Aa
therapy 4 the mind
I have my dr's appointment today and I really want to speak to him about therapy. I was in there last week and he told me that he knew I was going to other dr's for meds and he was pretty mad at me. He hasn't given me anything other than ultram in about 6 months but he also thought I was through with the loracet that he had been perscribing the 8 months prior. When he found out about me going to other dr's he said he couldn't trust me and he only gave me a few of the ultram and said I had to come back every week and check in with him to get more and so he knows I am not shopping any more. How do dr's find out about this kind of stuff? I am really trying to staighten up and I haven't used in 6 days but I am always able to do this I just can't keep myself off of them. I thought this would be a good reason to see a therapist. Any advice on this from anyone. I really want to kick this thing.
Check out NA (narcotics annonymous) or AA. It really helps.
They have everything on a master computer and they send it to the doctors. It's like Nazi Germany .... or big brother. Keep pluggin away .... you'll do just fine. Goldie
They have everything on a master computer and they send it to the doctors. It's like Nazi Germany .... or big brother. Keep pluggin away .... you'll do just fine. Goldie
Day 5 off of hydro's and for the grace of God I was spared the usual array of horrendous withdrawal symptoms--One would think since I had been given sort of a reprive I would be more committed than ever to staying clean--BUT NO--Trying to figure out just when I could get my refill has consumed my entire day! What insanity--I still ask the question WHY?WHY?WHY? can't I control it? Its almost like a foreign entity has taken over my body and soul. Every time I get a script I honestly think that I can take them as prescribed and then wham! Before I know what has hit me I'm back up to 12-15 per day. Am I insane? Thanks for letting me vent--this forum is my lifeline--Peace & Prayers--
New Orleans Lady AKA mystere
New Orleans Lady AKA mystere
Hi Doll!! Sounds like you're hangin' in there....The only thing I can come up w/, and I DON'T mean to be a smart-ass, but----that's addiction!!! Pure and simple...You will NEVER control it, hon. That's why we can't take one or three or every-other-day or EVER!!!
You changed your name??? I like it--que significa? If you've made it to day 5, please, PLEASE don't get those damn refills-- burn them----so you can quit tormenting your mind w/ the hopes and (false) dreams of narcotics......Cut all ties from your pharmacist, and get busy on something--ANYTHING that will allow you to focus on LIFE. You are doing so WELL!! Keep posting--ask away--whine--swear--LOL I don't care---Love--Peazy
You changed your name??? I like it--que significa? If you've made it to day 5, please, PLEASE don't get those damn refills-- burn them----so you can quit tormenting your mind w/ the hopes and (false) dreams of narcotics......Cut all ties from your pharmacist, and get busy on something--ANYTHING that will allow you to focus on LIFE. You are doing so WELL!! Keep posting--ask away--whine--swear--LOL I don't care---Love--Peazy
Thanks so much for responding--When I registered with Med-Help on my home computer for some reason I didn't think I could use my same nickname (New Orleans Lady) that I use at work--Oh well I didn't mean to confuse anyone--I'm very new at this computer stuff--And yes you are soooo right--Its called addiction--Tonight I know I will go to bed without taking a pill--thanks mostly to this forum and all of the support--And you are so right I need to cut my ties to my pharmacist--I know I'm safe for at least a few days because it is way too early for the refill--I went thru 100 hydro 10/400 in about a week--I'm just praying that I get a little stronger every day--Thanks again Peazy you--Kilo--Thomas and everyone are all Godsent--Peace and prayers to everyone especially those in harms way
I was prescribed levoxyl (for thyroid/coldness), and neurontin (to see if it worked on my neck/nerve pain). The two together, at a bit of a high initial dose, makes me feel great. Warm, and almost like mild "Extasy". No w/d feelings, which I normally always feel. Now this I am sure will change, but has anyone heard of such a thing? I will update you all with a little more experience on my part. freezing/not.
mystere, hi my name is michael , i am a recovering addict.
what you are going through is normal. you might want to strt keeping a journal, and write each day about what you are going through, it helps to get it out.
also you could sak youself some questioms ,like
why do you use, why do you want to use.
what do you expect to get out of a life clean from pills.
writ about self deception, and how taking pills is so self centered and how it effects your life and the people in your life when you use them. to name a few topics for a daily journal/
at the end of a month of keeping a journal ,go back and read it
,you will be suprised to learn so much about yourself.
