremely dangerous no one is prepared to offer any support.  During a crisis I was even told that there was nothing they could do to help.  Not what you really want to hear.

You may find having your negative emotions validated helps.  Being validated can make me feel heard and connected in some small way and like I don't have to deal with everything myself.

I think looking at protective factors is OK but I think it is better to work on ways to reduce the thoughts and definitely their intensity.

Try talking about your feelings then and let others know how they are affecting you.

I have been dealing with a lot for ages and I just had enough and told my GP I was planning on setting a date to kill myself.  It's so frustrating that everything has to go to the extreme before people will actually listen.  I think he finally did hear then but promptly went on leave for a number of weeks without leaving any contingency plan.  Are people really that stupid?  I just don't get how people don't understand or get it.  It's seems rather basic or commonsensical.

Keep talking to those who can help and can make a difference.
I think people are more interested in feelings versus suicidal feelings so maybe look beyond the safety stuff and look at what is driving those thoughts.  People seem to be better able to work with feelings of desperation, or of being overwhelmed or trapped, etc.

Be honest with how you feel but also know that suicidal feelings can be a blanket emotion for so much more.

I appreciate it's hard but keep working.  Once you know what's driving the thoughts you can take back some control.

[shaz853]

Hi, i totally agree, the first time i attempted suicide i rang my therapist before it and told him he was very dismissive and asked me to come and see him the next day and stuff i was so angry i was at my lowest point but no-one seemed to listen so i thought enough is enough so i rang him back and left a message and i drove away before he could call me back he sent the police after me they found me. The second time i told no-one but my partner rang the police when i had been away over an hour because he knew how i was feeling anyway my cousin found me this time, and this time my therapist advised me to go to hospital for a while i went for two days and i hated it so i lied my way out of there telling them i was ok, it would be so easy for me to kill myself i tell them when i feel really bad and there like just think of your family. This weekend i am going to a place for a break it is a place for people with mental health issuses but the thing is its in another town from where i live and i can leave when i want so if i wanted i could plan to do something then, don't they see this, i know they want me to think they trust me but i don't trust me.
My therapist is good but i think he is frustrated with me as i won't take medication and i am relunctant to talk about what bothers me i have so many issues as well i was assautled last year and the police have been a nightmare about the whole thing putting the blame on me i feel so let down by them all no wonder i want to kill myself. Its like no one cares my therapist says he cares and my family care so why don't they listen . Thanks for your input.

[Jaquta]

I guess people just don't get how our minds work.  But then I think we also play a part in that we don't communicate or communicate our intentions very clearly.
I think that you should discuss what is going on in your mind with someone.  Sometimes it's easier for me to say that someone told me to tell you ...  It's not that skillful but it gets the information out there.  And I don't have to own it.
Tell them that you don't trust yourself and you feel you could plan, etc if you feel bad.

I definitely get where you're coming from.  What triggered what was perhaps my worst episode ever was people not listening and understanding and perhaps even people minimizing what I was experiencing.  I was so angry I went from being severely suicidal to severely homicidal.  I had to deal with this and work through this all on my own.  It was hard and it hurt a lot to know that nobody cared or cared enough to help me.  People with mental health issues are often pitied and sympathized with but I didn't get anything.  I was just made to feel like a freak and to feel even more helpless and hopeless.  It felt extremely rejecting.

I refused to take meds and I found talking about my thoughts and feelings difficult.

What you say almost seems to fit for complex-ptsd and bpd.

Have you looked at perhaps doing an on-line dbt course?  It could be useful.  To build and reinforce skills if nothing else.

[shaz853]

I get what you mean about the not communicating very well i have trouble telling them how i feel and when i think i have said enough i feel like they are not taking me seriously. You sound a bit like me i won't take medication either and i struggle to talk about issuses in my life. I was talking to a professional today who my therapist got involved after my first attempt, i was also assessed by a pyscharist who said i was suffering from major depressive disorder and post traumatic stress, but also for 16 years i have had anxiety and panic attacks and argraphobia. He prescribed medication but i refused i even refused it in hospital. They are planning for me to go away for a few days to get a break not a hospital but it is staffed by nurses but i would be free to leave when i wanted. I rang my therapist to tell him i was anxious about going it is so open there if i wanted i can leave when i want i told him that and asked me how would i keep myself safe but how am i supposed to know. It is hard to get help for this its two months since i was in hospital and i have struggled, i wonder is it because on the outside i look ok, i dress well and behave well but on the inside i am falling apart. This was mentioned to me once that i came across as ok and they are supposed to be experts. I will look into what you have said about an on line course and its really good to know i am not alone in how i feel about this I think it is terrible that you had to do it all on your own, do you have a therapist, you seem to have done really well. Thankyou for your help.

[Jaquta]

I refused meds and refused meds in hospital.  There didn't seem much point though as I was restrained and given intra-muscular meds until I would comply.
From my position now I think taking something short-term can be useful.  In your situation I would probably look at taking something for anxiety.  I think once the anxiety is better managed you will be better able to assess your options.  Sometimes everything just spirals out of control too because of fatigue.  Anxiety, depression, etc can be exhausting.  Really exhausting.

The place you are going too would probably be the equivalent of our crisis respite care.
I used that option once but became even more unwell.  I was triggered by seeing people passively taking medications and behaving almost zombie like.  I couldn't deal with the rubbish food they were dishing up either.  There were long-term residents there and I was appalled by the lack of good nutrition.
I'm not a very social person and I didn't really respond too well to staff saying I had to interact with people talking to their apples and tv's.
Respite can be good depending on how it is structured and how you utilize it.

Sometimes it seems as though people, therapists, etc, don't really think.  Not all suicidal people want too or can keep themselves safe.  One has to feel in control (to a degree) to be able to access or initiate interventions.

It's an effort because emotionally you're not well contained.
Many people often appear more competent than they actually are and that can be a problem.  Also some people seem quite insightful regarding some things and that can also work against them.
A staff member at the out-patient clinic I was going to for therapy told my therapist that I was well because I said hello to him.  Does that even follow?  I'm not typically a rude person and will acknowledge someone and hold a door open for them.  That doesn't mean I am well though.

It's hard for a lot of people to have to deal with the consequences of mental illness and seemingly ill qualified and experienced staff.
I don't currently have a T.  My last one left nearly two years ago.  I am still waiting for a new one (who can treat me).  I have been approved for an independent psych assessment some time.  Hopefully the waiting list won't be too long.

I have learned a lot about myself through adversity and also by talking to experts on these forums.  The doctor on the mental health expert forum is really good if you ever need advice.

No problem.  Take care and if you do go away make sure you take advantage of what is being offered. Talk to the staff about thoughts, feelings and issues if need be.  A break is sometimes better than anything.  Relax and enjoy it.

