subutex reduction

[viclon]

I have been on subutex for 6 years at one point was on .8 now i am up to 10mg and buying extra. After viewing this site i realise the bup is contributing to my symptoms of weight gain although I have a healthy lifestyle, exercise, bloating, isolation and chronic constipation. I plan  to start reducing and stabilize on 2mg. Any suggestions from people who have done it. As I see my doctor next week and I know she will suggest .8mg weekly. But I need some clarity in my life, to feel and enjoy and her way will take a few months.

Thanks for taking the time to read.
By the way I am in Australia and it amazes me the names are all different but the stories are so similar.

[salsinator]

ceiling effect means that sub will kind of plateu after taking about 32mg and there will not really be any increase in the effect or "feeling" that it gives you.  While sub does not really produce a high, some people claim to get a little buzz on it.  With a full opiate like Codeine for instance, the more you take, the more of a buzz, but also more side effects like constipation and shallow breathing you will get.  Sub does not do that, which is why it is considered to be safer than methadone for opiate addiction treatment - and considered less of a risk for diversion/abuse.

[viclon]

I live in Australia and we have got is so good. Doesn't cost to see the doctor, The system here means  I have to go to Pharmacy to get dosed, although I am on 5 take aways a week and they give me the 5 doses to have at home, and get dosed twice a week in the Pharmacy, the cost is $21 per week. The problem for tomorrow the pharmacist crushes up the subutex which means tomorrow I am going to have to spit some of the dose out as I don't want to take the whole 10mls.

What is the ceiling affect.

[worried878]

I know it seems as the doc's r not educated on this drug..or perhaps as u say some are on the money trail

Tolerence to sub happens..and dose grows larger just as with any narcotic..I used it off and on///not to quit,,,but to supplement when I was out of my hydro...at first 1 mg would hold me//maybe 2 mgs..I was a 100 mg hydro user....after a year of these 1-2 week cycles//it took 8 mgs and it would stop wd...but it was like i felt yucky..like the hydro made me feel and the reason i stopped..for the first few days when i used the sub i felt great..like i did on hydro in the beginning///sub can become another doc//and i realized this//so did not use it when i stopped the hydro..i actually preferred sub to hydro

TI dont think i was ready to stop and sub is not gonna make us clean...only a deep down need to stop and lots of aftercare..u gotta be sick and tired of being sick and tired//then u will let go...Sub can become another DOC in a heartbeat...A DOC is difficult for an addict to taper from...and not sure but if sub is becoming ur DOC//and this dr is not helping u taper off///then u will have to find another DR or taper on ur own....another choice, and since starting over with a new sub dr will often make ur pocket book bleed...finding a trusted one/a friend or loved one to dole them out may help lots...write out a taper..share it with this person..and give them ur pills...and cut off the supply//totally
I am not sure what ur original DOC or dose was....10 mgs of sub is bout equal to 200-300 mgs of hydro or oxy...hard to compare tho due to subs ceiling effect (read article in health pages if u r not familiar) most have no probs gettin to 2-4 mgs cos of this ceiling effect..the suboxone pharmaceutical company did a huge influx to sell their drug//neglecting to incude it is a macho narcotic with long wds  ..drs overprescribe this drug...a daily..or even an every other day dose is enuf due to the terribly long half life of this drugs...peeps dose twice a day (or more)cos they r used to taking pills to feel better//and this is the part we need to work on

keep posting

[salsinator]

My pleasure, I am very passionate about sub/bup and there is not a lot of help out there for people on it.  Docs here in the States still don't know a lot about it and unfortunately many prescribe it only for the money trail.  In the end, sub has its place and it did save my life.  It can just be a b!tch to get off for some, including me.  I am glad that you are seeing your doc - they are right about going slow, but dropping is much harder at the lower doses.  Keep us posted on how you do and feel free to message me anytime you like.  Take Care

[viclon]

Thank you, for taking the time to respond. That was kind of my plan,it is great to get reassurance.  I will be seeing my doctor next Monday, and I know she would want me to reduce .8 a week, but I can't wait that long.

[salsinator]

Everyone is different, but the half life of buprenorphine is quite long, 37.5 hours, so it takes about 48 hours before you would start to feel the effects from any kind of reduction.  Usually it is quite easy to drop down to 4mg without feeling much, if any, kind of withdrawal.  Try taking the 8mg dose for several days - I assume you are only dosing once every 24 hours?  That is best, although some docs have their patients dose in the morning and evening and with the long half life, it really should not be necessary.  Anyhow, take the 8 for a few days, then drop down to 6 and try that for a few days, then down to 4.  I can truly understand why you would want to drop, for many, including myself, bup can cause some sedation - I was always very sleepy during the day.  I was diagnosed about a year ago with RLS, which was the main cause - so once that was treated the sedation was much less.   Once you are stable on 4mg and you feel like you can drop down to 2, go ahead and just drop the 2mg, it should be fine.  You should probably consult with your doctor on this as well because he/she may be able to also give you a good taper plan that will work too.  

[viclon]

Thank you, I read your profile and agree this is an awesome site to get support as addiction is such a private battle. I'm feeling good about plan and goals due to this website. my goal is to stabilize on 4 or 2 mg before March as I go back to University.
Today I took 8mls today instead of 10mg of bup (subutex). Any suggestions of when to reduce again. As I said I am seeking clarity within my mind and fee the bup is not allowing me to reach my potential as a person.
So I would appreciate any feedback on how people have reduced and the pace at which it was done to avoid discomfort.

Thanks for listening

[salsinator]

Hi Viclon, welcome to the forum.  I was on suboxone, which is similar to subutex - only that is has naloxone in it to divert people from injecting it - taking as prescribed the naloxone is inactive.  Anyway, I was on sub for nearly 4 years and for most of that time I was only on 2mg.  It was not difficult to get down to that level and I was quite stable on that dose.  The problem was dropping below that dose when trying to quit.  When you get to that point, taper down to .25 - .5mg before you totally quit - quitting from 2mg is quite difficult and the withdrawal is much worse than regular opiates.  I ended up going through an 8 day medical detox to get totally off the sub.  Best of luck to you - enjoy your summer down there, it's freezing here on the east coast of the states today!