see what i mean?

[groovygirl]

kell737 asks "You guys are probably going to think I'm stupid but what does snorting Oxy's do to you? How does it make you feel? ....Is it the same as swolling them? Just curious, I always too them by mouth."

groovygirl's answer to kell737 "yeah man, it's so cool to snort them...you get SO high - you see, they are time-released so when you crush them, the time release action is ruined and you get the full effect of the drug all at once. that is why so many teenagers overdose and DIE from doing it...yeah, that's how it makes you feel - SO cool....any questions?"

since i got so much **** when i brought this up before, is this more of the type of response you'd like from members of this forum?

[pon]

eye spill badd tew...bud eye lyke ewe...

sleep well spunk...we here for you...you can write if you want too

***@****

pon

[bmac]

Too funny girl.You know I don't judge you at all.
See ya in the morning,
                 peace,
                  bmac

[diso]

I am sorry to read that you feel so down on yourself right now.  I compare my life to yours and know that I have it easy.  This forum is interesting.  I have never posted to you put have read your numerous posts over the past two weeks.  Though we have never communicated to each other, I feel like I know a lot about you.  I was cheering so hard for you when you were making your run.  I was sad (NOT disappointed) to read that you needed to give in.  I am still using.  I am trying to taper.  It is going slower than I hoped.  I haven't relapsed just haven't stuck to my schedule.

Addiction really kills our self esteem.  I went to an ivy league school and have pretty much seen success in everything I have done.  I feel like this addiction is the first "challenge" I have encountered that is beating me.  I have always been the type that made up for my lack of smarts by working hard.  People around me have often commented that I have an uncanny ability to focus on a task and achieve it.  Not this time.  Addiction is kicking my ass.  But more than that it has wounded my soul and taken my essence of "life".  My self esteem is shot.  I have sunk into a deep depression and I hate myself.  I hate what I have become.  I hate that I need.  I hate that I have no control.  I hate that I am weak.  I hate that I lie to myself and to my family.  I f&*$%ing hate these pills.

BUT...people here have given me a lot of strength.  I don't feel so bad here.  This forum helps me know that despite my addiction, I still have some worth to me.  It helps me find those things about me that I like.  I try now everyday to just take a few minutes in the morning to point out to myself what I like about me instead of focusing on what I don't like.  By finding the good within me I am finding the strenght to do something about the bad in me.  I am not an eloquent writer.  Hate to say it, but I am not much of a deep thinker.  But I care deeply about people.  And I care about you.

I hope this pain you are feeling will pass.  I hope you can start finding joy within your soul.  Thank you for the encouragement you have brought us all here.

[athena]

I can really understand your pain.I haven't talked about this openly but I had an abusive childhood also.My Dad was an alcoholic and my mom ran off with his best frien.My dad then decided that we my 3 sisters and I needed foster care.My mom came and got us but then we were subjected to our HATEFUL stepfather who was molesting us all.Im sorry to go on and on but I wanted you to know how I have hated myself all these yrs.I felt ashamed and dirty,like I was wearing a sign that said I COME FROM TRASH!I married well,went to nursing school and tried to fit in with the rest of the world,but that voice inside(You probably know the one)kept telling me I deserved nothing except punishment! I turned to prescription drugs (I really had pain) but I used them to numb my mind.I did NOT want to think about my life.I was even cutting myself every day and going without food for a week at a time.I REALLY THOUGHT I DESERVED IT! wellhere I am 13 yrs after getting off pain meds on them again.They dont numb my memories any longer.I have been seeing a therapist for a few months now and I know that I am not where I came from or what someone did to me!6 days off meds and im trying real hard to get my self worth back.Maybe you could use that type of help also.You are so young with what seems like a a level head,spunk and compassion.You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

pixi

[peaz]

God, you sound so grounded and level-headed.  It sounds like you know what you have to do to restore yourself, and I think when the time is right you will do it.  Hanging around here will give you the desire and motivation.  I feel like you, though, while I've had some "unsavory" things happen in my life, when I look at others' situations, I have very little to complain about.  Your new custom of trying to find something about yourself each day that you like and build on it is a very good suggestion, and one that I'll adopt, if you don't mind.  I need to appreciate what I have; what's right under my nose; and I truthfully can only do that properly if I'm sober and not in my drug-induced fog.  Life isn't perfect being sober--I've got a long way to go and a lot to learn, but then, I'm not seeking perfection in ANYTHING anyway.  Inner peace and somr integrity once again will do me just fine, thanks.   Good luck, diso, and keep in touch.  You'll make 'er.
   Peaz

[pon]

Spunkmeister...I accept you for who you are, as you are and whatever you are.  Have since your first post...always will.  Did when you were sober, did when you were using, always will.

