Scratching my head

[sable03]

I have an 8 year old GSD, who became incontinent out of nowhere.  No big deal.  So, I took her to the vet to be checked out.  The vet examined her and they did a urinalysis and a urine culture.  Both those tests came back negative for any infection, but the vet commented that my dogs was very dilute, and that is not a good thing.  So she recommended some more blood work, to check her kidneys, etc  and ask me to bring in the urin from the dog's frist pee in the morning.  I did this and the specific gravity was 1.020.  The vet called me back and said the blood work looks great.  She had mention renal failure and Cushing's, so I imagine whatever information from the blood work indicated that those two issues were elimated.  However, the vet says that the urine is still dilute, in her opinion and they want to do a ultrasound of my dogs internal organs.  I am scratching my head.  This started out as an incontinence issue, and now I have no idea what could be the possible causes of this so-called dilute urine.  I do have to admit that my dog has been drinking more and more water lately, and she also has not been that hungry,  

Any thoughts.  Givin the symstoms does anyone have any ideas of what this could be.  So there is no tract, bladder, or kidney infection.  No cushings, no diabeties, no renal failure.  I am just using using common sense, but I would imagine that the dilute urine is do to the excessive water drinking.  But, what is causing the is the excessive water drinking?? What came first the chicken or the egg.  

If i was to limit her water intake and then test it and if the specific gravity goes up, does that then mean that there might not be any medical issue, but simplyt she is taking in more water thus it's specific gravity is lower.   If anyone had any other thought on what this could be, I would appreciate a response.  Sorry for the length of this post, but I wanted to get the facts in there    

[peekawho]

I swear, our dogs have had every medical complication known to veterinary medicine.  Intussceptions, osteosarcoma, cardiomyopathy, you name it.

Glad Doc's doing better!   Vomiting/diarrhea workups are very expensive.  And not fun for you or the dog!  

[Jaybay]

We got Doc's blood work back, and it's obviously some kind of GI-tract infection.  Lord only knows where he's been or what he picked up while in the county shelter.  He's been on antibiotics since Thursday evening, and NO MORE VOMITING since then!  He's eating well, and acting great so hopefully whatever bug got hold of him has been defeated.  :-)

peek - I thought the same thing, but he didn't quite fit that profile.  I'm so glad we dodged that particular bullet, and know it's more common in large, deep-chested breeds.  Your poor George!  I am so sorry for you both having to go through an infarction.  Can't even imagine...  :-(

[peekawho]

To me, vomiting 4-5 hours after a meal and bringing up undigested food suggests a blockage or motility issue in the small bowel.  

Has he had any barium studies of his entire GI tract?  I'm wondering too, if perhaps his small bowel isn't moving the food through in a normal way.  

The other thing that comes to mind is a mild, recurring intussception.  They can sometimes seem to come and go.  George (one of our dobes) had an intussception that wasn't diagnosed until he died after he completely obstructed.  He had trouble all his life with off and on vomiting.  Until his last day on earth, when he obstructed completely and no one caught it until his entire bowel infarcted.  

[kll129]

That's curious....   What about hiatal (sp?) hernia--I had a human neighbor with this problem which caused her to get up and leave the table during meals (due to the food just not going down--therefore, undigested and coming up).  It is likely this wouldn't show up in blood or urine.  Doc is a lucky dog because his human is responsible and seeking help.  : )

[Jaybay]

Yes!  We did that a couple weeks ago at my request, and his blood sugar was spot-on normal.  Because Doc is vomiting pretty much daily, we went back yesterday for the hour-long examination of everything.  His x-rays show everything is normal, anatomy where it's supposed to be, no kidney or bladder stones - just a lot of gas.  Didn't need an x-ray to tell me that!  LOL!  Had tons of blood taken for testing everything the vet can think of, and now only lack a urinalysis.  Why?  Because that dog just will NOT pee when we need him to!  I'm pretty sneaking with a sample cup, but the second I pop it under the stream he cuts it off, turns around and looks at me like, "MOM!  What are you DOING?!"  We'll keep on trying.  I know I'll nail him yet.  :-)

The vet thinks it's some GI tract issue because he's vomiting undigested food - even after 4 to 6 hours.  It just sits there unmoving.  Most of the time he seems to be his usual high-energy, playful self, but every 5 or 6 days he's really ill.  Not wanting to anything but lay on the couch and groan.  Methinks we now know why he was dumped and ended up as a rescue dog.  This happens so often when people can't (or won't) spend the money to treat their pets' medical problems.  Not that we're made of money either, but it's something you accept when you have a pet and you're a responsible owner.  

[kll129]

Have they checked your dog for diabetes?  Excessive drinking is a recurrent symptom; incontinence occurs when blood sugar is high and therefore (even in sleep) they can't hold it and tend to leak urine.  You may find sticky spots on the floor.  Vomitting happens when the sugar levels are high; lethary when its low--both extremes can be dangerous.  My dog gets two shots of insulin a day.

k

[LL7970]

If all tests end up coming up negatve ... ask the doctor about putting her on a med called pro-in.  It works wonders !  

