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day 12 suboxone
I'm about halfway through my routine of getting ready for work and i'm nauseous already. Does anyone know if it could be the amino acids? I talke them as suggested on the help pages, on an empty stomach with water...then i've also been drinking a small glass of prune juice in the am because of constipation...sheesh...its a vicious cycle. Didn't sleep too well, and man was i irritated last nite and grouchy. If i need to take a sub today i'm going to take only 1 mg. Does anyone have any advice for this irritability-and anxious feeling? I have ativan but i don't really want to take that on a regular basis....
I don't have anything to add but will a hug do? :-) Seriously, don't even take another minute to stress on that one pill. It's over. This is your life that you live one day at a time and like all of us, you might make a mistake, that's just being human.
I agree with worried that you will come out of this stronger than you have ever been so don't give up.
I agree with worried that you will come out of this stronger than you have ever been so don't give up.
We are pulling for you sincerely... I read your posts intently every day. You are taking the faltering steps to beat an addiction and that's huge! There's no way for anyone not to falter and struggle through each step under that weight.
Everything aside, any person that keeps struggling through each of those steps is doing the right thing - and will make it to the finish. That's just the truth, so I hope you can keep that in mind no matter how hard it gets.
Everything aside, any person that keeps struggling through each of those steps is doing the right thing - and will make it to the finish. That's just the truth, so I hope you can keep that in mind no matter how hard it gets.
u will be ok girl...i feel it in my bones!...when this is all over, u will be posting and feeling sooooooooo good...and helping others that r on sub...i know u will be ok
Dont' be ashamed , we all made mistakes....I know also that this med has not agreed with u, so hopefully u can taper slow, and be done...
I wanted to ask, did the sub block the percs??? just wondering about that....
hang in there, and start again tommorrow
good luck
r2r
I wanted to ask, did the sub block the percs??? just wondering about that....
hang in there, and start again tommorrow
good luck
r2r
thank you worried- i should have done what my dr said and take the 2 mgs when i start to feel the withdrawl.which is exactly what i felt this morning and i didn't do it. i am cutting back all my supplements to what they were before i started the sub, then, as suggeted i will add one back at a time. very frustrating- i don't feel like a strong lady worried : (
hang in there girl...do not get discouraged...u have come too far to turn back now...stick with ur plan and i feel for u...working thru all this is a challenge i know...u r a strong lady and dont forget that (:
no-they are not in my house-i'll stay away from where they are. i'm glad to get it off my chest and i am extremely tired today now.i think that the 2 mgs i was getting stable on and then i went and blew it..i should have just stayed on the 2 for a couple of more ddays, but i guess i will pick that back up tomorrow. Right now thats all i have the energy to say. But i'm so grateful for your kind words worried and Sablezen, and everyone
and u want to taper slow enough to where u dont relapse back to the pills as well....this is your plan and u need to stick it out girl...do it safely and taper slow ...talk to ur doctor and maybe u have a sub support group around u...there is one here in my city
There are going to be bumps in the road... And that bump is already in the rear-view mirror. Don't beat yourself up over it any longer than it took to speed past it. Try to resist that urge of stopping the car, getting out, and taking pictures of the bump...
I really think you should talk to the doctor about the Suboxone dose though. I don't want to pretend to give specific medical advice here, but I think it might be a good idea to get help finding the right amount to get stabilized on for 2 or 3 days before tapering.
I really think you should talk to the doctor about the Suboxone dose though. I don't want to pretend to give specific medical advice here, but I think it might be a good idea to get help finding the right amount to get stabilized on for 2 or 3 days before tapering.
i am sorry you are having a hard time...u have been uncomfortable thru this and it seems this drug has not agreed with u very well...i would keep on tapering and get off soon....i know this is a good drug for some but i do agree with the receptor site damage mentioned above so the possibility of PAWS, depression and getting ur nuerotransmitters working and receptor sites clean again after too much time on it...pm me if u need to talk...u have helped me with alot of stuff and i am here for u...take the aminos as tolerated and withfood if neeed be...i never had nausea from the aminos but if i am stressed i feel nauseated and it sounds like u may be a little mad at urself today...keep ur chin up...i would take the aminos and i could tell which ones were helping and those were the ones i took the most of..everyones chemistry is different...be safe girl....get rid of those oxys if they r in ur house,,,,K?
