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Man Dies Of Toothache
http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/09/03/311635/man-dies-of-toothache/
There’s a lot of waste in our health care system, but providing basic coverage and basic services to people who don’t have it adds a lot of value:
A 24-year-old Cincinnati father died from a tooth infection this week because he couldn’t afford his medication, offering a sobering reminder of the importance of oral health and the number of people without access to dental or health care.
According to NBC affiliate WLWT, Kyle Willis’ wisdom tooth started hurting two weeks ago. When dentists told him it needed to be pulled, he decided to forgo the procedure, because he was unemployed and had no health insurance.
When his face started swelling and his head began to ache, Willis went to the emergency room, where he received prescriptions for antibiotics and pain medications. Willis couldn’t afford both, so he chose the pain medications.
The tooth infection spread, causing his brain to swell. He died Tuesday.
Now, clearly, this man made some sub-optimal choices here he’s not purely a victim of lack of health insurance. At the same time you have right before you a no-longer-living, no-longer-breathing example of the “push the patient to the edge of financial desperation” theory of health care cost controls. It turns out that the quality of a frightened, pain-wracked young man asked to make technical medical decisions under severe financial constraints is not very high. The social cost of 24 year-old fathers dying of eminently treatable tooth infections, by contrast, is gigantic.
Due to our Countries financial situation, I think Health Care is going to the Back Burner for a while.
I am with you on what you said.
I also have family in Tn. and a family member went to visit there...no insurance....and she actually had a tooth infection...she said they let her walk in...and she paid 2.00 to be seen and then got the antibiotics for free until she could go back to her home state. She said in that state, people get free meds all the time and dr apt. are nothing.
I have no idea what that is all about...
I also have family in Tn. and a family member went to visit there...no insurance....and she actually had a tooth infection...she said they let her walk in...and she paid 2.00 to be seen and then got the antibiotics for free until she could go back to her home state. She said in that state, people get free meds all the time and dr apt. are nothing.
I have no idea what that is all about...
Quite a few years ago, I had a hernia surgery. It was a Workman's Comp claim as the injury happened at work. (This should have not even involved my insurance, but eventually did.) I followed protocol by seeing my primary care physician who in turn sent me to a surgeon. The surgeon set a date for the surgery and away we go.
The first problem we encountered was, we didn't notify them that there was a surgery necessary. (Mind you, since it was a workman's comp claim, they had all of the necessary paperwork and were talking with both doctors.) So, they were going to cancel or otherwise disallow the surgery.... Less than 8 hours later they okay'ed the surgery.
I have the surgery and eventually get a bill for a few hundred dollars. I ask workman's comp what the deal is and the gal tells me, "well, they used 2 of those items and they only should have used one so we have to bill you." I flew off the handle!!! They were not willing to budge so I had to do their work. I called the hospital, actually Dee Dee got that squared away for me but it took numerous phone calls.... it does not need to be that complicated.
The first problem we encountered was, we didn't notify them that there was a surgery necessary. (Mind you, since it was a workman's comp claim, they had all of the necessary paperwork and were talking with both doctors.) So, they were going to cancel or otherwise disallow the surgery.... Less than 8 hours later they okay'ed the surgery.
I have the surgery and eventually get a bill for a few hundred dollars. I ask workman's comp what the deal is and the gal tells me, "well, they used 2 of those items and they only should have used one so we have to bill you." I flew off the handle!!! They were not willing to budge so I had to do their work. I called the hospital, actually Dee Dee got that squared away for me but it took numerous phone calls.... it does not need to be that complicated.
This is a real tragic story, but the pharmacy I go to has quite a few FREE antibiotics, and so some others; then as teko said, many of them have antibiotics for $4. I also agree with whomever said "get rid of the infection, the pain will go away".......
I'm not happy with our health care system, and I'm one of the lucky ones with insurance. I think too much emphasis is actually put on *insurance* and whether or not it's affordable. If the cost of the CARE wasn't so out of line, the fact of whether or not one had insurance wouldn't be such a big issue, and possibly premiums would be more in line with what the everyday person can afford.