[shaz853]

It is actually very comforting to read what you have written because you sound like you really know what i am thinking and feeling. It is a respite place i went too and it is also a residental place there about 8 people who live there full time they are much worse than me and i didn't feel like i should have been there, i know i was going to be in a seperate apartment but i had to share and the other woman was not like me, i went on Friday and stayed 5 minutes i panicked and made my partner take me home, its a 40 minute drive from where i live and i am argraphobic so that scared me it just didn't suit me, i felt bad for wasting their time but i really couldn't have stayed i would have left in the middle of the night. The doors were alarmed but still opened and they came to check on you every two hours i could have got far in two hours.
I felt really suicidal yesterday so i rang my local mental health team like my therapist told me too she told me to take a bath to relax and put my pyjamas on and stay at home, they really don't understand but the distraction of talking to someone helped a bit. I actually preferred the hospital to that respite place i felt safer in hospital.
I don't find it easy to talk to people so i probably wouldn't have talked to the staff although they were nice.
I feel like i don't need medication that i will get better on my own but part of me is scared that maybe i am in denial of it and that i am sicker than i know or accept but then if i can think like that i must be ok right? I get so confused and hardly ever say what i need too i am afraid i want the feelings away but i don't want locked up but then i think what if i act on how i feel some day. I am exhausted, totally i just want to stay i bed but i have a family and i carry on for them but i think they are beginning to notice that i am not the same. I know something has to give somewhere and sometimes i wish i would take the medication but i know i won't.
You sound like you know yourself really well which is great and reading what you have written i can see that you understand alot better than any therapist i have ever met, i guess its because you have experienced it though. Thanks again

[Jaquta]

OK but not OK.  When I start thinking like that I am actually pretty unwell.  I probably get a little paranoid too because I know I'm not well and not functioning but then I feel like I'm not sick enough to warrant interventions, etc.  Or are really sick and don't want help but feel really hyped up/ agitated and out of control and know I need it.
I have hurt myself at times, I think, to get the support I need but can't ask for.  Not too many people deny or reject a comatosed patient.  The conditions some people put on support seem misplaced.  Or maybe they are just my perceptions?

I don't know if anything I can say about meds will help.  I personally are very anti-meds but because I have experienced such low moments, out of desperation I have trialled some.  I take some medication occasionally for anxiety or to help me sleep.  After months of 2 hrs sleep a night I feel pretty wasted (and desperate).

I sometimes wonder if me taking meds would have made a difference to the journey my recovery has since taken.

Are you able to ask for more intensive psychotherapy?  At one point my therapist offered me three sessions per week.  Those sessions are what have gotten me to where I am now.  Before I started with her I was severely depressed and had given up.  I don't expect it would have been too long before I did kill myself.  My T was good but therapy was still hard.

If you are able too I would ask if you could access psychoanalytical psychotherapy.  That is the type of therapy that I found made the greatest difference.

When I was unwell I had this saying that a prerequisite for becoming a mental health professional was stupidity.  To me a lot of the stuff just seems like basic common sense.
I have learned a lot about myself through adversity.  Most of that has been through the local mhs.  I often wonder why they have a service because they are so useless.  But then that gets confusing because it says a lot about me and my need as well.

There is a saying in mental health that you either become better or bitter.
If you have a good treatment team and learn to be accepting your quality of life can be dramatically improved.

If you are near Grimsby my ex-T is working at the new inpatient unit there.  She is brilliant.

If you feel things are really bad again you could always admit yourself to hospital.  In hindsight I think me talking to someone up at the hospital could have made a huge difference to my level of care.

[shaz853]

Hi, my therapist has been really good, i see him sometimes twice a week from i started feeling suicidal it helps a bit i guess to have him there, he also got me a social worker as extra support. He wants to start therapy where i will see him everyday for a few hours a day for a week to see if it will help, i feel like i am a hopeless cause nothing works although i suppose i still haven't taken them. I had a really bad day i wanted to kill myself i ended up being so angry i threw all my stuff around my room, my partner then got angry and we rowed he doesn't understand i am so confused and i hate this, i got sicssors to cut my wrists but my partner got them and he went mad, but i don't care he keeps saying what about him but what about me i don't want to feel like this and i feel like i am loosing control a bit more everyday. I will talk to my social worker tomorrow to see what can be done, they need to listen i really can't take much more of this, i am so tired. I will think about the hospital some more although it scared me before but if it helped i would try anything.

[Jaquta]

Your T sounds as though he might have some ideas.  Offering you that much support shows he realizes you need containment.  I don't know if the way he is approaching it is necessarily the best way though.  What happens after that initial week?  It has the potential to create more problems.  My T would have said that 50 minute sessions were enough.  I don't know if anything is to be gained by the longer sessions.  Maybe three sessions for a month or two (or three) would be more effective?
If you need to see him everyday for long periods then I think you probably need to be in hospital.

What aren't you feeling or saying?  What is causing you to behave or react in this way?  Can you put a thought or feeling to it or is it just a bunch of tension?
When you behave this way it means that you have a need that isn't being met?  What is that need?  The need to be heard, understood, have someone take responsibility, etc.  What is it?  What do you most want?  I know you need this to stop.  Maybe telling your T that would be enough.  In my experience this crappy mood/ tension stuff continues until something happens to reduce it.  Hurting yourself isn't an option so don't even bother going there.
Would having someone ask why you are so angry help?

What would have helped me in a similar state?  Basic things like good sleep, nutrition, exercise, etc.  You know, an anti-anxiety med would help dissipate this tension/ uneasy feeling quite quickly.  I don't know why I never took meds when I was feeling that awful.

I think both you and your partner need to talk to your T or doctor.  What's happening is dangerous.  I know, I've been there.
Talk to your partner and tell him you can't cope, etc.  You need to deal with this.  There are both constructive and destructive ways to go about this.  I would urge you to do what is most healthy or skillful.  Even if you don't want to do it or feel like doing it.  You will feel much better once you get appropriate support.

[shaz853]

I met with my social worker today and told her what happened i also told her that sometimes i felt like no-one was listening so she asked what was it that i really needed to say, i told her that i feel so desperate to escape this and at times i will do anything to get away she asked did i want to go to hospital today but i said no its ok today she said if i ever feel like that again or if i don't feel safe from myself i need to contact them and tell them that i need to go to hospital she said that way the control stays with me.
I don't know what has caused all this i have always had anxiety and panic for years them i can deal with but i was diganosed with major depressive disorder and ptsd in December and it has all been downhill since then. They upped my support because in November i went away with the intention  of killing myself the police brought me back and in January i went missing for 10 hours i had the medication to do it just not the guts then i ended up in hospital. My therapist is wanting to start therapy for trauma from my past but i'm not in a stable place he wants me to stay in one of the respite places so he knows i am safer when he does the therapy i'm not sure i can cope with it even there, i can walk out of there but i am sure they will be aware of that.
I can't put a thought to the feeling, maybe anger, frustration, sadness, hopeless and iuseless i feel them all, I thought after being in hospital that i wouldn't feel like this anymore i didn't have the guts to do it so why do i still want to do it? My personaility has totally changed in the past few months i forget everything and lose concentration in everything, my mind has to be doing something all the time, i can't relax, i am driving my partner mad because i won't tell him anything but i don't want to burden him. I will consider admitting myself the next time i get like that, if i can when i feel that way i am so angry i don't want help i want it to go away. Thankyou for your advice it really helps, i know i need to do something and soon.

[Jaquta]

Because you're still hurting and wanting to escape the emotional pain.
Maybe, and I'm not sure about this, but maybe subconsciously you're creating a crisis so as to avoid doing the trauma work you need too.  Maybe that's not quite right.  I suspect the emotions are just extremely overwhelming and they are creating chaos and feelings of disorganization -causing you to feel out of control.

It's good that you had that discussion with your social worker.  If nothing else your distress would have been noted.
You did what I tend to do and that is run when help is on offer.  I think you'll probably agree that while initially it felt good disclosing parts of how you really felt that unbearable tension is still there and is probably increasing again.
I think the name for that sort of thing is abandonment/ engulfment.  You get anxious if people get too close but also anxious if left alone.

Regarding hospital, etc sometimes people need to give up control to regain control.

