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Watson 540 for 3yrs 360pills a month help
My doc closed left all patients abanded I have been buying them staying broke n fighting with the wife I tried another dr no help so I am ready to get my life back I have an apt the 17th for Suboxone I am having to buy tabs to make it till then I can't do without to scared I have done alot of drugs but I would have to say hydrocodone also oxycodone r the hardest to quit I would like any advice I can get my marriage is falling apart n I am ready to quit sence I lost my dr it's an expensive habit pls help thanks I have looked all over n I am very ashamed I haven't seen no one took 360 a month for 3yrs 12 to 15 pills a day pls help me!!!!!!
Right, i should have posted these. You should read the TIP Dave, it will help you understand everything much better, and help you understand what they tell you at your meeting. I've seen this posted at this site before, so i hope it's still ok.
cows: http://www.naabt.org/documents/NAABT_PrecipWD.pdf
TIP (treatment improvement protocol) http://www.naabt.org/links/TIP_40_PDF.pdf
cows: http://www.naabt.org/documents/NAABT_PrecipWD.pdf
TIP (treatment improvement protocol) http://www.naabt.org/links/TIP_40_PDF.pdf
Actually there is. What happens with PW's, is that the Buprenorphine kicks all the opiates off the receptors, but there isn't enough left to occupy them as well, so the action is incomplete. You take another dose of the sub.
Some docs just prescribe the max to avoid this and send the patient home. That's not the best way to start subs however. You want to take the least amount as possible to stabilize and maintain. It makes the total taper time shorter as well. Most of the Docs at the clinics are pretty good at assessing the start dose. It's private practice docs that usually either don't understand how the program is supposed to work, or they don't really give a damn, they'd rather process as many patients they can in a day, so they over prescribe and send them home. Some don't even tell a patient about stopping their drug of choice and waiting till they are well into withdrawals, and don't even tell their patient about any kind of taper program. Disgusting really.
Some docs just prescribe the max to avoid this and send the patient home. That's not the best way to start subs however. You want to take the least amount as possible to stabilize and maintain. It makes the total taper time shorter as well. Most of the Docs at the clinics are pretty good at assessing the start dose. It's private practice docs that usually either don't understand how the program is supposed to work, or they don't really give a damn, they'd rather process as many patients they can in a day, so they over prescribe and send them home. Some don't even tell a patient about stopping their drug of choice and waiting till they are well into withdrawals, and don't even tell their patient about any kind of taper program. Disgusting really.
You are also most likely going get a severe headache from suddenly stopping the acetaminophen. This will pass in a couple days or so. Some ibuprofen helps.
I used to do volunteer work at a detox clinic for years, and have seen every kind of person there can be with opiate addiction. Everyone is different, no matter what category they are in. But one thing they all have in common is that their success always depends on their motivation to stop using their drug of choice.
If you are highly motivated, then you will be successful. Good luck with your meeting, I hope it all works out for you. Knowing what to expect helps, so i hope I helped ease your anxiety a little. Every clinic is different, but they all do the basic assessment. whether they start you at the clinic or at home is the only difference. At some, out patient program councelling is mandatory, at others just highly recommended
I used to do volunteer work at a detox clinic for years, and have seen every kind of person there can be with opiate addiction. Everyone is different, no matter what category they are in. But one thing they all have in common is that their success always depends on their motivation to stop using their drug of choice.
If you are highly motivated, then you will be successful. Good luck with your meeting, I hope it all works out for you. Knowing what to expect helps, so i hope I helped ease your anxiety a little. Every clinic is different, but they all do the basic assessment. whether they start you at the clinic or at home is the only difference. At some, out patient program councelling is mandatory, at others just highly recommended
You've been give some excellent information from Free_ovitall. It is really important to be in the right place before you take any sub. A doctor that gives it to you to take at home without seeing where you're at in withdrawals, is not, in my opinion, a good doctor. Precipitated withdrawals, from what I've learned, are awful; much worse than any withdrawal you'll go through from your drug of choice. And there is no way to get out of precipitated withdrawals once you're in them (to my knowledge;) you just have to ride it out.
You could look up the COWS scale just so you have more information. Some people have thought they were in severe enough withdrawal to start the sub and then found out they weren't. That's why it's important for the doctor to give you the sub in his office so he really knows you're far enough into withdrawal for the sub to work and make sure you're not going into precipitated withdrawal.
