Switching from 9 months of Meth to Suboxone

[WantMyLifeBack2010]

HAS anyone ever used methadone for opiate addiction treatment and switched to Suboxone? If so, please let me know how your experience was....

I have been at my methadone Clinic since 4/20/2011.

I found a Specialist through my Health Insurance that prescribes Suboxone....I have my FIRST Intake appt at 11 a.m. Tomorrow-Friday January 20th....they want me to be 36 hours off my methadone so On Tuesday, January 24th  when I meet with the doctor I have to be 36  hours without Methadone!!!!..he will then decide what dose of Suboxone to put me on....I will get a script for 3 days worth of  Suboxone ....That will be tuesday then I have to go back Wed, Thurday,Then on Friday I will get what ever amount of days as i wont know until tomorrow how many days. They want to explain all that at my Intake tomorrow.....???
Right Now I am at 25 mg of methadone. I tried to taper but only made it to 20mg back in November. I didn't do well and had them stop the taper and up my dose of Methadone back to the 25mg....Where I AM STUCK and too scared to try again......

So basically I just want to make the switch to Suboxone and begin the detox phase but I don't know if the doctor will allow that?? but I have to do something I can no longer go to this clinic..
I have ALSO  been told Sub is MUCH EASIER to taper from.....?? TRUE? FALSE??
PLEASE let me know if you have been where I'm at now and did the switch from Methadone to Suboxone.....
Thanks in advance!!!!

[WantMyLifeBack2010]

Good Morning my Dear Friend....thank you for your kind heart, your thoughtful words, your prayers ...I DO Feel the love of Jesus with me I feel all the prayers being prayed for me...its a wonderful Feeling to have ALL of these members on here with there advice just cheering me on, encouraging me...and You Gnarly have been MY ROCK, My spiritual guide through this journey.
All of your advice has been right on the money....
for everyone reading this Especially if you're new to the forum and med help, GNARLY KNOW what he's talkin about!!!
I must say in the beginning I thought "I have it all figured out, I'm going to do this MY way and I dont' care what anyone says".....WRONG!!!! I did try it my way and it didnt work...so I went back and re-read some of Gnarlys posts from MONTHS ago.....and said..."ok I'll try his way" and so FAR i am doing fine...

AS for what you stated " After a DROP in Dose it takes a few days to HIT"  so far I have experienced as I posted that when I awake my mornings, well its like I open my eyes and BAM I am sweating, shaking, my insides feel all queezy...my head feels WEIRD (thats the only way i can describe anxiety for those who havent ever lived with it as I did in all of 1999 to 2001) Bmdad & ricart have both replied with what makes COMPLETE Since!!

So I will continue to update all my wonderful friends on here on my prognosis....

talk to ya soon!!
Kim

[gnarly_1]

hey Kim how you feeling  ?? I know you did the drop this week and sometimes it takes a few days to hit...I will continue to pray for your success and that the rest of your taper goes well just remember dont rush it and some withdrawals are normal the main idea is to keep them manageable and try to stay bizzy when thy hit it seams more intense if you just sit there I will be checking on you from time to time to see how your doing and try to offer helpful advise this will be one of the greatest accomplishments of your life you will see that a few days after your last dose hang in there good luck and God bless......Gnarly    

[WantMyLifeBack2010]

Thanks for the advice and I have punished my body with SO many drugs What the H3LL?? I'll try it....

and Brian...that was too funny when you wrote "I know what else would go away" GOOD to laugh from the posts....that TOO I have FOUND is Good for anxiety.----LAUGHTER!! i Have some Vintage  Dennis Leary DVD's to watch and some  Kevin Hart...Even movies...h3ll I'll watch the Hangover as many times as it takes.....

thanks again for the encouraging posts Ricart and Brian!!!! If ya think of anything else.............send it over.....

