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Unexplained muscle pain in neck / shoulders / extremities
Hi, I first posted this in the 'undiagnosed' section but I'm wondering if I could have fibro.
I know it's uncommon for a male to have it, and I'm a very healthy 37 year old. But on 9/18/07 I woke to dull pains in my neck and shoulder muscles. Within days the pain spread down into my forearms and hands. My doctor sent me to physical therapy because I do have a history of cervical neck strains, and I believed this would do the trick. However, since then the muscle pains have since spread into my lower legs and feet. The affected muscles are very fatigued. I especially notice when trying to write or play guitar. All of the pains are dull and throbbing and are usually triggered by their use or by putting pressure on them. I also have upper and lower back pain, but they've always been there so I almost don't want to consider it connected. The pains all go away when resting except for the neck and back pain, however strangely the neck pain can entirely subside for a week or so at a time.
It should be noted that these issues arose during a brief period when I was not exercising frequently. I am now back exercising regularly, and it is difficult at first, but after a few minutes the muscles warm up and are okay.
I do have a history of anxiety-related issues (vertigo, heart palpitations), and my doctor believes that is what is causing this. I am open to that possibility, however I have never dealt with physical pain related to anxiety before. And of course my anxiety level is high as a RESULT of the pain. The physical therapist actually hit on something... she asked if I had any bowel or bladder problems, which could indicate a neck disc problem, and I in fact have had occasional unexplained excruciating bladder and bowel pain for a few years (it's been checked... nothing). However it was also her suggestion that I discontinue PT and seek my doctor's help again once the leg pains began. Any ideas? Arthritis? Fibromyalgia? Allergies? Bad mattress? Something else? Thanks.
I know it's uncommon for a male to have it, and I'm a very healthy 37 year old. But on 9/18/07 I woke to dull pains in my neck and shoulder muscles. Within days the pain spread down into my forearms and hands. My doctor sent me to physical therapy because I do have a history of cervical neck strains, and I believed this would do the trick. However, since then the muscle pains have since spread into my lower legs and feet. The affected muscles are very fatigued. I especially notice when trying to write or play guitar. All of the pains are dull and throbbing and are usually triggered by their use or by putting pressure on them. I also have upper and lower back pain, but they've always been there so I almost don't want to consider it connected. The pains all go away when resting except for the neck and back pain, however strangely the neck pain can entirely subside for a week or so at a time.
It should be noted that these issues arose during a brief period when I was not exercising frequently. I am now back exercising regularly, and it is difficult at first, but after a few minutes the muscles warm up and are okay.
I do have a history of anxiety-related issues (vertigo, heart palpitations), and my doctor believes that is what is causing this. I am open to that possibility, however I have never dealt with physical pain related to anxiety before. And of course my anxiety level is high as a RESULT of the pain. The physical therapist actually hit on something... she asked if I had any bowel or bladder problems, which could indicate a neck disc problem, and I in fact have had occasional unexplained excruciating bladder and bowel pain for a few years (it's been checked... nothing). However it was also her suggestion that I discontinue PT and seek my doctor's help again once the leg pains began. Any ideas? Arthritis? Fibromyalgia? Allergies? Bad mattress? Something else? Thanks.
Wow, thanks. Interesting. I just looked into TMS syndrome. I don't think what I have is stress-related, but I am open to all possibilities.
I will just add a couple of comments to what has already been written.
first, urinary and bowel problems are rarely caused by disc problems. And these would be related to the lumbar/sacral nerves , not cervical discs.
You first noted anxiety related and stress related issues.
You might what to investigate the possibility that you are experiencing TMS syndrome and its related symptoms.
Good Luck
first, urinary and bowel problems are rarely caused by disc problems. And these would be related to the lumbar/sacral nerves , not cervical discs.
You first noted anxiety related and stress related issues.
You might what to investigate the possibility that you are experiencing TMS syndrome and its related symptoms.
Good Luck
I probably should also that over the last few days I have been getting a rash on my entire arms when I exercise. It's not uncomfortable or anything. It also happens when I shower. It goes away within an hour or so. No idea what that is.