peace!hippy
freezzing, i take syntrroid for my thyroid and had to go through a battrey of test before they gave me this medacation.
i also have taken nurotin for detox , i never mixed them tho.
you might want to ask your doctor about it.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hippy
what you are going through is normal. you might want to strt keeping a journal, and write each day about what you are going through, it helps to get it out.
also you could sak youself some questioms ,like
why do you use, why do you want to use.
what do you expect to get out of a life clean from pills.
writ about self deception, and how taking pills is so self centered and how it effects your life and the people in your life when you use them. to name a few topics for a daily journal/
at the end of a month of keeping a journal ,go back and read it
,you will be suprised to learn so much about yourself.
peace!hippy
freezzing, i take syntrroid for my thyroid and had to go through a battrey of test before they gave me this medacation.
i also have taken nurotin for detox , i never mixed them tho.
you might want to ask your doctor about it.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hippy
Thanks goldie but how do I change dr's now? Won't every dr see this. I want to change and just take the ultram but I am scared I will be looked down on because of this. Anyway I am in touch with a therapist and will let you know how this goes.
Thanks so much Michael for the advice about keeping a journal--That is an excellent idea!--I guess that is the part (as Dr. Phil would say) where its time to GET REAL with yourself!--I think that is the one thing all of us addicts make every effort not to do!
Thank God the cravings aren't bad today--Its actually a beautiful morning here in the Crescent City and it is rather spectacular to see it through a clear set of eyes. Thanks to everyone for just being here--just knowing I'm not alone with this struggle helps tremendously! Peace and Prayers
Sysyphus--I hope you are well! Please check in and let us know how you are! You are a very talented writer.
Thank God the cravings aren't bad today--Its actually a beautiful morning here in the Crescent City and it is rather spectacular to see it through a clear set of eyes. Thanks to everyone for just being here--just knowing I'm not alone with this struggle helps tremendously! Peace and Prayers
Sysyphus--I hope you are well! Please check in and let us know how you are! You are a very talented writer.
I forgot to answer your question about the significance of my nickname--Mystere-I am actually a Cirque du Soleil FREAK! I have seen just about every show that they have done--Mystere is the name of the Cirque show playing at Treasure Island in Las Vegas--It absolutely took my breath away--Anyway How are you doing? You always seem to have the right words of encouragement--Thank you--Also with everything going on right now my "little addiction problem" doesn't seem to be worth whining about. Take care--Peace and Prayers (especially to all the young men and women putting their lives on the line for our country!) I would like to tell them that WE ARE A GRATEFUL NATION!
I have to take exception to a comment written here, that states your addiction cannot be controlled.
Drug addiction like many disorders have organic and inorganic properties. The organic aspects of drug adiction for most of us is the physical dependence and psychological components.
Fortunate for us the physical dependence aspect of opiate addiction is very self-limited, non-life threatening, and of relative short duration. With the exception of methadone, most short-acting and long acting opiates fail to have any physiological symptoms after 5-7 days. As we all know to well, once you stop opiate administration symptoms of physical dependence come on like gang busters.
The study of science has proven one thing about scientific investigation...once conclusions are reached, and once those conclusions are "sold" to the scientific community, it's damn near impossible to change those conclusions.
Much money, research and profesional careers have staked their claim to a single fact..."That addiction is a disease".
Only of late has this statement been attacked and refutted.
We can take a look at some other very common diseases and attempt to apply a disease - to - disease comparision.
It's not like comparing apples to oranges, but more along the line of comparing cause and effect.
Once a drug addicted individual stops ingesting opiates, a bag full of nasty things take place. Opiate w/d is basically a 180 degree turn of effects versus the opiate "high.
We all know them...constipation becomes diarheaa, increased energy levels become lethargy, etc.. But these symptoms rarely last a long period of time and your body returns to a normal state of physiological function.
The same cannot hold true for someone with Type I diabetes. Diabetes is a true disease of the pancreas. The pancreas fails to produce enough insulin, so insulin must come from an outside source...without it a whole list of nasty and usually fatal outcomes present themselves. The same holds true for the disease of hypertension...untreated hypertension leads to stroke, heart failure and severe peripheral dysfunction.
