Aa
suboxone question! (dosing,doctor,help please) positive feedback only!
hello everyone,
just to make everyone clear about my situation before i ask the question- i have been 'clean and sober' for a year and a few months now. i went to a out patient facility last summer and here i am still receiving suboxone treatment by my pcp doctor. i went to outpatient treatment for opiate/heroin addiction. after three months of being in the facility i found out i was pregnant. i left the outpatient place and started to get treated by my pcp doctor, he had told me that my best option would be subutex and i would be weening down monthly and before i gave birth i'd be completely off subutex. well that clearly wasn't a possibility my OB informed me when i was on 8mg of subutex that i could not go down anymore if i were to even change the dose it'd be going up higher than lower. i was so devastated because i was mislead. but everything ended up perfect, i had my daughter 3/31/13/. anyways, after i had my LO i finished taking subutex for two weeks and then got switched back to suboxone. which was scary but i didnt make too big of a deal about it. now that it's been some time (5 months on the 31st) my doctor and i are having a miscommunication. im having urges in the way that i feel like the dose is wrong, i have such a big problem with my anxiety/depression, i feel sick alot of the time and before the end of the 2 week period of my perscription i have to buy more strips. i don't feel like im getting the best treatment. i only now have found a therapist that actually works with me, has knowledge about sub/subutex treatment and i can even bring my daughter with me! but here's the thing because i feel like im being pushed ( which isn't a bad thing) i feel like i can't even take my recovery 100% seriously because im so worried that ill be sick. anyways, i havent used any opiates/heroin. i don't want to at all! dont get it wrong but i feel like my tolerance is high and with the mental and psychical w/d it's hard to get up and move daily. im worried that if i voice my problems he will discharge me. but i have talked to this counselor over the phone and he told me that it's completely normal and that he can help me work w/ my doctor and find a balance.
i really do not want to have negative feedback with this subject because that won't do anyone good.
i do care about my sobriety and recovery and will not go backwards but i really am at my witts end.
just to make everyone clear about my situation before i ask the question- i have been 'clean and sober' for a year and a few months now. i went to a out patient facility last summer and here i am still receiving suboxone treatment by my pcp doctor. i went to outpatient treatment for opiate/heroin addiction. after three months of being in the facility i found out i was pregnant. i left the outpatient place and started to get treated by my pcp doctor, he had told me that my best option would be subutex and i would be weening down monthly and before i gave birth i'd be completely off subutex. well that clearly wasn't a possibility my OB informed me when i was on 8mg of subutex that i could not go down anymore if i were to even change the dose it'd be going up higher than lower. i was so devastated because i was mislead. but everything ended up perfect, i had my daughter 3/31/13/. anyways, after i had my LO i finished taking subutex for two weeks and then got switched back to suboxone. which was scary but i didnt make too big of a deal about it. now that it's been some time (5 months on the 31st) my doctor and i are having a miscommunication. im having urges in the way that i feel like the dose is wrong, i have such a big problem with my anxiety/depression, i feel sick alot of the time and before the end of the 2 week period of my perscription i have to buy more strips. i don't feel like im getting the best treatment. i only now have found a therapist that actually works with me, has knowledge about sub/subutex treatment and i can even bring my daughter with me! but here's the thing because i feel like im being pushed ( which isn't a bad thing) i feel like i can't even take my recovery 100% seriously because im so worried that ill be sick. anyways, i havent used any opiates/heroin. i don't want to at all! dont get it wrong but i feel like my tolerance is high and with the mental and psychical w/d it's hard to get up and move daily. im worried that if i voice my problems he will discharge me. but i have talked to this counselor over the phone and he told me that it's completely normal and that he can help me work w/ my doctor and find a balance.
i really do not want to have negative feedback with this subject because that won't do anyone good.
i do care about my sobriety and recovery and will not go backwards but i really am at my witts end.
And I'm forever getting confused by the two screen names because they are SO close. Lol
Me too! My old lady brain cannot keep up! ;0)
Me too! My old lady brain cannot keep up! ;0)
Wow! Great advice ladies. I learn so much from ya'll. And I'm forever getting confused by the two screen names because they are SO close. Lol
I didn't realize you were running out and buying off the street. Please please try to stick with your dose. NurseGirl gave some great advice! Stay strong!
I also want to congratulate you on your baby! Glad you had a healthy baby with no issues!
Hopefully I can shed some light here for you, being that I have some experience working at a sub clinic.
