Starting sub today

[moonshyne777]

I am finally beaten down. This past year I have Been addicted to oxys. I was prescribed them for spinal stenosis but it quickly led to a downward spiral. I tried ct twice and jumped from 100 + mg a day. Got through the most insane wd's but a
month in both times I relapsed because I couldn't take the deep depression that followed. Finally I have decided to try sub.  I'm sitting here in the docs office feeling very sick but the end is in sight. I plan on doing sone serious after care and will use this time with my addiction in remission to get recovery going. I would have just put up with the pain if I would have known one day I'd be on this position.  

[moonshyne777]

Thanks gnarly,

I went and got that protein shake stuff today. I figure why not start now? I plan on tapering down and being done by July 1st. That will give me time to become established in my NA meetings and therapist routine. I'm also eating a lot better and just taking better care of myself all around. I am going to PM you later when my kids are in bed to ask some specifics on tapering. Thanks a lot for your help to everyone here.

[gnarly_1]

HI im glad to here you got a plan that is working for you it great your off the oxy with the methadone your no loger chasing the high..it puts your addiction in a temporary state of remission so you can build up your foundation to live a clean and sober lifestyle...you plan is sound.... keep your dose low and your time short you should have a successful experience with methadone...I will be here to help you ween off when the time comes
good luck and God bless.....Gnarly    

[moonshyne777]

Jordan,

That's exactly what I'm going to try to do. Your right, I never had luck tapering off of oxy because well, they were my doc and and I got high. With this, I don't get any high, I feel normal but my plan is to slowly taper down and see where my pain level is once I'm off. If I can get by on OTC's once I've tapered off this stuff then that would be good. So far this is working well for me, I don't take more and don't crave more (I still have cravings for oxy but haven't acted on them and hopefully with the continued support of my aftercare they will diminish in time) and finally I am not doing or chasing oxys and I can go to bed at night confident that I'll wake up. Couldn't say the same while on oxy. All around its working well and I'm happy with the fact I have finally found a way that seems to be working very well for me.

[JordanKnight]

Congrats on toughing it through this long.

I used to live in BC, and I feel you when it comes to the medical system up there. I'd never heard anything about Subs while there, but my addiction started after I'd left.

I think it's great you've got a plan in mind for stepping off the Meth, and, while I have no direct experience with doing so, I think you're right in assuming that if you WANT it enough, you can MAKE it work.

You mention you've had no luck with tapering, but that's likely tapering from meds that *do* get you high. That's the concept behind the Subs anyway. They're strong opiates, sure. They DO keep you addicted. But since there's no pro for doing more than the recommended dose, what bother? If you're not getting any "high" effects from the meth, maybe you can do the same thing, with the same concept.

Either way, good luck!

[moonshyne777]

Hi there,

The methadone wds stories I've read are exactly why I wanted to go on sub. But my doctor refused to even let me try and told me basically methadone or nothing. i started taking 2 10mg methadone a day (he has prescribed 3 but I kept it at two, when I took 3 I broke out in a rash and hives..I'm staying at 2!)

I would never recommend sub or methadone to a person unless they had tried cold turkey and tapers multiple times and felt their lives were at stake - which is exactly where I was at. There were some nights I was scared to go to bed because I wasn't sure if I'd wake up. Like I said above I went through the most horrible wds jumping off 100+mgs a day (I never could taper for my life) and made it through the wds but jumping from that dose PAWS came around to bite me bad and a relapsed a month in every time I did cold turkey.

I came across Gnarly, an awesome guy here who has experience in getting off methadone. My plan is to keep my dose low (still looking for a sub doc but it's like finding a needle in a haystack here in Canada!!) but going on methadone has helped me in that I don't crave more methadone, in fact I take less then I should and put up with some rls and cravings, I have not touched an oxy since I started and doc was pleased and let me have a weeks supply right off the bat when my first UA came back clean. (The rules here are that people usually have to go every day, but he made an exception because he sees how serious I am and have not had one dirty UA since starting.)

The methadone has let me put my active addiction into remission, albeit temporarily, but time to get a strong support system in place (started NA meetings and have a therapist lined up now) and I am going down in my dose a little bit every week. i could never taper for my life on oxys but this stuff is different. I don't crave "more" don't get high and although I do crave (I'm not on a high enough dose to kill cravings or even all the wds, have some rls but I don't mind, its better then upping the dose) I'm not sitting around snorting pills all day slowly killing myself and spending absurd amounts of money on oxy and it's given me a chance to get my **** together and get a solid plan in place.