This is simply not the case when looking at the "disease" of drug addiction. Simply put...if you don't take your hydro's, vikes, or OC's you are not going to die, and your "disease" does not get worse, in fact give it a few days and you start to get better. So why is it so hard to stop and remained stopped when a decision has been made by a person to live drug free. Well we know it's not a physical disease, but a psychological disorder. I know as most of you do that stopping is actually very easy, staying stopped is the tough part.
Assuming all things being the same between me and you and the next guy (no significant underlying neurological or mental health disease) why can person X stay clean, while person Y cannot? If drug addiction was truly a disease...then in order to stay clean everyone who suffers from it would require the same accepted standard of care or treatment plan. Hey a diabetic, regardless of his willpower isn't going to just get better because he willed himslf to do so. No, all diabetics in order to control and treat their disease require the same accepted standard of care. The same holds true for nearly all diseases. But, many people have successfully treated their addiction without any medical or psychological treatment.
So the question begs asking again...is my addiction to opiates a disease? It is so much easier for the medical community to view addiction as a disease. Once labeled a disease then standard disease treatment protocols can be applied...severity, diagnosis related grouping, medical interventions and critical pathways, stages of progression, prognosis, remission, etc. ****, once this happens then coding or billing can be applied.
There is much agreement about the chemical imprinting that opiate addiction causes. These facts are not disputed. Long and substained use of opiates do affect the chemical neurorology of your brain. Much of this chemical imprinting is permanent. That is why many people who were addicted years ago, can re-addict in a very short period of time. Once the brain learns something it cannot be de-learned. What once took 4-6 weeks of substained use, will in reality only take a few days or a week. This is brain behavior and not underlying brain or neurological disease.
Mystere in your last post you asked..."Why, why, why can't I control it"..."Am I insane". Well I don't know the answer to your second question :<), just kidding. Although I have had little contact with NA or AA, I will say this...Do not believe for ONE MOMENT that you are powerless in this fight. I take exception to that statement, which seems to be the foundation of NA and AA. And if my addiction is a disease, then the last place I need to be is in a meeting, because diseases need to be treated by trained medical personnel. I know that these organizations have helped millions of people in their fight against addiction, but our addiction, for most of us, was a choice. Our decision to live drug free is a choice. There is power in choice. In true diseases you do not have a choice to simply say, I'm healed and that's that.
There many avenues to sobiety, some require treatment, just like many diseases require treatment. Sobiety is a progressive path. Once the physical w/d's are over, you are drug free. If viewing this from a disease standpoint you are healed. Now you must start to practice preventive medicine, to prevent this "disease" from re-appearing. You do not stay in one stage of your recovery for very long. The physical w/d's are 5-7 days, the next 30-90
days is a period of uncertainity...decreased energy levels, depression, angry at oneself for allowing this, intense urges and cravings. By far the cravings and urges are the toughest. But, they won't kill you or even injury you. And when you re-direct yourself and call these urges every dirty name in the book, they run away. They'll come back, but as each day passes they visit you less often and they get weaker over time.
My God I have written a small novel, and I have taken up way too much of this forum, but I will leave you with one last thought. I have NEVER liked the word addict. Even though I'm 40+ days clean, I'm not an addict. Even when I was 1 day clean I wasn't an addict. Don't subscribe to this label. Do you go to parties and people introduce themselves as...Hi I'm diabetic, Hi I'm depressed, Hi I'm cancer, Hi I'm congestive heart failure... You get the point. NEVER let your struggle define you!
I was once an infant, for now I'm a child, and that child GREW and left behind childhood, for now I'm a teenager, and that teenager GREW and left behind those teenager years, and now I'm an adult. I was once a drug addict, but I GREW and left the drug addict behind.
Peace to all of you.
Kilo
Drug addiction like many disorders have organic and inorganic properties. The organic aspects of drug adiction for most of us is the physical dependence and psychological components.
Fortunate for us the physical dependence aspect of opiate addiction is very self-limited, non-life threatening, and of relative short duration. With the exception of methadone, most short-acting and long acting opiates fail to have any physiological symptoms after 5-7 days. As we all know to well, once you stop opiate administration symptoms of physical dependence come on like gang busters.
The study of science has proven one thing about scientific investigation...once conclusions are reached, and once those conclusions are "sold" to the scientific community, it's damn near impossible to change those conclusions.
Much money, research and profesional careers have staked their claim to a single fact..."That addiction is a disease".
Only of late has this statement been attacked and refutted.
