Aa
And yet ......
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=195272190
"Most wind energy manufacturers are in Republican districts, and most wind energy production comes out of Republican districts. So for Republicans to be against wind energy, they're hurting their own constituents."
This is another example of how non-representative our government has become. 'Representatives' vote the way the lobbyists tell them to. And yeah -- both sides.
"Most wind energy manufacturers are in Republican districts, and most wind energy production comes out of Republican districts. So for Republicans to be against wind energy, they're hurting their own constituents."
This is another example of how non-representative our government has become. 'Representatives' vote the way the lobbyists tell them to. And yeah -- both sides.
I found this from WIKI answers...
"Contrary to popular belief, the process of manufacturing solar panels can and does create enormous amounts of harmful and toxic waste. Because the most of the solar panels consumed in the west are manufactured in China, the nature and extent of this pollution is hidden from the consumers of solar panels. We get the illusion of 'green, clean energy' on our shores, by exporting environmental ruin to the countries where the panels are manufactured. Polysilicon manufacturing yields the byproduct silicon tetrachloride, a highly dangerous and toxic chemical. On September 19, in 2011, a village in eastern China rioted against a local solar panel manufacturing firm for dumping harmful and toxic chemicals into its river and poisoning the local fishing industry. In 2010, the Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition conducted a survey of manufacturing and found that solar manufacturers were using lead (a powerful neurotoxin), cadmium (a known carcinogen), and the greenhouse gas nitrogen triflouride in the creation of their products."
When I lived in Israel in the 8o's, everyone had solar heating panels. We had cool showers when the sun wasn't out and nobody cared. You really adapt and life really is bearable with a 2 min.shower contrary to what a lot of ppl here think. But, I digress, as usual.
So Israel has had solar panel for a long time. I tried to find out how they deal with the toxic waste but all I could find was hype and advertisements.
Okay so far I don't know and like you brice I am cautious about jumping on a bandwagon that is a front for a clean environment. I imagine there are people who have answers so this may be a rather lengthy thread over time. That is a good thing, learning. :)
"Contrary to popular belief, the process of manufacturing solar panels can and does create enormous amounts of harmful and toxic waste. Because the most of the solar panels consumed in the west are manufactured in China, the nature and extent of this pollution is hidden from the consumers of solar panels. We get the illusion of 'green, clean energy' on our shores, by exporting environmental ruin to the countries where the panels are manufactured. Polysilicon manufacturing yields the byproduct silicon tetrachloride, a highly dangerous and toxic chemical. On September 19, in 2011, a village in eastern China rioted against a local solar panel manufacturing firm for dumping harmful and toxic chemicals into its river and poisoning the local fishing industry. In 2010, the Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition conducted a survey of manufacturing and found that solar manufacturers were using lead (a powerful neurotoxin), cadmium (a known carcinogen), and the greenhouse gas nitrogen triflouride in the creation of their products."
When I lived in Israel in the 8o's, everyone had solar heating panels. We had cool showers when the sun wasn't out and nobody cared. You really adapt and life really is bearable with a 2 min.shower contrary to what a lot of ppl here think. But, I digress, as usual.
So Israel has had solar panel for a long time. I tried to find out how they deal with the toxic waste but all I could find was hype and advertisements.
Okay so far I don't know and like you brice I am cautious about jumping on a bandwagon that is a front for a clean environment. I imagine there are people who have answers so this may be a rather lengthy thread over time. That is a good thing, learning. :)
Transparency... Exactly, and it is completely insane to accept one poison over the other when they are both derived from the same raw product.
We've got to do better. I don't know how, but I am not throwing all of my beans in the pot on alternative energy production right yet.
We've got to do better. I don't know how, but I am not throwing all of my beans in the pot on alternative energy production right yet.
What we don't know about the production of their products is what they hope to keep under the radar,
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I am not disagreeing as I said, I just don't know enough yet but one thing is clear in my mind. "Green" energy has to be above board and transparent. I know regulatory commissions are not popular with a lot of folks but there has to be a way to keep the industry in check. It is unfathomable to me that we would swing from one poison to another. How insane is that?
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I am not disagreeing as I said, I just don't know enough yet but one thing is clear in my mind. "Green" energy has to be above board and transparent. I know regulatory commissions are not popular with a lot of folks but there has to be a way to keep the industry in check. It is unfathomable to me that we would swing from one poison to another. How insane is that?
