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How to Detox from Norco 10/325
I am 59 years old, i started on vicoden 5/500 as needed for Gout. As with almost everyone i have read about it got out of hand. i am now taking 10-12 per day for a year or so. i want to get off and tried once but the coffee litters got to me they were really bad. i have read about subox as one way and valeum and cloradine as another way. the wd's is what scares me to death. I do have ins. and am about to call a doctor for counsltation. I would apreciate any guidenence/ experiance anyone can give me.
It is Aprial 4th., i went in on aprial 1st Monday AM with my lASt norco taken on sunday night March 31 i went in on Monday mornning at 8:00. they searched my belongings and gave me a room with three oth er guys. They gave me phenbarbatall and clordine for now to monitor me. my BP was 188'98 when i got in. i was fine untill 8:30 when i started to climb up the walls with anxiaty and the creepy crallers. they then gave me Sub u tex 2mg under the tung. two minnuits later i said that this is not doing ****. they gave m 4 more mgs which inside 30 seconds all the symptoms were gone. that **** is amasing.I did not want to get hooked on that either so i monitored everything they gave me.at 11:00 they gave me more phenbarbatall and 2 tyyasapan for sleep.tUSDAY MORNNING wakeing up at 6:30 i wanted nothing. they wanted to give me more sub U tex but i refused i only took my drugs that i had brough from home. at 8:30 i tood one more phenbargarall and one cloridine and thats it That noght they wanted to gige more Sub u tex but i refused i am trying to see how lont i have to stay fro he detox. they wnated at least a week 7 days.HA not me.
i went to bed on tuesday nothht with onn dows on phenbaratal and 2 does of tuuasapan for sleep. on Wednesday AM i woke up grogrey from the sleepingf pills and not the WD' systems.i decided i had had enough i called my wife and told her to pick me up at 11:00 so i could finish my Detrox at home. it is now 9:45 on thursday and the only thing i have had since i left is a copld on vodka and tonics and 2 amben fot sleep. i woke up to day grogrey from the amben and sore mussles. SOOOOOOOOO happy to be home. i am now 90 hours since i used and am fealing just ok. Any sucgustions from here would be apreciated.??
i went to bed on tuesday nothht with onn dows on phenbaratal and 2 does of tuuasapan for sleep. on Wednesday AM i woke up grogrey from the sleepingf pills and not the WD' systems.i decided i had had enough i called my wife and told her to pick me up at 11:00 so i could finish my Detrox at home. it is now 9:45 on thursday and the only thing i have had since i left is a copld on vodka and tonics and 2 amben fot sleep. i woke up to day grogrey from the amben and sore mussles. SOOOOOOOOO happy to be home. i am now 90 hours since i used and am fealing just ok. Any sucgustions from here would be apreciated.??
Well, the big day of the 30th has arrived for you....and you have found a medically supervised environment to detox. GOOD FOR YOU!!!
Because the drug I was addicted to is exactly the same as yours and I'm no spring chicken either....I'm really reading your progress with great interest. I have no idea what other meds, if any, you are on so it's hard to comment on the "going CT without a dr to help is dangerous comment".
However, if you are not being treated with meds for other health issues, I would disagree that it would be dangerous. (I thought that, too, but I did it and MANY others do too) So, having said that, if you have a medical environment that understands addiction and can give you meds to assist you and make it feel safer in your heart and mind....then GO for it!
I just want to encourage you to do something if you can BEFORE you admit yourself Monday. Do as much educating as you can on suboxone/buprenorphine (bupe). You said this hospital uses suboxone "or similar"....for detox. If you understand that 30 mg of hydrocodone is equivalent to only 1.2 mg of suboxone.....then at your current dose of 80 mg of hydro.......you would not need to be put on much suboxone at all.