We can take a look at some other very common diseases and attempt to apply a disease - to - disease comparision.
It's not like comparing apples to oranges, but more along the line of comparing cause and effect.
Once a drug addicted individual stops ingesting opiates, a bag full of nasty things take place. Opiate w/d is basically a 180 degree turn of effects versus the opiate "high.
We all know them...constipation becomes diarheaa, increased energy levels become lethargy, etc.. But these symptoms rarely last a long period of time and your body returns to a normal state of physiological function.
The same cannot hold true for someone with Type I diabetes. Diabetes is a true disease of the pancreas. The pancreas fails to produce enough insulin, so insulin must come from an outside source...without it a whole list of nasty and usually fatal outcomes present themselves. The same holds true for the disease of hypertension...untreated hypertension leads to stroke, heart failure and severe peripheral dysfunction.
This is simply not the case when looking at the "disease" of drug addiction. Simply put...if you don't take your hydro's, vikes, or OC's you are not going to die, and your "disease" does not get worse, in fact give it a few days and you start to get better. So why is it so hard to stop and remained stopped when a decision has been made by a person to live drug free. Well we know it's not a physical disease, but a psychological disorder. I know as most of you do that stopping is actually very easy, staying stopped is the tough part.
Assuming all things being the same between me and you and the next guy (no significant underlying neurological or mental health disease) why can person X stay clean, while person Y cannot? If drug addiction was truly a disease...then in order to stay clean everyone who suffers from it would require the same accepted standard of care or treatment plan. Hey a diabetic, regardless of his willpower isn't going to just get better because he willed himslf to do so. No, all diabetics in order to control and treat their disease require the same accepted standard of care. The same holds true for nearly all diseases. But, many people have successfully treated their addiction without any medical or psychological treatment.
So the question begs asking again...is my addiction to opiates a disease? It is so much easier for the medical community to view addiction as a disease. Once labeled a disease then standard disease treatment protocols can be applied...severity, diagnosis related grouping, medical interventions and critical pathways, stages of progression, prognosis, remission, etc. ****, once this happens then coding or billing can be applied.
There is much agreement about the chemical imprinting that opiate addiction causes. These facts are not disputed. Long and substained use of opiates do affect the chemical neurorology of your brain. Much of this chemical imprinting is permanent. That is why many people who were addicted years ago, can re-addict in a very short period of time. Once the brain learns something it cannot be de-learned. What once took 4-6 weeks of substained use, will in reality only take a few days or a week. This is brain behavior and not underlying brain or neurological disease.
Mystere in your last post you asked..."Why, why, why can't I control it"..."Am I insane". Well I don't know the answer to your second question :<), just kidding. Although I have had little contact with NA or AA, I will say this...Do not believe for ONE MOMENT that you are powerless in this fight. I take exception to that statement, which seems to be the foundation of NA and AA. And if my addiction is a disease, then the last place I need to be is in a meeting, because diseases need to be treated by trained medical personnel. I know that these organizations have helped millions of people in their fight against addiction, but our addiction, for most of us, was a choice. Our decision to live drug free is a choice. There is power in choice. In true diseases you do not have a choice to simply say, I'm healed and that's that.
There many avenues to sobiety, some require treatment, just like many diseases require treatment. Sobiety is a progressive path. Once the physical w/d's are over, you are drug free. If viewing this from a disease standpoint you are healed. Now you must start to practice preventive medicine, to prevent this "disease" from re-appearing. You do not stay in one stage of your recovery for very long. The physical w/d's are 5-7 days, the next 30-90
days is a period of uncertainity...decreased energy levels, depression, angry at oneself for allowing this, intense urges and cravings. By far the cravings and urges are the toughest. But, they won't kill you or even injury you. And when you re-direct yourself and call these urges every dirty name in the book, they run away. They'll come back, but as each day passes they visit you less often and they get weaker over time.
My God I have written a small novel, and I have taken up way too much of this forum, but I will leave you with one last thought. I have NEVER liked the word addict. Even though I'm 40+ days clean, I'm not an addict. Even when I was 1 day clean I wasn't an addict. Don't subscribe to this label. Do you go to parties and people introduce themselves as...Hi I'm diabetic, Hi I'm depressed, Hi I'm cancer, Hi I'm congestive heart failure... You get the point. NEVER let your struggle define you!
