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Is medication a lifelong affair after bypass surgery.?
I think medication becomes less and less gradually in case of persons improving steadily after bypass surgery. Ultimately no medication may be necessary after a particular point of time. Am I right?
I sure hope so! Prier to this I took maybe one aspirin a year, then suddenly I had to number each pill bottle (15 in all) and constantly check to see how many of each I needed to take and how often. Not too long ago I got rid of most (mostly pain killers I never needed in the first place) and ended up with...
Coreg x2/day
Lisinopril x1/day
Simvastatin x1/day
Now I'm back up a few for related problems, they wont be around all the time but the three listed I'm told will be.
Coreg x2/day
Lisinopril x1/day
Simvastatin x1/day
Now I'm back up a few for related problems, they wont be around all the time but the three listed I'm told will be.
Thanks dear. I am running 5th week after bypass surgery. I am taking the prescribed medicines.I have no other problem whatsoever.So I was thinking if a day will come when no medication will be needed. The surgery in fact has pepped up my urge to keep every subsystem of the body well regulated.Thanks dear.
No, it's not an irrelevant question! In fact it can become very informative. If you're asking for other opinions, just wait a while and others will jump in with their information.
Jogeshwar, where does this "dear" come from? Where I come from Men don't call each other "dear".
No, a bypass operation certainly does not remove the requirement for medication. A bypass is exactly what it says, it bypasses a blockage and does not remove it. This means there is plaque/fats in the Coronary arteries still posing a risk of rupture or fracture. The risk of stroke or heart attack is still there, the same as it was before the surgery. The only difference is that a better blood flow has been supplied to the deficit area. Aspirin will be required for life to lower the risk of clotting. If your blood pressure has not improved post cabg, then this medication will also continue. A bypass operation will not lower cholesterol, so if your cholesterol is high, statins will always be a requirement. Beta blockers will also be required for a while until the heart has fully recovered from the trauma of surgery. This time limit seems to differ with different cardiologists. Some never seem to like you kicking the drugs, while others can't wait to get you off it. Some people still feel some angina when they kick beta blockers and decide they feel better if they carry on taking it. So, I'm afraid a bypass operation is not the status quo with regards to medication.
Dear RadioAstronomyObserver,
I am an Indian. Indians are fond of further sweetening the already sweet ingredients.
Have you heard about a liquid preparation called "panchamrita"?This is a mixture of 5 sweet ingredients and offered to gods and then enjoy the 'prasad"/residual.
Well, if cross cultural.divergence still irks you then I withdraw the word 'dear'.
Well again British political imperialism ended in India in 1947 but imperialism of English language is growing very fast in India.It appears that it is a matter of time that all Indian languages will extinguish but then the English in India will not be the same as the English in Britain or America today.Language is dynamic and not static
I am an Indian. Indians are fond of further sweetening the already sweet ingredients.
Have you heard about a liquid preparation called "panchamrita"?This is a mixture of 5 sweet ingredients and offered to gods and then enjoy the 'prasad"/residual.
Well, if cross cultural.divergence still irks you then I withdraw the word 'dear'.
Well again British political imperialism ended in India in 1947 but imperialism of English language is growing very fast in India.It appears that it is a matter of time that all Indian languages will extinguish but then the English in India will not be the same as the English in Britain or America today.Language is dynamic and not static
"This means there is plaque/fats in the Coronary arteries still posing a risk of rupture or fracture. The risk of stroke or heart attack is still there, the same as it was before the surgery."
thanks.Very very vivid description of the process and more particularly the above portion.The above quote makes me rather euphoric and I feel there is cogent reason for my euphoria.Thanks again.
thanks.Very very vivid description of the process and more particularly the above portion.The above quote makes me rather euphoric and I feel there is cogent reason for my euphoria.Thanks again.
i agree with cath911 i didnt have bypass but had multiple stents and have to be on my meds for life but that depends on your body and your cardioligst good luck and take care
"but that depends on your body and your cardioligst good luck and take care "
Thanks.This knowledge I was looking for. Our bodies are predisposed to eject out or repair the anomalies. In a point of time the body was incapable of repairing/ejecting out the anomalies resulting in CAD and consequently bypass surgery. It may not mean that the body will remain incapable in repairing/ejecting out the anomalies through out life. Can this capability of the body of repairing/ejecting out the anomalies be pepped up?
