autoantibodies

[littlepearl]

l have Hashimoto's and my thyroid has been destroyed by the antibodies. So what happens to the antibodies now, are they onto the next organ and destroying that or are they satified now that my thyroid is gone and self destructed?
Thankyou, littlepearl

[shauneegirl]

Everyone has agenda's.  Thats the world.
All I am saying is that her info helped me.  Not cured me.  I dont see any reason why not give credit where its due.  Lots of people are considered jokes, even in the info is correct.  

My info is correct, and I stand by it.  Selinum works.  Period.  The reason I was referring to being a med student is because this is my area of constant study, because like you, I want to get better one day and not suffer.

I dont know why I was hoping you might understand that.  If you dont agree, too bad.  I really dont want you to email me again.  

[shauneegirl]

your welcome to have your own opinion, but dont try to discredit me and then expect me not to "personally attack" you - as you would put it? You try to curb YOUR personal attacks.

I have studied this for over 4 years now.  I have suffered from this terribly!  I had lost my hair, lost my eyebrows almost completely, lost my lashes, gained weight, lost work, and suffered while on nothing by thyriod meds.  It wasn't until I started trying the "tips" in Mary's books and advise lines, that I finally started seeing my levels smooth out and my TPO's go down.  Ofcourse she sells books, she is an author - thats what they do.  Write stuff about their experiences, and sell it.  DUH!  It doesn't mean she isn't careful about what she published.  In the back of all the books, there are lists and list of research, bibliographies - credible sources.  I checked into some of them as well.  I am not her publicist,  and I have no idea why she affends you, but she has helped me quite a bit.  

I went to my college (med student) and pulled medical journals, trail data logs, all kinds of credible info.  I could literally fill a closet full of the knowledge that I had to look up.  So based on what info would you say I dont do my research?  You dont know what your talking about, and lack diplomacy.  Try asking me before assuming.  

Anyways "littlepearl" - listen to your own body, and try it.  I never said I had a deficiency, because I dont.  But adding 250 mcg of Selenium is driving down my TPO's.  No - I am not cured, and I hope to find a cure one day. I still suffer with my weight and other symptoms everyday, but not even near as bad as I used to. I am always hopeful.  But I do whatever I can to make it better, and this makes it better THE PROOF IS IN MY BLOODWORK.  My Endo agrees with me, and has tried it with success so far.  Its just a supplement.  I have no Idea why AR-10 is making such a big deal over something thats totally harmless.  Take your meds as prescribed and just give this a try, if its not right, your body will let you know and your blood work will to.  Good luck.  

[AR-10]

I realize you are trying to help this person. I am trying to help this person as well, and inform you at the same time.

Calling me names is not going to help any of us. Calling Mary Shomon what she really is will.

Congratulations! You found the one study available that ran nine months. And just like I said, the last sentence concludes that the suppression rate declined over time.

And where was this study done? Turkey, a country where selenium deficiency is not uncommon. But none of the test subjects had their selenium levels checked before the study. How are the test subjects doing a year later? We don't know.

The thing about Mary Shomon and her "Big News" on Selenium, is this;

She quoted a different study that showed DRAMATIC results. But it was a smaller study, with all the same flaws that the study you present have. What she didn't mention was that half the placebo people showed improvement as well. One of the placebo people had their TPOab drop below normal limit.

So the study that she was waving around and using to make inflated claims was worthless. I'd find it for you, but I dislike going to her site for any reason. I'm sure you can find it. The actual study is on the same website that you posted above, along with three or four others.

I read them all. Repeatedly.

Selenium may help anyone with high TPOab antibodies. It is often beneficial. How much and for how long is variable.

Or it may not help. It's worth a try, but it is not certain to be of any benefit.

You made blanket statements based on personal experience.
Your endorsement of Mary Shomon is a bit exagerated.
Read your post again.
Try to curb your bent toward personal attacks.

[GravesLady]

Its debatable if your thyroid is totally destroyed.   As long as there is even the smallest part of the thyroid still functioning, antibodies can still attack and play havoc with us and our levels. Even when thyroid is totally destroyed antibodies still hang around but they just don't have a target to hit anymore. They may decrease in numbers or  possibly go into remission, however, remission is only temporary.
They will not attack other organs because they are strictly thyroid antibodies.
I have read that once thyroid is dead, semi or total, it can become active again, however this is very rare.  As well as surgery, with leaving behind residue thyroid tissues, the thyroid can re-grow - and here comes the antibodies.  

There is no cure or treatment for antibodies right now, but! science is working very hard on this and is very close to some autoimmune conditions such as diabetes.
Cheer up! it could be worse - good luck!