I was once an infant, for now I'm a child, and that child GREW and left behind childhood, for now I'm a teenager, and that teenager GREW and left behind those teenager years, and now I'm an adult. I was once a drug addict, but I GREW and left the drug addict behind.
Peace to all of you.
Kilo
You mean I actually have to take responsibility for my own recovery? What a scary thought! JUST KIDDING!--As always you have certainly given me something to think about. I have always had trouble with that powerlessness thing and the once an addict always an addict philosophy. Thanks so much for a very thought provoking post--As Always Peace and Prayers to all
You mean I actually have to take responsibility for my own recovery? What a scary thought! JUST KIDDING!--As always you have certainly given me something to think about. I have always had trouble with that powerlessness thing and the once an addict always an addict philosophy. Thanks so much for a very thought provoking post--As Always Peace and Prayers to all
For me, it's definitely physical more than psycholigical. It's the physical suffering that I cannot take. Psychologically, I hate to take opiates. I don't get high. I just have to mitigate the physical suffering.
Hippee, it was one doctor that prescribed the levoxyl and the neurontin at the same time (not addiction doc though). He did not comment on any effect resulting from combination of the two.
Hippee, it was one doctor that prescribed the levoxyl and the neurontin at the same time (not addiction doc though). He did not comment on any effect resulting from combination of the two.
Thanks for anexcellent post!! I agree w/ everything you say. I don't think we disagree on the "control" issue....What I was trying to tell Mystere is that, once she makes the choice to use, she will find it difficult if not impossible to control her intake/dosage. But , can she make the decision to NOT USE in the first place? Absolutely. So I think we are basically saying the same thing here. Your topic of powerlessness should be inserted here.. I have posted on this forum more than a few times that I have NEVER agreed with the 12-Step premise that we are powerless, and some Higher Power is calling the shots for us. WE are keeping OURSELVES sober; thank you very much!! :-) I decide whether or not to put **** in my body; not some etheral being. I have a great deal of power in regard to my addiction, and when 12-Step people give the ol' "You have the choice to use or not use when you wake up in the morning" speech, they are actually supporting my claim that the power is, indeed, MINE.
Neither do I think addiction is a disease. Like you say, when it was decided to call it that (by whom?) it gave way to putting a cute label and more importantly, A SCAPEGOAT Catagory that was so very necessary. If people couldn't blame their misbehavior and sins on something other than themselves, how would one ever forgive oneself for all the havoc that we wreaked throughout our duration? And, if we had to "own" all that guilt, how could anyone stay sober??? It would be impossible in that frame of mind. So---let's call it a disease,, place the blame on that, and voila!!! it provides a multitude of excuses. I have always thought the analogy of addiction to diabetes, cancer, or what have you was absoultely laughable!! Let's see, now---you mean to tell me you're seriously comparing insulin to a mood-altering substance???? You must be joking!!!! One save a life, the other destroys..How did this stupid comparison EVER come about???!!!!
I am mandated to attend AA mtgs. and when it comes to my turn to speak, I WILL NOT say, " Hi, I'm Diane and I'm an addict/alkie" I'll just start talking. And invariably, someone will start "aheming" me....to prompt me, which I will smugly ignore.....WHY do I have to identify myself w/ a label, which, like you say. is one I left behind??? Must I wear that hair shirt FOREVER???? The funniest (sickening, really) thing is, that at meetings, when someone talks, then another one says their thing, and the first speaker wants to comment on what was said, they all say" I'm Joe, and I'm STILL an alkie." when they've just spoken 2 minutes previous. Jesus!! How ridiculous can you be??? Do you HEAR yourself???
I'm going on , I know...I'll close. I think you and I have the same beliefs, Kilo--I just didn't express mine very well in my post to Mystere. You added some very worthwhile points, and it was nice to know that I'm not alone in my beliefs. My best to all----Peaz
P.S. My daughter has seen Circque de Soilel(did I butcher that spelling??) in Vegas and loved them, too!! Have you seen Blue Man Group???