MOST (if not close to all I would say) patients on sub have a fear of tapering and a fear of coming off, that's totally normal. I think you're assuming that the way you feel is related to your sub dose being inadequate. 8mg is a pretty hefty dose. If you were just new to sub, or adjusting from your induction dose post your opiates, I would agree that your dose might need looked at, but you've been on it for quite some time. You should be well stabilized on the sub. I think PART of the problem is that you're supplementing your Rx with subs you're buying, and then when you try to adhere to your prescribed amount, you're experiencing some w/ds (or think you are anyway). How much extra do you take, and for how long? (Like 2mg extra daily for a week? More? Less?)
To be perfectly honest with you, going UP in your dose really isn't the answer, again, because you've been on it a good while and should be stabilized. If you can stop supplementing your Rx and give yourself a solid 2 weeks or so, you will re-stabilize and probably feel fine. Then you can start a slow taper.
It's normal to fear dropping down in dose, everyone pretty much does. I'll tell you that the dosage reductions at the higher doses (4+ mg) usually are very easy to tolerate, many people don't report any w/d symptoms at all. It's the lower doses, usually when a person gets down to 2mg and under when it becomes more difficult to taper. You should be able to tolerate the taper pretty well for a while. First though, again, you need to stop supplementing your dose and allow yourself to stabilize and adhere to your dosing schedule.
Don't be afraid to talk to your doctor about all of this. It sounds like your doc is pretty reasonable. Hopefully, you can at least put him off for a few weeks while you allow yourself to stabilize a bit after you ditch the extra. Probably most of what you're experiencing isn't related to the sub at all, it could be generalized anxiety, etc. Have you tried seeking help for anxiety? Do you have a history of anxiety?
Also, there is a huge part of this that is mental. Like for instance many people will convince themselves they don't "feel" right in between doses if they're dosing 2-3 times a day, when in reality, at the larger doses, it honestly makes no difference, the way sub is absorbed and metabolized, it shouldn't make a difference if a person takes their whole dose in the morning in one dose, or splits it up throughout the day, but if you talk to the sub patients, they SWEAR there is a difference and many struggle to eliminate doses (combine doses into 1 versus 2 or 3). Many even admit they know there's a huge mental component to it. Those are hurdles they have to overcome.
You want to do whatever it takes to break free of these chains, as you demonstrate a pretty significant mental need for the sub. It's a crutch no matter what, but some people become so dependent on it, that the thought of making changes is debilitating to them. You sound like you fit the bill for that. You can want badly to come off, yet feel stuck at the same time because you feel such a strong "need" for it. I would bet that's where you're at. That's okay, you CAN get past that, it will just take a little work and patience.
Talk to your doc, tell him you want to start setting some slow goals, but you want to mentally prepare a little bit. Tell him at your next appt (or in 2-3 weeks) you would like to drop down. Tell him that you would like to keep the dose reduction minimal. If you go from say 8mg a day to 6, you honestly should NOT experience anything significant w/d wise. At the worst, some mild aches and pains. Nothing like full blown w/d. I cannot stress that enough. You will still have enough sub on board to be okay. Then, verbalize that you want to have stabilization periods in between reductions. Those should be at least 2 weeks, some people take longer, and that's okay.
You're going to be fine. Get yourself into some meetings, does your sub clinic require therapy of any sort? If not, ask for a referral to an addiction therapist. We required both private and group sessions, which helped the patients a lot. I'd say that our MOST popular group session topic was tapering and how to handle the anxiety that comes with it. I've sat in on those sessions and I can tell you that those folks helped each other so much, sharing their experiences. They gave each other the courage they needed to try. You have to start somewhere though hon, and the best place is to stop getting the extra. I PROMISE you will adjust, and after a few weeks, you'll feel fine. It's hard, but you have to work on the mental hang up. It's normal to have, trust me you're not alone there.
You can do this! Please keep posting...I'm anxious to see how you do!
Hopefully I can shed some light here for you, being that I have some experience working at a sub clinic.
MOST (if not close to all I would say) patients on sub have a fear of tapering and a fear of coming off, that's totally normal. I think you're assuming that the way you feel is related to your sub dose being inadequate. 8mg is a pretty hefty dose. If you were just new to sub, or adjusting from your induction dose post your opiates, I would agree that your dose might need looked at, but you've been on it for quite some time. You should be well stabilized on the sub. I think PART of the problem is that you're supplementing your Rx with subs you're buying, and then when you try to adhere to your prescribed amount, you're experiencing some w/ds (or think you are anyway). How much extra do you take, and for how long? (Like 2mg extra daily for a week? More? Less?)