I think the biggest thing about a government run healthcare plan in the US is that the government wants to have their fingers too deep into it. If they would simply administer a plan, that would be one thing, but they've pretty much admitted that health care would be rationed; and why should I sit back and let some yahoo(s) in D.C. tell me whether or not my condition can/should be treated, and what is acceptable treatment and what isn't? But of course, with the politicians in D.C. all acting like a bunch of spoiled brats right now, I wouldn't want ANY of them trying to decide what my health care should be like!!
I've also heard that this is an issue in UK. I'm a CL on the thyroid forum here on MH and many of our members from UK, can't even get the proper tests or medications because their NHS says they aren't needed; therefore, patients can't get well. This is just as sad as someone who can't afford care.
I'm not happy with our health care system, and I'm one of the lucky ones with insurance. I think too much emphasis is actually put on *insurance* and whether or not it's affordable. If the cost of the CARE wasn't so out of line, the fact of whether or not one had insurance wouldn't be such a big issue, and possibly premiums would be more in line with what the everyday person can afford.
I think the biggest thing about a government run healthcare plan in the US is that the government wants to have their fingers too deep into it. If they would simply administer a plan, that would be one thing, but they've pretty much admitted that health care would be rationed; and why should I sit back and let some yahoo(s) in D.C. tell me whether or not my condition can/should be treated, and what is acceptable treatment and what isn't? But of course, with the politicians in D.C. all acting like a bunch of spoiled brats right now, I wouldn't want ANY of them trying to decide what my health care should be like!!
I've also heard that this is an issue in UK. I'm a CL on the thyroid forum here on MH and many of our members from UK, can't even get the proper tests or medications because their NHS says they aren't needed; therefore, patients can't get well. This is just as sad as someone who can't afford care.
Well, yeah, people are people and some still refuse to see a Dr. I certainly cannot argue that point.
Here is something to think about though...employers providing health insurance in pretty costly right? Makes me wonder if them having that cost eliminated might open the door to additional hiring? It's gotta be at least a possibility.
I think my fear of your system is probably for exactly the same reasons you fear ours. We always hear the scary stories. I'm not saying modeling our system is what is right for the US. Not trying to say that at all. I do think though, that everyone should have health care, I really do. Or at least an affordable option. It just seems to me that your folks Insurance Companies are far more involved in telling people (and Dr.'s) what they can and cannot do then what happens in our system. I guess I would kinda resent that. But, then again, I have only ever known 1 system and like you, have been satisfied with it. So it's hard to say really.
Here is something to think about though...employers providing health insurance in pretty costly right? Makes me wonder if them having that cost eliminated might open the door to additional hiring? It's gotta be at least a possibility.
I think my fear of your system is probably for exactly the same reasons you fear ours. We always hear the scary stories. I'm not saying modeling our system is what is right for the US. Not trying to say that at all. I do think though, that everyone should have health care, I really do. Or at least an affordable option. It just seems to me that your folks Insurance Companies are far more involved in telling people (and Dr.'s) what they can and cannot do then what happens in our system. I guess I would kinda resent that. But, then again, I have only ever known 1 system and like you, have been satisfied with it. So it's hard to say really.
This is probably along the lines of complacency, but I am satisfied with our system now. Maybe that is because I am insured and try to take pretty good care of myself. If I weren't insured, I don't know if I think I'd feel as if I were entitled for insurance though.... I don't know.
I hired a guy a few years back who never had health insurance, so getting hired on with us was a pretty big deal to him. As the probationary period eroded and his insurance kicked in, he ends up with a respiratory infection. 1 week later, he has the whole office sick with various levels of respiratory distress and he still wouldn't go to the doctor! This guy was self diagnosing his infection as viral and therefore a doctor couldn't to much except ease his mind. After everyone went through round 2 of this infection, I gave him a day off and made him go to the doctor.... we all ended up with a bacterial infection... me pneumonia, which in turn had me in the hospital for 3 days....