[sable03]

UPDATE and clarification:

My GSD had not had any vomiting at all.  

I have something else I want to mention to see if anyone has any thoughts.  About 2 weeks ago, I did change the soft food that I give my GSD. I supplement the kibble with the soft food to make it more tasteful for her.

Anyway, as time has gone on, she eats less and less of it.  I also give a younger GSD puppy I have the same food.  He will eat anything but the older one won't.

I have this theory that she may have started drinking more and more water in an effort to fill her belly, instead of eating this new food.  Today, I decided to go back to the prior soft food.  My theory is that if she has been supplementing herself with large volumes of water to fill her belly, that now I have her old favorite food, the water intake will decrease because she will eat.

I just gave her a bowl and she eat it up.  She drank a little water after , but no where near as much as she has been.  I am going to watch her water intake for the next week.  If it decreases, I am going to take her pee into the vet so they can do a specific gravity.  If the numbers are up and then stay up, I am going to assume that I am a genius.  I have no idea if this is the reason, and I have not ruled out any medical conditions.  My problem is that other than in incontinence at night while she sleeps and the diluted urine, there are no other systems.  No diarreha, no vomiting, she's playful, and everything else seems normal,  

I will keep you posted.  And thanks so much for responding to my post.

[Jaybay]

I wouldn't completely rule out the beginnings of renal failure.  DO get copies of the blood and UA lab work.  You can post those results to Dr. Cheng on the Ask a Vet forum for a free opinion of what she might see is going on.  Sometimes disease processes don't show up in the early stages, so be prepared to repeat the labs in the future.  Many times the symptoms of renal failure don't show up until the process is too far gone to arrest it, so keep a close eye on symptoms.  Vomiting along with urinary issues and excessive drinking can indicate a severe kidney problem.  All you can do is keep up with the lab work and treat the symptoms accordingly.  

If I were in your shoes, I would go ahead and assume a problem exists with the kidneys and begin limiting phosphorus in your dog's diet.  Here is a great article about kidney disease and how to deal with it.  It became my Bible for dealing with Chica in her last months.  It's about 40 pages printed, and I found it easier to browse through in printed format...  http://www.dogaware.com/kidney.html

[peekawho]

Our Dobe Jake goes through these very odd cycles with excessive drinking/urination and has been through several extensive workups for Cushings and other systemic/renal diseases over the past few years.  His specific gravity at one point was 1.000!  He has had a propensity for UTI's at times, but that doesn't seem to be your dogs problem at all.  

We've had to just scratch our heads and limit his H2O intake when he seems to be starting one of his cycles.  The vet gave me the suggested guidelines for water intake for his weight, and that's what we do when he gets this way.  So far, its worked.  We just portion out the water during the day, rather than let him gulp it all down at once.

For our dog, it is assumed that it is behavioral.  Rule out everything physical first.  Good luck!  

[aggieone]

Has she vomited at all.  Reason I am asking, Sandy Grace (we just lost her to renal failure)  was constantly drinking water, more and more.  Right after she would drink the water, she would throw up-Our thoughts at the time was too much water.  We would monitor her as she drank her water; would say "Sandy Grace, that is enough."  She was such a good baby, she always listened, but went more frequently to her water bowl.  Her appetite was excellent.  She got bloodwork once a year and all seemed fine, no elevated numbers to indicate anything was wrong.  Two weeks before  Christmas, she started throwing up, we thought it was because we had changed her dog food,   We put her back on her regular dogfood, she still threw up.  (During this time too, my daughter brought her baby over (Lilly)   Lily had an upset tummy and with vet visit-Gastritis virus was the diagnosis.  We thought, O.K.  Sandy Grace has caught Lilly's virus, but decided we needed get Sandy Grace to the vet anyway as she needed something to calm her tummy.  Blood Work indicated that she was suffering from renal failure.  We were devastated.  

Many vet visits for Sandy Grace throuhout the year, from cutting her toenails,  (she was an inside baby) regular check ups, shots, ear infections,  etc.  Nothing was noted, and we have an excellent vet.  

After Cissy (that was her nickname) was diagnosed, we immediately took her to a specialist who did an ultrasousnd.  We found out that day that our Cissy only had one kidney.  The other kidney looked like a dried up raisin on the ultrasound.  It broke our hearts.  According to the specialist, one of two things could have happened- the bad kidney could have been lost due to an accident or abuse, or she was born that way.  We could not believe it.  We rescued Sandy Grace several years ago, and the day we brought her home, we took her to the vet for a check up. We had no way of knowing if she lost her kidney through abuse or was born that way.   She has been so healthy throughout the years, but the specialist said her good kidney had just worn out.  No symptoms, nothing to indicate ANYTHING was wrong until six weeks before her death.  Unfortunately, with renal failure, the symptoms may not show up until it is too late.  The kidneys (or kidney is Cissy's case do not heal, there is nothing you can do) Please allow the ultrasound, you may see an early "something" that can be fixed.  Hopefully, it is nothing.  I wish you good luck with your baby and find that all is well.  Aggieone