catechlomines causing pvcs

[da75]

a doctor on here answered someone once that "most pvc's are caused by catechlomines" Ive never seen a doctor be so forward about that before but I found it interesting.. ok, so if thats the case, and catechlomines are a byproduct of the release and breakdown of adrenaline from the adrenal glands.. that would seem to say that beta blockers might work for those people. Beta Blockers acting to block the receptor sites for adrenaline on the heart etc.

But heres the thing.. if Beta Blockers dont work, and if some people are helped by xanax which causes them to be less anxious (less adrenaline therefore), is there any drugs out there that actually block the production or release of adrenaline/catechlomines at the source?  Seems like if there was maybe this would be an alternate option?

Also, arent beta-blockers not true anti-arrythmics? They basically just block adrenaline right? So why would they cause ectopic beats to actually be worse in some people?

This is just a discussion point, I dont claim to know what Im talking about. Hoping somebody else might be able to expand on this and offer some insight.

[Fran71]

Hi all,
I'm back after a few months and I see there are lots of folks I used to meet still onboard...!
This is a wonderful thread with lots of interesting questions.
Tickertock, hi! I think your explanation is very good. I'm trying to figure out where I stand in your description. I usually get PVCs with sinus tachycardia, so I guess they are related. My PVCs are probably catecolamine-driven, and the beta blocker works wonders for me almost every time, by suppressing, not just weakening, PVCs. But when I exercise, and my HR goes up a lot, my PVCs disappear, after about 10 minutes of exercise. When I stop and my heart slows down, they immediately overwhelm me more fierceful than ever...

I guess the cardiologists themselves are puzzled about PVCs. Thank God they're harmless...

Have a great weekend, everyone!

Fran

[Barbarella]

Sometimes PVC's are caused by to much adrenaline and sometimes not.  I got them before when I felt totally calm. I also got them when I was upset, in suspense, or when having anxiety, but not always.  I got them after a meal before for weeks, right now I do not get them after a meal.

Caffeine does not effect me at all when it comes to PVC's.

Cardiologists can't even answer what the "real" cause of these PVC's are.

[da75]

Interesting.

DOLFLVR.. I have heard the aspartame thing also, tho I did not know that L-Tyrosine was the real culprit. Makes me curious what else is high tyrosine.

To play devils advocate with the beta-blocker causing a slower heart rate and thus causing the longer pause to allow more awareness of  pvc/pac's ---  i noticed personally that atenolol worsened my ectopic beats.. however when I take much xanax (which is a tranquilizer basically) i do not get this effect. Nor when I am about to sleep. In my case the beta blocker did not reduce my heart rate significantly when I measured my pulse before and after.  I say this as more of just discussion, Im not saying Im right and youre wrong, just that in my case at least and maybe others, its not a matter of slower pulse = more pvc's become noticed.

ARTHUR -- if nitric oxide, and cannabinoids(pot?) cause an inhibition to adrenaline release, I would suggest to you that maybe supplementing with nitric oxide's precursor, the cheap supplement L-Arginine would be a decent way to test this?
Its funny you mentioned the Nitric Oxide tho, I think everyone that hasnt seen this link should look at this article thoroughly..
http://george-eby-research.com/html/taurine-l-arginine-arrhythmias.html

any more feedback on this thread would be most appreciated.
  

[wmac]

Meant to say cardio finallly said betas arent for me after five years.

[wmac]

Very interesting to me! I am one of those people who have more problems with rest and relaxing with my nsvt and pvcs. In the begining my cardio said that thte beta blockers can sometimes make things worse so I avoided them for two years, finally I couldnt cope anymore and got the lowest dose of toprol xl 25mg I think it was. Beings that im such a light weight I took 1/4 of a pill the first two days and the third day I took 1/2 and six hours on the dot I had the worse run of nonsustained vt. I so happened had a loop recorder implanted so it got recorded. So the moral to the story is I agree that in some people with slowing the heart rate makes it worse. I also stay away from sugar free stuff as well and msg. I agree with dolf about it takes longer for the heart to catch up on betas and I think thats why I had my worse run ever on the betas becasue I always have problems at rest and I was resting at the time and with being on the betas it took my heart longer to catch up and thats why my run of nsvt was longer than normal. I did mention my theroy to my cardio and she said that was possible. Just my thoughts on it. So I take nothing and my cardio finally said that betas arent for me after three years.
I also read from one cardio on the forum he said that if your one of the people that have problems at rest then betas arent for you and if your one of the people who have problems when your heart is at a faster rate then betas are for you.

[dolfnlvr]

Interesting thoughts, but there is a flaw in the plan.   Catecholamines include epinephrine, norepinephrine and dopamine.  These are important neurotransmitters and are therefore necessary to proper brain/nervous system function.  If you were to neutralize these chemicals you would cause problems MUCH WORSE than PVC's.

One thing of note to us all, however, is that a major metabolite (chemical created by the breakdown of...) of the alternative sweetener APARTAME is an amino acid called L-Tyrosine. L-Tyrosine is a raw material of adrenaline, noradrenaline AND dopamine.  In other words, the resulting chemicals in your body after digesting ASPARTAME can effectively INCREASE your catecholamine levels thereby inducing arhythmias.

Finally...in terms of the beta blocker "causing ectopic beats..."  The most common falicy here is that the ectopic beats are "new."  Very often, the slowing of the heart rate due to beta blocker usage causes the compensatory pause of a PVC/PAC to be more NOTICEABLE and therefore increases the amount of PVC/PAC's FELT not necessarily experienced.  When your heart experiences a premature beat, it pauses to "catch up with itself."  This pause results in a large amount of blood filling the chambers of the heart and this causes the follow-up beat to be especially forceful.  If your heart is beating more slowly than usual (as caused by a beta blocker) then the amount of time in the "pause" will be exaggerated.  For this reason, the "rebounding" beat will be exceptionally forceful and therefore more noticeable to the person experiencing the symptoms.

Again...I am not a doctor, and this is NOT definitive information.  I have a degree in biology and checked into some of this in one of my recent chem/bio text books.  So, you did me a favor today and caused me to exercise my bio brain.  Thanks!!!!

Have a great weekend all!!!!

[arthur]

Beta blockers also cause the heart to slow down...which opens the heart up to non-adrenergically driven arrhythmias, in particular, if they were present before but had gone unnoticed.  The result would be what looks like a beta-blocker causing an arrhythmia.  Cannabinoids, nitric oxide, and some wrinkle meds are known to inhibit the release of adrenaline...in my opinion, this is a dangerous effect, as adrenaline is a necessary hormone, and is released from a variety of organs in the body for a variety of good reasons.

-Arthur

[tickertock]

Depends of what causes the ectopic foci in the ventricle to fire, some pvcs are suppressed with increase in heartrate for these persons beta blockers probably aggravates pvcs or makes it worse, for persons whose pvcs are catechlomines/adrenalin driven beta blockers can suppress them,  then they are those that the pvcs fire regardless.This is my understanding only , I could be completely wrong.

[Barbmag]

Gosh, these are such excellent questions and I wish someone would have answers!! Please, someone!!