ablation for benign pvcs

[hankstar]

Dear Doctor,
      I posted here before and I thank you very much for providing this most informing service.
      For the past five days I've been experiencing very frequent
pvcs , i have been to cardiologist and, had an ecg which showed the pvcs, had a stress test and did very excellent.
   The pvcs seem to appear right after i eat and go on for hours
sometimes one every other beat at times. I take atenolol 50mg bd, which i've been taken for sometime, but this doesn't seem to help.
   He told my heart is in good shape, but since the pvcs are benign he would not prescribe life threatening drugs for this condition, which i would not take anyway, but the pvcs are very intolerable and alarming when they occur with such frequency.
  Do you the the pvcs will deterioate in to a more serious arrythmia?
   I asked him about ablation, but says he doen't recommend it for benign pvcs.
    I have had this condition for years off and on and has lasted for months at a time, but always clear up and return,each time symptoms are more severe and intolerable, they do seem to
subside at night when my stomach is completly empty.
   Do you think i should try ablation, and do you think the atenolol could actually cause a worsning of the problem, because
i notice a increase in them after i take my medication.
  Thanks for your time and providing agreat service.
    Hank.

[RST2023]

For two years ago I was diagnosed with AF. I was put on Rythmol (propafenone) but continued to have about 3 episodes a week. I finally underwent ablation. Abations were done on three of the pulmonary veins and I was told that repeated applications of adrenaline could not induce AF. The procedure was considered successful. The next day I was in sinus rhythm all day, but the day after that I started experiencing more and more frequent PACs which eventually turned into AF. It has now been three weeks since the ablation and 90% of the time I am experiencing bigimeny which is very unpleasant. Once an ekg documented that I had returned to AF.
Overall, I feel worse since the procedure. Before I was in AFib about 15% of the time and the rest of the time in very, very regular sinus rhythm at 60 BPS. Since the procedure my blood pressure has been as low as 92/62. I feel bad (a little lightheaded and headachy with tickling and light thumbing in my chest).
Has anyone who has undergone ablation therapy for AF experienced these symptoms? I would love to believe that they are a short-term result of the procedure which will disappear with time.

[PVCMAN]

I am 35 and have had the occasional (1 a week) PVC for my entire life.  These were no problem and "normal" according to the Medical Community.  However, over the last two weeks my PVCs have increased to about a dozen per hour.  My BP is 118/76 and I am in good shape.  My doctor was surprised and figures that the PVCs are a result of a cold, or some external cause.  I can go hours without a single PVC and then get several per min.  They suck and scare the hell out of me.  I am healthy and should not be having these.  I can only hope they do not increase as they are manageable at this point.  I feel for those of you we are having constant PVCs.  This would drive me crazy.

I have complied a list of some remedies (have not tried these yet) that have helped others with their PVC's.  I am not a Doctor and I am NOT recommending any of these as treatment.

Chamomile Tea, Fish, Vitamins, Magnesium, Potassium

Again, I am not a Doctor and I am NOT recommending any of the above as treatment.

I wish us all well because PVCs really suck.  I only hope the medical community can find a cure.  But since they are not considered life threatening I doubt we will see any cure for a long time.

Good luck to everyone and keep this forum going!!!!!

[Abbiegaile]

Yes, I agree.  I just called the Doctors Office and left a message explaining everything to them and now I'm wait for a call back.. I honestly dont think he should have let me out of the hospital with me having this much pain.. I think he should have kept me in till he could resolve it.. but who am I? lol Well, hopefully I will hear from them soon..  I'm pretty worried and anxious to get back to my regular schedule..

[arthur]

The pain in my case was in the center of my chest...it just didn't last very long.  Sorry to hear yours is so persistent.  The symptoms of pain are very important and your doc should follow-up with more than pills.

[Abbiegaile]

My pain isn't at the catheter sight.  I have my pain in the middle of my chest and over to the left some and I can't even lay on my left side because it hurts so bad....  I have Darvocet and Xanex they are giving me for pain and unless I'm on those I'm in alot of pain.  I go see him Thursday and I can't wait...  Surely there is something he can do to make the pain go away.  I've done alot of research and no one else has said they have had chest pains after having the procedure.  But surely I can't be the only one that has ever had the pain there.  Please let me know if anyone else has or any info would be great.  Thanks

[arthur]

I had an ablation done for a PAF condition.  The procedure was similar to yours...two catheters up the groin and one under the collar bone on the right.  Although the groin catheters were psychologically disturbing, they really did not presnt with any great amount of pain.  The collar bone catheter did produce some unusual sensations: (1) I could hear the catheter moving around and (2) felt a sharp pain in the heart (I believe this was the catheter point making its way through the heart membrane separating atrium from right). This is a normal part of the procedure as the EP needs to access the left side of the heart. In my case, the pain dissipated quickly.