Thanks.This knowledge I was looking for. Our bodies are predisposed to eject out or repair the anomalies. In a point of time the body was incapable of repairing/ejecting out the anomalies resulting in CAD and consequently bypass surgery. It may not mean that the body will remain incapable in repairing/ejecting out the anomalies through out life. Can this capability of the body of repairing/ejecting out the anomalies be pepped up?
im not a dr but from what i have read you can help out yourself alot with proper diet and excercise
The problem is, there is nothing to remove the fats stuck against the artery lining. We all know that fat will not dissolve in water, so that fat cannot return to the blood for removal. It can be forced along arteries as a Lump, causing a clot, but will never dissolve. Blood is mostly made up from water and so this is the big problem.
The Liver makes tiny submarines called Lipids and these are packed with fat and sent out into the blood. There are many types of submarines, but we are told that the LDL submarines are the bad guys. HDL are called the good submarines. LDL subs travel around the blood stream and are grabbed by cells which are damaged or multiplying because extra fat is required, as a building material. The excess fats from cells are put into the empty HDL subs and returned to the Liver.
Now the crunch. A damaged artery lining will cause the submarines to become trapped. This is because they are very small. Along comes the immune system and this attempts to remove the subs, so the artery can get on with repairing itself. However, the Macrophages (immune system large cells) demolish the subs but cannot do anything with the fat. The Macrophages die and turn into foam cells which are squashed along the artery lining by the bloods pressure. Streaks of sticky fats now line the artery. The subs that were trapped would have been a mixture of LDL and HDL (with fat on way back to liver). Other cells now get stuck to the sticky fats. This will continue to happen until a coating is formed over the fat to try and hold it away from the blood. This is plaque and is mainly calcium based. Now, if the body removes the plaque (which it wont because there's no process for that), then this would release the dangerous fat clumps which can cause strokes etc. So Plaque is basically there for good.
I have read some articles 'claiming' that plaque is removed in some people by Statins, but there is no explanation as to how this happens, chemically. Without scientific understanding I am unable to simply accept the words "statins have been shown to lessen plaque". No matter how much I put pen to paper and look at the chemistry at molecular level, I cannot see how a statin drug can reduce existing plaque. All it does is tell the Liver not to make so many submarines.
In reality the only way to clean coronary arteries is to fill them with descaler, then detergent to break down the fats. Then scrub them clean and refill them with blood.
Now there's a good project for someone.
So, as you stated, the body does have many built in mechanisms to make repairs, but it has already attempted this with coronary artery disease but made a bigger problem. If the immune system left the lipids alone and new artery tissue grew over these quickly, then we wouldn't have such a problem.
It's the same with many lung infections. It isn't the virus which kills people by attacking the lungs, it's the lungs being virtually covered inside with our own white cells, trying to remove the viruses. A virus doesn't want to kill anything alive, it needs cells to multiply and then to leave and find a new host. A virus is unable to reproduce without the use of other living cells.
The Liver makes tiny submarines called Lipids and these are packed with fat and sent out into the blood. There are many types of submarines, but we are told that the LDL submarines are the bad guys. HDL are called the good submarines. LDL subs travel around the blood stream and are grabbed by cells which are damaged or multiplying because extra fat is required, as a building material. The excess fats from cells are put into the empty HDL subs and returned to the Liver.
Now the crunch. A damaged artery lining will cause the submarines to become trapped. This is because they are very small. Along comes the immune system and this attempts to remove the subs, so the artery can get on with repairing itself. However, the Macrophages (immune system large cells) demolish the subs but cannot do anything with the fat. The Macrophages die and turn into foam cells which are squashed along the artery lining by the bloods pressure. Streaks of sticky fats now line the artery. The subs that were trapped would have been a mixture of LDL and HDL (with fat on way back to liver). Other cells now get stuck to the sticky fats. This will continue to happen until a coating is formed over the fat to try and hold it away from the blood. This is plaque and is mainly calcium based. Now, if the body removes the plaque (which it wont because there's no process for that), then this would release the dangerous fat clumps which can cause strokes etc. So Plaque is basically there for good.
I have read some articles 'claiming' that plaque is removed in some people by Statins, but there is no explanation as to how this happens, chemically. Without scientific understanding I am unable to simply accept the words "statins have been shown to lessen plaque". No matter how much I put pen to paper and look at the chemistry at molecular level, I cannot see how a statin drug can reduce existing plaque. All it does is tell the Liver not to make so many submarines.
