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husband present for biopsy?
I am scheduled for a core needle biopsy and have been told that my husband is not allowed to be present during the procedure. We are military and have found that sometimes military hospitals are less accommodating regarding patient preferences. Is this one of those instances, or do most hospitals refuse a family member to be present? Can I challenge this and expect them to allow him to be with me?
My biopsy took place in a surgeon's office, and my husband was allowed to be there. He held my hand (of the other arm) while they punched away. I'm not sure exactly which type of biopsy, but it was a punch tool.
Had he not been there, I think I would have fainted. As it was, between he and 2 other nurses, they had to help me get off the table without vomitting. My doc, I think, had most of his staff in the room with us.
Had he not been there, I think I would have fainted. As it was, between he and 2 other nurses, they had to help me get off the table without vomitting. My doc, I think, had most of his staff in the room with us.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Dear lkhcello, It is unlikely that allowing family members to be present during a surgical procedure would be permitted or encouraged in any facility. Care needs to be focused on the patient, and the procedure being done. A non-medical person could be a distraction which could put your care in jeopardy. Talk with the staff at the facility to find out procedures – how long the procedure is expected to take, when will someone let your husband know how you are doing, can he be with you directly after the procedure is complete (this would vary depending on the facility, privacy of other patients etc.).
I'm not aware that any hospital would allow a family member to be present during a surgical procedure. Though family members might want to be present it's NOT a good idea. All eyes and hands are there to care for you and having non medical persons present complicates the situation. Obstetrics is the only exception that I'm aware of permitting a family member to be present.If you challenge this rule you would doing yourself and your medical team a great disservice as well as putting yourself at risk.
“jd” writes:
“The domination exhibited by physicians, particularly surgeons, is about far more than verbal abuse and yelling. I don't doubt those defending their experience who say that they haven't seen many angry tantrums by surgeons. But I think we're getting distracted by the most extreme displays so that we miss the very real and dangerous power dynamics here.
“I happen to have just been in the OR a couple of weeks ago with my wife, who was undergoing an emergency C-section. It was performed by obstetricians, as most are. There was one attending and one (I'm guessing) resident who was being trained during the operation. Their tone of voice and demeanor was perfectly pleasant throughout.
“But here's the thing: as far as they were concerned they were the center of the universe and everything in that room revolved around them. The patient and the nurses had the status of objects. They were oblivious to my wife and I as human beings, and never once spoke to us in the OR. That would have been fine if they were so focused on the operation that they didn't want distractions, but in fact they gabbed with each other throughout the procedure. I couldn't believe how many different things they found to talk about while cutting open and sewing up my wife. Some of it had to do with training, which is appropriate though a bit unnerving. Some of it had to do with office gossip, friends in common, etc., which is quite unprofessional. How many airline pilots do you know who make a habit of gabbing with their crews over the intercom throughout a flight? Or imagine that only the pilot and co-pilot would speak to each other, treating the flight attendants as worthy of communication only to issue orders.
“But all that was a minor annoyance to me, and I would not have commented on it except for the following: the nurses quite clearly lived in fear of the doctors. This was cemented for me when I saw two nurses counting up the sponges when it came time to start sewing up my wife. They went through ...17, 18, 19... one is missing. So, they count again. Same number. Count again. Same number. They talk to each other about a missing rag in perfectly normal voices 6 feet from me. I hear their concern. The doctors do not, though they hear each other loud and clear.
“Then, rather than make sure to get the physicians' attention, the nurses keep counting. I lost track of how many different times they poked and rearranged their piles of bloody sponges to try to make the final one appear. I could see the them laid out in rows on the floor, and it wasn't long before their behavior appeared pathological. After the 7th or 8th counting (who knows) with the exact same result, a nurse looks up at a doctor plaintively and starts to say something. She panics and it catches in her throat to make an inarticulate sound, but since she is only 3 feet from the doctors I still expect one of them to turn and ask 'what is it?' Doesn't happen.
“So, the nurses go counting again. And again. Meanwhile, the physicians are busy sewing up my wife. They are probably half-way done when finally a nurse summons the courage to speak up and say a sponge is missing.
“The doctors don't yell at her. They calmly start digging around in the uterus to find the final sponge. After some effort, they find it. There is no ‘thanks for pointing that out.’ Or, 'glad we caught that.' They went on as though nothing had happened. Now, you can say the nurses were just doing their jobs and didn't need thanking, and that if either of the physicians were thinking ‘Shit, I almost screwed up’ they wouldn't want to admit it in front of everyone, including the patient. I'm OK with that.
“What I'm not OK with is that the nurses are afraid to speak up and correct physicians even when it is essential to their job. One nurse finally overcame her fear this time, but I am not confident that it will happen every time at that hospital.