I totally hear you on not being able to open a jar but being able to shovel snow without a problem. That's exactly what I feel. It's hard to write or use a computer mouse or play guitar, but I can grab 80 lb dumbells and do shoulder shrugs and my fingers hold the weight just like normal. Weird. At least I'm glad I haven't lost any strength, or I'd probably be freaking out by now.
I totally hear you on not being able to open a jar but being able to shovel snow without a problem. That's exactly what I feel. It's hard to write or use a computer mouse or play guitar, but I can grab 80 lb dumbells and do shoulder shrugs and my fingers hold the weight just like normal. Weird. At least I'm glad I haven't lost any strength, or I'd probably be freaking out by now.
Wow. Well, I came here looking for help, so you don't have to feel bad for rambling. This has been extremely helpful and I will look into a lot of what you mentioned. Thanks so much.
There's also a condition causing build up of excess iron in the body that's another easy blood test. I dont' remember the symtpoms, but you're doctor will know it. Muscle pain may be the main one - I just don't remember.
That fatigued muscles without actual weakness is CFS/FM. I felt muscle fatigue from lifting a jar. But I could do heavy duty shoving something successfully, I'd just be in intense pain and muscle fatigue afterward and for several days. Being able to work out is unusual, but for FM it's possible. Not being fatigtued is unusual to but it's very possible for FM and it's not required in the British definition of their CFS equivalent. Also men often feel less of the fatigue in CFS although it's not usually absent. That going numb thing can happen with CFS/FM too. It feels like the blood supply is cut off but it's a nerve thing. Do you have congnitive problems even subtly or dizziness such as when getting up quickly? For the anxiety did you check into POTS yet to see if it might be that instead of straight anxiety? There's usually a laundry list of symptoms with these two illnesses. Any sensitivities to meds or foods or or chemicals or environmental stimuli like noise and light?
It's not sounding that close to FM as you've described it so far. However, people here have been through a lot, a lot of testing and may still be able to help. It may also be onsetting and not showing a full blown set of symptoms yet. Also, I didn't word it well, but that's why I was asking how your list of symptoms compares to those for CFS and FM when you read through them. Not so much whether it's one or the other, but whether there are other CFS and FM symptoms you experience in addition to those you've described. (I enclosed the references because I never remember all the things you can experience until someone mentions one.)
I was going to add that POTS is low probablity without somemore symptoms, but the opposite is true. POTS with CFS/FM looked complicated with tons of reactiveness. However, you can have a dsyautonomia such as POTS without the CFS/FM. You don't find many direct references to just that version. It could include a symtpom like muscle problems and axiety without the rest of the list. It's worth a check, although I still think low probability to have bad muscle problems from it without much else.
MS has a specific protocol of testing your doctor put you through if there''s reason to suspect that. There's also celicac disease (wheat sensitivity) that causes nutrition malasorption and is tested with simple blood test. If you are malasorbing something could be the first thing missing and showing up this way, with not much else wrong yet. (Looking back, my uncle had it for year and was a truck driver but had a noticable problem first in his 80's.) Syphillis can mimic many things (and they also tested me inspite of no behavior reason pointing to do so.)
Specialists that might have ideas include infectious diseases and rheumotogists and of course neurologists. Also a geneticists can pinpoint unusual combinations and it's not always obvious that you have something inherited since you may have the only combination of circumstances to trigger it.
More than anything while waiting to get diagnosed I'd start playing with vitamins and minerals and essential amino acids. Take a high dose of one of them for 3-4 days looking for any changes. Also try cutting out one for 4-5 days and see if you have too much of something in your system. (For instance calcim and magnesium are opposites so one too high can stop the other's effectivness.) Medicine isn't that helpful with this stuff although there are some alternatie testing, but sometimes you'll just hit on it...and then can back track to why it would be missing or building up.
Also, if you read up on nighshade foods, it's possible you've developed a sudden sensitivity to the ingredient in them, which for a small number of people causes system-wide pain although usually including joints. Food eliminations in general help with a lot of these off the mainstream illnesses, but you aren't sounding like you are there yet.