Is it the diagnoses that have triggered you, do you think?  I was diagnosed with a complicated adjustment disorder after being diagnosed with bpd because I was just so absolutely devastated.  I was distraught and I guess it took away my security and made me confront a different perception of the world.  I don't like change all that much and it was probably quite destabilizing for me plus I felt worthless, etc for having this condition.  I felt broken, helpless and hopeless.

I think a person should be stable or 'contained' before they begin trauma work.  Although my T use to just work with what I took to sessions with me.  It took a long time before I was able to develop that sense of trust with her that I needed in order to be able to address deeper, more sensitive issues.
It hurts to talk about stuff to start with but then it gets easier.  As you start to unburden yourself you start to learn about yourself and others and you feel better.

Maybe all of those emotions.  Anger at what happened.  Frustration with where you are now.  A sense of loss or grief over losses or missed opportunities.  Grieving for what has happened and what you have missed is important.

You seem to be describing symptoms of severe anxiety.  Depression doesn't help much either.  (Did I say that short-term use of anti-anxiety meds helps?)
I'm sure your partner would feel better and less hopeless, helpless and powerless if you were to talk to him.  Maybe talking to him can help you too.  You could ask your partner to support you.  Maybe a crisis plan could be useful.

I think the anger can be dangerous and I think that that is something that can be worked on in therapy.

If you were interested you may like to look at dbt skills.  You should be able to access them on-line.  Or try an on-line dbt class.  They have skills that can help you deal with intense emotions and learn ways of managing distress.

[shaz853]

Its all very confusing but you make alot of sense, i don't think that consciously i create crisis to avoid the trauma work but maybe it scares me so much that i sub-consciously do it and you were right although i felt slightly better at the time yesterday its all here today again it builds up back again so quickly.
I don't like being diganosed with depression i don't want it and i don't know how to get rid of it i still don't want medication, i am frustrated that i feel like this now, i have tried talking to my partner and sometimes he is ok and other times he gets angry which makes it worse. The part regarding hospital thats what my social worker said yesterday that maybe i need to give them the control and be totally vunerable and allow people to help instead of fighting it and allow myself to hit the bottom and then start coming back up again.
My partner won't contact my therapist in a crisis because he is afraid that they will take me to hospital and doesn't like me being there although he did talk to my social worker this morning and he told her how bad it was.
I think i am constantly looking for a way out of this, i hope i have the strength to see it through.Can i ask do you feel better now? You seem to know alot about it and you are a great help to me so thankyou, it is an amazing feeling to listen to what you are saying knowing that someone understands how i feel. I do have really bad anxiety and i still refuse medication for that as well, i want to do this without medication. Today is not a good day either but i am trying to keep control but it takes very little to start me off. Is there any chance this will get better? A few weeks ago i got the feeling that my therapist was getting frustrated as well, could he be or was that just me thinking he was i got scared that he was going to give up on me, he told me i had to take more control of my life and make decisions which scared me more i was going to give up therapy then but i guess he was trying to help me take more control. I feel like this is all wrong i shouldn't feel like this and i am stuck like this, i am lucky in a way i have a lot of support and i should be glad but i just don't feel like that now. I will look online about the dbt courses thanks.

[Jaquta]

I didn't like being diagnosed with depression either.  In hindsight I think that just showed that I had much deeper psychological issues going on.  Most people probably don't care all that much.  They are able to accept the diagnosis and treatment and move on.
It is likely that the depression wont go away until you resolve some of your underlying issues.  My situation has been difficult for me to change and I still have periods of severe depression interspersed with periods of chronic low mood.
I think for the label, and symptoms, to go away you need to change your approach.
The illness will be affecting him too.  It is difficult for most people to understand when they have never been through it themselves.  Your partner could be angry because he feels vulnerable about not being able to help.  It sounds as though he has done a lot to help already though.

Starting from the beginning again is really exhausting but having said that I'm not sure stopping half way helps relieve the tension either.  Perhaps with good intervention it would be different.  My personal experience is that support never helped.  I think my T kind of made accessing any good help difficult though.  She had issues of her own.  I'm sure your support network would be different -better.

And your partner not being proactive doesn't help, does it?  Only causes more stress for you.  One thing I have learnt and that is that we need to take responsibility for ourselves.  We should ask for help if we need it but we should never expect others to do it for us.  Same as we shouldn't jeopardize our health by taking excess meds, etc because one day nobody will intervene.  We may only want help but due to circumstances may end up really damaging ourselves or dying.
It is our job to keep ourselves safe, nobody elses.

Me too, I think.  I look for ways to absolve myself of responsibility.  It's not the answer though and it is what keeps us stuck.  Nobody is going to rescue us, we have to help ourselves.
In psychology I think the term is called active-passivity.  We actively seek out others to solve our problems.  In my experience it rarely, if ever, works.

I can only really answer on a moment to moment basis.  This morning I feel OK.  Last night I was feeling a little down.  The ongoing lack of support is getting to me plus my uncle called last weekend which triggered me.  My cousin killed himself just before Christmas last year.  It hit just a little too close to home I think with method and how I was feeling.  I was reflecting on it again a bit.
I feel more skillful now.  That has got to be a good thing.  
My issues go back to early childhood so that means I have a lot of emotional developmental issues to address.  I was different.  I didn't have friends, etc.  Relationships are difficult for me.  I was incredibly insecure and self-conscious.
I think I am a stronger person now.  I think I see and understand more of the world now (although I think lack of insight may not have been such a bad thing either at least there wasn't this degree of emotional pain).
It's hard to say whether things are better or worse because the criteria are always changing.  I think life is worth preserving with though.  I think you have the potential to have a good quality life.  If you can view life as being any different then there is something there to work towards.  I try and believe that I can achieve that (the happy ever after) but I do try and keep it realistic, I can't expect life to be all roses.

Maybe you are stronger than me.  I think I fell into that deep, dark hole one too many times.  For me it felt as though others were trying to fill it in as fast as I could try and climb out.  I can't even remember when and why I started taking short courses of lorazepam.  I'm sure it came on the top of some crisis.  Probably for me too I felt stuck.  I wasn't able to go forward but neither was I able to go back.  I was dysfunctional and so wasn't able to make significant changes and I wasn't able to hurt myself.  I did that one time too many and it scared me (enough to make me not do it again).  I was also afraid that if I slipped up too badly that I would be sectioned again and given ect.  I was threatened with it during a previous admission.  That's pretty scary and confusing too.

I find exercise good for anxiety.  Also trying to do stuff that you enjoy seems to help.  Participating seems to create less space for thinking.  Thinking can be the problem.

Things sometimes get a little better on their own.  I think when we become distracted and ruminate less that things do improve.
For the most part though I would say that improvement only comes about through therapy.

You should trust your own feelings.  T's can and do get frustrated.  Try running it past him.  It's OK to clarify things.  You may even be surprised by his response.  Sometimes they are the most real conversations you will have in therapy.  

Once he accepts you for who you are and where you are at you will feel more comfortable with taking on more responsibility.  It is probably too much for you at this point.  Tell him how you feel.  Deep down he only wants what's best for you.  Tell him how pressured or frightened you feel by needing to take that responsibility.  These conversations will ultimately help you and will give him material to work with.

Keep plugging away at it and you will eventually notice changes.  You have probably learnt and changed a lot already.

There is that saying about making lemonade out of lemons.  Use opportunities for personal growth and development.  There is something to be learned everywhere.

Good luck!!  I hope you have an OK day.