“I look back and wonder why I didn't say anything. It didn't even occur to me, because I saw myself as just a spectator and provider of support to my wife. In retrospect, I should have taken a different attitude, but it's hard when you are suddenly thrown into that environment. (Mother and child are both doing fine now, by the way.)
“The two physicians, I am sure, saw themselves as the paragons of civility and good manners. How they had their effect on the nurses I don't really know. Were they imperious outside of the OR? Did the attending have a reputation for blowing up when interrupted even if they didn't this time? If a nurse interrupts and she is wrong, does she get punished in more subtle or indirect ways? For all I know, the physicians are always civil to the nurses' faces and their intimidation came from an ability to give them low marks or decide that they don't want to work with certain nurses. I don't know. All I know is that we had a near miss that came closer to being a hit by the fact that the nurses were too intimidated to do their jobs efficiently.”
Posted by Maggie Mahar on August 13, 2008 | Email this post
“The domination exhibited by physicians, particularly surgeons, is about far more than verbal abuse and yelling. I don't doubt those defending their experience who say that they haven't seen many angry tantrums by surgeons. But I think we're getting distracted by the most extreme displays so that we miss the very real and dangerous power dynamics here.
“I happen to have just been in the OR a couple of weeks ago with my wife, who was undergoing an emergency C-section. It was performed by obstetricians, as most are. There was one attending and one (I'm guessing) resident who was being trained during the operation. Their tone of voice and demeanor was perfectly pleasant throughout.
“But here's the thing: as far as they were concerned they were the center of the universe and everything in that room revolved around them. The patient and the nurses had the status of objects. They were oblivious to my wife and I as human beings, and never once spoke to us in the OR. That would have been fine if they were so focused on the operation that they didn't want distractions, but in fact they gabbed with each other throughout the procedure. I couldn't believe how many different things they found to talk about while cutting open and sewing up my wife. Some of it had to do with training, which is appropriate though a bit unnerving. Some of it had to do with office gossip, friends in common, etc., which is quite unprofessional. How many airline pilots do you know who make a habit of gabbing with their crews over the intercom throughout a flight? Or imagine that only the pilot and co-pilot would speak to each other, treating the flight attendants as worthy of communication only to issue orders.
“But all that was a minor annoyance to me, and I would not have commented on it except for the following: the nurses quite clearly lived in fear of the doctors. This was cemented for me when I saw two nurses counting up the sponges when it came time to start sewing up my wife. They went through ...17, 18, 19... one is missing. So, they count again. Same number. Count again. Same number. They talk to each other about a missing rag in perfectly normal voices 6 feet from me. I hear their concern. The doctors do not, though they hear each other loud and clear.
“Then, rather than make sure to get the physicians' attention, the nurses keep counting. I lost track of how many different times they poked and rearranged their piles of bloody sponges to try to make the final one appear. I could see the them laid out in rows on the floor, and it wasn't long before their behavior appeared pathological. After the 7th or 8th counting (who knows) with the exact same result, a nurse looks up at a doctor plaintively and starts to say something. She panics and it catches in her throat to make an inarticulate sound, but since she is only 3 feet from the doctors I still expect one of them to turn and ask 'what is it?' Doesn't happen.
“So, the nurses go counting again. And again. Meanwhile, the physicians are busy sewing up my wife. They are probably half-way done when finally a nurse summons the courage to speak up and say a sponge is missing.
“The doctors don't yell at her. They calmly start digging around in the uterus to find the final sponge. After some effort, they find it. There is no ‘thanks for pointing that out.’ Or, 'glad we caught that.' They went on as though nothing had happened. Now, you can say the nurses were just doing their jobs and didn't need thanking, and that if either of the physicians were thinking ‘Shit, I almost screwed up’ they wouldn't want to admit it in front of everyone, including the patient. I'm OK with that.
“What I'm not OK with is that the nurses are afraid to speak up and correct physicians even when it is essential to their job. One nurse finally overcame her fear this time, but I am not confident that it will happen every time at that hospital.
“I look back and wonder why I didn't say anything. It didn't even occur to me, because I saw myself as just a spectator and provider of support to my wife. In retrospect, I should have taken a different attitude, but it's hard when you are suddenly thrown into that environment. (Mother and child are both doing fine now, by the way.)
“The two physicians, I am sure, saw themselves as the paragons of civility and good manners. How they had their effect on the nurses I don't really know. Were they imperious outside of the OR? Did the attending have a reputation for blowing up when interrupted even if they didn't this time? If a nurse interrupts and she is wrong, does she get punished in more subtle or indirect ways? For all I know, the physicians are always civil to the nurses' faces and their intimidation came from an ability to give them low marks or decide that they don't want to work with certain nurses. I don't know. All I know is that we had a near miss that came closer to being a hit by the fact that the nurses were too intimidated to do their jobs efficiently.”