You have had a tough time, and a very difficult life.  No way to avoid saying that...and I know it sucks.  I have had a lot of bad in my younger days (I'm old enough to be your father too, 41, some like yours some different.

Allisa, I can't claim to understand everything you feel or have been through....but I can see certain things, others seem to have seen them too here.  Probabaly the biggest thing I see is that you have low self esteem....(I apologize for what I am about to say, because it is a hard thing), and THAT means that you do not like yourself very much.

Have you ever thought about that?  If it is true, why is it so?  I think it maybe turue, and I think you don't like yourself because you have spent most of your life being treated by everyone in your life as though they don't like you...as though you are not worth it.

What gives them the right to do that????  Not a damn thing.  You are a human being the same as everyone else.  Yes, you were a wild child, yes you have a drug problem...but everyone has faults, eberyone has problems...AND IT DOESN"T MAKE THEM WORTHLESS, irt doesn't make them not worth liking, loving and caring about.

You are 21 yaers old.  You have your life in front of you...you have done nothing terrible, you have not hurt anyone terribly, you have done nothing that makes you worth any less than any other person.

Try liking yourself...i don't know you, but I like you from your posts...maybe you could give it a try?

I know this is a long and rambling post...I'm tired and I'm not sure if I am making a lot of sense or getting through to you...so one more try.

There is nothing wrong with you.  You are a 21 year old woman who has some problems in hert life, hard problems for sure.  But, you are not bad, you are a human being like the rest of us.  Someone deserving of love, someone deserving of peace.  The thing is Allisa that, even though you deserve those things, you won't have them if you don't let yourself.  Let you like yourself...you are OK, there is no reason not to...try it...you may find many answers if you do.

When you know who you are, you know what to do.

pon

[Chezz]

Great post Allisa. It helps to let it out. I feel for ya. I know how it is. I have been there. I know how bad it hurts.

It hurts so bad to think about it. I can't stop crying. I hate this pain too. Sometimes I feel like I don't have anybody in life. I haven't talk to, or seen, my parents in years. My brother, well I guess he really isn't my brother. I haven't heard from him but twice in the last 10. I feel like I have LOST them, that they have already DIED.

Let it out Allisa. That is what this is for. Use it to your advantage. Get it out.

Some posts are so hard to write that I have gotten sick. It hurts. I hate it.
I'll write more later. I just can't right now.......
Chezz

P.S. You do keep it "spunky" in here.

[percsnomas]

Allisa, i definately am old enough to be your father; and from one of your first posts way back, i heard your crys for help.
What a courageous precious young women you are; yet "raw".
Spunky and truthful. Talking about masterbating to help with w/d, or what a rush these silly pills give us...again just being energetic and Truthful.
I'd wondered myself why the binging, when i can feel your desire to be clean and move on. It all takes time and Steps.
I'm just thrilled you keep coming back because, although i don't know you, you really have a lot to offer this world.
You described your lit'l sister as "still very pure"
I don't view you ANY LESS PURE because of self-medicating to numb some horrific/traumatizing events in your life.(plus the buzz wasn't bad either, i know)
WE ARE HERE FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[peaz]

Hi--I'm probably old enough to be your mother, but maybe I can be a friend/mother....Low self-esteem has got to be the common thread that binds all of us addicts.  It is the reason we self-medicate, abuse ourselves, which ,in turn, makes us loathe ourselves even more, so we take more pills, and on and on ad nauseam.  You have have a tough time in your most important relationships.  Their inadequacies are not a reflection of YOU--the way you've been treated doesn't mean that you DESERVE to be treated that way.  You are not worthless.  The fact that you want to do well in college, (stay in school!!!) that you want to clean up and make something of yourself tells me that  deep down you believe that success is possible for you, in spite of the odds.  Your weight is just a number, but I can relate to being over weight because I've been there, and I've been very thin, too.  The whole issue can quickly become the driving force in your life if you let it.  CEO's, Pulitzer Prize winners, or great artists aren't WEIGHED ...it has no bearing on their accomplishments.  Some how you have to tune out the negativity and listen to your own heart.  Do this for YOU.