Free_ovitall also gave a good description of using sub for physical dependence versus addiction. And, again, I think it's a good idea to learn as much about it as possible so you know exactly what you're getting into and it will help you make sure it's the right thing for you. I have a friend who had a pretty bad oxycodone problem. They had detoxed several times but always relapsed within a month. They recently detoxed and went on suboxone and it seems to be working really well for them. I think they'll be on it short-term, as that what the program protocol dictates. Though in truth, it seems like a longer-term sub program would have been a better choice.
You could look up the COWS scale just so you have more information. Some people have thought they were in severe enough withdrawal to start the sub and then found out they weren't. That's why it's important for the doctor to give you the sub in his office so he really knows you're far enough into withdrawal for the sub to work and make sure you're not going into precipitated withdrawal.
Free_ovitall also gave a good description of using sub for physical dependence versus addiction. And, again, I think it's a good idea to learn as much about it as possible so you know exactly what you're getting into and it will help you make sure it's the right thing for you. I have a friend who had a pretty bad oxycodone problem. They had detoxed several times but always relapsed within a month. They recently detoxed and went on suboxone and it seems to be working really well for them. I think they'll be on it short-term, as that what the program protocol dictates. Though in truth, it seems like a longer-term sub program would have been a better choice.
Watson540= acetaminophen/hydrocodone 500 mg / 10 mg.
You said you are taking 12 pills a day, so that works out to 120mg hydrocodone which is average after taking them for 3 years.
This also works out to be 6000mg of acetaminophen a day, which is extremely BAD, you are taking an acetaminophen overdose every day.
You are playing a very dangerous game taking that much. That must have been a lousy Doc you were seeing to prescribe that much. If you die from liver failure make sure your wife knows his name so she can sue him far malpractice.
I don't understand why you cannot see another doctor, and at the very least switch to a straight opiate without the acetaminophen until you can taper off the hydrocodone, which is what is the recommended way to get off them.
You can also use suboxone or subutex to get off them I would think. You have discussed this with a clinic already I gather?
I cn tell you in general what is the best suboxone treatment to get, however the clinic may recommend differently, it depends on your health problems and circumstances.
Generally however, the shorter the time you are on subs the better, or else you will develop a physical dependance to them as well. A lot of people use a short taper program, 30 days and less, which makes quitting the subs easier with little to no withdrawal symptoms after they taper down to a very low dose of 1 mg.
I don't know if you will have any side effects from stopping the hydrocodone suddenly however, or if you will still get any after you are finished your sub taper. That is something your Clinic Doc will better be able to tell you.
I do know that a short taper works for people getting off the same or higher doses of oxycodone, and lower doses of hydrocodone in the 50-80mg a day range, so maybe you will be ok in that respect as well.
I've seen people put on subs for heroin and methadone, and taking oxycontin for years at high doses, like 320mg/day and higher, but the sub treatment for some of them can be for a lot longer than 30 days for them. It depends how long they have been using for the heroin and and methadone users, and whether they were taking oxycodone recreationaly or for a chronic condition. There are two types of addiction to consider when you are put on a sub program.
The recreational user is more likely to be put on a longer term program because subs do not take away their desire to get high, and that's why they need to be in the program longer and have more intensive counseling.
The person with a physical dependency is more likely to be put on a short taper program because they do not take the drug to get high, and generally don't have a desire to take the drug at all other than out of fear of withdrawal symptoms.
I hope that helps you understand what to expect when you go there.
Your first visit will be to establish what your drug of choice is, how much you use, they type of user you are, discuss other health problems etc.
Then, if they say you are eligible. Then you will be given a quit day, where you will be told to stop taking the pills you are on, and score where you are on a scale (COWS ) to see how far along into withdrawals you are before they give you your first dose.
Some clinics will prescribe you some subs, then instruct you when to take them. It's based on the half life of the pills you are taking. They want as much of the opiate out of your system as possible before giving you your first dose, or it can cause precipitated withdrawals ( No, it isn't the naloxone in suboxone that does this, so it doesn't matter if you take subutex or suboxone in this regard)
Then, after watching you for a half a day usually, they will give you your regular dose and send you home if you are on an outpatient program, with instructions on when to start tapering depending on what taper program they put you on.