Thank you all for your advice and encouragement--and i can't believe what i did today. i was feeling so terribly bad this morning, i "found" a percocet and took a half of a one and took the other half a few hours later. it did help me to feel a bit better- i'm just kicking myself for doing it, i don't know why i didn't just take a sub earlier and wait to see if that helped. This has made me feel very down today, so, of course, more irritability and anxiousness...i just can't believe i did it..
Right, I'm tracking on what you are saying. I just don't understand when I see statements like 'This is because of the combined medications buprenorphine and naxalone and the long half life of buprenorphine.' Buprenorphine is just a partial agonist opioid. Contrary to being a 'strong' opiate, it's a rather weak opiate and is easily antagonized off of receptors. That's not to say it isn't any less addictive or has any less physical impact on the receptors (or else it wouldn't prevent withdrawal). But it doesn't really differ on the action to attaching to receptors compared to any other opiate. It just doesn't signal as much of a change to cell activity as a full agonist does (hence less, if any euphoria). I've seen other statements made that it is for example '50X stronger than morphine'. In what specific way is it 50X times stronger? I'd like to honestly see the support or where these types of statements are coming from. Not because I'm overly skeptical and I'm not open-minded about it - I just haven't been able to find any support out there for such clear-cut sounding statements that sound like they came from a clinical test of some kind.
But I think we are in agreement that PAWS is more a factor of how long a person has been on opiates and beyond that, the level of behavioral and psychological one experiences over that increased time on opiates? I just haven't ever seen anything that links half-life as a direct variable to PAWS in any general way. PAWS seems to almost be unpredictable in how it will effect a person and its frequency and intensity. That's definitely not to say that your personal experience with PAWS wasn't horrible, but it's almost impossible to say if that intensity/duration of PAWS would have been any different for you if you had been on heroin for the same amount of time and use. See what I'm saying?
I've also seen statements that like 'When the doctor put me on this 4 years ago, she had no idea about this because Suboxone was supposed to be the new miracle drug and would be so much better than methadone.' Which is really concerning when even the product literature spells out specifically what it is and how it works. That is not an issue with the opiate - that is an issue of very poor understanding, use, or wishful thinking by the doctor.
But I think we are in agreement that PAWS is more a factor of how long a person has been on opiates and beyond that, the level of behavioral and psychological one experiences over that increased time on opiates? I just haven't ever seen anything that links half-life as a direct variable to PAWS in any general way. PAWS seems to almost be unpredictable in how it will effect a person and its frequency and intensity. That's definitely not to say that your personal experience with PAWS wasn't horrible, but it's almost impossible to say if that intensity/duration of PAWS would have been any different for you if you had been on heroin for the same amount of time and use. See what I'm saying?
I've also seen statements that like 'When the doctor put me on this 4 years ago, she had no idea about this because Suboxone was supposed to be the new miracle drug and would be so much better than methadone.' Which is really concerning when even the product literature spells out specifically what it is and how it works. That is not an issue with the opiate - that is an issue of very poor understanding, use, or wishful thinking by the doctor.
The reason why PAWS is worse with Suboxone is because it completley covers and cuts off the receptors. This is because of the combined medications buprenorphine and naxalone and the long half life of buprenorphine. To keep it simple, it's because it's so effective.
Forum after forum I have been to, people who I shared and have talked to, all have shared with me the same symptoms and results after being on Subx. for a long period of time.
Pretty much that you can expect at least a month of PAWS for each year that you've been on this medication and some people it lasted a year before they felt normal again.