I'm going to make this work and it feels good to not be chasing pills anymore. Like Gnarly said, as long as I keep the dose low and don't stay on it long (I plan to be off of it by July 1st) then I think this is a route that can really work if I make it work. I had tried everything else to no avail but for the first time in a long time I have some real hope.

Thanks to all on here who have helped me along the way and never gave up on me and still continue to support me. This forum has helped me save my own life. I can't express the gratitude I have to those of you who reached out and gave me the help and support I need so much. God bless you all and I pray for everyone struggling to reach their goals no matter what road they take to get there.

[sapper281]

Just read your post gnarly . You are absolutely right about the protein shakes. I think that helps tremendously! Everyone just needs to keep posting what they think works. There is definitly things out there that make this easier. I dont know how many of you are kicking but theres 4 of us here in Mass. trying to make it happen. Lets do it!

[moonshyne777]

Thanks Gnarly,

I am going to send you a PM to ask you a few more questions about this stuff. Hope you don't mind.

[gnarly_1]

HI Moon you could use the methadone to do a quick taper off all narcotics it might work but just be really careful of how much time you spend on the methadone you dont want to have to deal with methadone withdrawals..as for PAWS I think it is just a side effect of being on narcotics all together it effects some and not others...I cant hit the lottery but I was lucky enough to get hit with PAWS it su@@s and you just have to deal with it the best you can...I drink whey protein shakes there loaded with vitamins and amino acids
as well as protein all of witch the brain need to heal you can get a 2 lb can up at walmart for 12 bucks and the chocolate flavor is good when mixed with milk I recommend it to everyone who is experiencing PAWS or if you know your predisposition to it give it a try it helps out a lot I drink 2 a day hang in there and you plan sound solid to get off the narcotics all together with the methadone just keep your dose down to 2 tabs a day when your ready to ween off I can get with you in the messenger and post you a taper schedule privately we no longwer post them in the open forum....good luck and God bless.....Gnarly      

[moonshyne777]

Another thought is to use this stuff and taper off opiates altogether and maybe PAWS won't kick me so bad as when I tried jumping at a high dose. I could never taper with oxy but this stuff is different. I think I could. Does tapering reduce the severity of PAWS do you think? It stands to reason that a shock to the system from jumping off at a high dose of oxy would cause way worse depression then a gradual reduction. Maybe I'm onto something, what do you think? I'd appreciate some feedback...

[moonshyne777]

I went in and started the methadone today. The jerk doctor prescribed 10 mgs 3x a day but I only took 2 and will only take two a day until I can figure this out and get a sub doctor who will prescribe me sub.  The methadone makes me feel light headed and just kind of foggy. Not high, just off. I don't like it. The only positive is that I haven't done oxy since this morning. I am feeling pretty crappy about this and am going back to my family doctor to talk to him about this. I'm hoping when I explain all this to him that he helps me.  

[sapper281]

I feel your pain. I have slowly become addicted to 30mg roxis. I know that feeling of helplessness and anxiety that follows. I am starting my subs today as well. I buy everything off the street so you can imagine how expensive it is. Where I come from Heroin and opiates have taken over. I always said I would never lower myself to "H" but all Im doing is the rich mans dope with the pills. I have detoxed so many times before so I know what to expect. A positive attitude and subs will get you through the worst. The hardest part is staying off. For a while when I didnt have percs I would bridge with subs. I have comepletely depleted my bank account down to my last $50 and am sick to my stomach about it. I wish you all the best in your journey. It only takes 3-4 days to get out of your system and you'll be ok (assuming your on subs) I have taken the subs for a week max and then stopped those and was fine. Youre habit isnt that bad either. I was taking in around 500mg of oxycodone a day. Tolerance is a *****! :)

Anyways good luck to you and to myself as well as this vicious cycle needs to end!

[moonshyne777]

Thank you gnarly!!!!

Im sitting here really not wanting to go on the methadone program this morning but since I was blindsided by the doc yesterday and have just 3 oxys left from my script and no money to buy myself more time(I borrowed money but that's for bills. I just refuse to buy anymore damn pills) I am going to stay on the methadone for a very very short period of time. A matter of days. I'm  going to call the pharmacies around me that stock sub and ask th to give me the names of some sub doctors as looking on the net I've come up with nothing. Canada is painfully behind in making sub accessible.  

