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low dose naltrexone for subutex paws
ok a little history first, 10 years on herion and 6 years on subutex. Went from 12mg to 4mg to 0mg. Went in a 5 day detox (detox 5, uk). It was a little expensive, but for me it was worth doing because my sub use was starting to effect my work. wow looking back i do not know how i kept my job through a 10 year smack habit, My breakfast used to be a bag and a joint hehe. Any way, the detox itself was quite easy, i did not even vomit or have diarrea. So they must have there meds right now. (When i first went in a few years ago, it was a different story, i ran out of boxer shorts hehe). What they do not tell you at the end of the detox, is that the next 3 months can be hell for long term sub users. Before i left i had a 3 month Naltrexone implant put in. Would i recommend a implant? well yes and no. No because i felt really depressed for the 3 months i was on it, but a lot of that could of been because of the detox. Naltrexone blocks your own natraul endorphines as well as all opiates. Yes, because it guarantees that you will get 3 months clean under your belt, even when you think you cannot take anymore.
So its been 4 months now, still not 100% because of paws, if i look back its not half as bad as it was. The deep depression has gone, energy slowly coming back, sleep starting to get better. Not really want to wait another 4 months to get 100% better.
So thought i would try low dose naltrexone at night 2mg, i tried it for 3 nights, well i was surprised, By day 2 i felt good again, not 100%, but 90%. (At low dose's, it blocks your endorphine receptors for a few hours, so when it wears off your brain is meant to compensate and produce extra endorphines eg 300%.). I had high levels of energy and my motivation had come back. As an experiment i stopped and 2 days later everything went back to normal eg energy and motivation a little low. So i can report it does work for the short term.
Has anyone else experimented with ldn for paws, i would like to here how you got on long term? I stopped because as we all know, you do not get pleasure for free, there is always the day we have to pay it back 10 fold. I remember thinking subs were wonderfull at first, how wrong was i hehehe.
So i was wondering if ldn gives you a endorphine hit through out the day, i guess your body would get used to this, so does paws come back after you stop taking it? does it make paws worse? How long does it work for? before our brains get used to the higher endorphines levels?
Also how long there paws last for? meant to be going on holiday with my girlfriend soon, but not really want to go if i still have paws. Oh one last question, has anyone been drinking when in paws, does it make it worse? thanks
P.S My friend did a sub detox but did it the taper method, i think this method is a lot better for paws, as it gives your body and brain time to adjust. He reports feeling fine now.
So its been 4 months now, still not 100% because of paws, if i look back its not half as bad as it was. The deep depression has gone, energy slowly coming back, sleep starting to get better. Not really want to wait another 4 months to get 100% better.
So thought i would try low dose naltrexone at night 2mg, i tried it for 3 nights, well i was surprised, By day 2 i felt good again, not 100%, but 90%. (At low dose's, it blocks your endorphine receptors for a few hours, so when it wears off your brain is meant to compensate and produce extra endorphines eg 300%.). I had high levels of energy and my motivation had come back. As an experiment i stopped and 2 days later everything went back to normal eg energy and motivation a little low. So i can report it does work for the short term.
Has anyone else experimented with ldn for paws, i would like to here how you got on long term? I stopped because as we all know, you do not get pleasure for free, there is always the day we have to pay it back 10 fold. I remember thinking subs were wonderfull at first, how wrong was i hehehe.
So i was wondering if ldn gives you a endorphine hit through out the day, i guess your body would get used to this, so does paws come back after you stop taking it? does it make paws worse? How long does it work for? before our brains get used to the higher endorphines levels?
Also how long there paws last for? meant to be going on holiday with my girlfriend soon, but not really want to go if i still have paws. Oh one last question, has anyone been drinking when in paws, does it make it worse? thanks
P.S My friend did a sub detox but did it the taper method, i think this method is a lot better for paws, as it gives your body and brain time to adjust. He reports feeling fine now.