I wonder how many people if offered insurance coverage would still decline to see a doctor?
I hired a guy a few years back who never had health insurance, so getting hired on with us was a pretty big deal to him. As the probationary period eroded and his insurance kicked in, he ends up with a respiratory infection. 1 week later, he has the whole office sick with various levels of respiratory distress and he still wouldn't go to the doctor! This guy was self diagnosing his infection as viral and therefore a doctor couldn't to much except ease his mind. After everyone went through round 2 of this infection, I gave him a day off and made him go to the doctor.... we all ended up with a bacterial infection... me pneumonia, which in turn had me in the hospital for 3 days....
I wonder how many people if offered insurance coverage would still decline to see a doctor?
Well, as I said, we have a significantly smaller population then you folks do, and although the recession has hit us, it hasn't hit us nearly as hard as you..yet. I absolutely believe that our system needs work..it's far from perfect. It worked well when the working population at least mirrored that of the retired/unworking population.
You know, I always think that if all the various medical systems in place were properly analyzed, like most things, the best solution is probably a combination of things. Start with what works with your system. Take what works with ours. Start looking at ways to combine them while at the same time dealing with or eliminating what isn't working. The solution is there..probably for both countries. But like so many things, no one really wants to do the work. Partly, because no one wants to admit that their solution may be less then perfect.
You know, I always think that if all the various medical systems in place were properly analyzed, like most things, the best solution is probably a combination of things. Start with what works with your system. Take what works with ours. Start looking at ways to combine them while at the same time dealing with or eliminating what isn't working. The solution is there..probably for both countries. But like so many things, no one really wants to do the work. Partly, because no one wants to admit that their solution may be less then perfect.
Okay.... paid for by taxes and everyone pays into it, correct? Not everyone pays taxes here. People on both ends of the spectrum avoid paying taxes, even some in the middle avoid taxes through one means or another. And everything you said about your system seems beautiful, but you did mention the big short coming. People aren't having kids fast enough to keep the tax money coming in. When that happens, then what? Do you raise taxes again? How much taxes can the retired afford?
There just has to be something better. I am glad what you guys have is working. You did however mention some worries down the road. And with the government just being administrators.... our government is having a hard enough time with what they have. Trying to administrate over health care is sure to be a debacle in this country. These knuckle heads can't even govern, let alone administrate.....
Cobra... hear of Cobra insurance? When one loses a job here, they can pay for Cobra. Cobra on average costs 1/2 again as much as my employers are paying now. I can go find insurance cheaper than Cobra....
There just has to be something better. I am glad what you guys have is working. You did however mention some worries down the road. And with the government just being administrators.... our government is having a hard enough time with what they have. Trying to administrate over health care is sure to be a debacle in this country. These knuckle heads can't even govern, let alone administrate.....
Cobra... hear of Cobra insurance? When one loses a job here, they can pay for Cobra. Cobra on average costs 1/2 again as much as my employers are paying now. I can go find insurance cheaper than Cobra....
It's fully funded through taxes. So the gov't acts as the Insurance Company, but I think what is confusing for many about this, is that they assume the gov't behaves the same way as some of your Insurance Companies do. For example, I know that some of your Insurance Companies do things like determine which Dr.'s you can see (from a list), or what hospital they work with or even which conditions they will or will not cover.
We have pretty much none of that. There is absolutely not a bit of interference. Sometimes they won't cover experimental treatments of course, but that is about it. Zero interference. The Dr. (with you of course) determines what you need and when you need it.
Now, it does not cover things like prescriptions and dental. However, you can get emergency treatment if a tooth needs to come out or something and that would be covered.
The reason it works is because every one pays into it. Everyone is covered. Not everyone will require the same level of medical treatment in their lifetime..makes sense right? Also, we tend to be faster to seek preventative medical care, which we all know makes various issues far more treatable. And lastly..your taxes are already paying to fund emergency room visits for those that can't afford insurance right? Trust me, emergency room visits cost a whole lot more then a trip to the Dr. But where an emergency room probably won't turn away someone who can't afford it, a Dr.'s office will. Plus, you have medicare. We don't need that because you are covered from birth to death. So everyone is paying into the same system, and benefiting from it.
