Suboxone...good physically, bad psychologically???

[VOsRose]

Here's a question for anyone who wants to contribute an opinion or experience...

I started Suboxone for detox on Wednesday and am now into Day 4 of detox with absolutely no withdrawal symptoms.  I am on a 10-day rapid taper on the Suboxone and the end results of that remain to be seen, but right now I'm awed and amazed with this drug and it's ability to totally alleviate the pure hell of withdrawal.  I can say that, at the dose I'm taking, I have not experienced any "high" or "buzz" from the Suboxone...no effect, in fact, other than feeling like I did when I was sober.  There is no up/down, strung out feelings involved.  However, last night we were getting ready to leave to eat and I caught myself heading to my purse to take some pills because I knew I did not have the "warm fuzzies" so must be time to pop a few.  I stopped in my tracks...Wow!  That got me thinking...is it a good idea to give an addict an "out" if you will of the consequences of their abuse?  I wonder if we don't benefit more and learn more from each relapse if we are forced to suffer the consequences.  

Please don't get me wrong and think I'm advocating suffering for anyone, because I'm not.  I'm the LAST person who ever wants to deal with the horrible reality of c/t withdrawal...I've done it too many times and didn't think I was going to survive the last time, but I have to wonder if we're given a "free pass" so to speak, does it help us in the long run with our addiction and addictive behaviors when we have suffered none of the physical consequences of our actions?  

Not sure if I'm getting across what I'm trying to say...only, last time I detoxed I was so sick that I actually HATED my DOC and the thought of taking any NEVER crossed my mind...I thought if I just lived through this I'd never use again.  Of course, I did which is why I'm where I am now.  But the thought of taking pills never crossed my mind for quite some time.  This time, I'm barely into Day 4 and reaching for the pills...and NOT because of craving, but because of routine (or one of the psychological components of my addiction.)

Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts on this I'd love to hear them...

Peace

[wait2long]

the reaching for pills before leaving the house is the addictive behavior sub helps by giving you the time to retrain your thinking, but combined with therapy...
these are the habits that need to be broken...
good luck rosie!!
you can do this...
xxxooo

[VOsRose]

I hear you.  I've just read so much and done so much research on the Sub route and I'm really, realy scared to do a very long gig on Suboxone.  I'm very motivated to get off of these things and hope this is my last time doing detox.  I've done detox so many times I can't even count...4 times (this being my 5th) medically supervised.  The first 4 times in the hospital, this time outpatient.  It just FEELS so different this time...both physically and psychologically.  I don't know...

[kezza27]

Talking from past experience just dont set yourself up for faliure. It can happen when you go clean to quick. Ive done it once cold turkey now on 32mg suboxone, feelin for ya. Good luck.

[poetrygirl1960]

Hey, thank you so much.  Words of encouragement like this is why I keep coming here everyday!  I think you are right, you have to be sick of yourself, sick of the pills, and sick of where your life is.  I SO hope this is really my time like I feel it is!

[BornTwoRiff]

you are probally going to be very successful also...  I think a person just has to be sick of using pain meds to want to quit and stay quit..... I think the sub meds are wonderful..

[poetrygirl1960]

I have to go with the opinion that what take away w/d is a Godsend.  I don't feel guilty at all for being on suboxone and buffering my w/d.  I suffered enough all the times I tried to quit before, going 1 to 2 weeks c/t or trying for a month to taper was NOT for me.  I couldn't stay on that plan.  So now I have found one I can work with and I'm not taking my doc or even want to and I have that much more time to focus on the changes in my life, and think introspectively.

[BornTwoRiff]

good point but you answered your own question.... you suffered once and still went back.. I think people have to work with someone on why they are doing this and work on that area of their life after getting off these meds...I think a medication that will take away w/d is God sent.   I also think when a person is ready to leave these behind they will..some never will .. but some will after the first time they get off them.... I not a part of the school of the more you suffer the more likely you will never use them again...

