is cfs and fibromyalgia one and the same?

[uk2]

I have heard some research say cfs and fibro are the same syndrome but manifest in different ways in people some people manifest pain others fatiuge.

it is known that cfs is a neurological disorder and is listed as this, also my dr proff davies says that fibro is a disorder of the CNS so why is it not listed along side cfs or is it and i've not seen it? it seems still rheumy treat the illness why when its clearly a neuro problem, any ideas?

[uk2]

hi,

wow thats some history hun, and the emotional as well as the physical must of taken a toll. I had my first traumar when i was 13 fell off my horse injuryed my shoulder left and since then still at 34 suffer from it but its not bone damage its soft tissue damage and exercise massage and traction help keep that under control. I have had alot of emotional stress was in a abusive relationship in my twenties was rapped beaten nt nice for 3 yrs and i think that effects your emotional and physical body. I had 3 car accidents the last causing whiplash and have degenitive disk disease in L4/5 and C2 and S1 with a narrowing but not enough to warrent surgery not that i would want to and i cant imagine what you have been through with all your surgeries. I can understand how the the fibro stops you recovering from the surgies as any small change effects it i had bad cells removed from my cervix by laser and that took it out of me never mind majour surgry like you.

i cant understand why my fibro is so bad and keeps me disabled but i am not the only one there are many like me sometimes i feel this si more the fibro but i dont wont to be tested for anything else, the pain i feel in my legs feels like nerve pain shooting stabbing unrelenting pain the skin gets so sensitive clothes hurt it i rock myself asleep crying the other pains are like in the bone and it also effects my cognetive abiltys as you can tell from my spelling lol i was sure it was MS as the way it started but then it got so bad it could not be MS without any lesion found and although they never used contrast or a strong telssa MRI i think it is not MS but i am certain and my dr agrees it is of the cns as it is identical to MS but more pain. the morphine patches help. sam

[concerned621]

Hi again, I just left you a message in another chat.  I had ruptured 2 discs in 1988 on a Nordic Trac exercise machine. Had surgery to repair it. Everything seemed fine. I resumed my normal routines.  Then in 1989 I was car jacked. I got away but in trying to get away, my attacker jumped in the car beside me in the drivers seat so I kicked the door continuously. It was in my husbands porsche so the door was very heavy.  The attacker finally got nervous,  the car was parked at Safeway grocery store directly under a light, a couple watched the attack, they said later they thought I as fighting with my husband. So the attacker finally threw me out of the car and took off with the car. When they found the car 2 weeks later the door fell off the hinges.  So I must have kicked it pretty hard. I ended up with 3 more ruptured discs and years of emotional pain and PTSD that I still deal with.  
  
So to answer you I was diagnosed with fibro first in 1992.  I had this over all ache that over took my body, my mind and made my personality change. I was working full-time at the start of my career had my 2 kids, 8, 3.  I thought I was dying.  My doc sent me to a rheumatologist and he ruled out Lupus, MS and Arthritis and told me I had fibromyalgia. I was put on Mirapex and didn't do well on that at all. That's one of those dopamine drugs.  I don't do well on those either.  So fibromyalgia came after lumbar surgery that went well.  
I had suffered with FM for many years then:

Between 2003 and 2006 as a result of 2 car accidents I had 5 surgeries on my spine, 2 of which were fusions.  I had never experienced such horrible "nerve" pain in my life.  That is where I differentiate  between my fibro pain and my nerve pain.  And when I'd get an MRI or CT scan it would be confirmed it was a disc pressing on a nerve.  The doctors would say well with your fibro we don't know if it's fibro pain or a ruptured disc. I'd explain that I knew the difference between my fibro pain and nerve pain.  And each time it would be confirmed through an MRI or CT scan.  Right now I'm having a bad neck and shoulder issue. I am 90% sure it's a disc because the pain is nerve pain.  