THere are other ways this saves money. Our Dr's don't spend any time arguing with an Insurance Company, trying to get something covered. Billing is far simpler, therefor less expensive. And best of all, no parent has to worry about losing their home and everything else in seeking treatment for their sick child. We do not worry about an illness bankrupting us.
But I really think that is the biggest misconception with regards to our Health Care system..that the gov't somehow is involved in our care. Absolutely not true. They collect and administrate...that is the end of the involvement.
The biggest issues right now with our system is the amount of laid off or non working people. Plus, being an aging population, there is an extra burden as people do not have enough kids to really make it work properly anymore. That's why immigration (legal) and some other things are important to our country. But I can tell you..if anyone ever tried to change our medical system, I am pretty sure it would spark a civil war..lol.
We have pretty much none of that. There is absolutely not a bit of interference. Sometimes they won't cover experimental treatments of course, but that is about it. Zero interference. The Dr. (with you of course) determines what you need and when you need it.
Now, it does not cover things like prescriptions and dental. However, you can get emergency treatment if a tooth needs to come out or something and that would be covered.
The reason it works is because every one pays into it. Everyone is covered. Not everyone will require the same level of medical treatment in their lifetime..makes sense right? Also, we tend to be faster to seek preventative medical care, which we all know makes various issues far more treatable. And lastly..your taxes are already paying to fund emergency room visits for those that can't afford insurance right? Trust me, emergency room visits cost a whole lot more then a trip to the Dr. But where an emergency room probably won't turn away someone who can't afford it, a Dr.'s office will. Plus, you have medicare. We don't need that because you are covered from birth to death. So everyone is paying into the same system, and benefiting from it.
THere are other ways this saves money. Our Dr's don't spend any time arguing with an Insurance Company, trying to get something covered. Billing is far simpler, therefor less expensive. And best of all, no parent has to worry about losing their home and everything else in seeking treatment for their sick child. We do not worry about an illness bankrupting us.
But I really think that is the biggest misconception with regards to our Health Care system..that the gov't somehow is involved in our care. Absolutely not true. They collect and administrate...that is the end of the involvement.
The biggest issues right now with our system is the amount of laid off or non working people. Plus, being an aging population, there is an extra burden as people do not have enough kids to really make it work properly anymore. That's why immigration (legal) and some other things are important to our country. But I can tell you..if anyone ever tried to change our medical system, I am pretty sure it would spark a civil war..lol.
I re read my post and I sound like a wize arse, and that is not my intention. Sorry for it coming across that way. With that said, this article I think is sad. Do people not realize that dental problems can cause other health problems as well. It is well known that periodontal gum disease is connected with heart issues and infections. And for this to go to the brain, who the pain that must have been involved. I also dont know about Ohio, but here in FL, our pharmacys have antibiotics on the list of cheap. You can get them for 4 dollars at Walmart and most groceries. Does Ohio not have that? 24 years old, wow.
I am amazed at the absolute lack of knowledge about the Health care plan. It would be different if those opposed actually knew something about the plan and could disagree with it on its merits. I dont know where anyone gets that anyone wants free healthcare for starters. The ONLY free healthcare that I am familiar with are those on state assistance and get medicaid. I will not waste my time getting into the particulars because frankly at this point in time, those who dont know, dont know out of choice so what good would it do me.
I wrote my Insurance company where I carry manadatory car insurance and put about 200 big ones out a month , told them that making me carry it is unconstitutional. They laughed and said. Oh yea? Well drop it and see what happens to ya...... Hmmmm I have not had a claim ever in my life yet 200 big ones go out every single month like clockwork just because I am told I have to. So I have decided that if this health care package is constitutional, so is the mandatory health insurance as well. So is the social security I have to pay and the medicare and for that matter IRS in general. Right? I mean, would that not be true? Im confused.
