withdrawing of methadone for the first time

[sydneykid]

Hi guys,

I need some advice. First a bit of background about me. I'm 27yo living in Sydney Australia. I started smoking pot around age 12 or 13 and got big into party drugs (mainly LSD, speed and ecstasy some coke too) around 15. At age 16 I started smoking heroin (this was late 90s and high quality heroin was everywhere in sydney). During all this time I was smoking a lot of pot. before school, lunch time, and lots after school. In fact if I hadn't become so addicted to heroin I probably would never have quit smoking pot (heroin soon consumes all your money and time). I attempted to detox in private rehab facilities here 4 times, but mostly it was forced by my parents and/or court ordered so I never really gave it a chance. My girlfriend of the time was also a user so of course she brought drugs in for me. Anyway, as my life was getting pretty out of control (well it had been for a few years) finally at age 19 I started  a methadone program. Again I still continued to use heroin almost every day for probably a year as I didn't really 'trust' the methadone and I was heavily mentally addicted to heroin. I also started injecting heroin AFTER I was in the methadone program as smoking it no longer did much for me on such a large dose of methadone. Eventually by changing my life I was able to break that mental addicition to  heroin and just was on the methadone (90mg per day). At age 21 I got started getting into coccaine in a big way with a habit of about 2 or 3 grams a day (injected). This caused me even more problems and led to a number of seizures and one heart attack when overdosed. Nothing worse than being found in a massive seizure by my parents, who then called the ambulance, even worse was as I started to come around I was hallucinating and had no vision and thought people was attacking me, so I fought off the poor medics helping me, who called 2 more for back up, and when they could not restrain me called 2 police officers too. Imagine how awful it was when I finally came good seeing 4 medics and 2 police in my room (one of which was pretty beat up) just trying to help me, but I think them holding the oxygen mask over my face in my out of it state made me think someone was trying to strangle me (remember I couldn't see or hear). Anyway, with support of my family, and realising I was heading for long term jail or death meant I got of the coccaine no problem.

Ok, so I got my career back on track and have a very good job, but I was still on 90mg of methadone a day. After 2 years or so of mixing with people who have no drug problems and staying away from any old associates I finally broke the mental hold that drugs had over me. So I lead an outwardly normal life. I travel overseas a number of times a year, have great hobbies, a great girlfriend and now own some property here in Sydney. But going to the clinic 2 days a week (5 take aways) is terrible. Plus methadone use has meant I have much less motivation, and I have put on weight a lot. So about 3 years ago I started reducing my dosage 2.5mg at a time for about 2 weeks, then down another 2.5mg. I got down to 15mg which was where it got hard. With some persistence I got down to 7.5mg of methadone (1.5ml). I then took 2 and a half weeks off work and was given physeptone tablets (10mg tablets). I always get these when I travel OS and I have noticed that I feel much better on the tablets. I can go longer without needing my dose, I just generally feel better. So I went down to 5mg for about 4 days. Then 2.5mg for about 4 days. and now have just done approx 1.5-2mg for 3 days (hard to measure exactly has the pills I break up by hand).

Today I have taken nothing so I expect the real trouble is about to start. I have some Ambien/Stilnox and also valium (5mg tablets) and some rohypnol (1mg tablets) to help me through. I have tried not to take any as I don't want to be taking the pills for more than 4 or 5 days at a time (no point swapping one addiction for another again).

I have one more week off work so I hope I will be work ready in a weeks time, but reading peoples experiences on here has me a little worried. Can anyone who has gone cold turkey of such a small dose give me any feedback on their experiences?

I would also love to here of anyone who has switched to bupremorphine for a short period to help detox of a low dose of methadone. Lots of doctors I have consulted here in aus tell me of great success this way.

Methadone was great in that it allowed me to stabilise my life and beat my mental drug addiction over a number of years. But's it's nearly 10 years of methadone use now, and it's time I put a stop to it. I was far too young at the time to have the will to get through the heroin withdrawal, but now I have no mental desire to use the stuff.

I also wonder what I will be like? I'm sure my personality will change, but I don't know what I will be like. I mean I was a young teenager the last time my system was drug free. Scary thought that one.

Any other advice people have will be greatfully received.

[sydneykid]

wow, that didn't mean to be such a long post sorry.