[shaz853]

I know that only me can really help me but i feel weird asking for help i seem to think that if i ask to be admitted to hospital then i don't really need to be admitted does that make sense? I hate asking for help but i don't know what to do myself i have had therapy for years for panic attacks and argraphobia and they never went away they did get easier but never left my therapist said i need to accept that i am an anxious person and live with it instead of fighting it, that i could deal with, depression and ptsd i can't deal with i can't accept it think i am in denial to how bad i am i think i will wake up one day and feel better, i have been out of hospital for two months and i feel worse than ever. I do try distraction and that helps for a while but as soon as i have time to think it all comes back again. I don't know if all the support i get helps or not but i'm glad its there whether i use it or noti know they are there. Sometimes i wish someone would make my decisions for me but i know they can't. I am scared i will eventually lose all control if i continue like this my therapist assures me i won't but he's not in my head, if he was i would have been locked up long ago. I wonder is it possible to develop more serious mental health disorders if you have had ones to start with.
I also have had problems from childhood my parents were very reserved and not much love was given i got pregnant at 16 and was made to feel so bad for it as if i had committed the worst crime ever. I have no friends only my partner my mother and father aren't really speaking to me because of my second suicide attempt they are ashamed of me, for years i had to try and hide my panic from them and the fact that i have a therapist in their eyes strong people don't have therapists, so now they know who i am and they can't accept it. I guess alot of my problems come from childhood and bad relationships as an adult i prefer to not have friends as then i can't be let down, i am very paranoid of people i think they don't like me and i never tell anyone that i have anxiety or argraphobia that is why it is such a relief to hear you, you sound alot like me.
I think that is why my therapist has stuck by me for so long he knows i don't have many people, i can make friends as long as i don't have to trust them which is not much use is it.
Therapy has obviously taught you alot which is good.
My partner is good to a certain extent but then no-one is perfect, if i even had a hope that i could make my life better it would help.
I feel a bit better in the knowledge that hospital is there if i really need it and keep it in my control the last time they talked me into going voluntary which i am glad i done because i think they were planning on admitting me either way as they kept saying we would really like you to go on a voluntary basis so that was enough. I didn't like being kept somewhere i couldn't leave i didn't feel i should have been there and i knew exactly what to say to get out again so that puts me of going, there are other places available but not for suicidal people as the supervision isn't constant.
I feel like i am going around in circles and going no where.
I am sorry about your cousin it must be hard to deal with that, but you seem to be doing really well or perhaps you like me appear to be.
My day was ok and i see my social worker tomorrow again, if i could only stay in an ok mood for a while then maybe i would have hope but anyway thats life. Thanks again, i hope all is well with you.

[Jaquta]

I think so.  I sometimes have trouble relating and understanding when not in that particular emotional state.
I think asking for help would signify that I was in control.  When things are really bad for me I have a hard time asking for help.  I either feel too sick (and don't want help) or not sick enough.

I use to really hate asking for help too.  I would walk 30 km before asking someone driving in the same direction for a lift.  I think now I am better able to ask for help and also feel much more deserving of it.

I don't think you live with it or fight it.  I think you address it.  Once you address the underlying issues the anxiety reduces and resolves.

You could wake up one day and feel better but I think it would be unlikely.

Depression can affect insight.  When people are depressed they perhaps don't think as clearly.  Perceptions are very different to when a person is well.

The time after hospital admissions are generally when you are at greater risk therefore it probably makes sense that you would feel worse during this time.
I think it was about six weeks after I was discharged that I took all my discharge meds.

Knowing that support is available if you need it or choose to use it does help.  It is probably much better than feeling alone.

I'm sure that's the case with me too.  If only people did know what we were thinking.  Probably just as well they can't.
I think it is possible to lose control but it is probably unlikely.  

I don't know.  Depression and anxiety can get worse.  You may have psychotic breaks but I don't think you suddenly develop bipolar or schizophrenia.

The funny thing is it just shows how weak and defensive they, your parents, are.
Mine were/ are the same (they're a little better now) but they see my illness as a personal attack.  Instead of validating me and my experiences they deny my reality.  My parents have issues with status, parenting and I guess perception.
My parents would say talk to us if you feel suicidal but don't talk to us about mental health issues.  Hello?  I found it rejecting having them deny me talking about myself or an aspect of myself which had become quite important.  The safety stuff was more a demand so as they could feel in control.  I think my family are slightly more accepting of it now because they have seen how much I struggle but ... there still isn't that understanding.

It does sound as though we share similarities.
I'm wondering why you have been diagnosed with ptsd though and not bpd.

I find it easier to relate to people in formal situations.  In social situations I'm a mess.  I guess that comes back to lacking identity and a sense of self.
I never trusted anyone.  Probably still don't 100% but I am much improved.
I saw my GP weekly for almost three years before I felt comfortable addressing him by his first name.  Our relationship has grown but it has been a slow process.

Hope can be a very distant and faint light at the end of a very long tunnel some times.  The mhs drove all hope away from me.  They labelled me as being difficult and different and blamed me for all the systems failures.  It wasn't until I saw that good T that I started to believe that maybe I could make the necessary changes.

Maybe you wouldn't need that constant supervision.  I don't know about you but having people in my space actually stressed me out more and made me feel worse.  I felt I was going to have a heart attack in hospital because I was so stressed.
Having a containing environment can help.  I found that not needing to stress about food and meals and finances was a huge help.  I have issues with body image, etc.  Maybe you do need that level of supervision I don't know.  You will know what works best for you.

Stop running then and stand still.  I can understand where you're at because I would freak out if I had to try and break the cycle especially when unwell.  It seems so logical though.

My cousins death reinforced a lot of my losses.  When someone has things you don't it can be confusing.  There is a lot of unresolved stuff there for me that keeps coming up every now and then.
My cousin isn't always the trigger but I do have some pretty bad spots.  I felt that my safety issues were at a consistently dangerous level earlier in the year.  I find it frustrating not having that support.  I started taking a few lorazepam then and I found it helped to stabilize my mood and help me feel more in control.  My anxiety levels have been increasing again due to the referral for the independent review taking so long.

I think we mask a lot of things really well.  I generally are pretty open and honest about my thoughts and feelings when on the internet.  I have had a lot of support from Dr Gould the doctor on the mental health and emotional eating expert forums.  And several of the other experts.  The dental health expert has also provided a lot of emotional support in recent times.  (My teeth can throw me into a suicidal crisis.)

Things are fair.  It's good that you have that contact.

I probably mentioned psychoanalytical psychotherapy before.  have you ever tried that before?
Also, Dr Gould has some websites if you wanted to check them out.  He has one with a free three day trial.  It is myvirtualshrink.com.  I'm not pushing anything.  I tried one of his free trials and I think it helped (for a little bit at least).
I think it helps show some of the emotional stuff and how it contributes to us feeling low.

[shaz853]

I think its hard to know what i need, i want to be alone but i don't want to be alone its weird. I had the psychoanalytical therapy for two years but i refused to go deeper and when he was getting near the problems my panic attacks got worse and i stopped going to him he then sent me for Cbt therapy where i have been since, it does help my therapist knows how to make me think differently well sometimes other times i am so anxious and confused i don't even know what he's saying. I know may be the psychoanalytical therapy might be better in some ways i was supposed to go back again but i never did, i have a better relationship with this therapist anyway.
The hospital worked at the time because i was behaving strangely, there they were able to watch me and know where i was, sometimes i feel ok and other times i feel like i could get in my car and just leave i have to battle with myself to stay here, i shouldn't have to do that.
I still feel weird today i'm not really here i just want to sleep i am so tired. Thanks for the website information i will check it out

[Jaquta]

It can be confusing when everything seems to contradict itself.
It was good that he referred you to somebody else.