I wrote my Insurance company where I carry manadatory car insurance and put about 200 big ones out a month , told them that making me carry it is unconstitutional. They laughed and said. Oh yea? Well drop it and see what happens to ya...... Hmmmm I have not had a claim ever in my life yet 200 big ones go out every single month like clockwork just because I am told I have to. So I have decided that if this health care package is constitutional, so is the mandatory health insurance as well. So is the social security I have to pay and the medicare and for that matter IRS in general. Right? I mean, would that not be true? Im confused.
Now that I think about it, I think it was either Romney or someone else trying to unseat Bush before he got elected to his second term.
I don't know, I just think that the government has a hard enough time with politics, then you go and put insurance into the mix and it will just create more issues.
I don't know, I just think that the government has a hard enough time with politics, then you go and put insurance into the mix and it will just create more issues.
hmmmm never heard of the insurance voucher.. but I have no trust in gov.
I wish I could remember the politician that was trying to make this the model of health care. Basically it was him who didn't have answers as to who could see what doctor, and that caused all of the speculation. When asked the "what if's" he had no answers.... he couldn't clarify a thing.
Let me ask you this.... how does your government come up with the funding for this program?
Let me ask you this.... how does your government come up with the funding for this program?
Just a quick comment, because you all already know I think it works.
You know we have it hear. Now, as for the cost, I cannot comment - your country has a way way bigger population then mine. But I can comment on gov't interference. There is none, nada. There is also no insurance company interference at all. So, all health decisions are made between me and my Dr., period. No one tells me what to eat, or even whether or not to smoke or drink. Sure, my Dr. makes suggestions, but my health care is not dependent on any of these things. I can choose my own Dr. and switch if I am not happy. It's not even from a list provided by my health care company. I can go to any hospital, seek treatment at any clinic, so on and so forth. You get the idea..the only person who is involved is my Dr.
I just like to make sure everyone knows how our system works when I see posts like this...I think it's important to know all the facts.
You know we have it hear. Now, as for the cost, I cannot comment - your country has a way way bigger population then mine. But I can comment on gov't interference. There is none, nada. There is also no insurance company interference at all. So, all health decisions are made between me and my Dr., period. No one tells me what to eat, or even whether or not to smoke or drink. Sure, my Dr. makes suggestions, but my health care is not dependent on any of these things. I can choose my own Dr. and switch if I am not happy. It's not even from a list provided by my health care company. I can go to any hospital, seek treatment at any clinic, so on and so forth. You get the idea..the only person who is involved is my Dr.
I just like to make sure everyone knows how our system works when I see posts like this...I think it's important to know all the facts.
No. There was an insurance voucher program getting kicked around. I just didn't understand the program. Basically, the program was insurance.... but they called it vouchers. (It reminded me a lot like a workman's comp plan. You could use your doctor, but if you had to see a specialist, the program chose on for you. The doctor is supposed to be qualified, but you couldn't choose... could not get a second opinion.)
To me, it limited health care. I don't know. The more I looked at it the more confused I got. This goes back to the campaign trail...
To me, it limited health care. I don't know. The more I looked at it the more confused I got. This goes back to the campaign trail...
Are you talking about the voucher plan for schools?
That to me would have been such a great thing, but the reason it was protested against was because the public schools wanted the money to go to them...and if people could use their tax money to go to an alternative school, then they would lose money.
Of course...that meant.....
Send your kid to a lousy school (not all), but for many of us...so they could keep the funds they have now, which obviously were benefiting SOMEONE... but not the run down gross building, and not the students....We had teachers that should have been teaching math, but instead playing movies twice a week in class. We had teachers iwth out of control classrooms.
The answer for some of us was....private school. With private school you can get a great education as well as pick if you want it to have the same religious beliefs as yourslelf ..which kept issues at bay...like sex ed taught in line with your beliefs, or no homework on Wed. nights so the kids can attend church...etc....