Ask your doctor if the collar bone cath procedure was designed to do what I am guessing at, and if the temporary cut (which is supposed to heal on its own) can result in an extended level of pain.

[Abbiegaile]

I have been searching all over the web for a forum that I can ask questions to and get some answers..  Finally I found one :)  

Well, I'm a 24 year old female who has had PSVT since 13 years old and was just recently diagnoised with it.  It took them like 10 years just to catch my episodes on a holter monitor.  After I got diagnoised with it I had to wait to start the Beta Blockers due to being pregnant at the time but after the birth of my 2nd child I started on Tenormin then they switched me due to it making me way to tired and weak to Verapamil then to Lopresor and they all made me so tired and weak I could hardly function and when you have a 3 year old and new baby it was very hard to function during the day with the medications.  My doctor then decided to put me on Lanoxin and they took blood alot to check my levels and they remained low so the ended up putting me on it on a rotation bases.. Mon,Wed,Fri 3 pills a day and other days 2 pills a day.  I finally got refered to a Electrophysiologist that suggested since the Lanoxin wasn't really doing much to get off of it and he scheduled me for Catheter Ablation Procedure.. I just had the procedure done on the 5th of Dec of this year (2001) and I went home the next day with 3 catheter sights that they went in with.  I felt everything throughout the whole procedure even when they were inserting and taking out the catheters.  When the procedure was done they removed the 2 catheters in my Groin area and I felt that and then they removed the one up under my collar bone.. Now when they removed that one I immediately had a sharp stabbing pain in the center of my chest and a little to the left and up some.. It was constant and I started crying and grabed the nurses hand and sqeezed it and started begging him for something for the pain.  They proceeded to take me to a room in the Cardiac Care Unit and I still had the pain so bad that my husband's hand was hurting also from me sqeezing it. Lol But my doctor did a chest Xray of me they didn't find anything and since then I am at home and I'm still having the pain.  It's not as constant as it was when I first got out of the surgery but it's very intense and it's still there.  On a scale of one to ten it's about a 9 when it starts hurting which is at least a few times an hour...  Please someone tell me if this is normal for recovery from this procedure..  I want to go up to the hospital but they did an Xray already and it turned out fine and I dont want to go up there just to be released and go back home again..  Any input on this would be great.. I have a follow up with my doctor on the 13th of Dec.. Next Thursday and I am wondering if I should call him sooner.. Anything is appreciated!!  Thanks for your time and I'm sorry if I bored anyone.
Sincerly,
Abbie

[wilson-wilson]

Hankstar said:

"I know a friend of mine walking around with 15-20 PVCs a minute and is not aware of even one, this is what really has me puzzled.
Why do some people feel every one and others don't, this is what baffles me."

-----------

Since I've learned the difference in "the feeling" 'tween PACs and PVCs (PACs having a "lighter {blip} feel" and PVCs having a "heavier, rolling feel"). I cannot understand how one can have their heart "feel" like it is ROLLING [or pitching and yawing like a ship in The Perfect Storm] in one's chest and NOT "feel" it either?!!


wilson-wilson

[LORIANDTOM]

Hi.  I have them all the time.  My last holter monitor registered 15,000 in a 24 hour period.  I am not sure but I believe ablation isn't an option because the pvc's aren't coming from one direct location.  I am not exactly sure, but I believe that is the case.

I have some days when they are not totally constant but I would say most of the time they are.  I am trying to deal with them and not totally flip out and function....I am getting better at it, but it really is affecting my life at this point.

Eating seems to get them going and I have lost weight that I did not need to from it and if one more person tells me that i can't possibly feel bad because I look like the picture of health I will strangle them.  I guess the hardest thing about it is having no definitive answers on what is causing them.  I have been to two GP's and two Cardiologists and they all have something different to say or ways to medicate so it leaves me with little faith, yet I need the faith to believe that the pvc's are benign and that I will be ok.

One cardio wanted to put me on anti-arrthymatic drugs which I think (after reading a bit) would of been a really bad decision so what other options are there?  The other cardio has said he has had great luck with the calcium blockers when the beta blockers aren't tolerated.  I'm so darned confused I don't know what to do, I just know that feeling this way isn't good!

Thanks for letting me vent!