I too have been so anxious it is difficult to think let alone follow a conversation.

Having a good relationship with a T is the most important thing.  Without that the therapy isn't as effective.
Therapy shouldn't really be that overwhelming.  If your T is any good they should be able to support you through the process.

When I become unwell and feel trapped and overwhelmed I want to run too.

It's probably stress, anxiety, depression, fatigue, etc.
My GP a while back told me I was banned from going to bed during the day.  I was exhausted and not sleeping at night.  I think it helps to try and get a regular pattern.
Maybe going for a short walk or doing something around the house might help.

[shaz853]

Things have not been so good lately i am having trouble doing anything if i go any slower i will stop. I was away for a night at a respite place it was ok but i feel no better i guess one night won't help, i am so tired. On the positive my social worker was really good really supportive. I have all the help i could have but i still feel like i am falling into this hole and i am afraid i won't be able to get out of it. I just seem to get worse i am afraid no-one will be able to help. I have tried doing things but i am so tired its a struggle and so frustrating, can depression or ptsd improve on its own? I am starting to hate myself the way i look the way i act everything about me is wrong, why? I never used to care, when i look in the mirror i am angry at myself, i get weirder all the time. This is not good. I don't know what to do anymore, i feel so lost.

[Jaquta]

I'm sorry things are so difficult for you.  

It was a positive step for you to spend at least one night in respite care.  I think it would take a week minimum, maybe longer, before you could de-stress some.

There is help available.

Depression is said to resolve itself over a period of time.  I'm not sure that is true though if it is present with another condition.  Maybe, maybe not.

Self-hatred is probably due to your mood and negative thinking.
I think that sometimes attacking yourself makes everything OK or understandable.  Perceiving ourselves as bad and others as good is a defense mechanism.

Caring can be painful.  Sometimes it can be easier for us not too.  Deep down we care a lot though.

I think that if you aren't feeling better with therapy, etc that you should possibly opt for longer respite if it is available or medication or a short hospital admission.  Short probably meaning a week but you will be the best judge of how long you need.
Those options would be enough to stress me out but I think they are the way forward.

You will probably know deep down what you want, what is that?
When I was unwell I often wanted people to chuck me in hospital (so that I had something to protest about or say that I was here because they put me here).  I didn't want to take any responsibility for admission or for anything.  I really needed people to do that for me although I still wanted some control in the decision making process.

Is your partner able to take leave and you go on holiday somewhere together, would that help?

What do you think you need or need to do?

Self-harm is not an option and we're looking for options where we don't make our situation worse.

[shaz853]

Yeah, i feel like i would like someone else help me decide, i'm not sure about hospital it scares me, i get bored and i know in the longer respite i would get bored it gives me too much time to think about things that depresses me even more. I woke today with the same thoughts of escape and everytime i get in the car i think could today be the day, but i am so tired and i know i would probably back out then feel bad because i am a coward and can't go through with it, then i have the embarassment of the police looking for me although last time they never found me. I have my therapist tomorrow but he doesn't listen unless i go in and say unless you help me i am going to kill myself but i feel guilty he is helping its me who won't take the medication, what more can he do? My partner has left his job to be at home with me something happened last year and i'm not safe at home alone, i can't go into details its too personal and this site is easily read. anyway that hasn't helped although before it i was going downhill anyway. I should be glad to be here but everything is so not right do you ever get that? I feel i am fighting a losing battle with this getting worse instead of better. Thanks for your help

[Jaquta]

Bored probably means that you should find something to do to occupy yourself.  When I don't have stuff to do I feel that my day is interminable.  It can be hard to deal with.
If you're worried about having too much time to think about stuff which depresses you or makes you feel powerless then therapy would be a good option.  Therapy I found can sometimes give you a sense of purpose and direction.

Maybe you should try and change your thinking.  Maybe acknowledge that you feel pretty bad and know that it is OK.  You have the ability to change and will when you're ready.

You should never feel bad because you have stayed safe or made a healthier option.  Sometimes things do become just about self-preservation.  Do what you need too in that moment to keep yourself safe.  Things may feel bad but they can be resolved.

I am on the side of your healthy part.  While I can understand how bad the bad is I am on the side of accessing appropriate support and making positive changes.

I think that when we don't act it means that we don't want it and that we have protective factors.  Work with what is keeping you alive.

If a T is told that then they have an obligation to act on it.  Talking about safety is one way to get peoples attention and get them to listen a little but after a while it will become old and they won't care.
Safety become such a huge issue for me and I was discussing it with my GP a bit and he said he was blunted to it.  I wish I could have just done that too and made it go away.

Not taking medication shouldn't be the end of the world.  While it may make his job harder he still has other skills that he can fall back on.  He needs to be patient, consistent and to keep listening.

There are always messages which are private if you want to discuss things that way.

I feel a little sorry for your partner, it must be hard for him.  He must really care for you.  I expect he must feel a little frustrated by the situation.

I think people are helping you but that you are too scared to access that help.
One day these people will go and others wont ask if you need help.  That's how it was for me.  I rejected their help then I decided I wanted it and nobody was there.

Yep.  I'm feeling a little like that at the moment.  I've been getting agitated again because of some stuff going on.  I've been binge eating badly the last week and have put on lots of weight.  I was running, was planning on doing a half marathon in two weeks, but injured myself and have become anxious and depressed.  My parents are having severe marital issues and finances have been quite an issue.  Plus there hasn't been any support and I am iron deficient which means I get tired quite quickly.  And I have a sore finger.  =(

I'm going to the doctor today to talk about some issues.  My GP has been away on leave and doesn't get back till next week.  Things have deteriorated to the point where I don't even want to talk to him.

If things aren't getting better talk to your social worker or T and go to hospital.  I'm sure your partner will support you through that.  As scary as the help is, don't run from it.  It is much easier to stop running now than in several years time.  Trust me, you don't want an indefinite period of emotional pain.  As hard as it is to talk now it is never as bad as dealing with all the emotional stuff alone.
Also, this wont break you as long as you talk to people and that will help you start moving forward.  Lean on that support.  It is what it is there for.

[shaz853]

I hope you get to see your doctor and that it helps, i know its frustrating having to wait to see someone. I also have weight issues and the more depressed i get the more weight i put on that doesn't help. I feel i need to sort this now it will only get worse and i don't want to be hospitalized against my will i would rather go of my own accord, i'm not sure what to do i am going to talk to my therapist and tell him i feel ready bad but i know if he offers hospital that i will say no. My partner is supportive and i know it must be hard for him.
I know i need to accept myself but i find it hard i don't want to be like this, i need to know tomorrow what i am going to say and accept the consequences that come with it they need to listen thats why i'm so angry i'm frustrated but then again what di want them to do just take the pain away i can't i have tried. I am tired talking about safety and how to keep myself safe, but i guess part of me must want to be safe.
I hope you get your problems sorted too, i'm sure your lifes not easy either. Tomorrow i will be telling them how desperate i get they need to listen. Thanks again

[Jaquta]

I received a phone call this morning saying that the doctor was out and that my appointment had been cancelled.  I guess everything will have to wait till next week.

Food is just being used to help us manage our emotions.
My weight does up and down.  It is rarely stable or stable for very long.  My GP doesn't seem to think I have a problem but then he only sees issues with the extremes.

Self-acceptance can be a difficult issue to work through especially when you hate where you're at and what you're doing to yourself.