I will also add that drug addiction very nearly ruined my life, and it certainly made it a lot harder than it had to be. I have lost a number of friends to drug related deaths and had 2 die in front of me. I have also been able to save a friend of mine who I just happened to find unconscious having, OD'd, vomited and blocked her airway. I was able to revive her, but her boyfriend who was OD'd next to her died. Not a nice way to go. I also know plenty of people who contracted disease through careless drug use. Luckily her in sydney there are lots of places to get free equipment but when on drugs your judgment is clouded and people make bad choices. Luckily for me I was always very anal and never shared any injecting equipment but many people I know (including an ex girlfriend of mine) were not so careful and paid the price.

[Imtired]

Welcome to this forum. You have quite a story and I know there will be some people helping, giving advice soon. I don't have any expirence with methadone, so hold on.  I've read alot of really good posts here about what you're going through.  Check out Junkies journal. She has alot of good info there.

[Imtired]

Welcome to this forum. You have quite a story and I know there will be some people helping, giving advice soon. I don't have any expirence with methadone, so hold on.  I've read alot of really good posts here about what you're going through.  Check out Junkies journal. She has alot of good info there.

[sydneykid]

thanks mate. :) I think it helps just for me to put some of it off my chest. There have been many more low points and some awful things I've seen and done. Drug addiction can be terribly destructive. Particularly when you are young and don't really have the means to legally support your habit.

Methadone (once I gave it a chance) was very positive for me in that it took away the need for criminal activity from my life and allowed me to rebuild a normal life, and to slowly work through my psychological dependence on drugs. but since then it really has become liquid hand cuffs, sapping my energy, my brain, and my motivation. Now that I have dealt with the mental dependence and issues I really just need to get rid of this physical addiction. I am pretty optimistic that coming off such a low dosage will not be too bad, but reading other peoples experiences does have me a little worried...

[Imtired]

yeah, I understand what you're saying.  I've cut back so much (hydros) and I know the wd's can't be as bad as before. But when you read others stories, it does get a bit scary. Everyone is different, and I think your mindset has alot to do with it.  I've learned more on this forum than I ever though possible about wds. It helps alot. but again, it's no picnic. Stay strong and keep posting and reading.
O on a completely different subject, Is it warm in Aus?  It down right cold here!

[sydneykid]

yeah it's summer now. most days around 25-30 degrees C. though this last week we've had some un seasonal rain and cooler weather around 20-22 degrees C

[feelingcrazierbytheday]

wow your story is powerful...you are so close to the finish line!  I must be honest with you and tell you that now that you are so close to the finish line, there are going to be tough exertions to make.  Now is the most important part.  The withdrawls you are going to feel are going to be touch...I'm sorry but i have to be honest.  I've quit heroin cold turkey 4 times and methadone was by far the toughest....it doesn't just affect your  body...it seriously seriously affects your head.  I'm not trying to scare you.  Just make sure that you have a support system around you.  Also the half life of methadone is so long that you have tapered so fast and it will probably not fully kick in for at least a week.;...be prepared that withdrawls will most likely last 3 months...i was on it for a month and it took 3 months...but i too quit cold turkey after a while and my God i thought i was NVer gonna make it.   most importatn...surround yourself with positive people, ideas, and this forumm..turn to it at any weak moment...and be prepared because there will be many..we are all rooting for you buddy!!! your almost there!!!!!

[toxictome]

welcome to the forum....wow...what a story....makes my little ol' habit look like a piece of cake....but reminds me where it could lead if i choose to go back out there! I don't have any experience on this DOC, but keep posting, there are ALOTof knowledgeable people on here....good luck!

[sydneykid]

thanks guys. yeah I've gone cold turkery on heroin 4 times before and one in particular was very, very bad. couldn't sleep at all for 3 days and I couldn't stop moving my leg to the point that the muscles in my leg got so weak I couldn't stand up. and I was mentally in a very bad way. that rehab I broke out in my pajamas after about 5 days and caught a train 2 hours into the city to score (this rehab was way out in the country to try and prevent that happening).

feelingcrazier has me a little worried! I haven't taken any methadone since saturday afternoon and it's tuesday evening here in sydney now so that's 3 full days without it. took a few ambien last night to sleep and they worked quite well. methadone is such an awful drug. if this were a heroin addiction I was fighting the worst of the withdrawal would be over by now, but it seems like it may be still to come. :(

Thanks for the support. I will update with progress. I wont be going back to methadone, that's for certain. If things get too bad I may try buperenorphine for a few days, but I'd rather just stay clean of anything apart from the benzo's to help me sleep.