Have a GREAT weekend.....
Kim

[ricart70]

I do it alot and I read that celtic warriors used to start their day by jumping into a cold river or stream as an act of bravery to start their day.Also it forces the blood to rush to your core to protect vital organs,then when you get out of the shower you get a nice warm feeling kind of the opposite as the cold feeling you get when you step out of a hot shower.The good feeling usually lasts for 30 minutes or so.

[bmdad]

I can tell you what else would "go away" if I did that!

It actually sounds like a great idea. Your mind would instantly focus elsewhere without you trying to force it to do so. It would kind of be like if you stubbed your toe and then a few minutes later you broke your arm. You wouldn't even feel the pain from the stubbed toe because all your mind would recognize is the broken arm.

I like the idea Ricart.

[ricart70]

glad things are going well for you.Mornings suck-drugs or no drugs.I just get up and try to start doing something as soon as possible.THis may sound crazy but if you turn the cold water on and just jump into the shower those anxiety feelings will go away instantly as your body fights against freezing to death.I actually find it an easier thing to do than to get up and make myself do something.I know I'm weird but it really feels great to get out of the freezing water and be instantly wide awake and relieved all at the same time.Then get going doing something

[bmdad]

The morning seems to always be the worst time for anxiety and symptoms. I think it's because when we are sleeping we don't feel them. It ends up being a big shock to our body and mind once we open our eyes and start feeling again. If you lay there and let your mind adjust to what's going on, or get up and get busy moving, it will take your mind off of things. That initial shock will subside some.

You're doing a great thing here Kim and you will succeed. Remember, Mind Over Matter!

We're here for you whenever you need us.

Hang in there.




Brian

[WantMyLifeBack2010]

Just wanted to UPDATE you ALL....AS I posted I was beginning my taper AGAIN and so far the dose of  20mg Of  Methadone I am doing fine. YES I have Anxiety But  when I feel it as bad as I did this morn when I opened my eyes from a FULL nights Sleep ( yes I had to take a PILL in order to get a full nights sleep---An ambien)  but upon waking I was in a full body sweat, shaking and my anxiety was at an all time HIGH.....But instead of running into my cabinet in my bathroom to take my Xanax I layed in bed and PRAYED for him to lay his hands on me & take these anxiety feelings away or at least give me the Strength to handle them? I prayed from 8 until 8:25....
I wasn't paying attention to the time I just knew I woke at exactly 8 a.m. ....

I then got out of bed along with the wonderful loving greeting I get each morning from my rescue dog I adopted. he kisses me cuddles with me we play and then  we get up to wake the Guys up....
I was fully functional and didn't take my first Xanax until 9:30 and I usually take my afternoon one by 1:00 but I didn't need to until just before typing this up....

Each time I feel anxiety coming on I Stop and PRAY!!!

So there it is everyone....my update on my prognosis.....so far the only issue is Sleep......

Thank you all for your advice your kind words of Encouragement and for just BEING HERE for me......THANK U SO MUCH!!!!

I will continue to update and to all Have a GREAT-SAFE and BLESSED Weekend!!!!
God Bless,
Kim

[WantMyLifeBack2010]

Thank you for that inspirational reply!!! I can't thank all of you enough for such support I am and have recieved from each one of you!!
The old saying God puts people in our lives for a reason is so very true! Brian you are correct I have to stop allowing my mind to hold me back from accomlishing what I know I have the ability to do.....take control of my life just like I did when I began treatment for my addiction to the pain meds....
I "THOUGHT" or had this image of how horrific my intake on 4/20/2011 was gonna be and of course it wasn't!....
NOW I have to let go of the fear of tapering from the very medication that saved my life.
Its time....time for me to live again without the clinic or the daily dosage....
and re think my thought proccess about EVERYTHING just like a child learning to walk I have learned to crawl ...that is for sure......Now its time to get up and WALK!! Walk into this process with a positive attitude and then WALK AWAY.....
thank you ALL you have NO idea how much each one of you have helped me and get ready as I will be chimming in so I am counting on the ones that wrote: WE'RE here for You Kim.......
God Bless to you Brian and congrats on your success your words and your kindness in writting to me.....
Kim

[ricart70]

ditto to bm,what he said   and also it's great that they will let you go down less than 5 mgs.I hear alot of clinics will only let you down in increments of 5 mils.   You can do it.I know you have the strength .Let your faith allow you to use that strength!    Great attitude kim!