[bmac]

Allisa first I accept you just as you are.I know all to well
what drugs can do to your body.I am 6'2" and in may of last year I was at 200lbs.That is slim for me,I too have always had a weight problem all my life.I was always bigger and taller than my same age friends.I even had to carry around my birth certificate just so I could play baseball and basketball in the same age group all my childhood.All the other teams thought I was older because I was bigger.When I started taking the methadone after surgery last year I began to gain weight and
as of this past August I had gained 55 lbs.At 255 I am still
me even though I don't like it, I too started slimfast.I eat one meal a day and it's suppertime,that's dinner to you northerner's.
Not you Allisa,I'm sure being where you are it's supper time.
A little humor does us all good.
As for the other,It is really terrible how so many people are abused growing up.I have never been in that situation before but I can only imagine that it does make one out to be a tuff
person.I could not imagine abusing my 6 year old daughter regardless of being drunk or not but I know it goes on and it is sad.If you are covering up that pain with drugs,you need help
dealing with it.But hey,I don't know **** about family abuse.
My dad was always too busy at work to abuse me or my family.I didn't see him that much the first 10 years of my life.He
worked for an insurance company and was in the beginning stage of computers,back when one computer filled up a room.I remember like it was yesterday him coming home with a arm load of IBM punchcards.You're too young to know about these I am sure but in the 70's computers where a thing of the future.Anyway I accept
you for who you are!!Always.As for your using,that is a call you
have to make.I don't judge anyone that feels that need.I have been there all to often myself and I know relapse.Just hang in there and stop listening to others about your weight and everything they say to you.Self esteem is something I have had to learn,like you I didn't have any until I met my wife in 1994.
Since I met her,she taught me it really is on the inside.She is a beautiful woman and everyone around said 'Bill' to her because she's 5 foot tall and gorgeuos and I'm 6'4 and got hair halfway down my back in a ponytail.Behind our back they called us the yuppie and the hippy.But one thing I have learned that until you start treating yourself as a winner,you won't be.It's what you demand of others that will make them respect you.Being 21 you are still a young-un.No offense.As the old saying goes,pull yourself up by the bootstraps and demand respect or move on.
Always here for you!I think you are wonderful and I have only seen your inside person,so there stop it.See yourself as I see myself.I am important and I like myself.God I sound like a Saturday Night Live character.something 'Smiley' I forgot his name.Let me know how your day goes.
                                bmac

[bmac]

I was lucky that night.My wife was so mad she was threatening to
kill me so the police where on my side.They even called someone to come and get me because they were afraid to let me near her.God,then she turned around and married my sorry ass.
I guess God had plans for that car,it was beautiful.I always think maybe it happened to keep her from wreaking it and getting hurt.ALL I got from it was a torn rotator cuff in my left shoulder from the seatbelt.
Well thanks for the laughs,I needed it today.
                                billy bass

[percsnomas]

holy ****... it is nice to laugh about this "past tense" stuff.
...unfortunately(or fortunately), i fled the scene, as it was broad daylight and clearly in an "honest booze i got no officer in my trunk" state; only to run out of gas 10 or 15 blocks later and grabbed by the police...

[bmac]

Yea,like the time I flipped my wifes brand new Saab convertable
end over end 4 times and totalled it.Can you believe 1 year later she married me?Been there done that.Isn't being able to remember dumb **** a good thing.I haven't thought about this in 6 years until I read your last post.A clean mind is a terrible
thing to waste.Hey that was a good one!!Man,even my sense of humor has returned.
                            bmac

[percsnomas]

...thanks for the great thread!!
I think if we really listen(not just hear) to peoples' experiences, a mountain of insight can end up staring us in the face, or "holy **** can i relate" feelings....
Agreed this place is way too easy to keep coming back to...especially when i'm supposed to be running an Acquisition & Divestiture group....oops don't tell my IT department.