[wait2long]

i successfully transitioned from methadone to bupenorphine (suboxone/subutex here in the U.S.) and i highly recommend it if you have to go back to work in a week...it can take  up to 6 weeks to withdraw physically from methadone...but then you could have up to 3 years of PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome), so i am sorry to say that another week most likely wont be anywhere near the time you need...
also i am on suboxone long term...BUT if you wanted to use bup to get off methadone, it can be done shorter term, but i am recommending 4-6 weeks of being on the bup to get you through the withdrawals from the methadone...even at that low of a dose it will be tough. and you have been on it for such a long time, which seems to also make a difference...i would do the bup for the time needed to get off the methadone..or take more time off from work and just tough it out...but just know...this can be done either way if your committed...good luck and if you have any questions shoot me a message...

[witchery]

We are pretty much on the same boat..Pls keep me posted with your w/d journey k!
I believe in you!!!

How's Stilnox treating u?? Blah that made me hallucinate baddd

I only got 1 t/a a week! it sucks bad...I'm waiting for my drug test to get more t/a..On such a low dose I'm on liquid form so much easier to measure

[feelingcrazierbytheday]

hey hun, I'm sorry. I was not trying to worry you. I just read your post and i feel bad for telling you all that. however, i also feel obligated to prepare you for the journey ahead.  Look up the thomas recipe...take lots of vitamins, don't drink soda, lots of water, no junk food, not that you'll want to eat anyway.  I spent lots of time in the bathtub...hot water....for most people it might be scolding but for me it was the only way i could ease the pain...even if only for 5 minutes.  try to stay busy..i know it's hard.  what i found really helpful was watching the show Intervention on A&E.  It's about drug addicts and how they deal with everything.  If you have On demand than it's under A&E channel.  ANyway, just a suggestion.  IT helps to see that other people have gone through this and in the end they have their lives back.  Just keep thinking to yourself how much this is going to change your life.  That is what kept me going.  Try to remember what it felt like to feel normal..to not feel this pain, this weak, to not have these thoughts....to be able to sleep in because you want to...not because your on pills.  to be able to get through life without always thinking, when should i take my next pill or how am i going to get it?  IT IS POSSIBLE to do it.  With methadone, whether or not you taper, it will be a rough ride....that is simply inevitable.  But it sounds like you've had your share of withdrawls as well.  The worse part for me was not being able to sleep. It took 3 weeks before i finally got sleep.  So the nights were the worst for me...but i remember you saying ambien helped you sleep.  It did not work for me unfortunately but you should use it when necessary if it helps.  And try to work out if you can.  I know it's tough..i felt SO weak i would literally crawl to the bathroom to pee....but after a while i tried to force myself to do a litle situps, pushups, anything to wear out my spasms.  I am praying for you hun...i know you can do this...please feel free to contact me anytime.....

[sydneykid]

thanks guys. that is great advice. to be honest it hasn't been nearly as bad as I had expected so far. I think going from just 2.5mg to nothing is not as bad as I had anticipated. Bear in mind I reduced from 90mg down to the 2.5mg fairly slowly (like over a couple of years) so I have been feeling pretty uncomfortable and edgey and had disrupted sleep on and off for about 2 years now! I think most of it is mental. This is the first time that detoxing was purely my choice and I prepared myself as well as I could. I know I have some 'done handy should I crack and need it, and I have lots of benzos to help me sleep if need be.

Definitely night time is the worst, but during the day is not too bad. I watch TV, play PS3 etc it takes my mind off it.

whitchery. the stilnox is not too bad. I had 2 X 5mg valiums last night before bed,  but still couldn't sleep so around 2am I took 1 X 10mg stilnox and after probably 30 min of tossing and turning I had an ok sleep. I probably have a fairly high tolerance to benzos and sleeping tablets as I used to abuse them when I was using heroin. but I haven't really taken any for years till now.

I think I will almost definitely be back at work next Tuesday. I have a pretty important job, in an office etc (don't want to get too specific) but more time off is not an option. In fact I've been wanting this time off to detox for about 2 years now but I have always had too much on at work, so when I saw this gap I took it and have to make it work.

Some symptoms I have are the goose bumps, and cold and hot rushes, and I get the jimmy leg sometimes too, but one I haven't had before is sore teeth. that was unexpected. also the last few days I've had a headache, but I think that's from the stilnox not the withdrawal. Surprisingly I still have an ok appetite too. This is nothing like how I remember my bad heroin detox's, but again I think a lot of it is mental attitude, back then I was fighting it hard, now I'm willing it on, want to get it over as soon as possible.

