Magnesium Oxide or Citrate?

[bookworm79]

Which for deficiency.  Internet searches seem to contradict each other.

[Red_Star]

Pica seems the most likely reason for a vinegar craving in my opinion.  An electrolytes imbalance is a noted cause of a Charley horse.  The major electrolytes are sodium, potassium, chloride, calcium, magnesium, bicarbonate, phosphate, sulfate. Most commonly mentioned in regards to a Charley horse are potassium, calcium, sodium, and magnesium.

Electrolytes:

* Help control water balance and fluid distribution in the body
* Necessary for muscle contraction and nerve transmission
* Regulates the acidity (pH) of the blood
* Helps regulate the level of oxygen in the blood
* Involved in moving nutrients into cells and waste products out of cells

:)

[bookworm79]

Oh wow, thanks for the info.  Something in that struck me....potassium.  Lack of potassium causes cramping correct?  I get severe charlie horses in my feet, legs and even hands several times a day and even while sleeping.  Stretching, forget about it.  Every time I attempt to stretch, I got into cramping spasms.  I heard of pica but always thought it was people who ate dirt, pencils etc.  I even tried looking at articles online but everything seemed to be forum/opinion based and couldn't determine what was accurate or not.  Very interesting information.  Definitely food for thought.  I've had several vitamins/minerals checked but am thinking maybe I should have the whole panel checked.  I'm always magnesium, vitamin d, and iron deficient for sure but doctors don't usually check for a lot of these things outside of iron.  Hmmm.  I remember when I was little, we were very poor, and used vinegar and water to clean (of course, you don't have to be poor for that, lots of people use that combo)...so I always wanted to clean the windows and stuff and I would sneak behind a couch or in the corner and spray the bottle of vinegar water in my mouth.  Again, interesting.  Thanks for the detailed information.  

[Red_Star]

In plain vinegar, the ingredients are acetic acid and water. Clear apple cider vinegar has none of the benefits of raw organic apple cider vinegar. Through its processing and distilling, it’s been stripped of everything beneficial. Apple cider vinegar with the "mother" left in it has more than 40 vitamins and minerals.

It looks like you have a condition called Pica.

"Pica is a medical disorder characterized by an appetite for substances largely non-nutritive (e.g., metal, clay, coal, sand, dirt, soil, feces, chalk, pens and pencils, paper, batteries, spoons, toothbrushes, soap, mucus, ash, gum, lip balm, etc.) or an abnormal appetite for food ingredients (e.g. flour, raw potato, raw rice, starch, ice cubes, salt)." - Wikipedia.

Pica can be due to specific deficiencies of minerals, in particular iron and zinc; malnutrition (inadequate or unbalanced diet, problems with digestion or absorption, certain medical conditions eg: celiac); obsessive compulsive disorder; mental retardation; and developmental disabilities.  Pica is particularly seen in pregnant women (vinegar and pickle cravings! lol), small children, and with developmental disabilities such as autism.

The acetic acid content in vinegar may cause potassium depletion with long term use. There is a case report in which a 28 year old woman developed hypokalemia (potassium deficiency) drinking about 250 ml (8.45 oz) of vinegar every day for 6 years. Undiluted vinegar, in liquid or pill form, may damage the esophagus and other parts of the digestive tract over time.

[bookworm79]

Well there is possible damage.  You all are gonna think I'm nuts, but I have CRAVED vinegar since a kid and drank abnormal amounts of it.  No one has ever been able to tell me why.  I literally can taste it in anything.  My husband and family stopped buying it because they thought it was bad for me and one day my husband dumped some out and I finished off the A1 sauce because it has vinegar in it.  Never drank, smoked, done drugs in my life but couldn't give up the vinegar.  It's embarassing to say that.  People think it's funny and odd.  But now I wonder how much damage I did to my stomach all those years.  I'm sure there is 0 nutritional value in vinegar, especially apple cider, but I literally craved it.  I thought maybe it had some nutrient I was missing but I don't think it has anything in it.  Fortunately I haven't drank any in about 2 months finally.  But I'm sure the damage is already done.  

[Red_Star]

Inorganic forms do absorb but nowhere near as well. Magnesium oxide is the cheapest form of magnesium (and no wonder it's easy to find lol) and has been shown to have as low as a 4% absorption rate in one study. Also, vitamin B6 has been shown to increase intracellular uptake of magnesium.

Sounds like you have a malabsorption problem. This could be anything from low stomach acid to an injured intestinal lining. One home test you can try out is the baking soda test to see if you are producing enough stomach acid.  

The baking soda test.

Mix 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate, not baking powder) in an 8 ounce glass and drink it.

If sufficient quantities of acid are present in the stomach, bicarbonate of soda is converted into gas, producing significant bloating and belching within 5 or 10 minutes of drinking the mix.  Little or no belching is suspicious for low stomach acid.

[selmaS]

  hmmmm odd my DH got mine at CVS......

Did u watch ne of the videos on EDS .....u do not need to have the hypermoble joints to have it...it is just a more common symptom then the others....do check out the videos in the EDS group here on MedHelp...they r by a Dr that also has EDS and she does a good job explaining it all.

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Ehlers-Danlos-Syndrome/show/417?controller=forums&action=show&id=417&camp=msc

[bookworm79]

I actually called called Walmart and asked the pharmacist and they checked for me but didn't have any at the store.  I'm kinda surprised.  It's almost like you have to order it online.  My understanding is because mag ox is so cheap/easier to make?  Not sure if I understood all that.  I might order some.  The EDS thing sorta worries me since I started coming to this site.  I don't have double joints etc, but I feel I have a lot of symptoms of the vascular kind.  With the long road to Chiari and my history with doctors, I'm too afraid to get it checked.  But I am going to be getting a consulation at Mayfield Chiari Center soon and will obviously ask then because it would be stupid of me not to.  

[selmaS]

  I have the same issue and was told it is bcuz of the EDS dx I have.....we tend to have mal absorption issues b it from natural ways or supplements.

The best way to find what u r looking for, is talk to the Pharmacist....they r really good at pointing u in the right direction.

And they can look to other meds, or issues to make sure there r no interactions.....

  "selma"
  

[bookworm79]

Thanks for the breakdown.  I was trying to find malate or citrate at Walmart or somewhere and couldn't find it...not even in CVS or Walgreens.  So I called my gyno doc who is the one who just did my bloodwork and starting me on prescrip vitamins for the D deficiency etc and she told me to continue taking Mag Ox.  Which is odd because if it's not very soluble, how can my system get what it needs?  I was confused about that.  I'm starting to think something in my body is rejecting vitamins because I certainly don't "undereat" and I eat a variety of food, not just junk.  But yet I am chronically deficient of multiple vitamins.  I've been on meds for anemia for so long it's not funny and even taking those, I'm always slightly below or just making normal.  If I stop them all together, I'm severely anemic in very little time again.

[Red_Star]

There are two types of magnesium:

- soluble forms/organic* (aspartate, malate, glycinate, citrate and succinate etc)

- insoluble forms/inorganic salts (chloride, carbonate, oxide).

Organic* absorbs better than inorganic and is far less likely to cause loose stools/diarrhea.  Do not take magnesium supplements if you have kidney problems.

[selmaS]

  I have oxide....I have taken the citrate just b4 a colonoscopy......