[bmdad]

I love your new attitude!! So much of this is mental so a positive attitude is everything. When I was in the Marine Corps one thing they taught us from day one is "Mind Over Matter" or the belief that the mind is more powerful than the body. Before the Marine Corps and before my addiction, I never would've believed. I no longer look at it as a belief but a fact. There isn't anything out there, within reason, that we cannot accomplish and I'd would bet my life on it. If you go into something with a plan of attack, a positive attitude and knowing that failure is not an option, you will succeed. Is it always easy? Of course not, but it is what you make of it. It's all too easy for us to make things seem harder than what it really is. It's often human nature but it doesn't have to be that way. It's up to us.

Have faith in yourself. We all have faith in you and know you will get there in due time. Stick to the plan you described above, stay positive and you will reach that finish line Kim.

Best of luck and if you need anything, please let us know.




Brian

[WantMyLifeBack2010]

thank you for your reply and YES you are so correct....I AM JUST DELAYING the inevitable...No more looking for the "easier way through this" as there IS NONE!!!!
I started the paperwork and I begin my taper once again tomorrow down to 20mg's....I will as Gnarly has EXPRESSED to me many times...to TAKE IT slow...I've come this far....just taper down slow n easy and STOP trying to RUSH through it.....
Which I did do back in November when I tapered from 30mgs after being at that dose for well over 3 weeks, then went down to 25mgs and I FELT SOOOO GOOD I thought "WHat the Heck if I feel THIS good at 25mg then 20 will be a BREEZE...so I tapered within 7 days to the 20mgs and Boy was I WRONG.!!!
That was my mistake....
So i will be on 20mg for at least 14 to 16 days provided I am doing fine I will then decide to go down to 17mg's.....then I  will make my decision as to STOP after being at the  17mg for 14 to 16 days?? AGAIN a decision to make once I am THERE......
for now I am relying on my faith my strength and YOU GUYS as med help has been the best website I have ever been a member of...no body looks down on me for my mistakes or makes me feel like a failure ( I do that all on my own-LOL) you ALL and my ANGEL Gnarly for always ALWAYS checking in on me.....giving me the tools the words of wisdom his experience he is my Guardian ANGEL

Again my thanks to you and all the ones that chimmed in on my post and gave such great advise and made me realize I am READY to do this to stop allowing FEAR to stop me.....and BELEIVE IN MYSELF!!!
THANK YOU THANK YOU!!
Kim -----is ON her Way to the finish line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WantMyLifeBack2010]

Thank you so much for the TRUTH and your replies ricart70!!!! :-) ...I will be updating back on the addiction chat group...I guess or methadone  forums i cant remember the one I initially started up on when I began treatment at the metadone clinic and Where I met Gnarly MY LIFESAVER my angel sent from God to help me as all of you are!!

I will begin my 20mg as of TOMORROW so I started the TAPER process yet again - had a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG talk with my husband this morning BEGGING him to please be patient with me as I DO NOT know what to expect other than what i have be advised by my med help friends....I can not have you (husband) stressing me out about Why aren't you looking for a job or anything that will ADD to my stress or anxiety which I already have and have had for 11 years .....been on Xanax for it WHICH at my next Doctors appt i plan on asking her for an alternative for them as I have built up a tolerance after 11 years at 3 a day ..
anyhoo...thank you and everyone else reading this I will be posting as much as posible on my prognosis.....

God Bless each and every one of you!!!
Kim

[pray4me121]

i started feeling really bad today about it. i get very mad easy. i have three boys and i know they need me. i just want to quit!! i took 1 today, to make me feel better, it makes me sick that one little tiny yellow pill can make you feel so much better, tomorrow im going to do none, is it because ive used up all of my resources for the time being? i just want to QUIT and be funny sarcastic, great mom, loving me again! thank you so much for listening, ill keep you posted. i will be on here tomorrow to tell you how ****** im going to feel.