Again, this is because your receptors are shut off, they stop working and it takes time before they not just start working again, but working normal again. It's like someone who suffers from anxiety or depression because their hormones and endorphins are off.
Your correct that for people addicted to other opiates for long periods of time, do suffer from PAWS. All I can tell you is that I have been on this medication for 4 years, and if I didn't experience this I wouldn't write about it. Every single person that I have ever talked to since I was put on this medication that has been on it for a long period of time as have I, have all shared with me that they have had the same long term PAWS effects. When the doctor put me on this 4 years ago, she had no idea about this because Suboxone was supposed to be the new miracle drug and would be so much better than methadone.
Trust me, even my old doctor is handling her patients differently now for these reasons because of the feed back she got back from her patients since she started using it.
Now I can't tell you about heroin or oxycotins because I was never self medicating or abusing any drugs and like I've said since I started posting here, I do not judge anyone because it doesn't really matter how one becomes dependent. We all suffer the same effects from these medications or substances.
All can tell you, is if your going to be put on Subox. because you were in pain management for a long time and you didn't have a serious dope habit or were taking opiate medications but were not taking 10 of them a day, don't let your doctor put you on a high dose of Subox. and don't stay on it for a long period of time.
You'll think your sober or not on medication and are thinking clearly but your not, your still on a very,very strong narcotic medication. After your on it for too long, you'll slowly start to lose interest in doing anything you used to love doing. It will take the love of life right out of you if you stay on it for too long.
For some people, it may be the only way someone can keep from going back to other opiates. If your going to detox with it and go back to taking something again, I guess it doesn't make a difference. But if your not in that position, this is much harder and longer to get off then if your doctor simply weans you off pain medication if you were in pain management for a long time.
It simply is not the miracle drug some doctors and people make it out to be. Maybe for a couple month detox, but not as a maintenance medication.
Forum after forum I have been to, people who I shared and have talked to, all have shared with me the same symptoms and results after being on Subx. for a long period of time.
Pretty much that you can expect at least a month of PAWS for each year that you've been on this medication and some people it lasted a year before they felt normal again.
Again, this is because your receptors are shut off, they stop working and it takes time before they not just start working again, but working normal again. It's like someone who suffers from anxiety or depression because their hormones and endorphins are off.
Your correct that for people addicted to other opiates for long periods of time, do suffer from PAWS. All I can tell you is that I have been on this medication for 4 years, and if I didn't experience this I wouldn't write about it. Every single person that I have ever talked to since I was put on this medication that has been on it for a long period of time as have I, have all shared with me that they have had the same long term PAWS effects. When the doctor put me on this 4 years ago, she had no idea about this because Suboxone was supposed to be the new miracle drug and would be so much better than methadone.
Trust me, even my old doctor is handling her patients differently now for these reasons because of the feed back she got back from her patients since she started using it.
Now I can't tell you about heroin or oxycotins because I was never self medicating or abusing any drugs and like I've said since I started posting here, I do not judge anyone because it doesn't really matter how one becomes dependent. We all suffer the same effects from these medications or substances.
All can tell you, is if your going to be put on Subox. because you were in pain management for a long time and you didn't have a serious dope habit or were taking opiate medications but were not taking 10 of them a day, don't let your doctor put you on a high dose of Subox. and don't stay on it for a long period of time.
You'll think your sober or not on medication and are thinking clearly but your not, your still on a very,very strong narcotic medication. After your on it for too long, you'll slowly start to lose interest in doing anything you used to love doing. It will take the love of life right out of you if you stay on it for too long.
For some people, it may be the only way someone can keep from going back to other opiates. If your going to detox with it and go back to taking something again, I guess it doesn't make a difference. But if your not in that position, this is much harder and longer to get off then if your doctor simply weans you off pain medication if you were in pain management for a long time.
It simply is not the miracle drug some doctors and people make it out to be. Maybe for a couple month detox, but not as a maintenance medication.