I don't know yet, but the more you know about you experience, the easier it will be for you and the doctor to communicate and figure it out. I've rambled a bit, but thought I'd see if free-basing would give some ideas... Have I overwhelmed you yet?? Sorry to keep going on. (A quick search on each thing should tell you if it has any relevance to you at all, no more than that needed.)
It's not sounding that close to FM as you've described it so far. However, people here have been through a lot, a lot of testing and may still be able to help. It may also be onsetting and not showing a full blown set of symptoms yet. Also, I didn't word it well, but that's why I was asking how your list of symptoms compares to those for CFS and FM when you read through them. Not so much whether it's one or the other, but whether there are other CFS and FM symptoms you experience in addition to those you've described. (I enclosed the references because I never remember all the things you can experience until someone mentions one.)
I was going to add that POTS is low probablity without somemore symptoms, but the opposite is true. POTS with CFS/FM looked complicated with tons of reactiveness. However, you can have a dsyautonomia such as POTS without the CFS/FM. You don't find many direct references to just that version. It could include a symtpom like muscle problems and axiety without the rest of the list. It's worth a check, although I still think low probability to have bad muscle problems from it without much else.
MS has a specific protocol of testing your doctor put you through if there''s reason to suspect that. There's also celicac disease (wheat sensitivity) that causes nutrition malasorption and is tested with simple blood test. If you are malasorbing something could be the first thing missing and showing up this way, with not much else wrong yet. (Looking back, my uncle had it for year and was a truck driver but had a noticable problem first in his 80's.) Syphillis can mimic many things (and they also tested me inspite of no behavior reason pointing to do so.)
Specialists that might have ideas include infectious diseases and rheumotogists and of course neurologists. Also a geneticists can pinpoint unusual combinations and it's not always obvious that you have something inherited since you may have the only combination of circumstances to trigger it.
More than anything while waiting to get diagnosed I'd start playing with vitamins and minerals and essential amino acids. Take a high dose of one of them for 3-4 days looking for any changes. Also try cutting out one for 4-5 days and see if you have too much of something in your system. (For instance calcim and magnesium are opposites so one too high can stop the other's effectivness.) Medicine isn't that helpful with this stuff although there are some alternatie testing, but sometimes you'll just hit on it...and then can back track to why it would be missing or building up.
Also, if you read up on nighshade foods, it's possible you've developed a sudden sensitivity to the ingredient in them, which for a small number of people causes system-wide pain although usually including joints. Food eliminations in general help with a lot of these off the mainstream illnesses, but you aren't sounding like you are there yet.
I don't know yet, but the more you know about you experience, the easier it will be for you and the doctor to communicate and figure it out. I've rambled a bit, but thought I'd see if free-basing would give some ideas... Have I overwhelmed you yet?? Sorry to keep going on. (A quick search on each thing should tell you if it has any relevance to you at all, no more than that needed.)
I'll definitely keep you updated, thanks for the suggestions. I think my symptoms mimic FM more than CFS. The thing is, I'm not fatigued at all. My muscles do feel fatigued, but as far as feeling tired or exhausted or sick, I'm none of those. I'm still working out at the gym and for the most part I haven't lost any muscle strength at all. The muscles just hurt and FEEL weak when they are not. Of course my anxiety symptoms are all here too because I've been worried about all the pain lately.
I should mention that for several years the pinky and outside of my hands have been going numb when my elbow is bent for long periods, like when talking on the phone, which would indicate an ulnar nerve issue. It also frequently happens when I'm asleep. I'm starting to notice that my current hand fatigue is more in my pinky. I guess there's always a possibility of MS too.
Hmmm. I just dunno.
I should mention that for several years the pinky and outside of my hands have been going numb when my elbow is bent for long periods, like when talking on the phone, which would indicate an ulnar nerve issue. It also frequently happens when I'm asleep. I'm starting to notice that my current hand fatigue is more in my pinky. I guess there's always a possibility of MS too.
Hmmm. I just dunno.
