Gallbladder - to remove or not to remove?

[Nelle2416]

I had an 'attack' one night almost 2 weeks ago where (3 hours after eating a bacon sandwich and a small piece of cheesecake) I had sudden pain across the middle of my back which quickly progressed across my front under my ribs. I thought I was just having a severe attack of indegestion which I get every few mths but this pain became excruciating and then I vomited. This relieved the pain momentarily but then it came back even worse. I knew I needed to go to the hospital but I don't have health insurance so it was a few hrs before I got to see a nurse. I was in so much pain that I was on the floor of the emergency waiting room writhing around. I was given 2 Nurofen which 20 minutes later I threw up. After vomiting the second time the pain subsided. When I was finally seen by a nurse she told me (without examination) that I had Gallbladder Reflux Gastritis and that I'd probably be fine now. The next afternoon I felt a little sore on my right side so went to my GP who suspected gallstones and sent me for an unltrasound. Gallstones were confirmed and I was referred to a surgeon. Since the incident I have avoided all fatty foods and am eating small meals every 3 hrs (I have always been a fairly healthy eater but recently dieted to lose 5kg - I am 58kg and aged 34, female). I have been booked in for surgery 4 wks from now but am wondering if gallbladder removal is the answer when I have had no pain really, just a bit of discomfort now and then, since the incident??? I have been hearing of side effects from surgery such as urgent bowel movements (the specialist told me this is a short term after effect but my friend is still having this 2 yrs after surgery) and increasing risks of certain cancers etc... My aunty has had gallstones for about 20 years with only a handful of attacks. The research I have done seems so conflicting, I'm so confused as to what is the right decision for me (my GP seems to think the surgery is no big deal). Is it likely to be life threatening if I don't have it removed?

[Bobbiedee]

Thanks for the quackwatch.com info.  I will check it out.  I didn't know you were in Australia.  However, it will be interesting to see what your doctors has to say.  Nelel, do you have nausia at all?  Do you feel good when you are not having pain?  My tests all come back good, even my Gallbladder HIDA scan and ERCP.  However, my stomach is not good, and I feel bad all day long until about 5:00 to 5:30 in the evening, then I start to feel better.  I'm wonder now if I could have an autoimmune disorder.  That's about the only thing I haven't been tested for.  I don't know how many stones I have, but none are in any bile ducts.  At this time anyway.  The area on the right side under my ribs is slightly tender from time to time.  So.......who knows.  It's hard to find a doctor that once all the basic tests are done, will go deeper with you.  I have to be my own advocate and keep searching.  Living like this is awlful, quite frankly.  I hope you can figure out your issue too.  I'll pray for you too.  Again, thank you for responding. Keep me posted.  Take care.
Bobbiedee

[Nelle2416]

I did some more investigating on the flushes and found this, http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/flushes.html which made me think... there are some valid points such as how can anything we eat soften the stones when it never comes in contact with them? I have had a good look at my untrasound (neither the doctor nor the specialist bothered to go over it with me) and it seems I have 3 stones, 5.3mm, 6.9mm and 2.3mm the last of which is in my Common Biliary Duct. No inflammation of the gallbladder and kidneys etc all fine. I'm wondering if they can just do an Endoscopic Retrograde Cholangiopancreatography (ERCP) on me?.
ERCP is used to locate and remove stones in the bile ducts. After lightly sedating you, the doctor inserts an endoscope—a long, flexible, lighted tube with a camera—down the throat and through the stomach and into the small intestine. The endoscope is connected to a computer and video monitor. The doctor guides the endoscope and injects a special dye that helps the bile ducts appear better on the monitor. The endoscope helps the doctor locate the affected bile duct and the gallstone. The stone is captured in a tiny basket and removed with the endoscope. Do you know how many stones you have, what size etc..?
I think I will call and speak with the specialist about this as my surgery has been pushed back to Nov 15. My pain is mild but generally a bit worse at night, mainly a burning feeling to the shoulder blades, especially right side, bit of lower back pain right side. I will also discuss the flushes with him too. I'm in Australia so I can't ring your flush guy but thanks anyway :)

[Bobbiedee]