[VOsRose]

I'm supposed to cut from 8 mg. to 4 mg. tomorrow for 3 days, then down to 2 mg. for a couple of days and then  1 mg. for a couple of days for a total count of 11 days counting the first day, or the induction.  I'm already 4 mg. behnd the schedule because they gave me 12 mg. the first day and I only took 8.  I have experienced no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever - well...that's not true.  I felt it coming on Thursday (day 2) and yesterday (day 3) and went ahead and took my 4 mg. and it stopped it.  Today I feel fine.  I took my 4 mg. this morning and may take only 2 mg. later, depending on how I feel.  I guess i can take 2 and then, if I feel anything starting, take the other two.  I'm determined not to take any more of it than I feel I need to.  And I'm not going to go past the 11 day mark no matter what...even if I do start to experience some withdrawal...hopefully, if that does happen, it will be mild enough to tolerate, because, frankly, that's the only option.  

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences and insights.  The whole "reaching for the pills" thing just threw me last night...I can say for sure I wasn't having a craving...just habit.  And I think it;s just because I'm feeling TOO normal, if that makes sense...my brain new I didn't have a buzz, or more accurately, didn't feel strung.  I actually never get a buzz anymore.  I guess I could have increased my intake and gotten to a point where I was getting a buzz again, but I would have quickly gotten back up the to 80 pills a day I was taking this time last year.  But, at 36 - 42 pills a day, 6 at a time,. I got zero buzz.  Only felt a little strung out.  

I'm just amazed that, at that amount of intake prior to the Sub, I'm doing so well on the dosages I'm taking.  I keep waiting for the bottom to fall out, but I'm almost at the end of Day 4, heading into Day 5 since I took any hydro.  

If anyone has any insight on that or words of advice or caution, I'm all ears...

Love to you all and keep up the good fight.

Peace

Rosie

[allaboutmary]

Wow that was a quick taper.  I'm down to 1/12 mg and going slowley. So far , so good.

[TJack]

I was on 8mg for 2 weeks, i think and then 6 mg for 6 days, 4 mg for 4 days and then 2 mg for 2 days.  that's where i got into trouble.  Thought i was going to lose my mind.
So, i guess i was on it for 26 days if i can add?   I went through an adapt study and very few people, they told me after the fact made it on that taper.  I told them it was too fast of a taper.  They also told me after the fact if i had taken a hydro, vic or whatever during the taper they would have extended me on a slower taper.  But, they didn't tell me till it was over which was probably wise.

[allaboutmary]

Your doing the right thing going to the doctor and getting therapy. I think its pretty common for us addicts to switch addictions.  What mg were you on when you stopped the sub ?  Did you do a long slow taper ?

[TJack]

Once i started the sub, i never thought of or had the urge to take a hydrocodone.  In fact i have never wanted one since either.  But, since i have gone from being an over eater, to hydro and now it seems that wine is my new downfall.  I haven't got my head back to normal yet and it has been 6 mos. since my last sub.  I am going to the dr. on tuesday and tell him what's going on.  Depression, anxiety, the sleep problem is on going and oh yes the wine.  I see some therapy in my future.  Good luck to you Rose.   Hope it goes well.  Be prepared that there may be some  withdrawals from the sub.   I was on it for 21 days and had 2 weeks of withdrawals.   Hopefully you won't go through that.
Keep posting. TJack

[avisg]

yes apap is tylenol

[allaboutmary]

I know what your saying , but I find this to be one of the best things about the suboxone. The first couple of weeks I was on it, I also caught myself reaching for pills that were not there. I don't really consider this craving I just did it purley out of habit.  I don't do that anymore. I don't run for pills when I get stressed either.  Suboxone gave me the chance to break these habits.  I have suffered through withdrawal many many times and do remember it well.  This was another reason I chose the sub.
I would recommend sub to people that have detoxed and relapsed  repeatedly.  Not to people really trying it for the first time.  I also think people considering sub need to do all their homework and know what to expect, and not to expect. I really think this is key.
I find it really works if you work it.  Hug,  Mary

[goldenarm]

Isnt apap like tylenol???

[avisg]

For you I think the sub was the best choice .I feared for you because of the amount of APAP you were taking in .Are you getting any counseling to help with the mental part?

[avisg]

I understand what you are saying ,for years I would you use other meds to skip over with drawls .I became a cycle for me that I stayed in for a very long time .For me (just for me ) I felt that I needed to go threw that withdrawl and the discomfort .There have been a few times that I have considered using that I have sat here and thought do I want to go threw that hell again .Nope .... I felt it was necessary for me to break my cycle.