still confused about going from meth to sub

[forgottensick]

Ok, since this is the only place I can get any help or info, I am asking you folks.  I have been on 40mg of methadone for 7 years. I`ve tapered down to to 25mg lately. Every place I`ve been trying to get some help or info has told me I need to switch to suboxone.  But then when I read up on suboxone it says it has a long half life and is hard to come off of..just like methadone. So if I`m not an abuser and getting off methadone takes a while and is hard because of the long half life, what is the reason to switch over to suboxone?  And it won`t help with my pain from what I`ve been reading. Wouldn`t it be just trading one demon for another demon?  I`ve also read what the Big Pharma has put out about suboxone but I don`t trust anything they say because they are all about money and will say anything to sell their products. Just look at all the people that have gotten sick or died from drugs they claimed were good for us. And doctors and clinics get a lot of money from Big Pharma so they will do and say whatever they are told. Who do we trust?  What do I do?  Everytime I tell somebody I`m not an abuser and still want to get off methadone, they say they can`t help me. I`m almost out of meds and wont be able to taper if I don`t get more. I have an appt to see a new pain doctor next week and I`m not telling him I am tapering to get off methadone. I`ll just play their game and get my meds until I`m off. Then I`ll just stop going.

[Elmijack15]

Yep that's the reality, it's big money for these doctors and they want repeat customers. I asked for refills and NO WAY cause they want the monthly charge.  Hang in there til you go..and it's ok to vent here we'll listen

[forgottensick]

  You hit the nail right on the head.

[Elmijack15]

And you're right don't mention anything about tapering if you want/can do it great, but after your experience with these doctors honesty isn't getting you anywhere. I'm on subs and get 8 mgs a day, I only take 4 and I'm planning to continue to taper but I'm not saying anything to my doctor. Mine is also self pay and expensive but at least insurance picks up some of the cost of the meds. The majority don't want you tapering because they lose the business!

[Elmijack15]

Then when you go to the new doctor tell him/her this is what worked for you and that you are self pay and can't be doctor shopping and would like to have them help you with these meds for your pain and depression. I don't know if I'd even mention the suboxone, just say your other doctor was more expensive than you could afford. With your background you shouldn't be treated as an addict looking to get drugs, but relief. Hang in there! Maybe, just maybe you'll find a good one!

[forgottensick]

This time I have ben on 20mg of Paxil per day for the past 18 years. But I have been on a lot of other stuff. At one time a shrink had me taking 100mg of Zoloft with 1350mg of Lithium every day. That was 3 years of my life I don`t remember at all. Before I got on methadone, my doctor had me taking 6 Percs and 4 Hydros every 4 hours and it wasn`t doing anything for my pain. That is what really gets me about this. I was only on 20mg of Paxil and 40mg of methadone a day. I didn`t want or need any more than that. It has been working fine for the past 7 years. I really don`t think I`m expecting that much from my doctors.

[Elmijack15]

I hear you loud and clear we have a friend in a similar situation but he has a bad heart and lost his job and his insurance and can't afford the meds to keep him going. Everyone has tried to pitch in and help him out. It's so sad and I feel for you. At least try to get back on the anti depressants, they will help you cope better and there's no reason a primary doctor, which isn't as expensive as a pain management doctor can't give you AD's. Some have samples and alot of AD come in generics now. What AD were you on?

[forgottensick]

Because I became disabled at such a young age I don`t have enough work credits to get SSD. They said they would give me $200 a month if I sell everything I own and spend it all so I don`t have over $3,200 in total assets. I`m 53 and don`t have much and will never get out of the hole if I give up everything just for $200 a month. Welfare won`t help me in any way because I don`t have kids and because I`m an American citizen. The free clinic turned me away because I need pain medication and they don`t do that. The detox/rehab and methadone clinics won`t help me because I`m NOT a drug abuser. Go figure!!  I have done and been everywhere. There is no help for somebody who is honest, American, and not a drug abuser. All my life I`ve been told that being honest and doing the right thing always pays off. But believe it or not, those are the things that have hurt me the most.

[forgottensick]

I`m sorry everybody. I`m having a really bad day and don`t have any place else to vent. I`m getting so tired of the fight. I`ve been begging for help for over 2 1/2 months now and have been turned away by everybody. I have never begged for anything and usually dont ask for help, and when I finaly do, it doesn`t do any good. I`m just feeling very depressed and alone today. Maybe tomorrow will be better. I`ll see the new pain doctor by the end of this week, so maybe things will look better after that. It is very hard to stay positive when they have all made me feel like I don`t matter these past few months. I`ll be ok.  

[Elmijack15]

Hey there, that is horrible and I agree about the money part it's sad but true! Hope the new doc can help you and then do your taper and see where you're at. So many people get free medical care, have you tried to claim disability? They give it to so many who don't need it maybe you'll get lucky. Hang in there, we're all praying for you!