[gnarly_1]

HI if your dose is below 20mg you only have to wait 24 hrs according to the sub physicians desk reference book we have looked this up b/4 its only 36hr if your dose is higher then 20mg and then they really stress you should try and move your dose down b/4 administering it...your ok on this one moon we have done the research
good luck and God bless.....Gnarly  

[moonshyne777]

I know what your saying tram and that's exactly why I insisted on sub. I'm scared of methadone too but I'm at the point where I don't know what to do. An idea I had was to start the methadone tommorow but in the meantime look fervently for another doc who will prescribe sub to me. If I were to only take methadone for a week or so (the amount of time I figure it will take to find another doc, with luck maybe sooner) would I still have to wait 36 hours to start sub? Gosh I hope not. This really ***** and i'm at the end of my rope here.  

[LeaAnn807]

YOU CAN!  Please, please, please give the methadone some thought.  I know you are distraught over this today, but maybe you could go and at least talk with another doc?  Just trying to help and don't want to offend you, but methadone scares me to death.  I have heard too many horror stories!  I just want everyone to be free of drugs and have a good life, and I'm afraid methadone isn't the way to get that!

[moonshyne777]

I do need pain management thats the thing but I was wanting to at least try sub and see how my pain was. I was denied that opportunity today by this doctor who strongly believes that methadone is the way to go. He wants to prescribe me methadone pills 10mgs 2 times a day. I'm left feeling like I have no choice left. I can't stay on oxys and I guess methadone is the lesser of the two evils although I wonder about that...

I guess all I can do is try the methadone and insist on being on as low a dose as possible. I don't want to be a walking zombie like I've seen some people on methadone on really high doses. This doctor really pisses me off. At the very least he could have let me try suboxone and if it didn't work out then fine but to not even have the chance to see really bothers me. The doctors here in Canada are clueless about sub for the most part. My own family doctor when i asked him about it had never even HEARD of it. WTF!! I still might go and see him later this week and talk to him about this and see if he can look into it for me. Thanks all, as usual you guys are a great support. I would have never made it through the last two detoxes I did without this forum. I really tried to stay clean but the pain and PAWS led me to relapse. I envy those of you who kicked pills and stayed clean. I just couldn't

[LeaAnn807]

OMG....all I can say is that I am sorry that this happened to you!  I understand your fear about methadone!  It's not the best news to get today, but try to keep your chin up.  I know it is hard!

[refusingbondage]

So sorry to hear of your situation.  In one way I can understand his point about it not being an adequate pain managment drug and suggest methadone. BUT the side effects that come with methadone usually are way worse than the benefits.  Did you explain to him you needed it for opiate addiction and not pain management?  

[moonshyne777]

I'm in Canada and there is no database for sub doctors. Just trying to find this one was a chore. I'm so angry he wouldn't even let me try it! He gave me some speech about "in good concience I cannot do it as I know it will do nothing for your pain blah blah blah.
In good concience he should know how nasty that methadone is. I don't know what to do. I am at a loss here.

[IBKleen]

Holy Cow! I am so shocked that doctors are still pushing Methadone.

I feel so bad for you. Did you go to the Suboxone website and look for another doctor? Please do. If you need help, let me know. I know many people that it has helped with the pain and if you are going to choose between the two, I have to say go Suboxone with the aftercare plan you discussed. I don't recommend it long-term as you will be right back in the same boat, but that is to be discussed with your prescribing doctor.

I hope you find someone who can help you.

[gnarly_1]

HI I was put on methadone for pain management it did work good for years but the side effects and then the brutal addiction that followed weren't worth the price of the relief  
I would find a different dr and still pursue the sub rout methadone is no way to live
good luck and God bless.....Gnarly

[dominosarah]

Is there anyway to find a different doctor?  I am sorry this happened to you.......sara

[moonshyne777]

I'm so angry right now I don't know what to do!! I went in expecting to start sub today and instead the doctor told me that because I  am a chronic pain patient I should go on methadone instead. I begged him to at least let me TRY sub but he said no that it wouldn't work for my pain. He told me to go home and research methadone for pain management and if I want I can go back tommorow and get on methadone. I am not comfortable with the methadone idea, I've no idea what to do now.

[dominosarah]

You have a good plan in place.  Take the time now to really work your aftercare.  Are you doing a short term plan with the Sub?   Let us know how you are doing okay?  sara