Posted by Maggie Mahar on August 13, 2008 | Email this post
Q. In our country, female's sexual safety is a big issue. Fifteen days back my wife underwent a surgery wherein she had to go in wearing a gown, which was very open. This too was removed when they started operating her. Now can you imagine 6 males were present in the operation theatre (OT). Initially there were 6 males only, then after 25 minutes a lady surgeon came in the OT and went away in another 25 minutes. After another 20 minutes my wife came out. After that when she was in the private room, the lady doctor came with a junior male doctor and asked me to move out so that they both could examine her. Now my question is that how valid are these rules? One side we take care of females in all places and on the other side, they have to be naked in front of male doctors and OT attendants. Please let me know if there is any clause, which can help a husband to be with his wife while examination of the wife and/or during surgery. Please answer.
A. You have raised an important question.
1. During surgical operations: The patients modesty is respected but many hospitals and clinics find it convenient to clothe the patient due for surgery in a gown rather than in shirt - pyjama or traditional feminine attire. The chief reason for the use of the gown is that it is easy to open after the patient is anaesthetised and it minimises the time spent in preparation of the patient for surgery. It is true that male doctors and other attendants are often required in the operation theatre but almost all theatre personnel are careful to respect the modesty of the female patient. In particular, when the gown is to be opened or re-applied at the end of surgery it is done by a female nurse. Likewise, during surgery, if it is necessary to take off all the clothes then the breasts, pelvis and perineum are covered by green towels unless surgery is to be performed on one of these areas.
2. In the patient’s room or ward: In teaching hospitals, after taking the permission of the patient, male students may be allowed to examine the female patient under the supervision of the teacher and in the presence of a female nurse. In all examinations of the female patient, a female nurse is present. On occasion, the husband and other relatives may be requested to step outside during examination of the female patient when the doctor may wish to learn personal details relating to the patient that she may find embarrassing to discuss in the presence of her relations. Let me give you an example. It is sometimes necessary to obtain information on sexual practices from the patient. You can see how the patient would be inhibited if male relatives are around. It is the right of every female patient to insist on the presence of a female nurse when any examination is performed on her. On most occasions, if the female patient insists on the presence of her husband during her examination, this will be respected and the husband asked to remain present.
When I was recalled to a Breast Care Centre of Excellence,a new unit within the large teaching hospital I go to for Crohn's, a month after my regular 3 yrly mammo at a travelling x-ray unit, my husband was specifically asked by the Director of the Clinic to come into the room where they did the ultrasound and core biopsy. He sat quietly in a corner whilst both procedures were carried out, by the Director, a Consultant Radiologist, with a breast care nurse also present. It was a sterile environment which I was comofrtable with. The local anaesthetic was enough so that I felt no pain, and we were both asked to look at the tumour on the ultrasound monitor. We were then under no illusion that I had a malignant tumour, and taken into a private office, given a cup of tea in bone china cups (and this, on the socialised National Health Service - unbelievable!) and a date for surgery! It was a roller coaster of a day and I doubt I would have been able to get through it, with a decision to be made there and then whether to have a mastectomy and no rads, or a Wide Local Excision (lumpectomy) with rads. I chose the latter with sample node removal, and unfortunately the cancer had spread to the lymph nodes, so back for more surgery, total axillary removal, and chemotherapy followed by rads and hormone therapy.
Perhaps things are done differently in England, but I was relieved that I didn't have to explain everything to my husband and he was able to be there for the initial diagnosis.
5 yrs down the line and NED (No Evidence of Disease), the best three words in the English language.
Perhaps things are done differently in England, but I was relieved that I didn't have to explain everything to my husband and he was able to be there for the initial diagnosis.
5 yrs down the line and NED (No Evidence of Disease), the best three words in the English language.
When I saw my surgeon for the first time, he asked me if I wanted to do the biopsy right then and there, or schedule it for a later time. I told him I would rather get it over with right then. One nurse was present. It was also one of those core biopsies and the doc used something like a gun and guided by a portable ultrasound. He did it in four different places after numbing the large area. The last one really hurt, and the nurse held my hand. I asked for a prescription for vicodin and drove myself home. I was glad I had the vicodin. My whole breast was black and green and it stayed like that for about 10 days, slowly getting better. Yet, it was bearable, just surprising because you don't know what to expect.
I had my core biopsy in my radiologist's' s office immediately after my Mammogram and Ultrasound via Ultrasound to locate the lesions.
