Aa
MS, post-viral syndrome, or something else?
My situation:
Aug 2003: Had a 3-day episode where I was quite fatigued w/ intense urinary urgency/hesitation at the same time. Saw GP, all labs clear.
Dec 2003/Jan 2004: Got sick twice in two months, URI and then flu w/ GI symptoms.
Feb 2004: Began experiencing extreme bilateral leg weakness and fatigue. Shortly, additional symptoms appeared, such as leg/foot parathesias, urinary urgency, near-constant facial numbness, eye pain directly behind the eyeball, and slurred/scanning speech.
GP took a gallon of blood, everything WNL, referred me to neurologist.
Clinical exam negative but neuro sent me to MRI for suspected demylinating disorder. MRI of brain/spine done with and w/o contrast was normal. EMG/nerve conduction studies were normal. Neuro diagnosed me with atypical post-viral syndrome and then abruptly concluded the appointment. My questions:
1. The neurologist states that if the MRI is negative, doing evoked potentials is completely unnecessary. What is your opinion given what I have described?
2. The neuro blew off the urinary symptoms from last summer- are those not valid neurological signs? (I'm concerned those were a first episode of MS).
3. Would CSF provide any valuable information in discriminating between a post-viral syndrome and MS? Is there a time limit on when this should be done?
4. I am not experiencing a steady improvement; many symptoms have worsened recently. Is this consistent with a post-viral syndrome?
5. What else can be done to confirm the Dx and rule-out MS?
Thanks so much!
Aug 2003: Had a 3-day episode where I was quite fatigued w/ intense urinary urgency/hesitation at the same time. Saw GP, all labs clear.
Dec 2003/Jan 2004: Got sick twice in two months, URI and then flu w/ GI symptoms.
Feb 2004: Began experiencing extreme bilateral leg weakness and fatigue. Shortly, additional symptoms appeared, such as leg/foot parathesias, urinary urgency, near-constant facial numbness, eye pain directly behind the eyeball, and slurred/scanning speech.
GP took a gallon of blood, everything WNL, referred me to neurologist.
Clinical exam negative but neuro sent me to MRI for suspected demylinating disorder. MRI of brain/spine done with and w/o contrast was normal. EMG/nerve conduction studies were normal. Neuro diagnosed me with atypical post-viral syndrome and then abruptly concluded the appointment. My questions:
1. The neurologist states that if the MRI is negative, doing evoked potentials is completely unnecessary. What is your opinion given what I have described?
2. The neuro blew off the urinary symptoms from last summer- are those not valid neurological signs? (I'm concerned those were a first episode of MS).
3. Would CSF provide any valuable information in discriminating between a post-viral syndrome and MS? Is there a time limit on when this should be done?
4. I am not experiencing a steady improvement; many symptoms have worsened recently. Is this consistent with a post-viral syndrome?
5. What else can be done to confirm the Dx and rule-out MS?
Thanks so much!
A related discussion, post viral syndrome was started.
Let me know if you want more information on heavy metal poisoning signs and symptoms. I will look up and provide you with the good websites that I have been too so that you can access the information too.
I suggest that you get tested for heavy metal poisoning/toxicity. The symptoms you describe are very much like the ones for arsenic poisoning. You will find many of the same symptoms for mercury poisoning and other heavy metals.
I have many of the problems you described and they are the direct result of heavy metal poisoning. Arsenic (As), Cobalt (Co), Mercury (Hg) and Uranium (U) top the list.
Until the results came back I was told many things as being the cause of my problems.
Flu like sickness with severe vomiting and dehydration is one of the first indicators for poisoning. Along with this goes loss of appetite and sudden extreme weight loss.
Are the stabbing pains in your back off too the sides and in the rite front just under the ribs? Toxins in the body are removed by the kidneys (back off too the sides) and liver (rite front just under the ribs). Therefore they suffer a lot of the damage. In the event of exposure or poisoning you may suffer what feels like severe back pain or spasms. The doctors told me this is really caused by the kidneys and liver taken a beating from the arsenic.
How does the internal vibrating make you feel? This is actually very fine tremors.
I understand that there are a number of causes for tremors. It could be Parkinson
I have many of the problems you described and they are the direct result of heavy metal poisoning. Arsenic (As), Cobalt (Co), Mercury (Hg) and Uranium (U) top the list.
Until the results came back I was told many things as being the cause of my problems.
Flu like sickness with severe vomiting and dehydration is one of the first indicators for poisoning. Along with this goes loss of appetite and sudden extreme weight loss.