(And then of course, you will have to w/draw from the suboxone, too at some point)
I was an uneducated, scared, crazy, person when I got myself down from 20-30 (10mg) hydros to only 10 pills/day when I took a crazy, wasted trip to the ER. The "recommendation" or option given to me (by my primary) was to go to a suboxone clinic. I had NOT even heard of it, not researched it, NOTHING. They put me on a ridiculously HIGH dose of subs.......if a 2mg strip of sub is equivalent to 60 mg of hydro.....all they did for me was INCREASE the amount of opioid that would be sticking to my pain receptors! It was not something I would recommend for someone on the dose of hydros you are on today. I went thru hell doing it....and learned "after the fact". Subs have their purpose....Subs can help some....but if gout and pain pills at 8-10 day is all you are dealing with.....the sub route wouldn't be one I personally would take.
I am just sharing that if you can equip your understanding of suboxone and read ALL you can on it BEFORE you are admitted, you can participate and know what you want to do for YOU. There are a lot of great articles in our health pages here on this forum (bottom of page) that you can seach thru and learn and read about subs. The one I really liked was the FAQ's about suboxone and for some "odd" reason that health page has been disabled.
BUT, there are several others in there. I don't necessarily agree with all I read in them, but I took what I needed, learned more than I ever knew, and let the rest go. I just did this "after the fact" and was sorry I hadn't known ahead of time, ya know?
Guess, my bottom line here is I am really happy you are getting this help and support....but ultimately we are in charge of our own health and bodies and don't just have to do and take whatever is shoved our way. If you know that clonidine (b/p med used in w/drawals) and many other meds can be used in lieu of the subs.....you may just decide to go that route.
Staying the full 2 weeks will REALLY benefit you......but if you feel you can only stay for one......one is better than none, huh? And you can always change your mind and stay 2 wks once you get going.....The first time I went to treatment, I REALLY needed all the time I was there to begin un-learning, re-learning, healing w/help, etc. It was a great experience!
I surely hope you will come back and post after you complete your inhouse
trmt.....and say, "hey"........OK?
Because the drug I was addicted to is exactly the same as yours and I'm no spring chicken either....I'm really reading your progress with great interest. I have no idea what other meds, if any, you are on so it's hard to comment on the "going CT without a dr to help is dangerous comment".
However, if you are not being treated with meds for other health issues, I would disagree that it would be dangerous. (I thought that, too, but I did it and MANY others do too) So, having said that, if you have a medical environment that understands addiction and can give you meds to assist you and make it feel safer in your heart and mind....then GO for it!
I just want to encourage you to do something if you can BEFORE you admit yourself Monday. Do as much educating as you can on suboxone/buprenorphine (bupe). You said this hospital uses suboxone "or similar"....for detox. If you understand that 30 mg of hydrocodone is equivalent to only 1.2 mg of suboxone.....then at your current dose of 80 mg of hydro.......you would not need to be put on much suboxone at all.
(And then of course, you will have to w/draw from the suboxone, too at some point)
I was an uneducated, scared, crazy, person when I got myself down from 20-30 (10mg) hydros to only 10 pills/day when I took a crazy, wasted trip to the ER. The "recommendation" or option given to me (by my primary) was to go to a suboxone clinic. I had NOT even heard of it, not researched it, NOTHING. They put me on a ridiculously HIGH dose of subs.......if a 2mg strip of sub is equivalent to 60 mg of hydro.....all they did for me was INCREASE the amount of opioid that would be sticking to my pain receptors! It was not something I would recommend for someone on the dose of hydros you are on today. I went thru hell doing it....and learned "after the fact". Subs have their purpose....Subs can help some....but if gout and pain pills at 8-10 day is all you are dealing with.....the sub route wouldn't be one I personally would take.
I am just sharing that if you can equip your understanding of suboxone and read ALL you can on it BEFORE you are admitted, you can participate and know what you want to do for YOU. There are a lot of great articles in our health pages here on this forum (bottom of page) that you can seach thru and learn and read about subs. The one I really liked was the FAQ's about suboxone and for some "odd" reason that health page has been disabled.
BUT, there are several others in there. I don't necessarily agree with all I read in them, but I took what I needed, learned more than I ever knew, and let the rest go. I just did this "after the fact" and was sorry I hadn't known ahead of time, ya know?