[ricart70]

Hey pray4me.  Don't worry,your dopamine and serotonin levels are not depleted forever.It will return to normal levels if you just quit and give it some time.We have all been there and it is totally doable to get off of this stuff and be happy.Don't let fear control you.Fear will keep you where you are.We are here for you

[pray4me121]

i dont know why im up. ive been reading posts and i read something that alarmed me. norcos is what ive been taking for the past 2 years. im afraid ill never be happy even when i kick the habit. i never read on side effects, i dont listen when someone talks about them, i aviod that altogether. im afraid my dopemine and seratonine levels are depleated forever.. afraid now more than ever..

[goingcrazy401]

Hi I read your post and all I can do is give my story and you make the decision.  I was so oxys and methadone from a doc for chronic pain for many years and started abusing all over again  I tried to cold turkey but was so sick i decided to go to a sub clinic.  They said it would take 9 months plus to detox but they were wrong  They put me on 24 mg a day  I decided not to go back and spend my money there and detoxed in 21 days by tapering with the 21 sub strips they give me.  If i had it to do over I would have never done the subs.  I still went through hell and am still fighting. I cant speak for you but I went through wd and still dont have it licked but i am feeling better every day  It took almost 12 days to feel like moving around. I still have the pain and shakes and cold chills and triple sneezing runny nose but everyone here has been so encouraging that i am still hanging in here, I am also using the thomas recipe and amino acids. Good luck in what ever decision you make!  We are all here for you so just keep posting

[WantMyLifeBack2010]

Jeremy you are more than correct with everything in your post....And Yes I am a very healthy 45 yr old woman - I do not smoke, nor do I drink alcohol- I have a  work out regimen??.... so as for any medical conditions-None. My recent blood work came back perfect even my liver enzymes  are back to normal...because they were a bit high  last year- it was When I began my treatment I had to go for blood work that day before they gave me my complete Dose of methadone so I am fine???
My husband is so upset at the fact they KNEW before hand that we are NOT rich but they assured me they "work things out with EACH individual as each one of us need INDIVIDUAL treatment....?? REALLY?? Also they assured me that I I am a candidate -as they decide at the intake if they feel the person is willing to take this serious and GET clean"....
if that's working with a so called candidate/patient with limited funds I would love to see how much they are charging the ones that have the cash????

They insisted that the "Danger" of a rapid detox is the patient will relapse and end up Using more than before thus causing me to overdose and die. Ummmm I haven't used in 9 freakin months can get them ALL of my UA to prove I they have all come back CLEAN while I've been on methadone....??

So at this stage in this LONG journey I've been on I will just deal with the fact that my methadone clinic ONLY allows me to dose  down/ Taper down in mg's of 5 which also makes the taper so darn hard and THEY know that .....that is why they have SO many long term patients because tapering in 5's is HARD it threw me into such an anxiety attack when I tried to do so back in November I thought I for sure I was going to end up in the hospital before my next dose and tell them to stop my detox?? Therefore my decision to go back up.....

But I have to do it I have to stay STRONG and have my counselor  start the paperwork tomorrow and start the process.....I feel as tho I'm just not meant to go through this unless I feel the pain of With drawal so I never use again???

I don't mean to sound like I have it sooo bad I really don't ....I have the ability to continue going to the oh so lovely methadone clinic I will just have to dig in DEEP as I posted and DEAL with what I HAVE created.

I take FULL responsibility of my addiction I take full responsibility for my husbands lack of trust in me...I own it all... for godsake  I understand Why he isn't supportive I have put him through so much with my addictionS throughout our 22 years that WHY he is even with me is wonder to me....

and no you didn't get my hopes up I always ALWAYS keep it in the back of my mind that the doctor will not honor MY needs....What you did is allow me to read a WONDERFUL success story of yours & your wifes and I love HAPPY STORIES of Success...and I thank you for that and I WANT THAT!!!!!!!!!
I will have those words written one day I know it and I have faith ME!!