You said you are taking 12 pills a day, so that works out to 120mg hydrocodone which is average after taking them for 3 years.
This also works out to be 6000mg of acetaminophen a day, which is extremely BAD, you are taking an acetaminophen overdose every day.
You are playing a very dangerous game taking that much. That must have been a lousy Doc you were seeing to prescribe that much. If you die from liver failure make sure your wife knows his name so she can sue him far malpractice.
I don't understand why you cannot see another doctor, and at the very least switch to a straight opiate without the acetaminophen until you can taper off the hydrocodone, which is what is the recommended way to get off them.
You can also use suboxone or subutex to get off them I would think. You have discussed this with a clinic already I gather?
I cn tell you in general what is the best suboxone treatment to get, however the clinic may recommend differently, it depends on your health problems and circumstances.
Generally however, the shorter the time you are on subs the better, or else you will develop a physical dependance to them as well. A lot of people use a short taper program, 30 days and less, which makes quitting the subs easier with little to no withdrawal symptoms after they taper down to a very low dose of 1 mg.
I don't know if you will have any side effects from stopping the hydrocodone suddenly however, or if you will still get any after you are finished your sub taper. That is something your Clinic Doc will better be able to tell you.
I do know that a short taper works for people getting off the same or higher doses of oxycodone, and lower doses of hydrocodone in the 50-80mg a day range, so maybe you will be ok in that respect as well.
I've seen people put on subs for heroin and methadone, and taking oxycontin for years at high doses, like 320mg/day and higher, but the sub treatment for some of them can be for a lot longer than 30 days for them. It depends how long they have been using for the heroin and and methadone users, and whether they were taking oxycodone recreationaly or for a chronic condition. There are two types of addiction to consider when you are put on a sub program.
The recreational user is more likely to be put on a longer term program because subs do not take away their desire to get high, and that's why they need to be in the program longer and have more intensive counseling.
The person with a physical dependency is more likely to be put on a short taper program because they do not take the drug to get high, and generally don't have a desire to take the drug at all other than out of fear of withdrawal symptoms.
I hope that helps you understand what to expect when you go there.
Your first visit will be to establish what your drug of choice is, how much you use, they type of user you are, discuss other health problems etc.
Then, if they say you are eligible. Then you will be given a quit day, where you will be told to stop taking the pills you are on, and score where you are on a scale (COWS ) to see how far along into withdrawals you are before they give you your first dose.
Some clinics will prescribe you some subs, then instruct you when to take them. It's based on the half life of the pills you are taking. They want as much of the opiate out of your system as possible before giving you your first dose, or it can cause precipitated withdrawals ( No, it isn't the naloxone in suboxone that does this, so it doesn't matter if you take subutex or suboxone in this regard)
Then, after watching you for a half a day usually, they will give you your regular dose and send you home if you are on an outpatient program, with instructions on when to start tapering depending on what taper program they put you on.
You're certainly in the right place to get support. What is Watson 540? Is it oxycodone or hydrocodone?
First I'll say that I was not addicted but rather physically dependent. I didn't like taking so much medication and I've tapered off nearly everything. (At the moment I have to stay on a small amount due to some health issues.)
Since you got them from a doctor, were you having pain? If so, what kind. If you have a legitimate pain problem, you'll also need to figure out how you'll deal with that when you get off the pills. Many people manage their pain without narcotics.
I was taking more medication over the past 4 years than you. I'm sure there are others as well. (I was on Fentanyl along with oxycodone, Cymbalta, Ativan, Ambien. Also had been on high doses of oxycontin, morphine, both IR and ER, Vicodin.) I think they had me on everything other than methadone.
It's good you're addressing this problem. Do your research on suboxone. It's a great program for those that really need it but it isn't just about taking the suboxone. You have to work the program as well. Suboxone has it's own withdrawals. It's not an easy out. But it does work for people that really need it if taken the right way.
Maybe you could taper down while you're waiting for your appointment. There are things that you can take to help ease any withdrawals. Lots of people have gone CT, even from high doses of narcotics. It's not easy but it's over within a week, give or take. You definitely will need some aftercare, whether it's AA/NA or with a suboxone program, they'll probably have meetings and a counselor for you to see. I hope the suboxone doctor you're seeing has a whole program in place and is not just prescribing the sub and sending you on your way.
