4 year old child with pain when poops and tummy pains
My 4 year old daughter out of the blue a year ago started screaming,crossing her legs,crying,and doing anything she can to not pass her poop. She is NOT constipated,but all doctors want to treat it like she is. The poop is soft and hard,she even does it with the runs. Took her to the ER in Nov 05 where they did bloodwork,urine,CT scan,X-Rays, and a morphine drip. They found nothing and sent her to the local childrens hospital who did nothing but review what the other ER did and sent her home. Her former pediatrician put her on Lactulose which I feel did more harm than good. Increased fluids,fiber, and all that do not help. She eats the same foods she has always eaten, but it just started one day out of the blue! She only eats foods like Chicken Nuggets,pasta's, cucumbers,and things like that. I wonder if its a food allergy as no one has ever suggested testing her. Her very first x ray which I fought the pediatrician to send her for showed poop all the way up to her rib-cage she was holding for so long and they just kept pushing me to give her medicines. She also is having a lot of dental problems and I wonder if all of this is causing her teeth to develop weak enamal or something. I hate seeing her in pain, and the ER trip happened because she was in so much pain she was screatching,would not unroll from a ball,and threw up twice on the way there, so I took her in, but they just do not know how to deal with kids so they always say its constipation...but I am telling everyone that she is not constipated and the pain is there even in her sleep so its not mental. Help Pls!
I have been taking both my girls to my doctor for several months, but I think they are the only children that they see, so they are not extremely up on childrens issues. He is great and we all love him, but I think another pediatrician might be our best bet right now. Our family dr thinks its constipation,anal fissures and in her head. She has some antispasmodic medicine she can take when it gets really painful,but even at 4 she knows when she needs it. She is scared to potty train now as well, so this is putting her behind in that area. She does not speak a lot and when she does its not always with complete sentences, so her former pediatrician kept wanting speech therapy, but all they did was totally pee her off and make her throw a huge temper tantrum. I just wish I knew what it was. Is is crohns, or something wrong with her intestines or digestive system? It's strange that just out of the blue this started. I forgot to mention also that she gets a rash in her butt cheeks when she squeezes her cheeks to avoid pooping. The rash will turn raw and bleed w/in a very short time, not even a day. I just wish doctors took mothers more seriously. The nurse practitioners at the former ped. office were her main care as the doctor was always cancelling and rescheduling due to family problems!some doctor huh, and thats why we left that practice. My mother and I both had it out with the Nurse Practitioner and half the staff could not stand her attitude either.
I had the same sort of thing at that age (first note). They never figured out what was wrong, and it never really went away, but did get better. But now that i'm older i had things get worse and turns out I have IBS (with constipation, diarhea (diarrhea), cramps and bloating)-I can get to the point were it was as painful as labour (and i did not have an epidural). Whether or not that is what it was then or not, following the IBS life style has helped. My mother has also had Gastrointestinal problems all her life, and now my infant son also seems to be aquiring some as well (already having problems with constipation/diarhea and anal fisures).
I don't know if that helps or not. Hope it did a little.
i had the same symptoms as a kid as well and it turns out that i have IBS (irritable bowel syndrome) my doctors tell me to take fiber and it seems to have helped...im not sure that at 4 it is safe but check with your family doctor, they should be able to help.
Sounds like she needs to be referred to a specialist, possibly a gastro-intestinal or digestion doctor. Is it possible she is having stomach acids leak into her fecal matter which would burn her anus and cause her lots of pain. Sometimes when I eat something that doesn't digest well, I experience that and it makes me want to cry too. She could be having something cause her acids to leak, I don't know what it could be, whether it's viral or IBS or what. You definitely need to see a specialist right away, I hate it when doc's say it's in their head! She's in pain and that's all that matters, making her feel better. You're a good mother for pushing the doctor's, don't stop! I will be praying for you and your daughter.