It really made zero sense to get rid of it because it would have made schools more competitive, and they would have had to deal with the issues they often ignore...like lousy teachers, out of control kids etc...
That to me would have been such a great thing, but the reason it was protested against was because the public schools wanted the money to go to them...and if people could use their tax money to go to an alternative school, then they would lose money.
Of course...that meant.....
Send your kid to a lousy school (not all), but for many of us...so they could keep the funds they have now, which obviously were benefiting SOMEONE... but not the run down gross building, and not the students....We had teachers that should have been teaching math, but instead playing movies twice a week in class. We had teachers iwth out of control classrooms.
The answer for some of us was....private school. With private school you can get a great education as well as pick if you want it to have the same religious beliefs as yourslelf ..which kept issues at bay...like sex ed taught in line with your beliefs, or no homework on Wed. nights so the kids can attend church...etc....
It really made zero sense to get rid of it because it would have made schools more competitive, and they would have had to deal with the issues they often ignore...like lousy teachers, out of control kids etc...
Every plan seems to be a filter down plan and that means that the US tax payer will be funding the project. I never understood the "voucher" program that was being kicked around for a while, but even it had that filter down look to it.
You know, in a perfect world, health care would be provided for no cost to everyone... so would food, water, clothing, shelter, etc. The American tax payer cannot fund every single feel good program that comes down hill into DC. We just can't. I'd love for that to happen, but it simply is not realistic.
You know, in a perfect world, health care would be provided for no cost to everyone... so would food, water, clothing, shelter, etc. The American tax payer cannot fund every single feel good program that comes down hill into DC. We just can't. I'd love for that to happen, but it simply is not realistic.
I know..I feel like its a no win situation
I have mixed emotions about the insurance debacle. I don't think the government can make anyone have insurance. I just don't see how it will be paid for.... it is too big and costs too much money now with all of the fraud being pumped through the system.
I think if the government gets too involved, they then can tell us what we can eat/not eat and so on and project themselves further into our private lives. I just really do not like the idea.
I think if the government gets too involved, they then can tell us what we can eat/not eat and so on and project themselves further into our private lives. I just really do not like the idea.
And of course if the economy is bad....they need prove they tried to get work, within a reasonable driving distance, and someone should follow up on this, especially with younger people to be sure they are not just refusing to work jobs they dont like.
I have got it....
What I would like, is this....
Insurace is optional for everyone.....NOT FORCED
Insurance will be provided by the government for those in need...who work full time (unless they are unable to work...and in order to be unable to work, they have to have a doctors evaluation each year...by their doctor and a gov. doctor...
What I would like, is this....
Insurace is optional for everyone.....NOT FORCED
Insurance will be provided by the government for those in need...who work full time (unless they are unable to work...and in order to be unable to work, they have to have a doctors evaluation each year...by their doctor and a gov. doctor...
This is so sad...
I am not putting blame on him...but I cant help but wonder...
Was he unemployed because he chose to be?...OR
Was he unemployed becuase he couldnt find work?
Dont misunderstand me..he did not deserve to suffer regardless of the answer to that...
but I do wonder if the intent of the article is to convince people that we need to have that free medical for everyone...
I know...lots of you on here are for it... I am not...but not because I dont want others to have medical care...
I am not putting blame on him...but I cant help but wonder...
Was he unemployed because he chose to be?...OR
Was he unemployed becuase he couldnt find work?
Dont misunderstand me..he did not deserve to suffer regardless of the answer to that...
but I do wonder if the intent of the article is to convince people that we need to have that free medical for everyone...
I know...lots of you on here are for it... I am not...but not because I dont want others to have medical care...
Kind of a tragic story, but I personally would have filled the antibiotics over the pain meds. (the infection causes the pain...get rid of infection, pain goes bye bye.)
I just saw a deal today on HLN or something about printing your pharmacies cheap/generic drug list and asking doctors to prescribe from that list if possible.
I just saw a deal today on HLN or something about printing your pharmacies cheap/generic drug list and asking doctors to prescribe from that list if possible.
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