Guess, my bottom line here is I am really happy you are getting this help and support....but ultimately we are in charge of our own health and bodies and don't just have to do and take whatever is shoved our way. If you know that clonidine (b/p med used in w/drawals) and many other meds can be used in lieu of the subs.....you may just decide to go that route.
Staying the full 2 weeks will REALLY benefit you......but if you feel you can only stay for one......one is better than none, huh? And you can always change your mind and stay 2 wks once you get going.....The first time I went to treatment, I REALLY needed all the time I was there to begin un-learning, re-learning, healing w/help, etc. It was a great experience!
I surely hope you will come back and post after you complete your inhouse
trmt.....and say, "hey"........OK?
just to keep everyone informed i found a hospital that is going to take me in on monday. they use subosone or simmiler for detox. they wanted me in for two weeks because of the amount, duration and my age. I am plainning to do it in one. This is a place that has me doing meeting all day and am supervised by nurses and has been in exsistence for 20 years.it is run by Alta Bates in Oakland, Ca and is called MPI. Anyone had any experiance with this? I dont know what else to do at this point. everyone i talked to says that going Cold Turkey without a doctor to help is dangereus. any advice would be greatly apreciated.
the day grows closer and i am tapering a little i went from 12-10 a day probley not enough to make a difference. still cannot find a doctor. i am still going to try to go cold turkey on the 30th so any advice on any otc that can help would be apreciated.like i have been saying the axiony is what has got me scared to death over everything else i can musele through
I agree with everyone else about tapering if you can . Please do it before 10 turns into 20 . You can do it and we are always here to help . ) Jimmy
I am commited even more now my wife and daughter which was an addict before is behind me. i told my dealer today no more no mater how much i ask or beg for them. the 30th is drawing closer and i am starting to imbrace it instead of dreading it. today i went from three in the mornning to 2 and the aftermnoon from 10 to 8 and one at bed time to sleep throuth the night. will try to do better toomorrow in prep for what i know is comming.
With federal and state government going after doctors for dispensing too many pain meds, doctors are responding by slamming doors in patients faces.
And treatment is now being left up to those doctors who choose to specialize in substance abuse.
You can read the posts in here about the varied ways doctors have responded to patients who, as you say, spill their guts about an addiction. You need to be prepared for how your doctor might respond (it can range from kicking you out the door to being compassionate and understanding and helping you through the WD process).
If you have had a long term relationship with your family doctor then he or she may agree to help you through the WD process.
Query: Is your family doctor the one who has been prescribing the pain killers? This may effect how he responds to your saying "Doc, I'm addicted." He may panic because he knows the rest of that sentence is "pills that you have been giving me." Then again, people have posted in here that on spilling their guts to the family doctor he has then embarked on a program to taper the patient off the drugs.
Do you want to see a doctor for help through the entire WD process or are you looking for one who will prescribe Valium or other drugs to lessen or eliminate WD discomfort? I suspect it will be easier to find the former rather than the latter.
And treatment is now being left up to those doctors who choose to specialize in substance abuse.
You can read the posts in here about the varied ways doctors have responded to patients who, as you say, spill their guts about an addiction. You need to be prepared for how your doctor might respond (it can range from kicking you out the door to being compassionate and understanding and helping you through the WD process).
If you have had a long term relationship with your family doctor then he or she may agree to help you through the WD process.
Query: Is your family doctor the one who has been prescribing the pain killers? This may effect how he responds to your saying "Doc, I'm addicted." He may panic because he knows the rest of that sentence is "pills that you have been giving me." Then again, people have posted in here that on spilling their guts to the family doctor he has then embarked on a program to taper the patient off the drugs.
Do you want to see a doctor for help through the entire WD process or are you looking for one who will prescribe Valium or other drugs to lessen or eliminate WD discomfort? I suspect it will be easier to find the former rather than the latter.
- Everyone is different, as you can tell from the posts. Some people go cold turkey, others need to detox under a doctor's care, and some taper.