Neither do I think addiction is a disease. Like you say, when it was decided to call it that (by whom?) it gave way to putting a cute label and more importantly, A SCAPEGOAT Catagory that was so very necessary. If people couldn't blame their misbehavior and sins on something other than themselves, how would one ever forgive oneself for all the havoc that we wreaked throughout our duration? And, if we had to "own" all that guilt, how could anyone stay sober??? It would be impossible in that frame of mind. So---let's call it a disease,, place the blame on that, and voila!!! it provides a multitude of excuses. I have always thought the analogy of addiction to diabetes, cancer, or what have you was absoultely laughable!! Let's see, now---you mean to tell me you're seriously comparing insulin to a mood-altering substance???? You must be joking!!!! One save a life, the other destroys..How did this stupid comparison EVER come about???!!!!
I am mandated to attend AA mtgs. and when it comes to my turn to speak, I WILL NOT say, " Hi, I'm Diane and I'm an addict/alkie" I'll just start talking. And invariably, someone will start "aheming" me....to prompt me, which I will smugly ignore.....WHY do I have to identify myself w/ a label, which, like you say. is one I left behind??? Must I wear that hair shirt FOREVER???? The funniest (sickening, really) thing is, that at meetings, when someone talks, then another one says their thing, and the first speaker wants to comment on what was said, they all say" I'm Joe, and I'm STILL an alkie." when they've just spoken 2 minutes previous. Jesus!! How ridiculous can you be??? Do you HEAR yourself???
I'm going on , I know...I'll close. I think you and I have the same beliefs, Kilo--I just didn't express mine very well in my post to Mystere. You added some very worthwhile points, and it was nice to know that I'm not alone in my beliefs. My best to all----Peaz
P.S. My daughter has seen Circque de Soilel(did I butcher that spelling??) in Vegas and loved them, too!! Have you seen Blue Man Group???
Oh yeah I absolutely agree with the "control" point you described. When I had pills, it was all or nothing. Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions.
I found it incredible that people could actually taper in their detox. For me it was simple...have drugs, do drugs.
I guess it all goes back to the "choice" issue. Don't get me wrong...opiate addiction is 99.9% a pure psychological battle.
But what is unique is that many can beat this addiction with little or no medical/mental health intervention, while others require intensive treatment with synthetic forms of opiates and opiate blocking medications.
I've read several stories on this forum how somebody c/t from a 400mg to 800mg a day OC habit, while others struggle with a small 15mg - 20mg hydrocodone habit.
While I refuse to accept the "disease" concept, there is no doubt that there is several underlying factors that determine if one is to be successful longterm. I do not subscribe that physically dependent opiate users are "weak willed". But, there is no doubt that determination and self responsibility play a major role in your ability to become and stay sober. Just look in your local phone book or do an Internet search on drug addiction, it's a multi-billion dollar industry out to treat "Your disease"
Finding out how others are successful and also researching why others are unsuccessful, would be money well spent.
Just my 2 cents.
Peace
Kilo
I found it incredible that people could actually taper in their detox. For me it was simple...have drugs, do drugs.
I guess it all goes back to the "choice" issue. Don't get me wrong...opiate addiction is 99.9% a pure psychological battle.
But what is unique is that many can beat this addiction with little or no medical/mental health intervention, while others require intensive treatment with synthetic forms of opiates and opiate blocking medications.
I've read several stories on this forum how somebody c/t from a 400mg to 800mg a day OC habit, while others struggle with a small 15mg - 20mg hydrocodone habit.
While I refuse to accept the "disease" concept, there is no doubt that there is several underlying factors that determine if one is to be successful longterm. I do not subscribe that physically dependent opiate users are "weak willed". But, there is no doubt that determination and self responsibility play a major role in your ability to become and stay sober. Just look in your local phone book or do an Internet search on drug addiction, it's a multi-billion dollar industry out to treat "Your disease"
Finding out how others are successful and also researching why others are unsuccessful, would be money well spent.
Just my 2 cents.
Peace
Kilo
Just a few words to sy hey, i haven't been online for a while because frankly I just don't feel as though I have anything to to say that is gonna change anyones mind. Its a bad attitude and zI wish I had a better outlook on life but I just feel like I blew my life and hope some of these kids can change it around and live a good life, the kind that they claim to want.I doubt that I will be bothering ya'll with my bullshit anymore so you can put your mind at rest, Sorry for breaking your thread, I just saw your name and wanted to say hey. Take care and I hope you find what it is you are looking for and go on to live a long happy drug free life if thats what you want. I'm through with all the drama myself.
Later Bro,
Jimb
Later Bro,
Jimb
I would like to share a few observations with you ...
First ... The 12 step program is only one way to address a drug, drinking, gambling, or food obsession. As you said, after getting straight the real challenge is staying straight.