Are the stabbing pains in your back off too the sides and in the rite front just under the ribs? Toxins in the body are removed by the kidneys (back off too the sides) and liver (rite front just under the ribs). Therefore they suffer a lot of the damage. In the event of exposure or poisoning you may suffer what feels like severe back pain or spasms. The doctors told me this is really caused by the kidneys and liver taken a beating from the arsenic.
How does the internal vibrating make you feel? This is actually very fine tremors.
I understand that there are a number of causes for tremors. It could be Parkinson
You may also want too look into metal poisoning as the cause of your problems.
It seems that doctors fail too consider this as the cause of the problems because the symptoms appear to be the result of many diseases. However, as I noted in my post to Kristine research is now showing metal poisoning to be the cause of a number of diseases such as Parkinson's and MS.
It seems that doctors fail too consider this as the cause of the problems because the symptoms appear to be the result of many diseases. However, as I noted in my post to Kristine research is now showing metal poisoning to be the cause of a number of diseases such as Parkinson's and MS.
Hi,
I'm not a doctor, but my own personal experience (8 months of sx similar to yours and tons of tests for stuff like MS before they figured it out) would lead me to advise both of you to get checked for mercury poisoning. Esp. Kristine - your sx are textbook mercury (Hg) intoxication.
Both blood and urine should be checked. Other tests (stool, saliva, hair etc) are available too but blood and urine have reference values that are fairly well-accepted, so you'll be able to tell what the results really mean. (Careful - there are a lot of quacks out there, so get this done at a teaching hospital if possible. OSHA-type agencies might do it because people get poisoned on the job.) My blood Hg turned out to be about 15 times normal - but since Hg leaves the blood way before it stops doing damage (or even before it starts) get the urine checked too - they pick up excess Hg longer in the urine.
If you have risk factors (work in a dentist's office, live in a former dentist's office, work in a factory with mercury; lots of fillings, heavy fish-eater, broke a thermometer once, etc) this is really something you should check. The Docs never test for it. (Take my word for it - I had to ask for the test myself, on a hunch, after months of other, far more expensive tests - it's just not on their radar.)
If it's mercury, you're by no means out of the woods yet - but at least you'll know the enemy. I was labelled a twitching, insomniac, psychosomatic for a while too.
Take care
Dave
I'm not a doctor, but my own personal experience (8 months of sx similar to yours and tons of tests for stuff like MS before they figured it out) would lead me to advise both of you to get checked for mercury poisoning. Esp. Kristine - your sx are textbook mercury (Hg) intoxication.
Both blood and urine should be checked. Other tests (stool, saliva, hair etc) are available too but blood and urine have reference values that are fairly well-accepted, so you'll be able to tell what the results really mean. (Careful - there are a lot of quacks out there, so get this done at a teaching hospital if possible. OSHA-type agencies might do it because people get poisoned on the job.) My blood Hg turned out to be about 15 times normal - but since Hg leaves the blood way before it stops doing damage (or even before it starts) get the urine checked too - they pick up excess Hg longer in the urine.
If you have risk factors (work in a dentist's office, live in a former dentist's office, work in a factory with mercury; lots of fillings, heavy fish-eater, broke a thermometer once, etc) this is really something you should check. The Docs never test for it. (Take my word for it - I had to ask for the test myself, on a hunch, after months of other, far more expensive tests - it's just not on their radar.)
If it's mercury, you're by no means out of the woods yet - but at least you'll know the enemy. I was labelled a twitching, insomniac, psychosomatic for a while too.
Take care
Dave
Thanks so much for your response. Am I correct, then, in assuming that a CSF would allow for a differential diagnosis between results typical for MS, Lyme Disease, and post-viral inflammation?
Hi. I am a 28 year old female and I'm new to the forum but I wanted to comment that after a viral infection, I have also been suffering MS like symptoms. I was sick with the stomach flu last Oct. and 3 days later, my body was hit with muscle twitching/spasms, muscle weakness and stiffness(mainly legs), tremors, this internal vibration feeling, pins and needles sensation, joint pains (mostly hips). This lasted for about 6 weeks, and then remitted and I started to think I was okay only for them to return last January and much more pronounced. I have new symptoms along with my old ones, mainly intention tremors in my hands, stabbing pains, dizziness, jaw quivering,chills and some cognative difficulties. My internist thought at first maybe a post-viral infection, but the fact my symptoms relapsed and remitted, I don't fit the criteria as a virus would just run its course and not return. I've had a normal MRI w/contrast and nerve conduction test and blood work (thyroid, CBC, sed-rate, B12, Lyme, Diabetes) and now I am being told I am only "stressed." I would like to know if MS attacks are acute attacks like the 2 that I have experienced and does MS develop after a viral infection, is that a possible trigger? Can you have MS without fatigue? I have the same energy level, or stamina, but since my muscles are weak I tire easily or I guess I just ache as if I really over exerted myself, is this fatigue? I guess I don't understand how fatigue is supossed to manifest itself. I would like to talk to someone who is willing to share their experience and offer some advice. Thank you.