[forgottensick]

  It wasn`t my choice to go off the antidepressants. I need them and want them. I also would rather stay on the methadone. The problem is that so many people have been abusing pain pills that many doctors won`t give them out anymore and methadone is really hard to get. I keep getting doctors that cut me loose without notice. I don`t have insurance or an income, except when I mow yards for people. Pain doctors charge a lot every month to see them and when they realize you don`t have a lot of money, they cut ya loose.  I can`t even get a job because I don`t ever know how long I`ll have a doctor.  If it was my choice, I would be on antidepressants and 30mg of methadone per day from now on. But it isn`t up to me. All the doctors I`ve been to in the past 27 years have been all about the money.  I`m tired of having to fight every day just to have a little quality of life. Some dreams aren`t ment to come true. I would rather go back to where I was. At least I knew what each day was going to bring me.  It has been a constant battle for the past 7 years just to get the meds I need and with all the abuse happening now, it has become almost impossible to get the meds I need. It just isn`t worth the stress.

[forgottensick]

  I admit that I came very close to giving up a couple weeks ago. I have been doing everything I can think of to keep getting the help I need but keep getting the door slammed in my face. I called the local mental health clinic last month, crying my eyes out and begging for help. I told them I was ready to end it all. They said they would give me somebody to talk to but couldn`t get me in for 43 days!!  I have called around 40 doctors and clinics begging for help and they have all told me they can`t do anything because I either don`t have a bunch of money to give them or because I`m NOT a drug abuser. I really have been trying. I`m never begged for anything, but I have actually begged these places for help. They have all turned me down. Pain doctors all said they won`t help me get off the methadone because of the liability, but they also don`t want to take me because of the drug abuse happening and how the DEA is coming down on the doctors. To be honest, because of you and gnarly, I`m not going to give up. You both have given me some hope. I have been so stressed out over trying to be out of pain that I don`t even think it is worth it anymore. I would rather be back in my chair and in pain again than to keep going through this for the rest of what life I have left. If I could find a doctor I could trust to keep me on this small amount of methadone so I have a chance to do something with my life so I don`t feel like it has been a total waste, I would jump on it in a second. But every doctor I`ve seen since I got on it has cut me loose after a short time and left me hanging. I would rather go back to knowing what was going to happen from day to day than to keep going through this every few months. I got hurt at a young age and didn`t get the chance to do anything with my life. I used to dream of walking again, getting a job, and making my mark on the world, even if it was just a scratch. But I see that some things are just not ment to be. I have lost everything I`ve ever had in my life just trying to keep walking. I have nothing to give anymore so nobody will do anything to help me. It is what it is and I can except that. I tried and it didn`t work out. I`m ready to go back to the way it was before I wanted more out of my life. It really is ok. At least I can say I tried. If this works out, in a couple more months I`ll be off the pain meds and will never see a doctor ever again. It was nice to feel normal for a while, but I think I`m better off going back to the way it was.

[Elmijack15]

Just reread your first post maybe your new pian med doctor won't want to switch you to suboxone, wait and see but if methadone works for you you neec to tell them that's what you want to stay on, why change?

[Elmijack15]

Welcome, I guess I'm confused about your situation but I agree with Vicki, if the methadone helps your pain and keeps you out of being in a wheel chair and dependent on orhers, why are you trying to get off? Why did you stop the anti depressants? If you're going to a new pain doctor why not continue with the methadone and get back on AD to help you?

[vicki595]

Here's what I'm thinking and I have thought about this A LOT.  If I only had a choice between methadone and walking, I'd take the methadone. I know I would. And then to have pain ON TOP of being in a wheelchair. No. Not if I had a choice...and THEN to add depression into the mix...Have you thought all of this through? You sound like you're giving up...

[forgottensick]

  I have been on everything over the past 27 years and methadone is the only thing that actually cut the pain enough so I could walk. And the methadone works for me at small amounts. The other drugs worked for a while then I needed more and more. And the methadone is affordable for me. I hope he doesn`t change my medication right away. I didn`t think of that. I just figured that methadone asured them that they would be able to get money out of me longer.

[forgottensick]

Thanks gnarly.  For some reason you always make me feel better about this. There is so much about it that I don`t know.  I understand what you are saying about talking to the pain doctor about my situation, but I have no reason to believe he will understand and help me. Every single one of them I have seen is only about the money and helping get me off the methadone doesn`t make him money. I trust the people that have said to taper off the methadone a little at a time, so that is my plan. I am able to deal with this whole issue better since I`ve come up with a plan. That plan is to see the pain doctor and do what I need to do to get enough methadone to continue to taper until I`m off completely. I hope to be able to get down to at least 5mg before I have to go CT. I would rather go all the way down to 0mg, but don`t know if I can make it that long. I don`t have a job or any income, other than mowing lawns for people, so it takes me a month to just save up the $150 to see the pain doctor and have enough to  pay for my scripts, IF I get any. I`m going to tell him I`ve tapered down to 30mg and leave it at that. The more he gives me,the longer I can taper. My other posts explain why I have no reason to trust doctors and pain doctors are the worst of them all. I`m hopeing I`ll only need to see him for 2 months before I`m ready to jump. As far as the Suboxone, I can`t come up with the money to pay the doctor AND pay the much higher cost for the Suboxone too. Methadone is cheap. I can get 120 pills for around $25. I`ve heard sub is a lot more than that. It is bad enough that I am being forced to deal with my depression without any meds after being on meds for 26 years for depression and knowing I have to go back to a wheelchair and the very bad pain too...it is very overwhelming and is taking everything I have to keep going. But since I`ve found you all, I feel I have a better chance of making it alive. I would much rather be honest with my doctors,but that has just gotten be screwed so far. So I will do and say what I have to to get through this. This all just ***** so very bad. I`ll never be able to trust a doctor again and will most likely never even go to a doctor for anything again. I`m 53 and this is the time when I need doctors the most.  The stress alone is enough to kill a person.  Thanks for sticking with me. I know I rant a lot, but If I don`t get it out it makes me even sicker.