My girl, now 9, had a withholding issue, that didn't manifest itself until the potty training came up. She would do number 1 on the toilet, but when it came time to poop, she would request a diaper. Well, at 4 1/2, that gets a little too much, so we put the pressure on her to do #2 on the toilet. Well, the whole thing backfired. She would withhold day after day, and in doing that, created new problems with feeling uncomfortable. And when there is pain involved, it becomes a vicious cycle. She was treated with laxatives, suppositories, and ended up with a very irritated colon. To the point where she had a bloody stool. My answer to the situation was to just let her do what she wants to do. She pooped in her diaper a while longer, and I accepted it. Finally, she was ready to give up the diaper, but it took a while. Will your daughter go #2 in the diaper? I think your daughter's symptoms are real, in that she has pain, etc., but maybe the root of the problem is the potty training. If you think it is, maybe just lay off the issue. Good luck...
I sure feel for both of you. And you are SO right to not let th docs convince you that this is all psycological. I think these ladies are on the right track with the IBS possibility which is a very serious condition to live with, especially for a child! I think seeing a Gastrointerologist is in order, but make sure that they will see a child her age. Some won't.
I wonder if they will even give the appropriate tests such as a Colonoscopy to a child her age, but geeze. someone has to do something. Maybe she has something that is mainly seen in adult patients so they are just not looking in the right place. This is so frustrating, I won't to be able to tell you how to fix this, but I just don't know.
My husband had simular symptoms, but as an adult. Turned out he had Diverticulitis and polyps in his colon that were oon the verge of turning cancerous. It took a Colonoscopy to diagnose him and also remove the polyps. It saved his life. That's why I wonder if they can test your daughter this way. It gives such a clear picture of EVERYTHING. I do suggest that while you are playing the waiting game, do NOT let her eat foods with seeds, nuts, corn, popcorn, or cheese. The seeds and nuts can tear the bowel if there are weak pockets or spots, and the cheese tends to harden the stool and make it pack into the bowel.
I wish I could offer you ALL of the answers you need. And I hope you can find someone to help her very soon. Let us know how she is doing. Your quest to have your daughter dx'd may help someone else.
My daughter will not do anything on the potty and I think its because of all this mess with her tummy and butt. She will sit on the potty if we put her there and will read or play her leapster, but we have only went #1 one time. I have had to give her an enama twice, but she gets this huge ball of poo out that would hurt an adult, about the size of a softball. I am not pushing her to potty, but she always rushes into the bathroom with her sister or me or her grandmother are in there, so she knows she should use it but she is a stubborn child. She is strong willed and when she is ready to do something she will usually do it, no matter what it is. She is also now suffering horrible seperation anxiety from me and I cannot fathom why. She used to stay with her daddy or her grandma with no fuss, but ever since I took her to the ER she has just not wanted to let me leave her alone with anyone else. Has anyone ever heard of that one? This is a child who doctors in the past told me was behind her age level in development and needed speech therapy because she will not talk in sentences. I have no faith in this as they are the same people who told me that my 5 year old was working at an 18 month level because she could not draw a picture of a MAN for the nurse practitioner!!! and she does not speak clearly...well she does have allergies and that will cause this. My sister is the same way and she is smart as a whip. My 5 year old went to K5 just a couple of months after they told me she was basically retarded, and the teacher said she was ready to start and she has been doing great in school. I lost a lot of faith in the medical community of that day! I will be switching to a new pediatritian and hopefully they can be pushed by mommy here to do some testing and referrals to Pediatric specialists. We are in need of answers and I will post the answers when I can get them. I just hope that one day the medical community will take children a little more serious. I mean how would you feel if you took your child to what is billed as one of the best pediatric hospitals on the east coast only to have them send her home without doing anything, without even so much as pushing on her tummy or doing some testing? I was very ticked off and hope that if a child is dying or seriously ill they take it more serious than they took mine. Can you tell I think doctors are not very smart right now.
How often is she moving her bowels? If it is everyday or even everyother day or so, and the stool is not hard, it is probably often enough. Everyone is different. But, you said she is passing really big stool, so how long is she withholding? When my daughter had this problem, I did, at two separate times, give her a suppository, which made her have a bm. She did not like this at all, and the whole thing was traumatizing to her. Try not to make a big deal out of this, because it will stress her out. She is probably more stressed about this than you are. Keep a close, but silent eye (to her) on this, too. Try to clear up her rash, if she has one with some Desitan, or anti-biotic cream, keep a note on how often and consistency of her bms. If she is complaining of tummy pains, etc. take her to the doctor. And if you are not happy with the one you have, find another pediatrician. I am not a medical professional, just a mom, so follow your instincts. But, I have known two withholders, my daughter, and her cousin, and it can be a trying situation. You don't want her to end up with a perforated bowel, or other problem. But, for my daughter, it was simply a case of letting her do what she wanted to do, and getting her back on track, and let nature do its thing. Your daughter may have a withholding issue or medical issue. Keep us posted...