Thank you again for replying......and I will be in touch with you to keep my spirits up with your words of wisdom!!!! and I will PM you on a few things I still wanted to ask....

Thanks so much Jeremy ,
Kim

[hellc@mst]

HUH!  I can only assume that the doctors are privvy to some previously undisclosed medical condition which prevents you from undertaking a 2-3 week suboxone taper. There is no other reasonable medical justification requiring an otherwise healthy individual to undergo a prolonged (3 month)suboxone taper. As I mentioned earlier, the 2-3 week suboxone detox is the default treatment in NZ and is also common in Australia, France, the UK and South Africa so Im interested to know what dangers the doctor was alluding to.

If I were a cynic I;d say that the doctor is preying upon your desperation and fear and is leveraging these anxieties to extort  his exorbitant fees. There is a clear conflict of interest when the gatekeeper/arbiter of an effective and expensive medication is also allowed to unilaterally decide the duration of the treatment. We arent doctors or medically savvy so we generally kowtow and acquiesce to the doctors expertise. We automatically go into a doctors office with a degree of goodfaith and trust. Naively, we feel that they have our best interest at heart and would never try to exploit us.

Sadly it seems as though you may have stumbled upon an unscrupulous snakeoil salesman (aka doctor) keen to shill a protracted and selfserving suboxone regimen which may, in all likelyhood,  precipitate an equally nefarious dependance as the drug (methadone) you were initially seeking respite from. The reluctantly agreed to 3 month suboxone taper beggars belief  He isnt offering a solution, he's offering more of the same only this time he is the primary beneficiary.

  It was naive of me to expect your doctor to honour your wishes and facillitate a widely used detox protocol.  Im sorry if I raised your hopes. I think its best if you take your chances with the methadone. I cant see any benefit coming from  the 3 month suboxone detox you were bullied into.  The advantages of suboxone are diminished/negated by  prolonged exposure. Surely your doctor must know that? Its useless when used this way and no less traumatic than a methadone taper.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or just need to shoot the breeze. Good luck on your journey.

Kind regards Jeremy.

BTW, how long did THEY want you to remain on the suboxone before you all finally agreed to 3 months?

[ricart70]

I am with iamdonenomore The tools are in place,the lifestyle is in place,the support is in place,you are reasonably healthy,it is a good time.By summer you can be living a good clean life.
Keep posting we are here!!

[ImDONENoMore]

As frustrating as this has been for you, Kim, it's time to wean off and get started.  Going on the subs only extends the time before you have to deal with the withdrawal.  You're going to go through withdrawal whether you wean off the meth or the subs, so why not get going and just do it now?  The sooner you stop the sooner you can begin to get well.

Good luck to you!

[vicki595]

What a load of BS they gave you!!  Very poor practice and "hard sell" on the money!  They tried to manipulate you emotionally! You did the right thing by walking out...

Just pick a day to begin your Methadone taper and cut it back by a very small amount over a long period of time. Gnarly will support you with this, I'm sure.

Keep posting so we can continue to support you!

[theaddict]

wow, what a touching story and thread you've got here. it must seriously have put a damper on things when they told you about the cost of everything, especially after handing out so much money to begin with for this entire treatment, only to end up back at square one. i hate to be the one to say it here, but just think of all the money you spent [aka wasted] on the drugs itself, you know what i mean?

i'm also sorry to hear that it was your vacation fund that you spent in order to get the treatment, but sometimes life has it's way of reminding us what we've done to ourselves as well as others around us when we go through something like an addiction. i am also sorry to hear that your husband isn't very supportive. i know that must stink - but my addiction and recovery led me to realize that i deserve someone to treat me right and be supportive of my decision to get back to me, and i ended up leaving the person i was with at that time. i am now happily married and 411 days sober, as of today.

please keep us all posted, and know that you are definitely in my thoughts as well as prayers each and everyday, now that i have gotten to know your story a little better in reading through this entire thread. if there is ANYTHING members here love, it's being able to help, support, love and post. so please post as much as you possibly can so that we can keep up with you and check in with us so we know how things are going, or ways that we can possibly help you through this.

i know i say it all the time and people are probably tired of reading the same words over and over from me - but try your hardest to keep your mind on other things, and not what's currently going on with your body.