In reality the only way to clean coronary arteries is to fill them with descaler, then detergent to break down the fats. Then scrub them clean and refill them with blood.
Now there's a good project for someone.
So, as you stated, the body does have many built in mechanisms to make repairs, but it has already attempted this with coronary artery disease but made a bigger problem. If the immune system left the lipids alone and new artery tissue grew over these quickly, then we wouldn't have such a problem.
It's the same with many lung infections. It isn't the virus which kills people by attacking the lungs, it's the lungs being virtually covered inside with our own white cells, trying to remove the viruses. A virus doesn't want to kill anything alive, it needs cells to multiply and then to leave and find a new host. A virus is unable to reproduce without the use of other living cells.
The available therapy for coronary vessel disease treats the symptoms and is not a cure. The only medication that may discontinued is medication for chest pains, etc.
Thanks for taking care.
"I have read some articles 'claiming' that plaque is removed in some people by Statins, but there is no explanation as to how this happens, chemically. Without scientific understanding I am unable to simply accept the words "statins have been shown to lessen plaque". No matter how much I put pen to paper and look at the chemistry at molecular level, I cannot see how a statin drug can reduce existing plaque. All it does is tell the Liver not to make so many submarines."
Science has explained just a few microphenomenon of which many are subject to revision. There is no verdict in science.Macrophenomen like eros/life instinct or Thanatos/death instinct are far above any scientific explanation. No science can explain how a tassar larva makes a cocoon exactly of the same type as its parents or members of species do without even having an opportunity to meet any member its species till then.Life is larger than science and so intuition may be larger than scientific explanation.
"In reality the only way to clean coronary arteries is to fill them with descaler, then detergent to break down the fats. Then scrub them clean and refill them with blood.
Now there's a good project for someone. "
Yes. breaking and not dissolving. In nature nothing seems to be permanent.So fat too may not be permanent. Please inform if you find any information about he breakability of arterial fat.Thanks.
"I have read some articles 'claiming' that plaque is removed in some people by Statins, but there is no explanation as to how this happens, chemically. Without scientific understanding I am unable to simply accept the words "statins have been shown to lessen plaque". No matter how much I put pen to paper and look at the chemistry at molecular level, I cannot see how a statin drug can reduce existing plaque. All it does is tell the Liver not to make so many submarines."
Science has explained just a few microphenomenon of which many are subject to revision. There is no verdict in science.Macrophenomen like eros/life instinct or Thanatos/death instinct are far above any scientific explanation. No science can explain how a tassar larva makes a cocoon exactly of the same type as its parents or members of species do without even having an opportunity to meet any member its species till then.Life is larger than science and so intuition may be larger than scientific explanation.
"In reality the only way to clean coronary arteries is to fill them with descaler, then detergent to break down the fats. Then scrub them clean and refill them with blood.
Now there's a good project for someone. "
Yes. breaking and not dissolving. In nature nothing seems to be permanent.So fat too may not be permanent. Please inform if you find any information about he breakability of arterial fat.Thanks.
There is a retired person who had undergone bypass surgery when he was 80.Now he is 85.He said that he had taken medicine only for about 3 months after surgery. He is fit even at 85. Can it be explained?
You are asking me a question like "without looking at my car, why did it break down". To have any clue whatsoever we would need to see details of his condition before the procedure, what vessels were bypassed and his vital signs after surgery.
I would be very surprised if a cardiologist doesn't at least have him on aspirin. Maybe the patient decided he wanted to go against medical advice and chose not to take any medication.
I would be very surprised if a cardiologist doesn't at least have him on aspirin. Maybe the patient decided he wanted to go against medical advice and chose not to take any medication.
What a wonderful way you demystified the plaque forming process. Absolutely loved it.
Dear Mr. Jogeshwar,
As others have stated, your requirement for medications will go down as time passes after your bypass procedure. However your doctor will keep you on a few medications to keep your heart disease in check.These in my opinion will be:
1. Aspirin to reduce chances of clot formation
2. Beta-blocker or related drugs to regulate blood pressure and
3. Statin or other cholesterol reducing medication.
In my experience, Indians are reluctant either to start taking a medicine or continue taking it. In addition to taking medicines for my heart condition, I also take insulin for diabetes. I have lost count of the number of times I have been advised to come off insulin because it is "addictive" or use ayurvedic (Indian traditional) medicine to treat the condition. Some of these "advisers" were diabetic patients themselves who must have listened to their own advice because they are either no more or suffering terrible complications of diabetes.