- I suggest you look at Aaron Cohen's YouTube videos on how to deal with withdrawal symptoms when getting off opiates. His is a discussion about three components of the Thomas Recipe mentioned in this section.
Significantly, after looking at every comment in Cohen's videos people swear it works, the combo of over-the-counter meds makes going through WD easy. The meds he mentions are all in the Thomas Recipe.
And again, this is only MY opinion, but I would not consider taking Valium to deal with WD symptoms. Mainly this is because one of the WD symptoms suffered is depression and upset. Valium is a... depressant! So taking a mind-numbing depressant when going through WD does not make sense to me.
More importantly, as Doctor of Mind says on YouTube, Valium and opiates (including when going through withdrawals) respiratory depression can occur to where you simply stop breathing (and die). If you do go the Valium route you are going to need to have a long discussion with your doctor so he or she can do a full medical workup. And you will need to be honest and detailed so the doctor can decide what's best for you.
Again, see DoctorOfMindMD on YouTube, video number xE7D7fpsTj8 (By the way, this doctor's on-screen persona is that of an addict. He attempts to dress, appear, talk and otherwise act like many addicts do. He also engages in on-screen antics and theatrics to keep viewers awake on these very complex subjects.)
Also on YouTube check out Cohen's three-part videos on the OTC meds contained in the Thomas Recipe, starting with video number DVBLvitvG_A
And make sure to look at the comments appended to Cohen's videos.
- I suggest you look at Aaron Cohen's YouTube videos on how to deal with withdrawal symptoms when getting off opiates. His is a discussion about three components of the Thomas Recipe mentioned in this section.
Significantly, after looking at every comment in Cohen's videos people swear it works, the combo of over-the-counter meds makes going through WD easy. The meds he mentions are all in the Thomas Recipe.
And again, this is only MY opinion, but I would not consider taking Valium to deal with WD symptoms. Mainly this is because one of the WD symptoms suffered is depression and upset. Valium is a... depressant! So taking a mind-numbing depressant when going through WD does not make sense to me.
More importantly, as Doctor of Mind says on YouTube, Valium and opiates (including when going through withdrawals) respiratory depression can occur to where you simply stop breathing (and die). If you do go the Valium route you are going to need to have a long discussion with your doctor so he or she can do a full medical workup. And you will need to be honest and detailed so the doctor can decide what's best for you.
Again, see DoctorOfMindMD on YouTube, video number xE7D7fpsTj8 (By the way, this doctor's on-screen persona is that of an addict. He attempts to dress, appear, talk and otherwise act like many addicts do. He also engages in on-screen antics and theatrics to keep viewers awake on these very complex subjects.)
Also on YouTube check out Cohen's three-part videos on the OTC meds contained in the Thomas Recipe, starting with video number DVBLvitvG_A
And make sure to look at the comments appended to Cohen's videos.
It is amazing to know that this day and age i cant find a doctor in my area that i can go to for help for detox without going to clinic or subosadone doctor. I guess i need to go to my family doctor and spill my guts.
I am planning on going cold turkey on the 30th and just need to know how bad it is going ot be and for how long? Just looking for somthiing to lessen the anxiety
I'll post later tonight, a detailed opinion on what you should do.
This will be coming from someone who almost 100% WAS until late January 2013 doing the same as you, taking about 12 daily 10/325 Vicodin.
You are right to be concerned about the WD process and symptoms. I say this because about three times this year and last I suffered WD symptoms for two to three days (not for heroic reasons, I simply ran out of pills before my refill was available. Let's be honest here, the "pain" I experienced in late January was so severe that I 1) Swore to immediately implement a concrete plan to get off the pills; 2) Swore I would NEVER go through THAT again; and 3) Determined I would use a long taper before getting off these things. (I estimated my taper would take two months.) Bottom line: I admit it, if there's a way to avoid those WD symptoms, at least at the level I experienced, I am all-in, and then some. If that makes me a pantywaist, I'm OK with that since "ticks and scones may break my phone, but fame doesn't hurt me (however that saying goes).
Oh, what is the status of your prescrip? From your March 5 post you said you would be out by March 15, but later said you set March 30th. Does that mean you got a refill?