Hi All, I wanted to post a up-date about my progress, its 14th November, So 10 months since i did my subutex detox. WOW what a change, lifes good again, energy back to normal, depression gone. Its taken a long time, but it shows your brain can recover, it just takes a long time if your on the subs for a long time. I would say im 90% better, i can sometimes feel the paws a little, eg a little foggy in the morning, but its in the back ground, So maybe a month or 2 for it to clear up completly. But now its not a problem.
Oh i did want to say, its best to keep away from alcohol, which can make paws worse because it stimulates simular pathway as opiates in the brain. Oh and never, never dabble, I had one bag on the 6 month mark, made the sneezing come back and i could not get a good night sleep for a month. So it shows how easy an addicts brain can be reactivted.
So there is light at the end of the tunnel, it very very hard, but it can be done.
Good look all.
Oh i did want to say, its best to keep away from alcohol, which can make paws worse because it stimulates simular pathway as opiates in the brain. Oh and never, never dabble, I had one bag on the 6 month mark, made the sneezing come back and i could not get a good night sleep for a month. So it shows how easy an addicts brain can be reactivted.
So there is light at the end of the tunnel, it very very hard, but it can be done.
Good look all.
Thanks for your comments, i have decided not to do ldn again. Feel ok now. Still have a little paws, but seems to have nearly gone. The depression has gone, which was the main issue for me. So it has taken 22 weeks to feel better. Thought i would never get better lol, seemed to go on forever. How much sub are you on now?
I took the lose dose naltrexone too. Didnt help too much for me. I do agree it does make paws a little longer, anything does I think. I took a ultra low dose and messed around with the dose for a while, something like 4.5mg of ldn and 0.5 ldn. None of it made any difference, it decreased my sleep and made me more depressed. The most I got was half hour of endorphin rush and then down from there, its worse when you stop because then you have to start all over again. I would stay away from ldn if I was anybody else. From experience it doesnt really help at all. Am from the UK and I made ldn from 50mg of naltrexone tab. Am back on subutex now and tapering again, before I only tapered to 1mg, I had paws for about 1 month and thats where I jumped on ldn, am going to taper low on sub and excercise, thats my only hope.
20 weeks is really nothing compared to the years we took drugs/opiates/suboxone/methadone etc...We really cannot expect to recover in 6 months or even a year after a long term use of opiods, particularly long ones such as methadone and suboxone.
My energy, mood and over all wellbeing always increased a little when I took the low dose naltrexone but it only lasted a few days, on top of that it made it worse when I stopped. Seriously folks your only wasting your time and resources in taking the LDN as you will need more days and weeks to recover once you stop the LDN. I know this from experience trust me. You rather let yourself naturally come back on the level then a substance, espeacially when it's only going to set you back. Why digest something which you know will extend your PAWS, why digest something which you know will stop working after a few days. Those few days of boost will stop and then you have to start all over again.
20 weeks is not even half way through to be honest considering how long you was on substances, so we cannot expect to be shocked that we ain't recovered, it takes time and all the time we digested drugs and opiates it will obviously take us a long time to recover too. Years and years of drug use affects our receptors so like I said you cannot expect to recover in less then a year, we gotta be realistic. But we can do things to help our recover such as changing our mentallity, being strong minded, be nice, being open minded, doing some excercise, occupying our time, spending time with the girlfreind and family. I say am lucky in that sense as my Girlfriend has always been there, we also got a daughter together too and we both got lucrative jobs too so that helps, am still in my early to mid 20s so in a way am way better off then some folks older then me. We got our own house too and we don't have no financial worries or anything, so this aids recovery, reduces PAWS. I notice if I work out I don't have any restless legs.
Please note I've quit methadone and suboxone, I think I made a typo error when I said am on methadone, am not. I went on methadone, then suboxone, then LDN, then a short acting opiate and then took some clonidine-lofexidine. I know if I was feeling sorry for myself, if I was alone, if I had no job, no beautiful Girlfriend, no Lovely Dauhgter, no income etc then my PAWS would have been worse. Trust me things like this make a hell a lot of difference..