The first step .. "Admitted we were powerless over substances and our lives had become unmanagable". ... anyone that takes an honest look at his life during the ravages of drug abuse can see just how unmanagable it is. The 12step program is about honesty and breaking the isolation. Addiction is a "progressive" disease. That means that it can be arrested, but it will always be there and it will continue to progress even though we are not actively using. Another reality check for those of us who refuse to remember where we came from. Sorry to say .... but if I don't refresh my memory on a regular basis, I will start to lie to myself and minimize everything .... I will invent history and pretty soon I will believe that it wasn't all that bad and I can handle it. I'm not like those "other" people. I quit before, I can do it again.... . I know there is another "high" out there, but I don't know if there is another recovery. Life is too short. NA is an anonymous fellowship and the custom of introducing yourself as an addict helps to keep us humble and teachable. Being an addict is only "part" of who we are .. we are so much more. Unfortunately, until we recover from this affliction, it is likely to dominate our lives. I love the program for alot of reasons ... but mainly because it works. Goldie
First ... The 12 step program is only one way to address a drug, drinking, gambling, or food obsession. As you said, after getting straight the real challenge is staying straight.
The first step .. "Admitted we were powerless over substances and our lives had become unmanagable". ... anyone that takes an honest look at his life during the ravages of drug abuse can see just how unmanagable it is. The 12step program is about honesty and breaking the isolation. Addiction is a "progressive" disease. That means that it can be arrested, but it will always be there and it will continue to progress even though we are not actively using. Another reality check for those of us who refuse to remember where we came from. Sorry to say .... but if I don't refresh my memory on a regular basis, I will start to lie to myself and minimize everything .... I will invent history and pretty soon I will believe that it wasn't all that bad and I can handle it. I'm not like those "other" people. I quit before, I can do it again.... . I know there is another "high" out there, but I don't know if there is another recovery. Life is too short. NA is an anonymous fellowship and the custom of introducing yourself as an addict helps to keep us humble and teachable. Being an addict is only "part" of who we are .. we are so much more. Unfortunately, until we recover from this affliction, it is likely to dominate our lives. I love the program for alot of reasons ... but mainly because it works. Goldie
Thanks for some great posts!!!
Its funny Kilo; when i was on percocet for so many years, i felt i had virtually no will power....you know the usual, "taper off the next script" bullshit. Then when i decided i had enough August 6th.....I tapered(from a very large amount) for the first time , down to zero by Aug. 19th; and actually flushed 120 percs(with some dilaudid in for good measure) a couple weeks later.
Thanks Again
Its funny Kilo; when i was on percocet for so many years, i felt i had virtually no will power....you know the usual, "taper off the next script" bullshit. Then when i decided i had enough August 6th.....I tapered(from a very large amount) for the first time , down to zero by Aug. 19th; and actually flushed 120 percs(with some dilaudid in for good measure) a couple weeks later.
Thanks Again
The insurance companies check out your refil history (because they are paying I guess) and report it to the doctors. I'm looking for my red flag report .... I was joking about big brother ...
Hey Jim - I've been wondering about ya! Last time you posted you were going out to celebrate your birthday....I was worried you might have "self-destructed"...smile. Don't beat yourself up, buddy - everyone with substance abuse problems have wasted part of our lives - but hey - we still have the rest of our life in front of us. I'm struggling too, but trying SO hard to have a positive outlook. In the past few years, I've run up my credit cards to an embarrassing level, alienated family and friends, and throughout have had my head in the JD bottle and pill bottle to try to numb the fear and pain of everyday life. I have taken steps, although very small ones, to try to do better. I'm still scared and struggling, but one step at a time, I've started to get my life back. I really believe that abusers, such as you and I, have more than usual sensitive feelings towards things, that lead us to abuse to numb those intense feelings. Maybe some people just "feel" things more than most, and it's hard to handle - therefore, we medicate...smile. I'm glad to see you back posting; please don't go away - your good heart and experience benefits all of us. Have a great weekend. Love, Lisabet
I guess that's where we differ...unmanagable yes, powerless no!
Choice is empowerment. You and I weren't powerless when it came to taking drugs, why should we be powerless when it comes to stopping and staying stopped.
As for honesty...you can't lie to yourself. I proved to my family, my friends, my physicians, and my pastor how empowered I was. I told them everything!