IMO, remembering I am not a doctor nor one able to read a wall clock, I agree that the longer a taper is the more likely it will lessen WD symptoms.
Unfortunate for you and your circumstance I am in the process of "testing" that theory using my own experience.
I started my taper on Feb 1 and six weeks later I am down to 4 to 5 pills daily, which is far better than the 12 daily (likely the number is higher than 12, but I ain't gonna put too much thought in to how major was my abuse). So that part of tapering does work, I am happy to say. Now I feel like a creep-ette instead of a full blown creep.
Anyway, I have some tips on how to wean - taper - yourself off this scourge of our lives. I don't think ten days is enough time to accomplish the goal of why you are tapering, eliminate or lessen WD symptoms. But that's just me. Others will definitely differ (including those who say cold turkey is the only way to do things, or to show your commitment by immediately flushing all pills down the toilet).
And I will also let you know what I found out about how to deal with the WD process. (For example, as I understand things, Thomas Recipe's Imodium "ingredient" is NOT for dealing with the runs (aka "the D word). Imodium works in conjunction with other OTC meds in the Recipe to almost eliminate WD physical symptoms.)
Oh, taking Valium for WD anxiety? From what I have heard, bad idea. (Obviously, this is something better left for YOUR doctor to talk with you about and to prescribe a plan.)
For now, I suggest you watch what DoctorOfMindMD on YouTube has to say about those pills, mixing them with opiates.
Here is the video number xE7D7fpsTj8 (By the way, doctorofmindmd is a psychiatrist specializing in substance abuse. I have found him to be the most informed source on the planet. And he gives a lot of his time to educate the public on drugs, drug abuse, and getting off drugs.
This will be coming from someone who almost 100% WAS until late January 2013 doing the same as you, taking about 12 daily 10/325 Vicodin.
You are right to be concerned about the WD process and symptoms. I say this because about three times this year and last I suffered WD symptoms for two to three days (not for heroic reasons, I simply ran out of pills before my refill was available. Let's be honest here, the "pain" I experienced in late January was so severe that I 1) Swore to immediately implement a concrete plan to get off the pills; 2) Swore I would NEVER go through THAT again; and 3) Determined I would use a long taper before getting off these things. (I estimated my taper would take two months.) Bottom line: I admit it, if there's a way to avoid those WD symptoms, at least at the level I experienced, I am all-in, and then some. If that makes me a pantywaist, I'm OK with that since "ticks and scones may break my phone, but fame doesn't hurt me (however that saying goes).
Oh, what is the status of your prescrip? From your March 5 post you said you would be out by March 15, but later said you set March 30th. Does that mean you got a refill?
IMO, remembering I am not a doctor nor one able to read a wall clock, I agree that the longer a taper is the more likely it will lessen WD symptoms.
Unfortunate for you and your circumstance I am in the process of "testing" that theory using my own experience.
I started my taper on Feb 1 and six weeks later I am down to 4 to 5 pills daily, which is far better than the 12 daily (likely the number is higher than 12, but I ain't gonna put too much thought in to how major was my abuse). So that part of tapering does work, I am happy to say. Now I feel like a creep-ette instead of a full blown creep.
Anyway, I have some tips on how to wean - taper - yourself off this scourge of our lives. I don't think ten days is enough time to accomplish the goal of why you are tapering, eliminate or lessen WD symptoms. But that's just me. Others will definitely differ (including those who say cold turkey is the only way to do things, or to show your commitment by immediately flushing all pills down the toilet).
And I will also let you know what I found out about how to deal with the WD process. (For example, as I understand things, Thomas Recipe's Imodium "ingredient" is NOT for dealing with the runs (aka "the D word). Imodium works in conjunction with other OTC meds in the Recipe to almost eliminate WD physical symptoms.)
Oh, taking Valium for WD anxiety? From what I have heard, bad idea. (Obviously, this is something better left for YOUR doctor to talk with you about and to prescribe a plan.)