The Thomas Recipe will give you an idea of what to take if you have withdrawal symptoms. And it's really important to stay hydrated. Drink a lot of water, clear liquids and Gatorade is good as it replaces electrolytes. Look up the things the Thomas Recipe includes. A lot of people say it really helps with withdrawal.
It sounds like you have a lot of stress in your marriage. I can only speak for myself, but I was married to an addict for nearly 18 years. There was a time where he got clean for nearly 5 years. At the beginning of his sobriety, I still would worry and be anxious about him using but over time I began to trust again. It took a while as his addiction had serious consequences and when trust is broken, it takes a while to reestablish it. Maybe you and your wife could get some counseling. Many marriages that have been shaky due to addiction have been repaired with time. I can say that after a bit of time, when I saw he was really working his program, our marriage was the best it had ever been. There came a point where I really never worried about him picking up again. Unfortunately, he slowly stopped working his program and he picked up again. And it cost him everything: his family, his job, friends, his home.
You'll get a lot of support here but you also need to have support in real life. Again, please do your research on suboxone. It does really help a lot of people but there are also people who have regretted using it. It really isn't for people that have small pill habits. It may be the right thing for you but know what you're getting into. Find out how long the doctor you're seeing plans on keeping you on it. Some people use it for a short period of time (a few weeks;) others are on it for years.
First I'll say that I was not addicted but rather physically dependent. I didn't like taking so much medication and I've tapered off nearly everything. (At the moment I have to stay on a small amount due to some health issues.)
Since you got them from a doctor, were you having pain? If so, what kind. If you have a legitimate pain problem, you'll also need to figure out how you'll deal with that when you get off the pills. Many people manage their pain without narcotics.
I was taking more medication over the past 4 years than you. I'm sure there are others as well. (I was on Fentanyl along with oxycodone, Cymbalta, Ativan, Ambien. Also had been on high doses of oxycontin, morphine, both IR and ER, Vicodin.) I think they had me on everything other than methadone.
It's good you're addressing this problem. Do your research on suboxone. It's a great program for those that really need it but it isn't just about taking the suboxone. You have to work the program as well. Suboxone has it's own withdrawals. It's not an easy out. But it does work for people that really need it if taken the right way.
Maybe you could taper down while you're waiting for your appointment. There are things that you can take to help ease any withdrawals. Lots of people have gone CT, even from high doses of narcotics. It's not easy but it's over within a week, give or take. You definitely will need some aftercare, whether it's AA/NA or with a suboxone program, they'll probably have meetings and a counselor for you to see. I hope the suboxone doctor you're seeing has a whole program in place and is not just prescribing the sub and sending you on your way.
The Thomas Recipe will give you an idea of what to take if you have withdrawal symptoms. And it's really important to stay hydrated. Drink a lot of water, clear liquids and Gatorade is good as it replaces electrolytes. Look up the things the Thomas Recipe includes. A lot of people say it really helps with withdrawal.
It sounds like you have a lot of stress in your marriage. I can only speak for myself, but I was married to an addict for nearly 18 years. There was a time where he got clean for nearly 5 years. At the beginning of his sobriety, I still would worry and be anxious about him using but over time I began to trust again. It took a while as his addiction had serious consequences and when trust is broken, it takes a while to reestablish it. Maybe you and your wife could get some counseling. Many marriages that have been shaky due to addiction have been repaired with time. I can say that after a bit of time, when I saw he was really working his program, our marriage was the best it had ever been. There came a point where I really never worried about him picking up again. Unfortunately, he slowly stopped working his program and he picked up again. And it cost him everything: his family, his job, friends, his home.
You'll get a lot of support here but you also need to have support in real life. Again, please do your research on suboxone. It does really help a lot of people but there are also people who have regretted using it. It really isn't for people that have small pill habits. It may be the right thing for you but know what you're getting into. Find out how long the doctor you're seeing plans on keeping you on it. Some people use it for a short period of time (a few weeks;) others are on it for years.
Hey David! I'm glad you decided to stop. Is there any way you can do it without the suboxone? That's a very hard drug to stop. What scares you most about this? There are other things you can try! ; )
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