Bill, the nomas is spanish of course for no more.
Remember the famous Roberto Duran/ Sugar Ray Lenord fight eons ago, when Duran was getting pumbled, and threw his hands up and quit, yelling No Mas, No Mas. That's how I felt about years of percs.. But i'm not hispanic, just studied espanol in university 20 years ago. Love Mexican food though.
Live up her north of 49 "eh"

[bmac]

You mean you did stupid stuff when drinking,no!
I really hope that neither of you got the wrong message from me about alcohol.It hasn't ever been a problem for me and it never will.I know you should never say never but I really don't like the way it makes me feel.nomas,are you hispanic?I only ask because I worked in a Mexican nightclub running sound for hispanic bands even though I don't know a word of Spanish.
It is wonderful how people can communicate with other things beside language.Every weekend I had a different group come up from Mexico and it was very rare that any of them spoke english,well I'm in the south and we speak slang not english so I had to learn body language.It worked.I worked there for over a year and love Mexican music.Of course I understand no mas.That's
an easy one.But when they started speaking  *&^#$#%^&*&(($%@#!%*
I had no clue!!
                               peace,
                               bmac

[bmac]

Now that's far too much info.I went from seeing you as a guy and now I see you sitting a the computer in your PJ'S. Stop it.
This forum is very addictive,but that is good because you are saying things that you are telling yourself anyway.Now you have others talking back.You are right about being straight.That
has been the reason for so much of my obsession the past 42 days.
It's like I can't be straight,I don't know how to be straight.
Before narcotics it was pot for me.I've been smokin' this stuff for 28 years,no ****.I'm 44 and I started at 16.actually I started smoking it at 14.That's 30years God no wonder I am so
screwed up.I never had a problem with it like stealing or
selling stuff to get it.I just smoked it when I had it.I did
stop smoking it for along time during the 90's because of a job I had, required drug testing.
I hope you stay straight.Because you need to find out how it feels to be on that natural high.It's not so bad.Keep me informed.
          bmac

[percsnomas]

Mr. Lee just visited our fair city of Calgary, Alberta(home of the '88 winter olympics/calgary stampede).
Hey you don't call driving my mint '69 Corvette Stingray(427) into the side of a house stupid do you??(remember i said USUALLY in control)

[peaz]

I think the most important reply from both of you was--I know, deep down, if there's a problem or not, and it's up to me to act accordingly.  And  you're absolutely right.  Wouldn't it be a shame to clean up my act of the narcotics and then fall prey to alcohol?  I need to learn to live STRAIGHT, for God's sake, and not feel persecuted beacuse I'm not high in some way.  And that's a tall order for an addict!!! ANd a scary one, too.  What??? You mean I have to feel and deal???? I need to find out what is so horrible/frightening about my life that I feel the need to medicate myself as a precaution.  This could take YEARS---will I live long enough???  So thanks to both of you for your wisdom.
     On another note, I find I'm becoming a slave to  this forum....I can't seem to get the things done that I'm wanting too...I should have worked out and cleaned the bathroom by now and I'm sitting here in my PJs (too much information???!!) having done nothing but type this morning.  But it's for me, and it's important, and it's helping me to stay sober.  So there.  (how's that for rationalization??  Have a super Wednesday!!! Peaz

[peaz]

Bmac, thanks for your long and thoughful post--I appreciate the effort you put into it.  So you assumed I was a guy and it just took you aback that I was female or what?  I've done the same thing before.  It's kinda funny how we come up w/ these mental pictures of the people on the board... Anyway, What you said about the professionals being obessessive (Too many esses????) is so true!! Jesus Christ!! Just because YOU were bouncing off the walls from booze and seeing in triplicate (all these counselors are recovering  themselves, you know) doesn't mean we ALL bear those consequences!!! It was as if they had tunnel vision/hearing and  any refutaion on my part was to no avail. ("methinks thou dost protest too much"!!!)  Now, Percs, this is for you, too--Since my Health Professional Program requires the three year clean stint, I have to go along w/ it, so it doesn't really matter what I think.  Like you said, Percs, this may be a blessing in disguise--the beginning of a new, clean "me" and that's cool!! I probably won't even WANT to drink at the end of three years, but I'm so stubborn as to insist on the RIGHT TO!!!!!  I have to be in total control of SOMETHING!!!!

[percsnomas]

As we've all said, so much of this is mental. Prior to this cunning opiate dependency, I was always Totally in charge of most every aspect of my life, including drinking(ok, except the time I got way too ripped and did...; and the time...). I've always felt I could take it or leave it, and believe me I think I've seen almost everything when it comes to drinking(my brother was a raging alcoholic for 22 years---now sober for 5 years. Oh we're not blood related, so please don't start thinking of the genetically predisposed part).
Anyways Peaz, I agree with you that the "experts" got it wrong with you, as pigeon holing tends to occur any time substance abuse happens. However, as there appears nothing you can do about it(the three years), try to turn it into a blessing in disguise, by not allowing your resolve and determination to be eroded. That is why I posted this question to Bill, cause I'm not really sure if and when boozing could/would "lead me down that evil drug seeking path". As far as fitting in to this world of drinkers, well for now it will have to be Cranberry and Soda(at least for me for a while)
I'm pretty sure we all know within ourselves what is a problem and what is not.