To be perfectly honest with you, going UP in your dose really isn't the answer, again, because you've been on it a good while and should be stabilized. If you can stop supplementing your Rx and give yourself a solid 2 weeks or so, you will re-stabilize and probably feel fine. Then you can start a slow taper.
It's normal to fear dropping down in dose, everyone pretty much does. I'll tell you that the dosage reductions at the higher doses (4+ mg) usually are very easy to tolerate, many people don't report any w/d symptoms at all. It's the lower doses, usually when a person gets down to 2mg and under when it becomes more difficult to taper. You should be able to tolerate the taper pretty well for a while. First though, again, you need to stop supplementing your dose and allow yourself to stabilize and adhere to your dosing schedule.
Don't be afraid to talk to your doctor about all of this. It sounds like your doc is pretty reasonable. Hopefully, you can at least put him off for a few weeks while you allow yourself to stabilize a bit after you ditch the extra. Probably most of what you're experiencing isn't related to the sub at all, it could be generalized anxiety, etc. Have you tried seeking help for anxiety? Do you have a history of anxiety?
Also, there is a huge part of this that is mental. Like for instance many people will convince themselves they don't "feel" right in between doses if they're dosing 2-3 times a day, when in reality, at the larger doses, it honestly makes no difference, the way sub is absorbed and metabolized, it shouldn't make a difference if a person takes their whole dose in the morning in one dose, or splits it up throughout the day, but if you talk to the sub patients, they SWEAR there is a difference and many struggle to eliminate doses (combine doses into 1 versus 2 or 3). Many even admit they know there's a huge mental component to it. Those are hurdles they have to overcome.
You want to do whatever it takes to break free of these chains, as you demonstrate a pretty significant mental need for the sub. It's a crutch no matter what, but some people become so dependent on it, that the thought of making changes is debilitating to them. You sound like you fit the bill for that. You can want badly to come off, yet feel stuck at the same time because you feel such a strong "need" for it. I would bet that's where you're at. That's okay, you CAN get past that, it will just take a little work and patience.
Talk to your doc, tell him you want to start setting some slow goals, but you want to mentally prepare a little bit. Tell him at your next appt (or in 2-3 weeks) you would like to drop down. Tell him that you would like to keep the dose reduction minimal. If you go from say 8mg a day to 6, you honestly should NOT experience anything significant w/d wise. At the worst, some mild aches and pains. Nothing like full blown w/d. I cannot stress that enough. You will still have enough sub on board to be okay. Then, verbalize that you want to have stabilization periods in between reductions. Those should be at least 2 weeks, some people take longer, and that's okay.
You're going to be fine. Get yourself into some meetings, does your sub clinic require therapy of any sort? If not, ask for a referral to an addiction therapist. We required both private and group sessions, which helped the patients a lot. I'd say that our MOST popular group session topic was tapering and how to handle the anxiety that comes with it. I've sat in on those sessions and I can tell you that those folks helped each other so much, sharing their experiences. They gave each other the courage they needed to try. You have to start somewhere though hon, and the best place is to stop getting the extra. I PROMISE you will adjust, and after a few weeks, you'll feel fine. It's hard, but you have to work on the mental hang up. It's normal to have, trust me you're not alone there.
You can do this! Please keep posting...I'm anxious to see how you do!
Hey nice screen name!! Lol. Only one number off from mine! I am currently day 22 off Sub (Bupe actually)!!! Yeah me! Lol. Anyways I was on it for almost 6 years! I really thought I was going to stay on for life. Suboxone saved my a**!! I never relapsed while taking it and truly helped me get my life back in order and learn how to live pill free. I was taking 20-30 Vic's a day for 4 years. I was a freaking nightmare while I was using! Lying, stealing, cheating, prostituting. Yuck! What I am saying is Suboxone can be so positive for a lot of people. From the sounds of it...the Subutex was working better for you during your pregnancy. Maybe ask the doc to switch you back? My Sub doc is a recovering pill addict himself so he totally understands his patients who have cravings and who feel their dosing is incorrect. I really think that if you're honest with the doc...he will understand. I'm a new mommy too and it's sooo hard to handle the new emotions and stress. If you don't feel ready to taper or go off the Sub...then don't. However...keep in mind that Sub is a very strong and addictive opiate and eventually...you're going to have to wean down and come off. I normally don't come on here and support the continued use of any pills. But I think in your case...you need a little more time to adjust. I am no doctor so keep that in mind too. These are just my opinions and experiences. Be honest with your doctor sweetheart. I think it'll serve you well. Best of luck to you and CONGRATS on the baby girl!!! I snuggle my daughter all day everyday! Just love them to pieces!!