The pain doesn't just miraculously vanish.  It is something that needs to be worked on.  It is an ongoing and often long-term process.  Things do get better though.

I sometimes wanted to talk about methods just to show how bad I felt.  It is not the method that matters though but the feelings.  It took me ages to learn that.

Probably talking about safety and managing it seems invalidating.  It is telling you or assuming you will manage your distress when you so badly want it to be validated or heard.

You don't need to keep thanking me.  Communication is a two-way process and you're helping me too.

I think that you should go with what you want and need.  I was going to suggest writing a list of pros and cons or doing it in your head.  I think that is too much thinking though.

I think that based on what you've told me about where you're at now that you should strongly consider hospital as an option.  If neither respite nor therapy nor visits with the social worker are helping you feel any better and you wont take medication (and that's probably not a good idea at this point unless it's supervised) then I don't think you have too many other options available to you.  I wouldn't ever recommend you go down the route of ect.

Why don't you commit to going to hospital, talk to your partner about your decision and have him attend your therapy appointment with you.  Admission may be easier through your T.  ??  Ask your partner to make sure you go (and stay).  You could decide on some progress parameters you need to meet before you can be discharged.

You know things aren't right and aren't good.  You need to be brave and take steps to address your issues.  I know it is frightening, terrifying in fact.  Lean on your partner and others and let them help you.  You can do it.  I know it's not going to be easy but I believe in you.  Making this one small step could change your life forever.
Talk to your partner.

[shaz853]

Thats bound to be frustrating having to wait to next week, can you get an emergency appointment if you want one? I talked to my social worker today and i am going to respite again on Thursday night i am taking small steps and then my therapist wants me to work it up to stay a week so he can do some intensive therapy for trauma. So i agreed to go its hard for me to leave my children for so long but i told him as i won't take medication i will go to respite.
Its more open than the hospital but it still has its rules, both my therapist and social worker are of next week but i will see my social worker on Thursday and Friday at respite. They said i am to contact the out of hours if i feel i need to but that is easier said than done. My therapist said i need to take more control and he can't tell me what descions to make but he can help me make them when i decide what i need to do.
I feel slighty calmer today but i think its because i am too tired to be suicidal, so hopefully it stays that way but i know in a few days it will be building again, maybe i need to decide that if i get like that again i will contact them and be admitted and stick with my decision. My partner is too soft and gives into me too easily and he won't make me stay somewhere if i am scared. i found hospital boring and i cried all the time everytime someone spoke to me i cried at them, not good. Possibly if i had medication now i would take it all when i would be in my out of control moments. I told my therapist i didn't want my children to know how bad i felt and he said that if i killed myself that they would find out i told him they wouldn't if i drove into something he said the police would know though because i had been reported missing twice and then admitted to hospital because of the amount of medication i had on me so he said they would find out so that was my escape plan thrown out the window. I can see what he was trying to do though and it worked, for now anyway, i think i need to plan it carefully but as i said i am too tired. At least i have reached one decison its calm today but if tomorrow or the next day changes i will go to hospital and i have respite on Thursday so if i hold out until then. I hope all is well with you, apart from the doctor cancelling.

[Jaquta]

They have a drop-in clinic.  I'll wait.  I feel incredibly frustrated.  I was extremely angry yesterday.

How old are your children?

Yes, it is hard to contact others and to ask for help.  Have you planned for respite care the week they are away?  Having that in place before they are away may help.

I think you probably feel calmer because you have the respite in place.  That can take some pressure off, for a little while at least.

I think that that would be a good decision to make especially at this time.
It would probably be easy to make that decision though because in this moment you don't believe you will be in that situation again.  Speaking from experience here.

No, not good but you will get better.  Crying is good.  At least you're getting rid of some of your hurt.

Good on your T to manipulate you for your own benefit.

No planning and no acting.  You will hurt people.  I'm not talking to you so that you can feel energized enough to kill yourself.  No way!!  You can show people how much you hurt in other ways.  Life doesn't have to be a power struggle.  Everyone is trying to help you.  Help you find a space where you feel comfortable, happy, content, ...

Calm is good.  Deep breathing can help you reach that place too.

I still think that while you are making decisions (and making good ones) that you should get your partner on board regarding hospital/ respite, etc.
You could ask your partner not to be soft on you.  I know he does it because he sees you hurting but it's not helping either of you.
Have you ever watched Super Nanny?  It can be a bit like that.  The kids will kick and scream to start with but then they relax and become much happier.

Good luck with everything today (tonight).

[shaz853]

I have two teenagers, two primary school age and two toddlers, i don't like putting too much information on this incase someone i know reads this i know its highly unlikely though. No, i will be on my own next week when they are both of, there is the out of hours service and my therapist asked did i want one of his colleagues to contact me but i said no that it was ok. I have respite this week and then they are of i have nothing planned that week, maybe a night in respite then would be good, you are probably right i am calmer because i know i am going there.
Yeah, my therapist is really good he doesn't take over he wants me to feel in control even though i don't, even when he wanted me to go to hospital he got my social worker to encourage me more, i think he was afraid i would blame him for it but i know he was trying to help.
I agree with you i can say that now about the hospital because i don't feel like that at this moment and if i came to feeling like that again i would be fighting with myself again, its always a battle.
I will try talking to my partner but he doesn't know how bad i feel all the time i try to hide it because it stresses him and he doesn't cope well under stress.
I can see now why respite is so good if it calms me beforehand but on the morning of the day i go i get so anxious and panicky its unreal and even there last time i panicked but i knew i needed to stay to prove to myself that i could.
I think not accepting how bad i feel doesn't help either i seem to think it will go away on its own.
Well, no planning for tonight anyway, i know it would hurt others and my therapist told me he would be devastated and told me that he is human too and has feelings too, i seem to think its just his job but i guess maybe i need to think of him as human too.
Hope you have a good day

[Jaquta]

Confidentiality freaks me out a little too sometimes.  I guess it's hard when the support you are accessing is accessible to the public.  Often I want the support or info, etc but want the privacy.  Strange really when they're kind of mutually exclusive.
I also don't have children that I need to protect.  That must make it harder.

Having someone contact you that week could also be helpful.  That was a good suggestion by your T.  That way you don't have to initiate the contact but you know that there will be contact and support available if needed.
Or if you feel competent enough you could keep control and be the one to call (the after hours team, etc).  I have accessed them several times (here they are the PET team or psych emergency team) and they can be good to talk too.

Maybe when you go to respite this week you could arrange more for next week.  It would probably be easier through your social worker, wouldn't it?

Sometimes I wish T's would just be more assertive and admit us when necessary.  I mean don't force a truck load of treatment on us that we don't want but provide us with a safe environment and some support.  I think that this could at times help our recovery process.

It may put more stress on him in the short-term but long-term it would mean that you are better able to cope and tolerate stuff (and function) and that would put less pressure on him.

Better than any med then.  I think it is the thought of going and what that means to you that is the stressful part.  Often when we are there or start participating the anxiety decreases.  Often things aren't as bad as we think they'll be.

Take any accomplishment.  They are what help to rebuild our confidence in ourselves.  They make us feel heaps better too!!  =)

I think it does get better on its own briefly but that is before we are hit by the next assault.

Your T is a very wise person.

How are you managing with your kids?  How are they managing?  They must sense that something isn't right.  Do you think you could have had post-natal depression?

I think trying to hide things would be absolutely exhausting.  Especially from both your children and your partner.