Often instinct is right and you may not have Lyme. It such an easy test - and waiting makes it work less, and we both went there - so IMHO what the h-ck? (My sister had untreated lyme and her husband and kid and dog had classic onset quickly treated. Boy were they different. Can you say large green backyard?) How do FM and CFS symptoms compare when you look at descriptions of them? That might give us more to go on for ideas for you (www.cfids.org and national fm association). Let us know how it goes at the doctor's. :-).
No, I haven't had an MRI yet, but I'll be sure to demand one when I get back in next week. I dunno... I just don't feel very 'lymish'. I feel totally fine other than the pain. Though the pain in my legs has gotten sharper over the last 2 days. The pains are right above my ankles and wrap all the way around. I noticed that all of my pains go away after a few minutes of exercise.
I hope I don't sound too stubborn, I really do appreciate all the help. You both have me thinking I just could have Lyme.
I hope I don't sound too stubborn, I really do appreciate all the help. You both have me thinking I just could have Lyme.
Problems in the spine can cause bowel or bladder problems. So can lyme. Have you had an MRI of brain and C-spine.
Thanks for the info. I still don't know if the bladder / bowel thing is related. Could be. I've had it scoped and everything appears fine. From what I've researched, a problem with any part of the spine can cause bladder and bowel issues. I'm getting back to see the doctor next week and I hope to figure things out, as long as she believes me and doesn't think it's all in my head.
It doesn't sound like classic onset of FM, and lyme was what came to my mind first, but FM can hit in a wide variety of ways. It can "spread" for another pain cause like the neck stuff. Is the bladder interstycial cystitus (spelling??) like? While these are more prevalent in women by about 60%, that leaves 30% as men. If the anxiety stuff is related then I'd say it's through a dyautonomia like POTS or NMH. (I've posted about them before.) Pots in particular can cause what looks like anxiety attacks with heart palpitations and of course vertigo. It common in FM and CFS and in testing that triggers it people often report increases of their pain and other symptoms, so it's very related.
Lyme can look a lot like FM and CFS, but a little odder (less consistent to what they typically look like). You can get it with no tickbite and NO symptoms. You could have thought you had a slight stomach bug for a night. Tests get less effective over time, so it's best to find a specialist in it and get tested sooner. Just because you're brothers onsets were more obvious, doesn't mean yours would be. It's more like 70% never find a tick bite nor the rash. Also the treatment is less easy pr effective over time. It's a rule-out condition for CFS/FM, so you'll need to be tested for it anyway. Make sure it's the western blot and by someone very familar with it.
If the bladder trouble indicates a neck injury, then I don't know what that means to the picture.
Lyme can look a lot like FM and CFS, but a little odder (less consistent to what they typically look like). You can get it with no tickbite and NO symptoms. You could have thought you had a slight stomach bug for a night. Tests get less effective over time, so it's best to find a specialist in it and get tested sooner. Just because you're brothers onsets were more obvious, doesn't mean yours would be. It's more like 70% never find a tick bite nor the rash. Also the treatment is less easy pr effective over time. It's a rule-out condition for CFS/FM, so you'll need to be tested for it anyway. Make sure it's the western blot and by someone very familar with it.
If the bladder trouble indicates a neck injury, then I don't know what that means to the picture.
Yeah, that's why I initially suspected Lyme, but my brothers also had fevers, rashes, headaches, and an obvious tick bite area. I haven't had any of those. I'm sure it's still a possibility, but I'd say it's doubtful.
If your brothers had lyme then you are even more likely to have it as it is present in the area where you live.
Thanks for the info. I have thought about Lyme Disease, although my brothers have both had it and there were differences. My blood work has come back normal but I'm not sure it included a Lyme test, and I really don't think I ever got bit by a tick. I seem more concerned than my doctor does at this point.
? lyme. It does sound a bit like fibro but remember...fibro is a sydrome or group of symptoms. It is not a disease. Something is causing it. I do not think it is anxiety. Doctors blame anxiety for anything they don't have an answer for. A doctor who truly knows fibro could test you for the tender points. You must have 11 out of 18 to meet fibro criteria. If doctors don't check the tender points or don't know the right places then they don't know fibro.
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