I wish you all the best.
As others have stated, your requirement for medications will go down as time passes after your bypass procedure. However your doctor will keep you on a few medications to keep your heart disease in check.These in my opinion will be:
1. Aspirin to reduce chances of clot formation
2. Beta-blocker or related drugs to regulate blood pressure and
3. Statin or other cholesterol reducing medication.
In my experience, Indians are reluctant either to start taking a medicine or continue taking it. In addition to taking medicines for my heart condition, I also take insulin for diabetes. I have lost count of the number of times I have been advised to come off insulin because it is "addictive" or use ayurvedic (Indian traditional) medicine to treat the condition. Some of these "advisers" were diabetic patients themselves who must have listened to their own advice because they are either no more or suffering terrible complications of diabetes.
I wish you all the best.
Th
Here is an opinion on the medicines for me.Do you confirm?
"1.Pantocid/pantoprazole : This is a proton pump inhibitor. It destroy the ability of the G-cells in the stomach to produce HCl (Hydrochloric acid), so that the stomach content is less acid. One important side effect is that your own enzymes (in particular pepsin and proteases) no lunger function well, and food may remain undigested.
But at the same time it has an effect similar to a meal, which would serve to neutralize some of the HCl during the digestive process. Continuing this drug during a fast will "protect" your stomach to the possible side effects of the others, making it in general terms safe to take them all during a fast.
2.Amifru-s/Fusemide IP +spironolactone IP
Both frusemide (Furosemide) and spironolactone are diuretics. They destroy the ability of the tubular cells in the kidney, to re-absorb water from the "primary filtrate". Thus you lose water that the body would normally have re-absorbed. Personally I find it rather difficult to appreciate the rationale of this class of drug as its entire effect is negated simply by drinking another glass or 2 of water. BUT they have been found quite effective in improving the signs and symptoms of heart failure and are totally safe to use during a fast. Frusemide cause loss of potassium but spironolactone (a steroid) cause potassium retention so theoretically their side effects balance out.
3.Deplatt A 75/clopidogrel+asprin
Both Clopidrogel and Aspirin reduce the "stickiness" of blood platelets, so you are considerably less prone to form blood clots. You are then of course also more prone to bleed. Theoretically large doses of Aspirin can contribute to stomach ulcers, but not
- for a short period of fasting (less than say 2 weeks)
- in the low dosages used here (75 milligrams- see my previous entry) and
- In the presence of Pantoprazole.
4.B complex forte +Vitamin C
I am on record as almost blankly opposing the idea of "supplements". There are no scientifically verified data that they do anything more than swell the bank accounts of the "manufacturers". Vitamins, once removed from their natural "ambience" often do more harm than good. You should get them from your diet.
5.Cordarone/Amiodarone
Amiodarone (as mentioned before) is quite safe on an empty stomach, particularly under the circumstances mentioned under (3) above.
6-ATORLIP-EZ Atorvastatin+Ezetimibe
Atorvastatin is a chemical that poisons one of the enzymes your body employ to produce cholesterol. Thus the liver cannot make as much clolesterol as it tried to. In this way the measured blood levels of cholesterol is reduced. It is often prescribed to be taken on an empty stomach anyway. In some people it causes severe muscle inflammation, even "rhabdomyolysis" or breakdown of muscles. But in most people it is quite safe.
Ezetemibe blocks the ability of the cells in your gut to absorb the cholesterol you have eaten. Not necessary to use when you don't eat!
7.Combiflam/ibuprofen+paracetamol[/quote]
Paracetamol is universally safe in fasting people. Americans tend to call it Acetaminophen, jut to be different from the rest of the world. It blocks the effect of certain Prostaglandins, so that the nerves does not send as many pain messages.
Ibuprofen is a more potent prostaglandin antagonist, which also reduces inflammation. Theoretically it can predispose you to the development of stomach ulcers, but this has not been observed to happen in the real world like it does with most other drugs in this class."
Here is an opinion on the medicines for me.Do you confirm?
"1.Pantocid/pantoprazole : This is a proton pump inhibitor. It destroy the ability of the G-cells in the stomach to produce HCl (Hydrochloric acid), so that the stomach content is less acid. One important side effect is that your own enzymes (in particular pepsin and proteases) no lunger function well, and food may remain undigested.