Thanks again for the advice and support, it really does help a lot.

[sydneykid]

well another day down. not going to badly really. I would say the withdrawal so far has been prolonged rather than acute. I haven't had the really bad sweats, or the feeling like I want to tear my stomach apart, haven't had any crying or fits of rage either. nothing like the times I withdrew from a big heroin habit. I think the key is coming off such a low dose. I know lots of people who have tried to jump off 30mg or 20mg etc with limited success. So here's hoping I can stick with it. :)

[sydneykid]

still going. I actually think it's getting harder now. again, I still don't have any acute withdrawal pain, but I have persistent ones and after over a week of this it's very tempting to just instantly put a stop to it. that is what I found so hard to give up with heroin in the past. I mean you are sick, really sick, nose running, body temp all messed up, guts crawling and the worst part is you know that if you chose to you can heal yourself instantly, and not only will you feel normal again, but you'll feel better than normal. that is a hard deal to turn down. but so far so good. :)

[sydneykid]

still going. also still suffering withdrawals but not un bearable. still having disturbed sleep which sucks though. :(

[wait2long]

HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN (OOPS) for you?

[sydneykid]

well I guess it's been a month now. since Jan 20. still feel pretty crappy some of the time, but it's bearable (just!). hopefully I will be back to normal soon. I really didn't think it could last this long. :( but I think the worst should be behind me.

[wait2long]

congrats honey!  you have done the almost impossible!
this is a HUGE thing you have done!!!

[mr.lucky66]

You say you have been on the done 10 years? That's a long time but you are young and can break free easier than an older person, if you really want too. It's good to have some benzos around for acute detox as long as they don't trigger you as they did me. all the best

[sydneykid]

yep, nearly 10 years. hard to remember exactly when I started on 'done but it was either 1998 or 1999 I was about 18 or 19. :( For about 7 of those years I was on 90mg and the last 2 or 3 I've spent slowing coming down.

It's now been just over a month opiate free. and it's now been a week since I stopped taking any benzos (or ambien). I had previously gone one or two nights without any, but now I've managed a whole week I think if I can mange another week I'll chuck the rest out.

I still feel pretty agitated etc in the evenings but it's manageable and I assume it can only get better from here. :)

[feohmoon]

Wow - You have done wonderfully!!!
In Aug.'07, my fiance and I were on 110mg.methadone...we began detoxing 5mg. per week until a couple weeks ago - the clinic began reducing our dose by 2 mg daily.  This morning, we dosed at 25mg. (and counting!!!) - our last dose will be March 6 and we are ready.  We are all too familiar with methadone wd...debilitating.  We will actually being going ct from 7 mg..  We began a strong vitamin and mineral program last month...incorporating some of the Thomas recipe along with herbs and other natural remedies as well as injectable B12 starting 2 days ago...We will continue with the vitamins, minerals, herbs, hot baths w epsom salt, energy work and positive thinking - and one other very important ingredient...this forum.  You guys are great.  
Your story is inspirational!  
Try the vitamins, etc.  Methadone depletes your body of its vitamins which is very painful...a big reason for the severity of the wd.  Also, when purchasing vitamins - buy only chewable, soft gel or injectable...since the methadone prevents our gut from proper function.  Good news is that it can be repaired with the vitamins, minerals, herbs.  
Please try some of the natural remedies...see if it helps...I posted some in my journal and some is from the Thomas recipe...
Please continue posting...If we can help you at all...just let us know.
Good job...we can't wait to accomplish what you have!  Just think how far you will have come by then!

[sydneykid]

thanks for the encouragement, and the advice too. :)

It's now been nearly 2 weeks since I took any benzos or sleeping pills too, and I'm sleeping fine. I still feel edgey in the afternoons and evenings, but I manage to get to sleep ok.

I will start trying some vitamins too, thanks for the advise.

I hope you and your fiance go well with your effort. You seem to have it pretty well planned out so I'm sure you'll be fine. The hardest part is getting started and taking it for the last time. it's so tempting to just say "well one more day" but you have to draw the line somewhere. :)

[mr.lucky66]

So now you are off the Done? If so congrats and a job well done. Too many people are intimidated by methadone withdrawl. I did it many times and suffered some times and not as much others. It has more to do with attitide and faith than anything and some meds (not sub. or ultram) can help. "Methadone, there's no future in it". all the best