Well, she definitely sounds constipated. I would not give her any bananas, rice, apple sauce, or toast. That is the BRAT diet, and helps to bulk a person up. You want the opposite. My doctor suggested prunes, but you really can't get a 5 year old to eat something like that unless they are already used to it. At least I couldn't. Does she like raisins? Juice? You might be able to mix a little prune juice into her sippy cup combined with another juice. Not too much, or it will not taste like regular juice, and she sounds like she knows what she wants. Encourage fruits, but not bananas. I even read that dark chocolate will soften the stool, but you wouldn't want to get her in the habit of eating too much of that. Maybe try Propel, that's the flavored water. Kind of expensive, but it's really good and I am not much of a water drinker. Good luck and let us know how she is doing.
She use to have nearly 3 bm's per day, but now she might have about 5 or 6 where its just a lot of little "rabbitt pelletts" in her diaper. She may have just one or two little round balls each day or she sometimes can go several days with no pains and then all of a sudden BAM the pain and screaming is back. I do not know what is going on. I though maybe she is getting too much soda so I am tryin very hard to get her to drink water and cool-aid, anything instead of soda (which is caffeine free). I would love to find its something as simple as not enough water in her system and not something serious. Anyone know if that could be her problem? She is set in her ways and is very picky about what she eats and drinks, so its not easy to get her to change. She has very strong butt cheeks, this kid is so strong you literally have to hold her legs apart and it takes all my strength to do it in order for her to poop sometimes. She is good too, I gave her a suppository two times I tried and each time I kid you not she pushed it out, just the suppository though! I think she is just so strong willed that she is so in control of this situation that she does not want to let go of it. Not to be nasty, but just now and its happened many times before, I changed her diaper with one little doodie ball and you look and you can see her but still open with poop in there but she is holding it in. I have given 2 enamas already (Jan then Feb) when this happens and that is usually when the really really big ones come out, but she does get huge ones out here and there after holding for several days. I just wish I could get her figured out and fixed then potty trained. I do not push that issue, but I hope one day she will say I am tired of having to stop what I am doing to lay down and get changed. Its easier and with underwear more comfy than pullups. I will keep you posted on what we find.
Oh, and the separation anxiety thing. My daughter used to do the same thing! Cry and cry while leaving her at school. Well, that finally stopped this year, and she is 9. My daughter has always been a little on the anxious side. And still wants to know when I will walk the dog outside. Your little one is probably having separation anxiety because of her not feeling well. Only you know your daughter best, and they can be master manipulators. If you think she is physically okay, but has separation anxiety, you might just want to be firm with her, in a loving way, but that you have got to go. But, on the other hand, if she is physically sick, it wouldn't make sense to be that harsh.
All kids like to cook with mommy. Take her in the kitchen and you two can make Limeade or Lemonade! Take some fresh lemons or limes cut up in a bowl, toss in a bit of suger (however much you like) and squish it all up. Then toss in some crushed ice and the cold water. Let her quish and stir then pour it in a glass. Don't forget the straw! This will make for lots of hydration! She will want to drink what she made herself! And it's good for her with the same amount of suger you'd put into the koolade or find in soda. You can do this with strawberries, blueberries, PRUNES (raisens) whatever! The key is the WATER!! She needs it. I had a couple that witheld. Had to do the suppository route 2 times. That was all it took. If she witheld then I would go to the medicine cabinet and she would be like, That's okay, I'll go!! You can't make it a choice. You are the mom. Just tell her that she is hurting her body by doing this and that the more she goes, it may be hard and painful at first, it WILL get easier.
And I do feel for you. It is so difficult to see your child going through this and knowing what it takes to fix it but having no control.
No cheese and the above listed BULK diet. Maybe ask your Ped about laxative?? And HYDRATE HYDRATE HYDRATE!! That is really the key to making it less panful for her which will make it easier for her to do what she needs to do.
