PVCs= Electrolytes or Adrenaline?

Question

I am posting this question to get some feedback on what many of you think are causing PVCs. 

Right now I am attempting to reduce my PVCs by adding electrolyte supplements. I am taking 500 mg magnesium, potassium, sea salt, etc.

They seem to be less, but I am still having episodes. These episodes tend to occur after excitement or strenous activity. They last for several minutes to an hour and then subside. 

Does that sound like electrolytes or adrenaline? I'm not sure what else I can take at this point to balance the electrolytes. What can be done if it's adrenaline related? I stopped the metoprolol, so I'm not on any BB.

Thanks for your insight.

A7X062308 · Answer

First off never take supplements unless you have had your blood tested and are low. Too much mag or potassium can cause serious even fatal heart issues. That being said If you are low it would deff show symptoms like arrythmia. Adrenaline can cause alot of weird problems in your body. Adrenaline can also be set off by the subconscious mind. If you have to much adrenaline a dr would put you on a beta blocker to lower your adrenaline effect. Your best bet is to get a simple blood test. Thats the only way you will know. Supplementing without a blood test is dangerous.

toobit1 · Answer

Me: 30m of prozac 20mg of inedral a day now.

I have had anxiety over the years and I went on a major high elevation rock climb a month ago which triggered pvcs now for  a month!! I went in for stress test and they said everything sounds fine and they are just PVCS. I get them when my heart rate goes up in the gym and then i freak out.

The inderal has helped I'm on my 9th day of it. Does it get better? I still get a couple strong palps in the gym when my heart rate goes up. I used to be an avid crossfitter and I'm wondering if i damaged my electrodes in my heart or something :(


Scared that i will never be normal.

dmacd74 · Answer

I don't care about being addicted to Klonopin.  I take it because it gets my anxiety about pvcs down and eventually the pvcs lessen and become less of a hard thump.  I can live with the "softer" kind - even if they are bigeminy.  The hard thumps are tough to take, a little form of torture for me.  I am also on 50 mg of Toprol - no side affects.  I've been able to lose weight on it and I think it does help a little.  I went to a new EP yesterday and today I will try to post what I learned.  Mostly, I always thought I was a great candidate for ablation - unifocal, right ventricular - he said "No".  I think I would be a difficult candidate for him so he doesn't want to do it (I think he may not be skillful enough for the tougher ablations - he wants them easy and that's fine - I want total confidence in the cath lab).  So I am off to the Big Wig in Boston on September 6th.  Still thumping, more later.

Debbie

Mom2four85 · Answer

rilesnic, my last cardiologist said my psych dr could put me on 5 meds and would give me a list my next appointment, those 5 are supposed to help with my arrhythmia's, fainting, and help control my anxiety/depression issues...the one they put me on was Lamictal; but I'm still waiting on his cardiac clearance for it, but I'm going to ask about Xanax because I have seen so many here have success with it.  

Are you going to ask your dr for one of the implantable loop recorders? sorry I should know this but my mushy mind just can't remember.

both the cardio and psych dr said many anti anxiety meds work well for arrhythmia's, with my problems I'm limited in what I can take; Mzak69 you may want to ask your dr also if this may help your case; I'm at the point I'll try anything to help

rilesnic · Answer

Sorry mzak69, I thought I wrote in who my post was to. Yes...I figured you had a definite diagnosis and were just asking for input. I was responding to the lethal PVC's post. 

To Mom and Delta...I believe I go into afib at times, but have never caught it...I think I need a loop recorder because I've had everything else. I take half of a 25mg Atenolol every night, because more makes me a complete zombie, and will take half of a .25 mg xanax when my heart goes out of control for more than a few seconds, but a 30 pill script lasts me about 3 years, and I throw some of those away.

My cardio told me to take half of a xanax every night, I do not for fear of becoming dependent. He does not believe such a small dose will cause me to, but I'm not convinced.