[vicki595]

Yes, you're spiking the doses without realizing it. You do need to keep a steady amount in your system at all times while tapering.

I know you like to taper in even numbers but try to cut out a percentage of the entire days dose. Don't taper more than once in a day either. And three days is the minimum time to wait between doses.

Re: the doctors appt.   are you going to ask him to continue on the methadone for pain management?   (so you'll have enough to taper with,I know). What if he wants to switch you to a different opiate?

[Teri9498]

  Hey....I also took the methadone pills and when I would taper them, I would cut them with a pill cutter, you can get one at Wal-Mart for like $4...it makes it much easier....I would cut the 10mg in half and then cut those halfs in half and so on.......

[forgottensick]

From 40mg, I dropped the first 10mg right off. It took about a 3 days to get used to it. From there I have been tapering 2.5mg at a time. As soon as I can get through a whole day without feeling like crap, I cut another 2.5mg. It seems to be taking about 3 days for my body to adjust...so far. My problem was that I was taking 10mg 4x a day. I cut down to 10mg 3x per day. Then I wasn`t sure how to cut down and still keep an even amount in my system. So I broke the rest in half and started taking 5mg every 6 hours. Yesterday I got away with taking a total of 20mg. I`m going to stay at 20mg for a couple more days to see how it goes. When I was taking 10mg in the morning, 5mg in the afternoon, and then 10mg in the evening was making my level go up and down. I have founf that if I keep the level the same throughout the day at every 6 hours , keeps the level even. I have found that taking the same amount every 6 hours along with all the suppliments in the Thomas Recipe has made it pretty easy....so far. I still feel a little withdrawls but when that happens, I go outside and work in the yard. I`ve found that the harder I work, the better I feel.
  I`m tapering at 2.5mg at a time because I don`t have enough to stretch this out too long and have no reason to trust this new pain management doctor to help me at all. The biggest thing I`ve found is that I have to keep an even amount in my system and that means taking the same amount every 6 hours.

[gnarly_1]

HI coming off meth is a breeze less a few bumps in the road in the higher doses less a few speed bumps along the way I went into withdrawals a number of time but in the lower doses (below25) it can be hard to do sub is a lot ez to taper off of from what the people I have worked with have said  I did methadone from 150 down to 0 that last 20 is a ruff ride and the last 10 was just living in withdrawals so it up to you nether one is an ez withdrawal in the end but sub dosent last as long after you stop it took me 90 days just to start to feel well again sub is usually a couple of weeks take it for what it worth good luck on what ever you decide if its the methadone I can help you off got some good supplements that will help you with withdrawals I will stay in touch.......Gnarly  

[Addicted2long]

Your going to be very very sick if you jump CT after that long of use. Not saying you can't do it or it's not possible but you'll be sick for weeks. 25mg is way too high to jump u should tell ur doc u want to keep tapering and go to 2-5mg or just take the sub for a short time. Sub is not nearely as hard to come off as meth. I do agree ur not an addict so u don't wanna trade a drug for another however the fact that u can't get more meth is only reason to consider sub. And i think its prob gunna be necessary. Good luck

[vicki595]

I'm curious:  How did you feel while tapering down to 25mg?

[forgottensick]

  It is very frustrating. I used to want to work in the medical field so I could help people, but because of everything I`ve been through, I have to trust or faith in the medical field anymore. It has become all about the money. There is no more REAL compassion anymore. I`ve spent the past 27 years being honet and open with all my doctors and this is what it got me. It is very upsetting that drug abusers can get pain pills to get high but I can`t get them for my pain. All I ever wanted was to be out of pain enough to work and pay my own way, but that isn`t going to happen. I hate the thought of being back in a wheelchair and depending on other again, but I guess that is the way it has to be. What a waste of life. I can do and be so much more if I could only get the chance.

[forgottensick]

Hey Teri. I wish I had enough methadone left to taper off without going to a pain doctor, but I don`t. I refuse to be put on Suboxone. After doing a LOT of research on it I have come to the conclusion that it is no better than methadone. I really believe it is just another way for Big Pharma to make more money off the pain pill community. I have founf NO good reason to switch somebody from methadone, or any other pain drug, to Suboxone. It seems to me the only ones to benifit are is Big Pharma. I look soo forward to being off all medications, even the antidepressants I`ve been on for the past 26 years. Unless I`m on my death bed, I will never go to another doctor after this.