For now, I suggest you watch what DoctorOfMindMD on YouTube has to say about those pills, mixing them with opiates.
Here is the video number xE7D7fpsTj8 (By the way, doctorofmindmd is a psychiatrist specializing in substance abuse. I have found him to be the most informed source on the planet. And he gives a lot of his time to educate the public on drugs, drug abuse, and getting off drugs.
I know ther is no magic pill to releve the W/D's but if i can get through the Anxiety thats what i am woried about. i have been reading about Valium for just the first few days really helped along with Clonidine.
Hi, fenceboard....so glad you found this forum! I'm not a young kid either....and my hubby didn't think he'd live long enough to see me off hydrocodone either. My "usual" (however it varied) daily intake was the same as yours, same drug, too. You definitely CAN do this!!
Finding a doctor that truly understands addiction would bless you big time!
You can do a search in the Fremont area for a addiction specialist....They will vary, too. It's good that you have decided NOT to go from pills to suboxone or methadone.....VERY WISE decision considering your history.
Having talked to your wife, having a quit date....GREAT STUFF!! We'll be here for you.....so glad you've decided to get off the merry-go-round~
P.S. I have family in Fremont I haven't seen for YEARS....they were horse country people years back. Sure it's changed TONS since I've been there though.
Finding a doctor that truly understands addiction would bless you big time!
You can do a search in the Fremont area for a addiction specialist....They will vary, too. It's good that you have decided NOT to go from pills to suboxone or methadone.....VERY WISE decision considering your history.
Having talked to your wife, having a quit date....GREAT STUFF!! We'll be here for you.....so glad you've decided to get off the merry-go-round~
P.S. I have family in Fremont I haven't seen for YEARS....they were horse country people years back. Sure it's changed TONS since I've been there though.
although i don't live in CA...i'm in FL...but just wanted to congratulate you on setting a commitment date....and getting your life back....opiates will rob you of everything if you let them....your life, personality...jobs, family...all of it...so we have to fight HARD to regain our lives back from the addiction...it can be done! hope you find what you are looking for as far as a doctor...maybe Google search for doctors with addiction experience in your area?? just a thought...good luck with it! you can do it! :) and i don't blame you for wanting to stay away from subs or methadone...no experience with either myself but i've heard they are awful to come off of....but for some it has helped with more potent narcs.
I have a comitment date of march 30th My wife told me last night that i am not the same anymore and that just tore me apart. Due to my work i will not be able to take any time off untill them. in the mean time i want to fine a doctor that can help me with the W/D's but not subs or anything. Can anyone help with that or am i not supost to ask? i am new to this and am very apreciative of the suport here. I live in Fremont Ca.
Hi , The stress and panic are worse then the W/D .
The tuff W/D is over in 4 - 7 days . The panic & stress lasts forever until you quit .
You can do this , others here have and so can you , Just have to want it bad and fight for a few days . Were here to help ... Ron
The tuff W/D is over in 4 - 7 days . The panic & stress lasts forever until you quit .
You can do this , others here have and so can you , Just have to want it bad and fight for a few days . Were here to help ... Ron
Thanks so far for everyones imput. I am leaning on the tapering off rather the cold turkey,Valeum ,and other drugs to cope with the WD's. I will run out in about 10 days and need to make a discision soon. All i know is i can't live or think of retirement with my beautiful wife untill i get off this roller coster in hell im on. Like i said the thing that scares me the worst is the jitters i get it so bad i know i will not be able to handle it with out some help of some kind, mabye only drugs for that short term.
BTW, I'm 54 M, been on them for 2 1/2 years. I take a beta blocker which is a medicine for blood pressure. That probably helped me a little as well. I've never taken vicodin other than how it is prescribed except during my tapering down, and only with a legal prescription. I've never had any other issues like this prior. Did I mention I was scared? :) The first time I tried stopping just to see, I had electricity running down my spine into my arms and RLS and heart was POUNDING, I felt like I was wired to an electric outlet. An hour or so that, plus pain, most fear I've ever had in my life. So that was what motivated me to cut down and to live with my conditions at a lower dose.
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