.PAWS also depend on the traits-personality we folks have, for example there are folks who are very tempremntal, very stupid and bitter and tend to suffer longer PAWS, there are people who relapse t oo easily as they are weak minded, there are people who are overweight, insecure, really shy etc and this gives them lot of anxiety and low mood..It all depends on an individual..My hardcore PAWS lasted only a few weeks to a month, but like I said I changed my mentallity, I keep busy, I dont take no medications, I do sports, I research on the internet etc all this helps PAWS tremendously..Try to reduce any issues you have in life so you dont have to worry about anything!
My energy, mood and over all wellbeing always increased a little when I took the low dose naltrexone but it only lasted a few days, on top of that it made it worse when I stopped. Seriously folks your only wasting your time and resources in taking the LDN as you will need more days and weeks to recover once you stop the LDN. I know this from experience trust me. You rather let yourself naturally come back on the level then a substance, espeacially when it's only going to set you back. Why digest something which you know will extend your PAWS, why digest something which you know will stop working after a few days. Those few days of boost will stop and then you have to start all over again.
20 weeks is not even half way through to be honest considering how long you was on substances, so we cannot expect to be shocked that we ain't recovered, it takes time and all the time we digested drugs and opiates it will obviously take us a long time to recover too. Years and years of drug use affects our receptors so like I said you cannot expect to recover in less then a year, we gotta be realistic. But we can do things to help our recover such as changing our mentallity, being strong minded, be nice, being open minded, doing some excercise, occupying our time, spending time with the girlfreind and family. I say am lucky in that sense as my Girlfriend has always been there, we also got a daughter together too and we both got lucrative jobs too so that helps, am still in my early to mid 20s so in a way am way better off then some folks older then me. We got our own house too and we don't have no financial worries or anything, so this aids recovery, reduces PAWS. I notice if I work out I don't have any restless legs.
Please note I've quit methadone and suboxone, I think I made a typo error when I said am on methadone, am not. I went on methadone, then suboxone, then LDN, then a short acting opiate and then took some clonidine-lofexidine. I know if I was feeling sorry for myself, if I was alone, if I had no job, no beautiful Girlfriend, no Lovely Dauhgter, no income etc then my PAWS would have been worse. Trust me things like this make a hell a lot of difference..
.PAWS also depend on the traits-personality we folks have, for example there are folks who are very tempremntal, very stupid and bitter and tend to suffer longer PAWS, there are people who relapse t oo easily as they are weak minded, there are people who are overweight, insecure, really shy etc and this gives them lot of anxiety and low mood..It all depends on an individual..My hardcore PAWS lasted only a few weeks to a month, but like I said I changed my mentallity, I keep busy, I dont take no medications, I do sports, I research on the internet etc all this helps PAWS tremendously..Try to reduce any issues you have in life so you dont have to worry about anything!
ldn update,
My mood and energy have increased a little today and the fog has nearly lifted.
So it looks like for me ldn gave me a boost, but like any drug, You have to pay the piper when you stop. Not sure what would of happened if i had stayed on it long term, but not willing to take the risk of putting my paws back. Its not that bad now just a little rls at night, small amount of anxiety, mood a little low but not depressed anymore, so looks likes things are improving, just very slowly.
Its funny how ldn can put you in a fog, i have read other people have this symton to.
My mood and energy have increased a little today and the fog has nearly lifted.
So it looks like for me ldn gave me a boost, but like any drug, You have to pay the piper when you stop. Not sure what would of happened if i had stayed on it long term, but not willing to take the risk of putting my paws back. Its not that bad now just a little rls at night, small amount of anxiety, mood a little low but not depressed anymore, so looks likes things are improving, just very slowly.
Its funny how ldn can put you in a fog, i have read other people have this symton to.
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