[WantMyLifeBack2010]

THIS post is also for everyone that replied to my post Like: ricart70-hellc@mst-

The intake appt was great...great group of people with the ability to help me knowledgable, kind, ready and willing to allow me to do it MY way. I told them about a rapid detox on Suboxone and said to them in a very Assertive voice "Why not allow me to do it MY way, I am the patient, I have already been in a Methadone clinic for 9 months now, I have NO contact Nor have I in those 9 months with ONE single person from my days just prior to attending the clinic. I am also working on myself I keep a daily journal about my new life, I have spiritual guidance and this SITE Med Help with so many people always ready and willing to answer me, email me, encourage me to "keep up the good work" So worst case scenerio, the 2 weeks rapid detox doesn't work, YOU HAVE ME, I am now commited to Suboxone and coming here. So If I hand you close to $600.00 just to BEGIN taking sub and another $165.00 each week which would be only 2 weeks just for the doctor to write me a script, DOING MY WAY....If I can't do it, If it doesn't work, then I will do it YOUR WAY"!!!
NOPE.....the typical reply which I KNEW WAS COMING.....
WE have been doing this for many years and YOU Kim have to trust Us to do whats best for you. PLUS a 2 week rapid detox is DANGEROUS"??
DANGEROUS....??? I'll tell you what's DANGEROUS....Is the amount of Pills I was swallowing EVERYDAY and for the love of God I am STILL here alive and kicking. ON ANY one of those days for 3 years  during the Height of my drug use of 16+ a day of percocets along with Snorting  up to 6 of the 30mg  Roxy then throw in those lovely Oxy's snorting  2 to 3 of the 80 mgs of-------------all IN A DAY....
That was my Dangerous life .....and you're saying the way I want to do it...I am and have already been in TREATMENT its not like I'm on 160 mg of Methadone its only 25mg's??? I do believe the suboxone should be used as my detox or Taper from Methadone???
Answer to all of that: We will allow you to do 90 days on Suboxone...as long as you do everything we tell you...

OK I'll freaking take it.....

Until I was hit with the cost: Monday the 23rd  $175.00---Just to meet Dr. Tatum.
Tuesday while on a 26 hour detox from Meth- Go meet up with the Doctor for my script & pay him $250.00
Wednesday go in to ck my BP & heart Rate and hand over another $165.00 to get my script for the following week
Then $165.00 EVERY week for the first month or in my case 2 weeks...

I sunk down and began to cry....telling them that is JUST NOT POSIBLE!!!
they came back with "Well look at it this way if YOUR way works and you successfully taper in 90 days You'll NEVER SPEND another penny on Drugs of Any kind ever again".....

If I had not already given the methadone clinic $6000.00 in 9 months then YES this would be doable......but we have depleted our vacation savings for MY ADDICTION....

So I am back to SQUARE ONE and will begin my Taper with the Methadone and with the Help of my Lord Jesus, YOU Guys always on here and ready to HELP me with encouraging words of wisdom by god I will just have to endure the W/D's.....I will get down to 10 mgs and from then on I will COLD TURKEY the rest of the way...........

All I ask that all of you reading this PLEASE-- IF you Pray, please pray for me.....Gnarly will walk me though this Journey.....my last 2 months of  Doses and I will have to deal with the rest of whatever I am to deal with.....

WE are all given the tools to be strong and will power as well....I have to tap into them and keep scratching and clawing my way till its over....and I can say I'm done....

Again THANK you all and God bless each one that has to live this life of addiction.......I will pray for you as well....

Be in touch with my prognosis.....Untill the next time....hope you are all having a great weekend and be grateful for what and where you are in your life...
Kim