[bmac]

First off your a woman.I never really knew that,not that I don't like women don't get me wrong,I was just surprized.I like women.
Also I have been reading JSmith02 posts and I am still laughing at him.So be patient with me.
I don't want to go against what your professionals tell you.But
I don't believe for a minute that I am an alcoholic because I
have drank alcohol.I really feel some of these groups and I won't name names,I am in enough trouble around here already,
They are just alittle to obsessive about life.My wife drinks wine about 4 times a week.She is a responsible lady and has a very hard job.She is a nurse over an Operating room setting and works for one of the most famous neurosugeons in the country.
She does brain surgery I mean.Her and all her family get together
alot and drink and party and have fun.They wake up every morning,get up and go to work.They enjoy themselves.And for someone to say because they drink alot of alcohol they have a problem is ignorant.I play music and I am in bars alot playing.
Just about everyone of my band mates drink.They are responsible
adults that have fun and don't think they are alcoholics.
I hope you see my point,not everyone that drinks alcohol is an alcoholic.Regardless of what some groups will tell you.They just think everything is bad and you can't be normal if you do these things.They are just speaking for themselves because they have had a problem with alcohol and drugs.So to them it's all bad news.Now all you AA and NA people don't start judging me because I am not speaking of you as a group.Ya'll do great work and it is not you I speak of here.It's these so called professionals.
Peaz,if you have a problem with alcohol and it will make you start craving drugs again,then yes you have an alcohol problem.
I drank this past weekend and I haven't done that in a year and a half.It didn't make me do anything.I had fun and when I woke up my head hurt,just as it always does me.I didn't start thinking,man I wish I had some lortabs to go with this.I just drank and had fun.Now that's me and I would never tell someone
OK get drunk.I don't know you,but for me I just had fun and I most likely won't do it again.Unless I want to and can deal with the pounding headache the next morning.I can drink socially.I can't speak for you.And please to all the AA GUYS OUT THERE DON'T GET ON MY CASE ABOUT THIS.I have had enough ass chewings this week here and I know for a fact I don't have an alcohol problem so peace to you guys.Peaz,use your own judgement.If you had a problem before with drinking then don't, If it hasn't been one, have fun,just don't start craving drugs to go along with it.
This has to be the longest post ever so post back and tell me your thoughts on it.
                          Bill(bmac)

[bmac]

You mean the place that gave us 'RUSH'!!! Geddy Lee is one of my idols.I am a bass player.Never talked with anyone from above.I am as far as one can go south,except for people in Fla.I am in Alabama.Close to where the hurricane is coming.But hey,we are use to those thangs!!!And Mexican food,real Mexican food rocks!!!
                            bmac

[peaz]

Here's the deal: when I was coerced into treatment (either that or jail--guess which one I chose?) I was told that since I was addicted to vicodin, and I drank alcohol before and during my addiction, that I was an alcoholic.  Period. "A drug is a drug is a drug" is their mantra, and if I disagreed w/ them, I was in denial which just indicated how much I DID need help!!  No matter that it never caused me problems...I'd get drunk sometimes but like bmac said, I have never CRAVED a drink.  In fact, I had quit drinking a month and my 14 yr. old didn't even know I'd quit drinking--THAT'S how big of a problem it was....So now that I'm off of everything, I'm wondering how does one fit in to any social circles/events when there are cocktails EVERYWHERE??? I've been hibernating all these months, but it's getting old, and sooner or later my husband is going to want to interact w/ some of our old friends again.  Should I just make an attempt to be around drinkers and see how it goes?  It would be much easier if I thought I was a alcoholic and really shouldn't drink.  As it is, I only get pissed off  because I don't think I'm any different than the others in the room...

[peaz]

I have to get ready for work; will talk more about the booze/social problem later.  It's  something that's really impeding my mental recovery.
       Anyway, before I go--has anyone heard from Chezz today?  I'm worried, 'cause the last thing I think we heard was yesterday from his wife, saying what a hard time he was having.  Anyone have his email address so we can check up on him?  He has been so supportive of all of us--I think he deserves the same from us.     Peaz