Lori

[LORIANDTOM]

Hi.  I tried beta blockers for my pvc's unsuccessfully- they all made me very tired, breathless, and slowed the heart rate way down and really didn't stop the pvc's.  My cardiologist is now suggesting a calcium channel blocker.  Will this have the same affect on my system as the beta blockers?  Cardizem is the one my Doc would like to try.  Any info would be most helpful as I am beginning to dread any new meds for this condition, but I have thousands of PVC's daily and would like some relief.

Thanks

Lori

[Carly]

Blu, I'm wondering what side effects of Betapace you were worried about.  I have been taking it for three years and I have done very well.

[NancyA]

I just saw part of a CBS Healthwatch clip on TV today.  It mentioned that there is ongoing research, linking arrhythmias and air pollution!  Couldn't find anything directly quoting this on their web site, but there were a couple of articles about heart attacks and smog.  Does anyone know about PVC's and air pollution?  I live in a smoggy area of California, so this is particularly interesting to me.

[jarbo]

Part of your success or lack therof with homeopathy in the past may have to do with the fact that there are certain substances that tend to counteract homeopathic remedies. These include coffee (which you shouldn't be drinking if you have palps anyway cause of the caffeine - but don't substitute decaf because as far as homeopathy goes, it's not the caffeine that counteracts remedies but the coffee itself ), mint (in almost all toothpaste), and camphor and menthol (found in Vick's Vaporub, Listerine, Chapstick and some coughdrops.)  You should avoid these when taking remedies.   You also shouldn't eat for about 1/2 hour before or after taking a remedy. If you didn't know this stuff, the remedy you were taking, even if it was the right one, might not have stood a chance of working.   John

[NancyA]

Thanks jarbo (or is it John?) for your comments.  I don't know if there's a homeopath in my area (central CA) but I'm not too far from Los Angeles. I've used homeopathic remedies from health food stores for other conditions.  Some work and some don't.  There's a doctor I see for accupuncture, maybe he know where to find a homeopath in my town.

[jarbo]

Hi Nancy- Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. The thing about homeopathy is that it's very closely tailored to one's individual set of symptoms. For instance, one of my books on homeopathy (I got pretty interested in it after my success with it) lists 36 different remedies for palpitations with varying symptom descriptions. One says "Violent palpitations with vertigo, headache, and restlessness", another says ""From the slightest movement", another,"During the night, lying on the left side and at about 4a.m.". So it really has to do with your exact set of symptoms - not just the palpitations, but other physical symptoms and also mental symptoms. There are several thousand different remedies and maybe hundreds that have to do with palpitations as a primary or secondary complaint.When I first was being treated we went through about 6-8 consecutive different remedies over a period of about 9 months as my "symptom description" would change.  
So you really need to get with a homeopath who can narrow things down. Sometimes you'll see "shotgun" remedy mixtures in a drugstore or health food store for things like colds or coughs. These are mixtures of several remedies that are most commonly used for these conditions. "Classical" homeopaths (like the guy I went to) frown on these because they feel that this confuses the body and that remedies should be given 1 at a time. The rationale for this is that the more closely the remedy fits your exact symptoms, the more successful the treatment will be.
  If you can't find a homeopath in your area, (I'm near NYC), I'm sure an internet search would turn up some resources. I'd also recommend getting familiar with homeopathy - there are a lot of good books on it , especially by Dana Ullman and George Vithoulkas. A lot of this will sound like voodoo to regular MD's (but mostly in the US - in Europe, esp. England, France, and Germany, there are many MD's who also practice homeopathy)  but in recent years there have been a number of placebo controlled double-blind studies that have proved (in the words of one somewhat incredulous researcher) "either homeopathy works or placebo controlled double-blind studies don't". I know I sound like a cheerleader for this but I know how frustrating dealing with palps can be and I did well with homeopathy.   John

[jarbo]

I haven't posted here for almost two years, I did initially when I (happily) came across this forum when I had a bout of palpitations about 4 years ago. Had all the tests - everything was fine and I was told (like so many others here) that it was benign and that there was nothing to be done, just to try to ignore them. As you all know, this is tough. Being into "alternative" health stuff I went to see a homeopath and am happy to report that the palpitations went away. There were indisputable correlations between the remedies I was taking and the way my heart was behaving. They resurfaced a couple of months ago (maybe 200-300/day) and I went back to the homeopath who  prescribed a remedy and predicted that they would go away within 4-7 days. This is exactly what happened. Not to denigrate the good doctors at the Cleveland Clinic nor this very supportive forum, but since "regular" medicine has little to offer for this condition, I just wanted to report my experience.  John

[NancyA]

Hi jarbo,

PLEASE share with us the homeopathic formula you took!!!!!!!