GL
thyroid patient

[littlepearl]

Sorry l asked!!
l have done my "research" l wanted to know what caused painful joints in Hashimoto's
e.g. antibodies attacking the thyroid set up inflammation, does that inflammation then affect the body systemically? Not just, "Hashimoto's causes painful joints" that's obvious.
lilpearl

[AR-10]

Yes, you're a med student. You keep saying that like it makes a difference. It doesn't.

There is a difference between disputing a statement you made and calling you names. I have not attacked you once. I have disagreed with you and explained my position.

You said "Selinium does lower your TPO's (the anitbodies attacking your thyriod) and you should take it.  Mary Sholmon - who is an EXPERT on Hashimitos and a patient advocate turned me on to it.  SHE IS 100% RIGHT."

That is a very emphatic statement that is also incorrect. I simply pointed out that selenium works do some degree for some people, but it is not going to help everyone.

If you consider being corrected a personal attack, that is a problem you need to work on.

Accepting everthing on Mary's site as gospel truth is a big mistake. Her ongoing war with the manufacturers of Synthroid is a perfect example. She sensationalizes and represents the issues in a light that does not reveal the truth. She has agendas. She is an internet joke.

This discussion is over.
If you want to continue, do it by IM.

[shauneegirl]

Wow, do you realize I am trying to help this person?  Or do you just blast people in general?  I have followed alot of Mary's very helpful advise.  Not all solutions work for everyone, but alot of her solutions helped me in small amounts.  A few small helpful things add up to a large benefit.  Like for instance, I had no idea that Soy was making me sick.  I stopped eating it, and am not sick.  Have you even read any of her work?  

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00271427?cond=%22Thyroiditis%2C+Autoimmune%22&rank=1

There ya go hotshot.  I can keep going.
I am my own clinical trial - and it is working.  I didnt say I could cure - I just said this helped me.  Read my post again genius.

[AR-10]

Mary Shoman is an expert at nothing other than twisting the truth. She insinuates herself into a lot of positions that make her look important or knowledgeable, and promotes every quack theory that comes along.

She is 100% into selling books.

You keep talking about research, but you are not very discriminating in your own.

Go back and look at these Selenium studies you keep referencing. Most of them are short term studies that are meaningless. Who cares if two thirds of the study group showed improvement if half the control group also showed improvement on sugar pills?

I am not knocking Selenium. I take it. It hasn't lowered my TPOab one bit. It does help some people. What I am saying is the studies are ALL either flawed or short term. I have read every one I could find. Most of them are three month studies with less than 100 people, including the control group.

One of them had seventeen subjects. Total.

Most of them were conducted in european countries notorious for Selenium deficient populations. The United States does not have that problem.

There WAS one study I found that was a nine month study. The conclusion was that as the study went on, the benefit declined.

If you have access to long term studies or studies that show something conclusive, I would be interested in seeing them. None of the studies I looked at proved anything.

To begin with, not one of those studies indicates that they took the time to test for Selenium deficiency before proceeding.

I believe Selenium can be beneficial to some people. Blanket statements that it will help anyone with TPOab are misleading.

[shauneegirl]

I have the same condition as you.  Now I know "Graveslady" isn't going to like this, but I feel it imparitive to impress on people who's doctors dont know what I found, Selinium does lower your TPO's (the anitbodies attacking your thyriod) and you should take it.  Mary Sholmon - who is an EXPERT on Hashimitos and a patient advocate turned me on to it.  SHE IS 100% RIGHT.  I tried it personally with blood work, I can gladly share my med records.   I highly suggest reading her articles on about.com - she is really knowledgable.

Also - Joint pain is linked to "hashimitos" - do your research.  Its not the antibodies though..... Just look it up.

Hashimitos thyriodosis is directly linked to rheumatoid arthritis - as a matter of fact, its also an autoimmunity.  If you have a relative with it, there is a good chance that you may also have it or another related autoimmune disorder.  Just check with your Endo - he will back up this info.  

[Mark Lupo, M.D.]

The treatment of hypothyroidism (from any cause) is levothyroxine -- there is not additional treatment proven to be helpful for Hashimoto's.   There is a slight increased risk of other autoimmune problems, but the thyroid antibodies typically do not attack any other organ/gland besided the thyroid.

[GravesLady]

Joint pain is sometimes seen in thyroid imbalance - both too much and too little. This doesn't mean the antibodies are attacking the joint.  Thyroid antibodies attack the thyroid only, causing thyroid imbalance, which in turn causes symptoms - joint pain might be a symptom.  Thyroid antibodies can not attack the liver, lungs, etc.

There a other  autoimmune health conditions with antibodies in which the autoimmune condition can cause pain and inflammation of the joints.  These antibodies cannot attack the thyroid.  

Specific autoimmune conditions have specific antibodies.

[littlepearl]

Thankyou for your reply, it is very informative.
l have read that joint pain is caused by the antibodies causing inflammation in the joints, have you heard anything about this?
All the best.
littlepearl