I am currently doing a gallbladder fllush, however this one takes 4 months.  I am doing this through Dr. Bob Marshal, phd in nutrition.  His telephone # is 800-370-3447.  He has a clinic in Texas and California and is on the radio everyday and on Saturday.  You can call on his live radio broadcast and speak with him or call the 800 # for more info.  His flush consists of taking gallbladder nutrients and doing a coffee emema twice per week.  There are other flushes out there that I looked at, but my concern was because they were shorter, they seemed to be more abrupt, which I felt could possibly cause a stone to get lodged.  The one I'm doing will help to soften the stones first and flush them out.  I will let you know at the end of the four months.  I am also not eating bad fats, dairy or sugar anything.  My diet consists of vegetables, good fats like avacados,fruit, carbs like yams,  
no dairy or refined sugars, and a small amount of protein from time to time.  I hope this will
work for me.  This flush also helps the liver as does eating healthier.  Prior to me getting
sick, I was a chocolate holic.  I've learned the hard way.  I will check out the flush your Aunti did.  Thank you for your info.  Nelle I did have another question, my GI doctor is going to have me do a CT scan of my abdomen as well.  I wanted an MRI, but he claims the CT scan shows more.  I always thought the MRI was more detailed.  Do you know the difference? Again thank you for your info.
Bobbiedee

[Nelle2416]

This is the flush I'm going to do (it's the same one my Aunty has done a few times, successfully) http://asktom-naturally.com/cleanse.html
I think I'm going to research the best way to soften the stones first though (I don't want any getting stuck on the way out!)

[Nelle2416]

Thanks for your comments. It's so hard because everyone's circumstances seem to be so different. The 'discomfort' in my side and back is not constant but does seem to be getting more frequent, ie: on and off throughout the day. I had a killer headache last night that may or may not have been associated? I also have the light/clay coloured stools.
- Dojoandky, did you have severe pain constantly/regularly before they removed your gallbladder? Was your gallbladder inflammed? Did you try gallbladder flushing first?
- Bobbiedee, have you tried the gallbladder flushing?... my Aunty (who's had gallstones for years with little trouble) has done the flushing a few times and said it worked everytime. But I guess it has to be done regularly. Not sure if that would solve our problems but wondering if it's worth a try? I'm just scared a stone might get stuck on the way out, lol.

[Bobbiedee]

by Bobbiedee - I read your posting regarding the experience with your gallbladder surgery.  That is why I am relectant to have mine out, especially when all the tests have come back normal. My doctor still recommends I have my gallbladder out, but I'm not convenienced to date.  Did you experience nausia and not feeling well between your gallbladder attacks?

Bobbiedee

[dojoandky]

Please don't be too hasty to get your gallbladder removed, especially since your Gastro docs can run tests (like an upper endoscopy or upper endoscopy with ultrasound) or blood tests BEFORE they remove your gallbladder.  What the medical community WON'T tell you is that 33% of the people who have their gallbladders removed have subseqent LIFE LONG issues with diarhhea (sometimes EXPLOSIVE and URGENT!!) or constipation, and possible surigally induced CELIAC Disease.  I know this only because I've suffered throgh this, and wouldn't want ANYONE to go through what I've gone through.  It was only through my own dedication to getting well, and EIGHT years of suffering that I fiannly found the answer on MY OWN.  I now had surgically induced Celiac Disease which causes the diarhhea.  This happens because the intestines are no longer able to process the proteins in grains and dairy, (the cillia in the intestines lie down on the walls of the intestine, not absorbing yur nutrients, and so they just "run through you".  It can even cause malnutrition.)  And because you no longer have your gallbladder to provide the gentle "squirting action" of bile which helps digest the food you eat, the liver takes over this function, but can only do so in a DUMPING action, which causes too much bile at times, and goes right through you.  SO PLEASE be hesitant to remove your gallbladder and DON'T let the doctors or anyone else tell you it's no big deal.  It is.  We need our gallbladders,  and they are not irreplaceable.   YOU are your only and only advocate, so take care of yourself.  Good luck.  (I'm 16 years post gallbladder removal-the first eight were hell, the last 7.5 were ok once I found I could control the Celiac Disease through my diet, but for the last 3 months now, I have some new pains and problems I'm trying to find out about why I'm having them.  I've been through so many tests-Endoscopy, Endoscopy with Ultrasound, CT scan, blood tests, and this week I'm having MRIs done of my abdomen and pelvis.  So, you can see that removal of the gallbladder DOES NOT NECESSARILY SOLVE THE PROBLEMS, AND CAN LEAD TO MORE TROUBLE!!!!)  Just be careful.

[lucinda1675]

remove i had them for 5 years and was miserable it just gets worse