I would have to agree with you my nervous system has been so compromised that the signals are so haywire but I've learned after so many years of this to tell which pain is which.  As crazy as it sounds I am relieved if I am not feeling nerve pain, because with me that means surgery.  My doctors and attorneys after my 2 accident refer to me as an "eggshell" patient.  Meaning even a minor accident could cause me to rupture a disc. It's a very nice thing for an attorney but a horrible thing for me.  I can't go through another surgery.  I didn't believe I would survive after the 4th one. I was so ill, pancreatitis, weight loss, vomitting for 6 weeks.  My body just couldn't get back on track.  It took me over a year. I attribute this to the fibro.  So when I feel nerve pain I really get worried.  Take care uk2!

[uk2]

con

i can see why you do that and pain from spinal problems of nerve entrapment is different the the fibro.

can i ask did you have the spinal problems first? then the fibro i wonder if the signals from the brain to spine or spine to brain got waylayed as all signals travel this way then maybe they went haywire and sent signals all over the place just a thought!

i have been tried on the dopamine agonist but i reacted badly to both that they tried me on which is a shame as i've heard it has really helped some. good to chat things over with you. take care

[concerned621]

Good points! It definitely affects mood, I didn't mean to say otherwise. I think pain in and of itself makes us feel depressed.  There are studies on dopamine and a drug called mirapex by Dr. Wood in the Seattle area. I think it is in line with the point you are making.  
There is so much conflicting research and my point would be we as FM patients are all different from one another. So one research theory might be directed towards my specific issues, and another towards you.
I have had 7 surgeries on my spine so in addition to the FM i have a lot of neurological issues.  So that is why I define FM and neurological pain differently. I might be completely wrong but for me it's how I define it and it helps me address each issue with medication, because one pain medication for FM does not address my nerve pain.  So I really do see the two very differently.  

[patsy10]

I agree.

[uk2]

thanks con,

i think researching is good on are illness but there is so much research out there that confliks one another, i get alot of neurological pains and then i get other pains too fm does not just effect your body it effects your moods your brain processing system so surely it is more then a connective tissuse disorder as i feel it stems from small changes in the brain which are to be yet seen surely this indicates a neurological disorder and they say cfs is a neuro condition then i feel fibro is too.

[concerned621]

In my opinion and I have FM and have had it since 1992 FM is a connective tissue disorder and I believe based on research I've read that it's tied to immunity issues within the body. It's also very much to do with the sympathetic nervous system.  I don't think there are two FM patients who are the same in symptoms or manifestations.   There has to be some commonalities I realize,  but it seems to vary widely among FM people.  I have neurological problems as well and there is a distinction between them and FM.  I do believe FM cause CFS.   I don't believe FM and CFS are one and the same though. I have met people CFS and they differ a lot from what I go through with FM. I hope this makes sense.

[uk2]

thanks guys for response and the links, interesting reading.

[lvfrogs]

Thank you for the links to the websites. I have a hard time finding any good info on CFS.

[patsy10]

I think they are different  manifestations of the same illness.  I think it depends on each individual's body response.  Some have CFS symptoms, some have FMS symptoms and other like me have a combination of both.

[karajo]

Check out this web site about CFS and MS.  This article really surprised me on how involved CFS is.

http://www.ahummingbirdsguide.com/mevsms.htm

[dustybrown]

I think kitonthemoon is right. It seems we are waiting to find out if there are differences. Especially since the breaking news of the new neuroimmune virus last month- XMRV. I think we are going to find out that FMS and ME/CFS they are similar, but different. Perhaps offshoot viruses or mutations of some sort that attack different parts of the brain??? I don't know. I am just speculating.

My doctor thinks that they are the same illness, or at least she used to. I wonder what her thoughts are now with this new research? I do agree that these illnesses are somehow a disorder of the CNS. I hope we get to learn why soon.

Below is a website I like to follow about FMS and ME/CFS. Take a look at it if you have time.

http://chronicfatigue.about.com

[kitonthemoon]

I think the final verdict is yet to be seen whether these 2 are one of the same.

I've read report to prove that ME/CFS andMS are definately differnt from some MRI reults, I believe.  Also, from the latest WPI findings, only several of the FMS tested had XRMV...instead of 99% of ME/CFS.  So, who knows, huh?