There are many of us (me included) that use both conventional medical and alternative remedies.  There were several posts about vitamins, Maalox (acid reflux), accupuncture and other treatments that helped PVCs.

[NBCT]

A quick thought on why the irregular beats are increased ON the beta blockers. I have been told that PVC's don't "fire" as often if the heart rate is increased. That is why most cardios say to exercise and "they will go away" which I found true, however they are stronger then ever after exercise when the heartrate slows again. That slowing caused by the betablocker itself maybe whats causing your heart to be irritable. Please be careful stopping the medicine all together! The dosage should be tapered down, check with your cardio. Good Luck Again!

[NBCT]

I have heard many references to the start of palpitations and hormonal changes, especially in  premenopausal women. Even the nurse on the telephone who recorded one of my event monitors, had been dealing with frequent PVC's with no underlying cardiac condition. She was told hormonal changes were to blame. There is a book called Screaming  To  Be Heard, Hormonal  Changes Women Suspect and Doctors Ignore (obviously an angry author!!) by, I think a Dr. Viel, something like that. I hope that will help. Maybe your gynecologist can give information on the subject.
As you know, and many others understand the word "benign" is still not comforting when the feelings are so distressing. Good Luck!

[ariz4me]

I have been reading all the comments posted for irregular heart beats and I needed to ask a question about my own situation.  I have been experiencing what I called palpitations for well over 7 years.  I am a 44 year old female who has undergone 2 thalium stress tests, 1 echocardiogram, many EKGs and several halter monitors.  Each time I have had these tests, my doctor tells me that my heart is in great shape and not to worry about these palpitations.  When I had the echocardiogram performed 5 years ago, the cardiologist at the time told me everything was fine.  He said that irregular beats can be caused by hormones especially around the time of menstruation.  I am also taking effexor and was told that this type of drug also can cause irregular beats.  Nevertheless, when I feel that skipping, fluttering sensation that is followed up by rapid beats, it scares me to death.  When I talk to my internist about this, all he does is refer to the tests that show my heart is functioning normally.  My question is: Has anyone out their docs tell them that hormone fluctuations and effexor can cause this?  Also, is this condition really benign or does it lead to more serious problems? Thanks for any help.

[CodeBlueNJ]

As a health care practitioner, having PAC's myself, I can only say that they are annoying, and not a day goes by that I wonder when it will convert to A-Fib or something worse.  The problem is, to my knowledge there is still very limited studies as to the cause, and the path that these "benign" arrythmias take.  I am going to re-post this as a question to the docs.  In any case, the only thing you can do is try to ignore them.  If you can't, take pride in the fact that the thumps and bumps and flip-flops we feel actually are signs that the heart muscle itself is healthy and pumping away, although just to the beat of a different drummer.  The fact that we are all typing away and reading this forum is proof enough that indeed, we will all live to see another day.  Good luck!
Gary Latimer, RN, LNHA

[arthur]

I am dealing with skips occurring from 2-6/min each and every day since my ablation for PAF (one year ago).  I have taken toprol (beta blocker) and found that it controlled only my occassional high bp ... no effect on skips.  I have taken tambocor and found that at 200mg/day the skips were cut down by half.  Both drugs caused me to lose my edge in competitive sports, so now I take no drugs.

At times, I feel like you do, and really start considering another ablation.  Such an ablation is expected to be relatively simple, since you only need active skips to pick off the foci (unlike the required induction of a full-fledged AF incident).
At other times, I seem to have the willpower to ignore the skips and simply cannot comment on whether they are still there.  It's almost paradoxical.

Like you, I expect that someday I'll say that's enough.  I'm just holding out for a while longer to let technology and time reduce the risks of ablation.

[NBCT]

Your heart may begin to race after meals and when standing due to a drop in your blood pressure(it may be from the beta blocker)
Ask your MD to take your BP and Pulse lying and then standing to see if there is a significant change.
Good luck with your decision to consider an ablation for your PVC's. Suffering daily with them is no picnic, but as you can see from starting this thread you are NOT ALONE and there are people who are willing to help. Take Care and Best Wishes.

[jan]

Hi Hankstar,
Eating doesn't effect mine, but definitely rising from a sitting or lying position. I for one will stay on the atenolol, but like I said my PVC's are not bad, not bad at all. Also, my 1st cardio said I needed to take it because of the tachycardia, which most of the time isn't bothersome. I do hate when it gets me short of breath, though. Also, I have to take it for the syncope, so... I, however, don't like being on the beta blocker and calcium channel blocker, but the dr. here and my cardio(s) do not seem to think it is a problem. I am on a very low dose of each!