Don't be so quick to say that these by-products are the lesser of 2 evils. The fact is, we don't really know how toxic some of these by-products really are. (I posted something a while back about a solar panel producer in Oregon whose site is one of the most polluted, most toxic areas in the west.)
The article I posted told of how the government spent all kinds of money cleaning the site but that it was still something like 10 times more toxic than they'd allow human entry. They've tested the soil and the water table and it is all toxic....
I think these people are trying to pander to our emotions. What we don't know about the production of their products is what they hope to keep under the radar,
The article I posted told of how the government spent all kinds of money cleaning the site but that it was still something like 10 times more toxic than they'd allow human entry. They've tested the soil and the water table and it is all toxic....
I think these people are trying to pander to our emotions. What we don't know about the production of their products is what they hope to keep under the radar,
I am all for wind power, but something else I don't understand is a lot of the greenies around here don't realize that the blades on those windmills are generally based on a petroleum product.
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Well this greenie is still getting educated so I don't really know a lot but I am aware that man made products like the solar panels and petroleum based products are a problem. I do not yet know the answer to that but I imagine it is the lesser of evils. Less toxic to the environment than say fracking and tar sands. Nevertheless it is a good point and hopefully it is a concern that is being addressed.
About the "pork" if that is the case, I agree with you but it seems like Washington runs by a different game. :(
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Well this greenie is still getting educated so I don't really know a lot but I am aware that man made products like the solar panels and petroleum based products are a problem. I do not yet know the answer to that but I imagine it is the lesser of evils. Less toxic to the environment than say fracking and tar sands. Nevertheless it is a good point and hopefully it is a concern that is being addressed.
About the "pork" if that is the case, I agree with you but it seems like Washington runs by a different game. :(
T. Boone Pickens is an oil tycoon, also very involved with wind power/wind farms, and is also a republican.
This is just a guess, but I think that when or if we could really get down to a lot of the legislation on this, what may look like a bold face hold up might have a lot to do with all of the pork attached to the bill.
We kind of discussed this the other day about farm bills being only about farm bills, etc. That isn't the way we do things here... we complicate the hell out of everything until it is so convoluted that we have to fall back on the core idea behind the legislation, even though there will be so much garbage attached to it.
This is just a guess, but I think that when or if we could really get down to a lot of the legislation on this, what may look like a bold face hold up might have a lot to do with all of the pork attached to the bill.
We kind of discussed this the other day about farm bills being only about farm bills, etc. That isn't the way we do things here... we complicate the hell out of everything until it is so convoluted that we have to fall back on the core idea behind the legislation, even though there will be so much garbage attached to it.
From the article, Ludden mentions something about "taunting" the republicans. The democrats are so concerned with getting things done, so they taunt or try to intimidate? It is the very same thing that they accuse the republicans of doing.... I don't understand that.
I am all for wind power, but something else I don't understand is a lot of the greenies around here don't realize that the blades on those windmills are generally based on a petroleum product. Extract the petroleum (which causes a few different kinds of pollution, not to mention it burns fossil fuels), refine the product (which again burns fossil fuels creating more pollution and also creates a toxic waste product) manufacture the blades (which burns more fossil fuels and creates another kind of waste product).... It just goes on and on.
I find the argument redundant at this point in time. At least until we ca produce a viable source of alternative energy that uses far, far less fossil fuels to create.
I am all for wind power, but something else I don't understand is a lot of the greenies around here don't realize that the blades on those windmills are generally based on a petroleum product. Extract the petroleum (which causes a few different kinds of pollution, not to mention it burns fossil fuels), refine the product (which again burns fossil fuels creating more pollution and also creates a toxic waste product) manufacture the blades (which burns more fossil fuels and creates another kind of waste product).... It just goes on and on.
I find the argument redundant at this point in time. At least until we ca produce a viable source of alternative energy that uses far, far less fossil fuels to create.
I hope the Republicans don't stand in the way of this...could they really be such fools?
*Why* would anyone in their right mind oppose wind energy? The oil industry has a hold on them? Why would anyone oppose clean air? I don't get it..Better to frack for oil and poison wells?
This country is being run by greedy lunatics.
I think I need to become a green revolutionary or something...this is untenable.
*Why* would anyone in their right mind oppose wind energy? The oil industry has a hold on them? Why would anyone oppose clean air? I don't get it..Better to frack for oil and poison wells?
This country is being run by greedy lunatics.
I think I need to become a green revolutionary or something...this is untenable.
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