But at the same time it has an effect similar to a meal, which would serve to neutralize some of the HCl during the digestive process. Continuing this drug during a fast will "protect" your stomach to the possible side effects of the others, making it in general terms safe to take them all during a fast.
2.Amifru-s/Fusemide IP +spironolactone IP
Both frusemide (Furosemide) and spironolactone are diuretics. They destroy the ability of the tubular cells in the kidney, to re-absorb water from the "primary filtrate". Thus you lose water that the body would normally have re-absorbed. Personally I find it rather difficult to appreciate the rationale of this class of drug as its entire effect is negated simply by drinking another glass or 2 of water. BUT they have been found quite effective in improving the signs and symptoms of heart failure and are totally safe to use during a fast. Frusemide cause loss of potassium but spironolactone (a steroid) cause potassium retention so theoretically their side effects balance out.
3.Deplatt A 75/clopidogrel+asprin
Both Clopidrogel and Aspirin reduce the "stickiness" of blood platelets, so you are considerably less prone to form blood clots. You are then of course also more prone to bleed. Theoretically large doses of Aspirin can contribute to stomach ulcers, but not
- for a short period of fasting (less than say 2 weeks)
- in the low dosages used here (75 milligrams- see my previous entry) and
- In the presence of Pantoprazole.
4.B complex forte +Vitamin C
I am on record as almost blankly opposing the idea of "supplements". There are no scientifically verified data that they do anything more than swell the bank accounts of the "manufacturers". Vitamins, once removed from their natural "ambience" often do more harm than good. You should get them from your diet.
5.Cordarone/Amiodarone
Amiodarone (as mentioned before) is quite safe on an empty stomach, particularly under the circumstances mentioned under (3) above.
6-ATORLIP-EZ Atorvastatin+Ezetimibe
Atorvastatin is a chemical that poisons one of the enzymes your body employ to produce cholesterol. Thus the liver cannot make as much clolesterol as it tried to. In this way the measured blood levels of cholesterol is reduced. It is often prescribed to be taken on an empty stomach anyway. In some people it causes severe muscle inflammation, even "rhabdomyolysis" or breakdown of muscles. But in most people it is quite safe.
Ezetemibe blocks the ability of the cells in your gut to absorb the cholesterol you have eaten. Not necessary to use when you don't eat!
7.Combiflam/ibuprofen+paracetamol[/quote]
Paracetamol is universally safe in fasting people. Americans tend to call it Acetaminophen, jut to be different from the rest of the world. It blocks the effect of certain Prostaglandins, so that the nerves does not send as many pain messages.
Ibuprofen is a more potent prostaglandin antagonist, which also reduces inflammation. Theoretically it can predispose you to the development of stomach ulcers, but this has not been observed to happen in the real world like it does with most other drugs in this class."
Thank you all.
'"Maybe the patient decided he wanted to go against medical advice and chose not to take any medication."
Dear Ed34,
Who is under this sun who can go with medical advice in letter and spirit.?It depends upon the extent of faith and circumstances.On the contrary,science never gives any verdict.So medical advice not necessarily can be the gospel of truth. Confounding facts may alter the medical advice itself. At the moment, while complying with medical advice I am exploring the best possible life style for years to come.
'"Maybe the patient decided he wanted to go against medical advice and chose not to take any medication."
Dear Ed34,
Who is under this sun who can go with medical advice in letter and spirit.?It depends upon the extent of faith and circumstances.On the contrary,science never gives any verdict.So medical advice not necessarily can be the gospel of truth. Confounding facts may alter the medical advice itself. At the moment, while complying with medical advice I am exploring the best possible life style for years to come.
Does anyone know how medication is processed in the stomach after gastro by pass. I know that any medication that is extended relief does not work, but what about Psychotropic drugs like zoloff, namenda, aricept, etc? Anyone know how the stomach processes medication?
Medications are not absorbed by the stomach obviously, nothing is. Medications are coated with other substances to help them get through the stomach so they can be broken down and absorbed by the small intestine. For example, gastric resistant Aspirin has a coating which gives the stomach a tough time attacking it, so the actual medication isn't presented to the stomach lining. Many drug companies make their medications in a variety of coatings. I've had plavix range in size from about 5mm to 10mm. The amount of medication is the same, just the coating alters. Your Doctor should be able to find out if your medication is available in a smaller coating and prescribe it. I believe you still have a small stomach in the form of a pouch connected directly to your small intestine, but obviously far less acid?
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