Just know, that this too shall pass. (no pun intended) But they do grow our of this very difficult phase. Mine are all 10 and older now and I no longer have these problems to deal with. It won't be long til this is a thing of the past and you are worrying about other things.LOL Just trying to cheer you up!
Now, off to the kithen!
Thanks everyone for your suggestions so far. I am trying to get more water water water into her, but she is very stubborn on that. I tried suppositories, but that little fart can actually push them out so they do no good. We tried laxatives before, but and some may not believe this but I swear its true, this child took double the adult dose of exlax and did not poop! I called her pediarician at the time and get this, she told me to call poison control because she had no idea what to tell me. The lady at poison control actually called me later that night and again the next day to check on how she was doing,but her doctor did not even give a ****! She sees our family doctor now but I want to switch back to a NEW pediatrician because I think they can give some care that the family doctor cannot, like getting flu shots! Anyway, she is very smart and has been on so much medicine that if she suspects you are trying to put something in her drink or food she will actually smell it and not eat or drink it if she detects anything odd! This little girl is set in her ways, but in the summer you cannot keep her away from watermellon and canteloup. She loves apples, grapes,pears, and peas , so she eats good, its just she likes pepsi (caffeine free),juice (not 100% like juicy juice),and milk. She loves yogurt and in fact right now is taking probiotics to help her and its actually helping her a little from what we see. I am still trying with the water and can get her to drink about 1 cup of water a day, so its a start, but its a long road. The last 2 nights she has come to us and wanted to poop, she sits on our arms and we actually have to hold her legs apart so she cannot clamp them shut and she will scream and push and you can just see this huge lump start pushing on her diaper and then boom its a huge ball of poop about golfball to softball size each time. She will not go on the potty, but we do have her flush it in hopes that she will soon want to go on the potty. She is stubborn and does things at her own pace, she will not talk in complete sentences yet either, but she does talk. I just hope this all ends before next year so she can go to Kindergarten. Thanks again and I will keep you informed to the progress.
I have actually tried a couple of the flavored waters, but no good. She is getting better though about drinking plain old H2O if its out of a plastic water bottle like the deer park brand comes in. Her dentist got fussy about her not drinking water so they suggested the flavored waters like Propel and it was just terrible. I just hope we can keep it going with her trying the water. SHe went nearly two weeks with no problems and now its back to leg crossing and screaming. I just show her the enema bottle and she will usually get it out in a few hours. I will keep posting her results.
my daughters 10 an is having sever lower right abdominal pain since oct 12 ive brought her to emerg 27 times an they did the same thing said it was all phycoligal an its not she also cryies when she poops an the pain is always there an worse when she picks up things i cant believe what our health care has become! they put my daughter threw hell an never gave her proper test im woundering what else there is out there for hope im doin resuirch myself as i think it may have something to do with apendix, is ur daughters pain there all the time have u goten any more answers?
I feel for you so much, my daughter is having issues pushing through and going poop in the potty. But I must say, when i'm stern, she'll go. I give her options and i stick to them. Like in the mornings, I am making sure she is drinking 1/2 water and 1/2 apple juice with a little prune juice. And I sit her at the table to eat her breakfast and her cup, and she never wants to drink it. But she is learning that she will sit at that table with NOTHING, no tv, no games, nothing, until that cup is gone. If she gets up, she goes to time out, and then strait back to the table to drink. She eventually drinks it, and she will go. So I honestly believe you need to be more stern. Through your post you have stated over and over that she is a strong and set in her ways girl... Well you need to be 10x's what she is and make her drink it. You are just making excuses for her. I still think it'd be good to get her into a new pediatrician, but you DEFINITELY need to get serious about making her drink and eat what she needs to otherwise, she might cause SERIOUS, LONG TERM damage to herself... Good luck to you, it will be hard, but you need to do it.
this could be a severe gluten allergy. Gluten free foods are expensive, but sooo worth it ugly it pains you like it does me, and your daughter. There are Gluten-EASE pills, which are small capsules, you could tear them and put the powder in applesauce or yogurt to give to her if she can't swallow pills.
Please try this, many tests don't pick up gluten allergies. It could help and save a lifetime of pain for your daughter.
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