I'm curious as I've heard this several times... But where is it supported that PAWS is more or less severe from buprenorphine as compared to any other opiate like heroin or oxycodone?
I'm just trying to point out that PAWS is a fact of life for ANY addiction after detoxing and is generally thought to be more a behavioral/psychological manifestation of addiction as opposed to being dependent on any specific chemical... and accordingly varies more on the length of time one has been addicted to something and how intensely a person was impacted behaviorally while abusing a substance.
I'm just trying to point out that PAWS is a fact of life for ANY addiction after detoxing and is generally thought to be more a behavioral/psychological manifestation of addiction as opposed to being dependent on any specific chemical... and accordingly varies more on the length of time one has been addicted to something and how intensely a person was impacted behaviorally while abusing a substance.
Trust me when I tell you, don't take Subx for a long time. I've been going through hell after being on this for 4 years... I have been tapering for the last two and it's ruff. They start you on way too much because the doctors simply don't know. They started me at 20mg, it's taken two years to get down to where I am now. I'm on only a 1/2mg or .50mg and it's been hard the entire time.
When or if your on Subxone for too long no matter how slow you taper, you will get PAWS, or Post Acute Withdrawls Syndrome. It can take several weeks after you lower your dose and what you are describing sounds like what I have been going through.
You start to lower the dose, but it takes several weeks before it "hits". I know when it's coming because the first thing I notice, is certain smells start to bother me, then your sense of taste starts to bother you and then you get the whole irritability and anxiety, not able to sleep,etc,etc.
It just takes time for your receptors to get used to the lower dose. Then you will start to feel better.
But please, let me be the poster boy or example here for why people should not let your doctor keep you on this for long term.
I've been on it for 4 years.. I've been told I can suffer from PAWS for at least one month for each year I have been on it once I'm off. Some people it can last up to a year before your totally back to "normal".
This is something the Docs don't tell you, unless they have the experience and are honest with their patients. The difference with Suboxone, is after your on it for a long time, it takes that much more time before your receptors start working on their own again. This is what causes PAWS.
If you need anything, please write me because I am going through this too, and since I joined this forum, I have not heard from anyone that has been on this for as long as I have, which troubles me in one way, but if I can help anyone else, I'm here...
Hang in there...
When or if your on Subxone for too long no matter how slow you taper, you will get PAWS, or Post Acute Withdrawls Syndrome. It can take several weeks after you lower your dose and what you are describing sounds like what I have been going through.
You start to lower the dose, but it takes several weeks before it "hits". I know when it's coming because the first thing I notice, is certain smells start to bother me, then your sense of taste starts to bother you and then you get the whole irritability and anxiety, not able to sleep,etc,etc.
It just takes time for your receptors to get used to the lower dose. Then you will start to feel better.
But please, let me be the poster boy or example here for why people should not let your doctor keep you on this for long term.
I've been on it for 4 years.. I've been told I can suffer from PAWS for at least one month for each year I have been on it once I'm off. Some people it can last up to a year before your totally back to "normal".
This is something the Docs don't tell you, unless they have the experience and are honest with their patients. The difference with Suboxone, is after your on it for a long time, it takes that much more time before your receptors start working on their own again. This is what causes PAWS.
If you need anything, please write me because I am going through this too, and since I joined this forum, I have not heard from anyone that has been on this for as long as I have, which troubles me in one way, but if I can help anyone else, I'm here...
Hang in there...
I like you nickname It reminds me of me.. If your on day 12 then DO NOT take it past a month.. The Dr. will tell you its ok but its really not.. The sub. tends to stick and stay stuck to your receptors for way longer than 3 days and thats from experience....bolpak
I know for me that even though I am only taking sub for a total of 20 days, after the first 4 or 5 days I really, really wanted to drop my dose way down and get it over with due to the sub making me feel nauseated and also because of all the negativity has freaked me out some but I managed to stay on course and haven't upped or lowered my dose at all. I am day 14 now and my dose was 3mg. today. Tomorrow I will drop down to 2mg for two days, then 1mg for two days, and then .5mg for two days and then will be finished.