What exactly does your pcp say about all of this? ALSO, their are a gazillion ways that your counselor/pcp could help you address the mental anxiety/ problems that you are facing.
I guess my goal is to get the mental health part of my addiction treated. I know I have alot of issues that need addressed before I complterly come off or in my mind even taper. im sure everyone suboxone user would want to stay on forever because that would involve no work. i don't have a time frame - and i do not want to stay on sub. forever but i also would like to have alittle bit of understanding from my pcp that i am willing to do the work with my addiction but i right now do not feel comfortable with the dosing that im on.
Hi again. I'm not going to be much help here because my knee-jerk reaction is to try to get your to want to decrease and taper, not to ask for an increase. However, I ask you to take that with a grain of salt because I don't have any experience with subs and there are many on here that do (they should come out later tonight and give you the advice you're looking for).
Do you have a desire to quit or are you content with staying on the subs permanently? I'm curious as to what your ultimate goal is because it appears that you have listed many reasons why you cannot taper/decrease. I can think of a million reasons why you should stop completely...the w/ds only last for a little while...so worth it in comparison to a lifetime:). *Big hugs* and keep posting here and keep us updated!!
Do you have a desire to quit or are you content with staying on the subs permanently? I'm curious as to what your ultimate goal is because it appears that you have listed many reasons why you cannot taper/decrease. I can think of a million reasons why you should stop completely...the w/ds only last for a little while...so worth it in comparison to a lifetime:). *Big hugs* and keep posting here and keep us updated!!
im sorry if i wasn't clear with what i was asking basically without doing therapy consistantly since ive had my daughter (lack of time/transportation/finding a place) it's been hard to not feel like decreasing in the suboxone dose would be a good idea. i can't even get the words out to my pcp that i do not want to go down. i feel embarrased and i also feel like i have failed. i have been on 1 film for a month now but here's my issue that isnt enough im not asking to go back to 16mg more like 10 mg that was when i felt no stress comfortable and happy. i feel as if i don't have a fear of running out and the pressure from my dr to ween down i will be able to function and go through this process easier. how can i approach this situation with him? i see him on monday and have gotten incontact with a counseling place and told them that im not comfortable with my sub. dose and that its becoming an issue for me. i was told that it may be easier for my pcp to understand if i have a letter from this new therapist that i need more time to be on a higher dose since i havent been recieving mental health. seeing as we know that addiction is hand in hand w/ counseling and meetings. i want to eventually get off suboxone but im going through a tough time right now, becoming a new mother, relationship/family issues, obviously my addiction, moving forward with life, etc. i have alot on my plate, i also was diagnosed with ptsd and depression so when i go through a tough time i feel like it's all hitting me at once and i dont want to come off as if im making excusing for not wanting to decrease my dose but it is what it is. so my question or what i need advice about is how do i tell my dr i do not want to decrease my suboxone dose which is at (8mgs) as of right now but if possible want to increase to 10mgs because i dont feel stable? what is the best way to go about this without causing too many issues. i can't afford to be discharged i do have a LO and i need to be treated ! :(
Hi and welcome! Congrats on your new baby! That's so exciting!! Don't worry, you will not receive any negative feedback here:). You're in the right place and you've taken the first BIG step by reaching out for help/support/advice. I don't have an experience with this drug since I was strictly pain pill geared, but there are tons on here who do have the experience. Have you told your doctor that you want to get on a taper plan and to begin tapering down? There is no reason (that I'm aware of) that he couldn't help you develop a slow taper plan to assist in getting you off the subs!! I'm so happy you're here and please keep us posted on how your doing/feeling. You'll find tons of support here:).
FIRST: CONGRATULATIONS on your precious bundle of joy! Its GREAT to hear that your daughter is happy and healthy! Im kinda slow today and don't understand the question?? Are you trying to get off all meds? You wanna stay on some but at a different dosage? GREAT job on quitting the heroin/opiates... Its the best gift you can give your daughter...A clean and sober mommy!
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