Suboxone - What happens if you relapse?

[DonRet]

What if you are taking suboxone and try to take opiates within 24 hours after your last sub dose and of course you don't feel the effects of the opiates because the suboxone in your body blocked it?  Do the opiates stay in your body or just get flushed out since they can't stick to your receptors?  Can you go ahead and take suboxone the next day and keep on with your maintenance or do you have to wait until withdrawal to start sub again even though you never felt the opiates and they were never able to bind to your receptors?

I was under the impression suboxone wipes all the opiates out of your system, and unless you wait long enough after your last suboxone (24-72 hours) dose you will not be able to feel anything from opiates.  If that is true then do the opiates that you tried to relapse with even stick to receptors in your body or do they just get flushed out as if you hadn't taken a thing and you ended up just "wasting" pain pills?  

How long would the opiates stay in your body if you had a drug test but were taking suboxone?

I know its stupid to even attempt taking opiates while on suboxone and you are only hurting yourself, but I am just curious about the facts, how the suboxone works and how it doesn't work.

[nursegirl6572]

I would recommend doing some soul searching about the Adderall.  While it may be prescribed, clearly you're getting more out of it than what it's prescribed for.  As for the sub, if you want to do this correctly, you must be maintained on a steady dose and give yourself some time to adjust from the DHC to the Subs.  It sounds like you're already planning to yo yo in between the subs and the DHC (or other opiates), which is going to only hurt your recovery.

Also, you have said frequently that you're not addicted to heroin or oxys, suboxone can be used for any opiate, and your usage was pretty significant.  While I'd like to see everyone give it a go without sub, once a person has chosen that route, they need to commit to the process, at least long enough where some work on the addiction can happen.  Taking subs for a few days honestly isn't going to do anything except stave off w/ds from the DHC (partly).  

I'm concerned about your thought process about this.  And your issue with the Adderall.  It still sounds very much like you're prepared to self medicate away symptoms of one issue with another drug.  It takes time to change your thinking for sure, but it sounds like your addict mind is still 100% in control, which is going to be very hard to combat in recovery.

I wish you the very best.

[DonRet]

I actually just started the subs but my DOC is a drug called DHC which isn't well known in the US and I don't know if I should let myself get on suboxone for DHC.  Most people take sub for Herion or oxy's and I don't really know how DHC compares, although I do take a rather large amount.  I just don't want to get in deeper than I already am and deal with having to withdrawal off subs in 3 months to 3 years from now.  I spent the last 3 days without taking anything but about 8mg of sub broken into two days.

I know about the precip withdrawals, I have taken the sub too soon and its put me in precip withdrawals but nothing crazy, I took some tramadol and it got rid of the precip withdrawals and then I just took sub the next day with no issues.

Whay ***** about my addiction is that its two fold, I take 25mg adderall as well (through a doc) and I don't really know which drug it is I crave more.  I don't really like the adderall when I am not taking an opiate, it makes me feel really malnourished and dried out, but if I take it with opiates or the day after opiates I like the rush it gives me in the morning, I don't know what the opiate does but it doesn't make me feel so strung out like you took 6 caffeine pills.  If I run out its very hard for me to get out of bed, even with opiates, so I think I need to address the adderall first and then the opiates.  I didn't take adderall today and I actually didn't crave it, maybe that was the suboxone still in my system, not sure if it hits those brain receptors that adderall also hits.  I went to the gym even for a quick workout.  I start work tomorrow and want to see how I feel, I won't take the adderall but I don't know if I will take sub or not, just depends on how I feel in the am.

I was able to quit pain pills before adderall without a problem, I had withdrawals but I battled through.  But I have been trying to stop both at the same time and its torture on my depression.

I am just confused on how to tackle this combo, I have a great job and the goal is not to affect that.  I would love to sit in inpatient rehab for 30 days to get off everything but thats not an option unless I lose my job or quit.

The last time I was able to quit both (although it wasn't long) I basically weaned myself down to low level opiates like kratom or low doses of tramadol.  It still sucked, but it was doable.  It didn't last long though but a lot of that was because I just started a new job as a Team Lead and was under a lot of stress to get projects finished.

[EvolverU]

Hi there & Welcome,

Are you getting your Subs as part of a detox plan or were you using them recreationally? Did you start using them to detox & not give them enough time to reach a 'steady state' blood level ? (takes a couple of days to adjust to them) This sometimes happens where people crave the high of a full agonist (painkiller) like Norco b/c Subs are only a partial agonist & therefore don't supply the same euphoria for heavier users. So, people don't give them a chance to work & use opiates soon after.

What Weaver said is absolutely true. Yo-yo'ing between these drugs is dangerous in two senses: The very real potential for an overdose (even though you might not feel high) & an increased level of addiction. Also, if you did something like, say, used Norco alone for say three or so days & then did subs again & weren't ill enough off them you could throw yourself into Precipitated w/d's.

If you were a frequent user, the average transit time for opiates in a urine test is 5 days. Subs will not change this. Also, they might test for the sub itself (not sure how in depth the test is). So, what's going on? Can you tell us what your plans are? Are you trying to get clean?

[clean_in_ks]

Are you still taking tramadol with your subs, Don?

[weaver71]

The opiates don't cover more receptors, once they are saturated, but the drugs to accumulate in your blood. The reason buprenorphine works to block other opiates is two fold, primarily it is because subs are so much stronger than other opiates they have no effect, the other is the high affinity of suboxone to the receptor sites themselves. So, depending on what dose of bupe, is how much one would have to take to be stronger. If I took 40mgs of norco an hour after I took 200mgs of methadone, I wouldn't feel it. The tricky part is OD, while subs cannot cause an fatal OD, taking enough other opiates could cause and OD before one feels their effects on the brain. With the long half life of sub, one day is not long enough to detox the accumulation of the last few weeks of bupe. I don't think precipitated withdrawal would be possible in such a short time. Just my opinion of coarse. What I really think is, use the sub to form a plan and get on that plan. Devote to it, good or bad, a plan followed through will work. Be careful mixing them up and changing doses a lot, sub can really mess with ones head.