You must be doing much better than me.  I really couldn't deal with all that responsibility.  Even looking after myself sometimes feels like a chore.  It has been a huge effort.  That's what depression does to you.
You probably need a long break.  Tough when you're a parent though and can't bare to be separated from your children.

Not a bad day.  I wish I were more proactive though and wanting to do more work.  I've been feeling really shut down for a long time and it's not really conducive to working (or productivity for that matter).  

I am living at home with my parents on their farm and that and the work makes me feel even more depressed.
I am waiting for this independent review before I commit to leaving, etc.  As much as I love it here with the issues my parents (and I) have it's not sustainable.  I don't want to feel depressed indefinitely.  I think I may still feel down, just not this down.

My GP is back next week.  It would be nice if there were some progress.  I shouldn't need to wait for a review to make changes, etc.

Sorry!  There's some of my venting.

[shaz853]

Don't worry its good to vent i don't mind you listen to me often enough. I hope you GP is able to help, what is the review about? I wouldn't mind still living with my parents sometimes it would be nice to have no responsibilty sometimes. A farm that sounds really nice.
I guess at times i am not to bad although it is more of a struggle now than it was 2 months ago, i think my older children sense something but they haven't said anything, i don't want them to know because i don't want them to see me that way i want to appear in control. My social worker was right when she said that i put on a front but she said that her and my therapist know that underneath all is not well, i thought they didn't but she said they know more than i let on. My partner gets up in the morning and takes my children to school then he looks after the younger ones i stay in bed until lunchtime even then its hard to get up and decide what to wear, i dress the younger ones and sometimes i make their lunch, maybe do some housework but other than that i do very little compared to what i used to do, i used to have full responsibilty for them and coped very well with it but now i crack at the slightest thing like losing the TV remote. I live in my own world half the time and i like it there, sometimes i want to be alone and i wish they would all go away so i could just go to bed, sometimes i just want to get in the car and drive away i seem to not care anymore about those i leave behind, i used to never be like that if i left my children a few hours i felt bad, i wish i knew why i changed so much. We try to keep the children's lives as normal as possible so hopefully they won't notice too much.
The fact that my parents barely speak to me now is also upsetting its like i matter so little to them that they don't care they have never asked how i am now, in my life i have very little people who care doesn't really say much for me, thats why sometimes if i wasn't here i know that very little people would care.
Yeah sometimes i wish my therapist  would just admit me but i guess he doesn't want me to lose trust in him either or be afraid to talk to him. My social worker needs to sort out the respite for me but maybe i will say to her about it, even though she won't be able to visit to me i'm sure i should be ok.
You still have a therapist don't you? Why i'm asking is that sometimes i see mine out of his office i feel so uncomfortable and end up avoiding him then i feel bad because he is very good to me, i think though maybe he is as uncomfortable as me but then i think i look into it too much instead of just saying hello and not worrying about it. The down side to not feeling so depressed is that the anxiety rises and i panic constantly and i am so restless and agitated but i know then the depression will set in again its just a constant cycle.
I hope you have a good day.

[Jaquta]

The review is about treatment.  I'm hoping that I will be able to access better therapy through it.

You probably changed because you were feeling stressed and overwhelmed and your life wasn't working as you wanted it too.

More people care than you think.  I expect your parents do still care.  I overheard mine saying they didn't care if I were dead.  That doesn't mean that they don't love me though just shows how stressed, etc they are.

Is there a story behind your parents severing contact?  Could you ask them for support?

You also said my children and not our children.  Maybe in the context of us talking that is OK.

No, no T.  In the past when I have and I have seen them in the supermarket I have hidden (made a quick exit down another aisle, etc).  One T said that if she did see me that she wouldn't acknowledge me unless I did so first.  Your T is probably just trying to protect your privacy.  You could talk to him about it.
One doctor I was pretty angry with I could have easily run over his heels with my trolley.  I didn't though, probably just as well.
I talk to an old psych nurse if I ever see him (or guys from the pet team although that is much more uncomfortable).
I find it difficult seeing my GP in town.  I guess it kind of makes me more aware of things I don't have in my life.

I haven't decided which is better anxiety or depression.  Both are hard to deal with.
Deep breaths are good for both anxiety and panic.  Keep reassuring yourself that you're OK.  I've had panic attacks and while they're pretty scary it's better if you can try and relax into them and take back control.
I find activity good for anxiety or if you really felt like it you could try and sort out why you feel so anxious.  My T gave me a card with some stuff on it.  I'll post it another time.

I haven't done anything this morning.  I wanted to ask a question on one of the expert forums but I was too slow.

Take care and have a good day.

[shaz853]

I see that, i wrote my children i'm not sure why i wrote that. I think my therapist knows i am uncomfortable with him so that is probably another reason he's not sure what to do either. My parents only contact me to see my children otherwise my mother wouldn't have made contact. It came from my last suicide attempt and i was missing for ten hours the police contacted my parents and my parents blamed my partner because they don't like him anyway, well i had to come back when they found me and my mother started a row with me, never asked how i felt i told her to go home, the next day i wouldn't talk to her and then i was sent to the hospital i never told them, when i came home she started on me again, at that point i wanted to go back to hospital i was in no state of mind to cope with her. Then there was no contact for weeks then she rang asking to see the children so i agreed, we were never close, things happened when i was a child and it was never mentioned i had to keep it to myself, i have had to hide my anxiety and panic from her all my life she see's it as a weakness and that i am useless, i don't care anymore they hurt me and now i'm over it, i don't need them.
I hope your review goes ok and that you get sorted.
I guess parents don't help your situation at all but i suppose thats the way it is.
I hope you have a good day, its night here i'm not sure if you are on the same time zone or not.

[Jaquta]

Probably because we're discussing both you and me.  They aren't my children, they're yours.  Makes sense that you would use my.  I guess I just assumed that they were your kids.  Both yours and your partner's (if not biologically then emotionally).
Sorry!  It was none of my business.  It just registered for some reason.

Do you think it could be your anxiety which makes your T feel insecure?  I was just wondering if you were projecting that onto your T.  It is not your T who doesn't know what to do, it is you.  ??
If you see your T in town and you feel it is appropriate and safe for you to do so then saying hi would be OK.  Town is not a place to be having a therapy session though.  I guess it is up to both of you to define or clarify the boundaries of your relationship.

I think a family should learn to accept a family members decision regarding relationships with others.
I have a strong connection with my brother but he's been overseas for a bit and has a girlfriend.  The girlfriend is like a leech or shadow.  For me, I feel as though I have lost my brother.  I wish that she would respect my relationship with my brother enough to give us time and space.  She doesn't.  I have to accept that my brother can make his own judgments and that this relationship is important to him.
I think that your parents are both wrong and right.  Right to want whats best for you but wrong to think that they know what that may be.

Do you let your kids stay with your parents?  If you do maybe they would like to take them for a few days.  ??  But then maybe if there's sexual abuse of anything like that in the family I wouldn't take the risk.

It's not your partners fault that you have issues.  Is it?  If you were well your relationship would be fine, wouldn't it?

When I was sectioned (for severe depression) I refused to have any contact with my family.  It hurt my parents, my mum in particular, a lot.
It's hard though when your relationship isn't really all that nurturing.  Or nurturing enough for your needs to be meet.  My mother would undermine or invalidate me a lot.  My father is pretty passive except at times when I feel he should be supporting me and then he will support my mother.  More because he is misguided.
If the relationship were comfortable and people would listen then maybe I would have been more open and honest with them.  My family are close but we don't communicate or when we don't we don't do it well.
My mother has gotten in my face sometimes too when I have been unwell and I have called her a lot of names.  None of them very respectful.