The nausea stopped a few days ago and I have had no withdrawal symptoms at all except when I dropped from 5mg to 4mg, my left calve ached a tiny bit for a few hours and my hands felt a little swollen...not really even worth mentioning. I hesistate to say too much because I want to see how I do on these last few drops in mg. and then after I am off completely for a few days I will be able to give a better opinion.
Toomanytimes, I have been following how you are doing since we both started around the same time and I so hope you start feeling better soon. I wonder if Sablezen might not be right about dropping mgs. too fast and you could be having withdrawals? Maybe ask your doctor and see. I know you are so ready to be done with this.
Hang in there! Lyn
PS> I have been adding amino's in slowly seeing how they affect me. Are you taking the ltyrosine? It has helped my energy but you have to be careful how much or you will get the jitters...or at least I did. On the 5htp, yesterday I took two with no side effects except weird dreams and I just took one today. I think I will stick with one per day for now. Lastly, vitamins make me kinda queasy too on a empty stomach but I think I am just sensitive to everything. hugs!
The nausea stopped a few days ago and I have had no withdrawal symptoms at all except when I dropped from 5mg to 4mg, my left calve ached a tiny bit for a few hours and my hands felt a little swollen...not really even worth mentioning. I hesistate to say too much because I want to see how I do on these last few drops in mg. and then after I am off completely for a few days I will be able to give a better opinion.
Toomanytimes, I have been following how you are doing since we both started around the same time and I so hope you start feeling better soon. I wonder if Sablezen might not be right about dropping mgs. too fast and you could be having withdrawals? Maybe ask your doctor and see. I know you are so ready to be done with this.
Hang in there! Lyn
PS> I have been adding amino's in slowly seeing how they affect me. Are you taking the ltyrosine? It has helped my energy but you have to be careful how much or you will get the jitters...or at least I did. On the 5htp, yesterday I took two with no side effects except weird dreams and I just took one today. I think I will stick with one per day for now. Lastly, vitamins make me kinda queasy too on a empty stomach but I think I am just sensitive to everything. hugs!
It's definitely something to consider that the nausea may be being caused by something else. A lot of supplements cause GI issues in people. If you've been taking the supplements at a certain time during the day, try switching the time you take them and see if that effects when the nausea hits its peak. I would also cut the amount of any supplements I'm taking in half and see if there is improvement.
But at the same time, I would tend to think like cathy - a lot of that may be from tapering quickly (anxiety/irritability). If you only take 1mg today and the anxiety/irritability/restlessness continues to increase through tomorrow and the next day I would think that's a good sign that it is a result of a withdrawal.
I know there has got to be a feeling of wanting to rush and want to get off of the things. But going too quickly can be just as counter-productive as not going fast enough.
If you can't make sense of your reactions when upping and lowering your dose - I'd insist on getting feed-back from the doctor directly (tell them to have the doctor call you, work you in, or at least get put on a stand-by list for any cancellations).
But for now, I'd stay with doing what you want with the 1mg and see if those symptoms increase through tomorrow and the next day.
Curious, have you been keeping your daily amount within 2mg of the day prior?
But at the same time, I would tend to think like cathy - a lot of that may be from tapering quickly (anxiety/irritability). If you only take 1mg today and the anxiety/irritability/restlessness continues to increase through tomorrow and the next day I would think that's a good sign that it is a result of a withdrawal.
I know there has got to be a feeling of wanting to rush and want to get off of the things. But going too quickly can be just as counter-productive as not going fast enough.
If you can't make sense of your reactions when upping and lowering your dose - I'd insist on getting feed-back from the doctor directly (tell them to have the doctor call you, work you in, or at least get put on a stand-by list for any cancellations).
But for now, I'd stay with doing what you want with the 1mg and see if those symptoms increase through tomorrow and the next day.
Curious, have you been keeping your daily amount within 2mg of the day prior?
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