Prove to my scientific mind how a "disease" like addiction continues to progress after a person stops using. The definition of progression states "moving forward or onward, advancing". You mean to tell me that my drug addiction is "advancing" even after I have stopped using for 5, 10 or 20 years.
I need not worry or forget "where I came from". The destruction, pain and re-building of my life after drugs will always be there.
As for being humble and teachable. I don't need a room full of people to remind of that. Everytime I open the Bible or pray to God is the only reminder I need on the subject of humility.
Being an "addict" is a part of WHAT I was. I once had cancer at an early age and that too was a part of WHAT I was.
What strikes me as confusing is your statement "Unfortunately, until we recover from this affliction". But I thought (by NA standards) that addiction will always be there and continue to progress. If that be the case, how can recovery ever take place?
Don't get me wrong...If the "program" works for you then I salute your sobiety, your hardwork and your determination. But a blanket statement that NA is a program to love because it works doesn't apply to all of us. It works for some of us. Re-affirmation after re-affirmation of a destructive behavior is not my idea of recovery. Self responsibility of one's choices and behaviors, and that includes the work and strength to stay clean empowers individuals and doesn't label one as powerless.
But, as my father once said..."Opinions are like assholes, we all have one and they all stink".
Peace
Kilo
Choice is empowerment. You and I weren't powerless when it came to taking drugs, why should we be powerless when it comes to stopping and staying stopped.
As for honesty...you can't lie to yourself. I proved to my family, my friends, my physicians, and my pastor how empowered I was. I told them everything!
Prove to my scientific mind how a "disease" like addiction continues to progress after a person stops using. The definition of progression states "moving forward or onward, advancing". You mean to tell me that my drug addiction is "advancing" even after I have stopped using for 5, 10 or 20 years.
I need not worry or forget "where I came from". The destruction, pain and re-building of my life after drugs will always be there.
As for being humble and teachable. I don't need a room full of people to remind of that. Everytime I open the Bible or pray to God is the only reminder I need on the subject of humility.
Being an "addict" is a part of WHAT I was. I once had cancer at an early age and that too was a part of WHAT I was.
What strikes me as confusing is your statement "Unfortunately, until we recover from this affliction". But I thought (by NA standards) that addiction will always be there and continue to progress. If that be the case, how can recovery ever take place?
Don't get me wrong...If the "program" works for you then I salute your sobiety, your hardwork and your determination. But a blanket statement that NA is a program to love because it works doesn't apply to all of us. It works for some of us. Re-affirmation after re-affirmation of a destructive behavior is not my idea of recovery. Self responsibility of one's choices and behaviors, and that includes the work and strength to stay clean empowers individuals and doesn't label one as powerless.
But, as my father once said..."Opinions are like assholes, we all have one and they all stink".
Peace
Kilo
Hi Peaz - I appreciate your post above. You definitly give one "food for thought"....you have my respect. It's posts such as yours and others that help give insight into my own recovery. Love you, and have a great weekend. Lisabet
Speaking blindly, having never tried NA (but having researched it endlessly in literature and on the net),I can reiterate it is.. BUNK BUNK BUNK. (an escape goat)
Years ago, I tried AA, 'tho alcohol was not my problem. I, in addition to all Peaz eloquently stated, and you as well, Kilo.. might also add that those peeps in AA seemed cliquish, cultish and additionally an ooooooh so verrrry needy, clawing clinging group.
(complete w/ robotic rituals)
In desperation, I soon investigated RR (Rational Recovery) which is what you two are seemingly touting. It has elements of Smart Recovery, maybe even a twin. Regardless (note irregardless is non-standard English. I am a Grammar Nazi at heart, a kind one), I am glad to read intelligent pieces exposing the sham of AA. ~
Years ago, I tried AA, 'tho alcohol was not my problem. I, in addition to all Peaz eloquently stated, and you as well, Kilo.. might also add that those peeps in AA seemed cliquish, cultish and additionally an ooooooh so verrrry needy, clawing clinging group.
(complete w/ robotic rituals)
In desperation, I soon investigated RR (Rational Recovery) which is what you two are seemingly touting. It has elements of Smart Recovery, maybe even a twin. Regardless (note irregardless is non-standard English. I am a Grammar Nazi at heart, a kind one), I am glad to read intelligent pieces exposing the sham of AA. ~
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