Kristine
Kristine
Regarding your questions:
1) If the MRI was negative this excluded most lesions. However the MRI is a test of structure and not function. An evoked potential may show a problem with the function, even though there is not a structural problem. What this will mean in the context of your illness I can not tell you.
2) It is difficult for me to comment on the urinary symptoms. I would need to talk to you and investigate that further.
3) The changes seen in MS and after a viral illness should be different. There are characteristic changes in the CSF for MS. The CSF alone would not make a diagnosis of MS. You have to have a history and examination consistent with one.
4) If your symptoms are persisting or progressing you should discuss this with your doctor. If you are concerned perhaps a second opinion would be reasonable.
5) Having a second opinion with a MS specialist may be reasonable if you are concerned.
1) If the MRI was negative this excluded most lesions. However the MRI is a test of structure and not function. An evoked potential may show a problem with the function, even though there is not a structural problem. What this will mean in the context of your illness I can not tell you.
2) It is difficult for me to comment on the urinary symptoms. I would need to talk to you and investigate that further.
3) The changes seen in MS and after a viral illness should be different. There are characteristic changes in the CSF for MS. The CSF alone would not make a diagnosis of MS. You have to have a history and examination consistent with one.
4) If your symptoms are persisting or progressing you should discuss this with your doctor. If you are concerned perhaps a second opinion would be reasonable.
5) Having a second opinion with a MS specialist may be reasonable if you are concerned.
Treatment varies from patient to patient. The longer you've been ill, the longer the bacteria has had to invade and do its damage.
From what I understand, bacteria form into these cysts and hide in tissue and mask themselves rendering them sort of "stealth" like, making it difficult
High doses of anti bacterial meds are given and diet and lifestyle change is mandated.
There are Lyme support groups on the web, just google LymeNet and see what pops up, I think if nothing else, you'll find some folks who are in the same quagmire you're finding yourself in.
Oh, btw, you don't need to be outside any longer than it takes a tick to bite you.
And from what I've been told, the idea of Lyme being transmitted by other means, isn't out of the question. They're finding that it isn't just in the East either. Check out a Lyme board....I don't know enough t about it to do it justice.
Have you ever been told that MS could possibly be bacterial related?
Science? Don't ya just love it? Good luck,
dk
From what I understand, bacteria form into these cysts and hide in tissue and mask themselves rendering them sort of "stealth" like, making it difficult
High doses of anti bacterial meds are given and diet and lifestyle change is mandated.
There are Lyme support groups on the web, just google LymeNet and see what pops up, I think if nothing else, you'll find some folks who are in the same quagmire you're finding yourself in.
Oh, btw, you don't need to be outside any longer than it takes a tick to bite you.
And from what I've been told, the idea of Lyme being transmitted by other means, isn't out of the question. They're finding that it isn't just in the East either. Check out a Lyme board....I don't know enough t about it to do it justice.
Have you ever been told that MS could possibly be bacterial related?
Science? Don't ya just love it? Good luck,
dk
I know several people who've tested positive for Lyme.
My understanding is that only through the Elisa and Bowens test can you truly find the correct "bands."
Your symptoms sound exactly like theirs and a couple of them were sick for years before they were dx'd.
The circumstance I came to know these folks, was through a website where most of us had symptoms that went undiagnosed or even heard about by many of our doctors. Through trial and error doctor after doctor some of them begged their docs to give them a go at the Elisa and/or Bowen tests.
Anyway, there it is...just a thought.
My understanding is that only through the Elisa and Bowens test can you truly find the correct "bands."
Your symptoms sound exactly like theirs and a couple of them were sick for years before they were dx'd.
The circumstance I came to know these folks, was through a website where most of us had symptoms that went undiagnosed or even heard about by many of our doctors. Through trial and error doctor after doctor some of them begged their docs to give them a go at the Elisa and/or Bowen tests.
Anyway, there it is...just a thought.
I'm certainly open to anything as my symptoms have been puzzling. I doubt I have this as I have no Hx of exposure to ticks and frankly, haven't been outside much at all in the time period we are speaking of...but, all the same, what is the treatment for Lyme disease?
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