\I was asked by staff if I wanted someone with me. I am sorry you can't have that support and I wish you the best. I had 10-12 core biopsy punches because of two lesions but I was lucky ;one was just a Reactive mammary lymph node.
virtually no pain after the local anesthetic was injected to the two areas; everything was very comfortable for me.
I did develop a hematoma but I've been on once a day baby ASA for years, so I didn't worry about my bluish-purplish breast after my doctor reminded me of that fact.
Good luck!
sass
\I was asked by staff if I wanted someone with me. I am sorry you can't have that support and I wish you the best. I had 10-12 core biopsy punches because of two lesions but I was lucky ;one was just a Reactive mammary lymph node.
virtually no pain after the local anesthetic was injected to the two areas; everything was very comfortable for me.
I did develop a hematoma but I've been on once a day baby ASA for years, so I didn't worry about my bluish-purplish breast after my doctor reminded me of that fact.
Good luck!
sass
You may find that you can drive yourself home just fine, but there are variables that are hard to predict. My procedure went well, but it took a very long time to actually get around to DOING it, plus I found it very hard to sleep the night before. I was totally exhausted, and really glad my husband was driving. A friend of mine had a much worse time, a lot of pain, and was driven home by a friend. I would recommend bringing a driver along if possible.
And, for the sake of giving credit to the military hospital, most everyone I dealt with was very professional. The 2 receptionists were a STRIKING contrast to this, and my doctor was heard by my husband in the waiting room discussing a patient's results and future appointments with her. But he was professional with me at least, and all of the assistants/nurses/techs, whatever their actual titles, were fabulous. The procedure itself was nearly painless, and I'm confident that it was done carefully and in a sterile manner.
I left you a note with my email address, in case you are interested, as we may live near one another.
And, for the sake of giving credit to the military hospital, most everyone I dealt with was very professional. The 2 receptionists were a STRIKING contrast to this, and my doctor was heard by my husband in the waiting room discussing a patient's results and future appointments with her. But he was professional with me at least, and all of the assistants/nurses/techs, whatever their actual titles, were fabulous. The procedure itself was nearly painless, and I'm confident that it was done carefully and in a sterile manner.
I left you a note with my email address, in case you are interested, as we may live near one another.
I had a biopsy yesterday in the surgeon's office, and my husband was also allowed to be present. The numbing was not enough, and the pain was unbelievable, both during the process and afterwards. I could not believe they took 3 cuttings like that without a more sterile environment and without greater numbing. I came home and raided the medicine cabinet for vicodin. The pain is much better now, just some bruising, but I am really weepy. I think maybe it is just the uncertainty. I am anxiously waiting for the results - one way or the other.
I too am a military spouse and getting ready to have mine done at shall I say the largest hospital in the nations Capital. The BC center here is the best and I trust my biopsy in a couple of weeks will be fine. My husband is retired but still works for the Army so he will be out of town and I will go to mine by myself. It is early in the morning and I hate to ask a friend to get up and go with me. Do I need someone to help me drive home?
Heck, at 7 weeks pregnant, BREATHING made me want to throw up. You poor thing! I glanced at your page--glad you have your beautiful baby!
blessings--
lkhcello
blessings--
lkhcello
Well, first off, I HATE, LOATHE and despise needles. Secondly, I was 7 weeks pregnant and really not wanting to even have the procedure done. Having a complicated pregnancy already and having a lump is stressful enough. Put that all in with the fact that I get overly stressed with needles in the first place...and you have a situation.
I made it through, it was not pleasant. HOWEVER, I am more than thankful that my husband was there and it was NOT done in a hospital environment where he could NOT be there.
My HSG testing was just about as painful as getting the biopsy...durn near fainted in that one, too.
I made it through, it was not pleasant. HOWEVER, I am more than thankful that my husband was there and it was NOT done in a hospital environment where he could NOT be there.
My HSG testing was just about as painful as getting the biopsy...durn near fainted in that one, too.
I appreciate everyone's answers. I was able to be confident enough to insist that my husband be present for all explanations and consent, which would not have happened without my insistence. He was not there for the procedure, which I was able to accept as normal. I am sorry, lhughes that your experience was so uncomfortable. I was numbed very thoroughly, and my worst pain was in my neck from being in that position for so long. My neck gets stiff pretty easily. Over all, it was quite bearable, although I'm glad it's over.
Thanks again, everyone, for your comments.
Thanks again, everyone, for your comments.
Your biopsy should NOT have been that uncomfortable ... I personally would not have agreed to this type of procedure in an office setting nor would I have ever done one. Sorry you had a bad experience ...
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