People do that for many different reasons.  Some because they are ashamed, some because they don't want to have to confront it.  There are lots of different reasons.
I think that is extremely damaging to a child though and believe that the parent should do everything in their power to protect their kid/s.  I'm sorry that this happened to you and that your mother wasn't there to support you.

I don't think it's entirely true when you say you don't need them.  On some level we all need our parents.
For me that is the same with safety issues, etc.  They can't deal with them or the thought of me having them so deny they exist.  Their behavior forces me to keep many of my thoughts to myself.  They will often use things I say to attack me with.  My mum complained to me the other day that I don't share what I'm thinking with others (meaning her and my family).  The truth is they only hear what they want to hear they don't want me to talk about things that make them feel uncomfortable.  Everything's my fault anyway.
They don't talk to others about my mental health issues and I had treatment for breast cancer a while back which they don't disclose (unless it's beneficial to them).
People must just think I'm that useless person living at home.  We go through more than people give us credit for.

I still haven't been offered an appointment time yet.  It will be 5 weeks this week that my GP sent the referral.  It's interesting when people perceive that time isn't an issue.  I often live my life day by day or second by second if it is very bad.  Five weeks is a long time to wait.  Nearly two years is also a long time to wait for therapy.

I live in NZ.  That's usually about 12 hours apart.  Daylight savings is this weekend.

I probably shouldn't be using the computer as much as I am but I think I'm really needing the distraction at the moment.

Well, talk to you whenever.  Day, night -whatever.

[shaz853]

Yeah, i would say it is me who is uncomfortable not my therapist i do say hi if i see him face to face but sometimes i avoid eye contact so i don't have to, i don't think there would be much chance of me saying anything more than hi to him, i did meet him quite alot when i went the gym a few years ago but the conversation was very limited but its better that way because its better that he is kept at a distance because i can talk slightly better that way.
My father would also be passive and my mother is agressive and he always sides with her, was your breast cancer treatment successful, you have been through a lot, i get the feeling that my parents are ashamed of me full stop it would really push it if she knew i had been in a mental hospital.
Five weeks is a long time espically when you are waiting on an appointment, i waited two years for therapy once too, but i learnt alot of ways to help myself i had no choice.
Our daylight saving was last weekend this is Easter weekend. we had blizzards last night it was terrible its usually milder than this.
I had another terrible day i ended up calling my therapist he told me to come and see him, it helped a bit he talked about me taking control and he will help me, him and my social worker have made up a care plan for me although he didn't go into detail but it involves me going to respite once a week or fortnightly, its stressful for my partner but my therapist says if it helps me then my partner will benefit. I am so out of control at times its scary, we talked about medication again i told him no i am too scared. I understand what you mean about other peoples reactions to your needs my partner is the same he thinks it should be so easy to keep yourself safe and to control your emotions if only, it also means like you i keep alot of stuff to myself, it would be nice if people totally understood but i think unless you experience it you have no idea.
The thing with my children you were right in a way the older two are mine not his and i used to have more control over the children than him but lately i have been giving that up to him, my therapist tells me not too but i am so tired all the time its hard to care.
My family aren't close at all i have two brothers and the youngest one used to always make me feel so uncomfortable at my mums shouting at my children and stuff and no one ever stands up to him i kept quiet to keep the peace i wish now i hadn't because they don't care about my feelings, my mother is very critical and nothing i ever do is good enough, but in her eyes my brothers are perfect, i shamed them by getting pregnant at 16 and not staying in the relationship, he tried to kill me by banging my head against a wall and they asked me what had i done to provoke him, imagine they supported him more than me.
Do you know if you are 12hrs ahead or behind its evening with me now, and i think my therapist had a calming effect on me, i guess he had to see me i was crying so much on the phone i could hardly speak, anyway he reckons that anger coming out in terms of smashing things is better than hurting myself.
I hope all is well with you

[Jaquta]

I think a 'Hi' is acceptable.  I don't think these people need to be psychoanalyzing us in their spare time.  They have lives too.
A bit of a gym junkie aye.  Sounds good.  I use to love the gym when I went.

I was all clear at my last appointment.  I haven't been to the last three three-monthly follow-up appointments due to stress and anxiety.  I hate people touching me and if I am stressed I eat a lot which then makes me feel incredibly self-conscious.

It's their issues not yours.  Is sad that their attitude affects you though.  Half the time I think that that is why we are so sick in the first place, because of their attitude and behavior.  Really for them it is easier to cut of the aspect of themselves that they don't like.  Deep down it doesn't really change anything though.  They are still the same.  Something else is also bound to come along that will cause their defenses to be triggered.

When I am left to my own devices it makes me wonder whether I actually need their support.  Deep down I know I do though although I can continue existing and surviving alone.  That's not really how I want to be living my life.

Is Easter Friday here tomorrow.
The weather is a strange thing.  It was freezing here last winter (coldest in 35 years) and this summer we have had a once in a lifetime drought.  Go figure.
Sounds cold.  

No.  Just like we can make assumptions about other things, etc we also have limited idea unless we have been there.  If people are empathetic it helps.  Not being judged doesn't push us as far away as we could be.  Mental illness can be quite challenging with its stigma and all that.  It can be difficult to work through on so many different levels.

I would support your T.  Just because he sounds so onto it in other areas.

Same here.  My brother is quite a bit younger than the rest of us and he gets a little spoilt sometimes.  Mum loves us all but sometimes it feels different and not equal.
I have two brothers and two sisters.
Your brother sounds as though he needs someone to stand up to him and to be put in his place.

I don't even know what to say.  Anger is an emotion I feel in response to that.

I think ahead.  In 2000 part of our country was said to see the sun first.

Crying is good.  Smashing can become expensive and soon you could run out of things to break.  =)
Talking to your T seemed like a brilliant idea.  Good on you for doing that.  That is how you start to get well.

I'm going to town today.  Are looking forward to that.  I think I have to buy a yellow Massey dvd for my nephew.  Bob the builder was quite riveting.

[shaz853]

Yeah i think its ahead as well i have respite tomorrow and i am looking forward to the break although i do get bored i need to take books with me the last time i read The da vinci code its really good i saw the movie as well. So its Friday tomorrow with you my tomorrow is Thursday i am still in Wednesday night.
I hope you enjoy your day in town, i am familiar with bob the builder as well and fireman sam is very popular in my house.
I am slightly calmer but i am tired and i know tomorrow i will have respite so that makes it better although i panic when i am there and get anxious i know that really its a safe environment to relax in well try too.
I used to love the gym i went four and five days a week it really helped the anxiety then my last two children were born a year and a half apart and i haven't got back into it again, i have put on weight since they were born and the more depressed i get the more i eat then i feel worse, my therapist goes alot i guess it helps with his stress as well. I agree therapists have lives too and i would never expect nothing more from him than hi.
I don't want to be alone either so i can see why you stay with your parents at least they are some support, i think if i had no children my life would be different i'm not sure if it would be for the better or the worse though i didn't develop panic attacks until after my first child was born and it got worse with each one, so basically i have spent the last 16 years in therapy with a two year break in the middle, funny though when i was single and broke up with my first boyfriend i was single for a year and i had no panic attacks or anxiety i think thats telling me something.
I need to try to control my temper as you say it can be expensive, its a new thing to me i am usually calm well apart from the anxiety.
I hope you have a good day.

[Jaquta]

I don't have time to talk now but good luck for respite.  My Friday morning will be your Thursday night so will probably miss you.

Enjoy the reading.