DeltaDawn23 · Answer

Try Xanax to block adrenaline.  I take half of a .25 mg., up to 4 pills a day and it helps.  It will slow my heart down, that and Atenolol 25 mg.  I take that in 1/4's up to 2 pills a day.  Atenolol causes me less dizziness as it does not, according to the cardio, cross the blood-brain barrier.  The shrink I went to for my "panic" attacks (actually later found to be Afib) said I am on such a low dose that it is not addictive.  My cardio does not agree, but it has gotten me through so far.  I don't take as much on the weekend.  I agree that anger and stress, has to be under control.  In each of the 6 Afib attacks I've had, I was highly stressed.  I am now taking Norpace, which is helping -- I am 3 months without am Afib episode.  Cardio says if I go a year with no Afib he will take me off of the Norpace, and perhaps the coumadin.  Good luck to you.

Mom2four85 · Answer

the only thing I've found to work is Inderal; which after 2 years started having major breakthroughs so my dr switched me to Inderal LA to see if it would help even out things a bit plus it's the only thing I've tried that doesn't have the major side effects the others I've tried has...if the LA doesn't work then it's on to [cringe] anti-arrhythmic's which I refuse to take.

curmudgen · Answer

Toprol XL is metoprolol succinate the time release form of metoprolol succinate...Could try only 25mg a day of succinate?  There are other BB that might work...BB don't really help with PVC's and in some cases increase them due to the lower heart rate.  I am with you with the pills...once on them it is hard to get off.  Considering the alternatives I can live with PVC's...they won't kill us even though at times it feels like it.

mzak69 · Answer

I was on Toprol XL 25mg and then Metaprolol tartrate 25 mg twice a day. I felt tired, sluggish, and also it made it harder to perform (if you know what I mean). I said, enough of this, I can't live like this anymore. I'm 41 and felt like 81. My BB experiment is over unless there is a BB out there that takes away PVCs without thos side effects.

It's a quality of life issue for me: live with the BB side effects or try to deal with the PVCs without the BB. BTW, I still felt the PVCs with the BB, only they were more subtle. Plus, I didn't want to fall into the trap of taking another pill the rest of my life.

curmudgen · Answer

post script to above post - being off BB then you would be more sensitive to the effects of adrenalin....why not try 50 mg of metoprolol/day and see if that might help reduce the onset of PVC's...   I used to get bi- and trigeminy that drove me nuts and discovered that they disappeared when I lowered my dosage of metoprolol from 150/day to 100.  Now I get single PVC's for short periods and not every day...I am presently experimenting with Slow-Mg and using morton's lite salt - mixture of sodium and potassium...seems to work.  I am a chemistry experiment in progress....good luck.

curmudgen · Answer

It seems logical that adrenalin makes the heart beat faster/harder thereby raising BP, electrolytes control membrane physiology and an imbalance in the latter would change the electrical activity of heart cells. Electrolyte imbalance is hard to manage since it takes many days to change the electrolyte levels in the blood stream...and which one is slightly out of kilter with respect to the others is tough to determine unless a blood test comes back with significant shifts in their levels. I just keep experimenting, like a chemistry experiment, a week of extra this and a week of extra that until the PVC's disappear and the I still don't know what works since they come back out of no where and attack again..

dmacd74 · Answer

I know how you feel, I am currently going through a terrible bout myself.  I went to an EP this morning and learned some new information.  As soon as I collect my thoughts I will post.

Debbie

mzak69 · Answer

I've had all the tests you can have (stress, echo, ekg, holter, event monitor, etc). I've been told by 2 cardiologists and an EP that my heart is structurally fine and these PVCs are benign. I thought perhaps you all knew that from my previous posts. 

I am trying to determine how to get them under control. They are putting a damper on my quality of life. I was hoping someone had an opinion on whether their PVCs were caused by an electrolyte imbalance or from increased adrenaline and if you have found a different way of dealing with it.

rilesnic · Answer

I actually read, some time ago, and can't remember where, that people who have PVC's and PAC's are more likely to survive should the heart go into a severe arrythmia than people who've never had a heart symptom...the logic if I remember right was the cells causing the PVC' and PAC's would be more likely to cause the heart to go back into rhythm than people who didn't have PVC's or PAC's...like I said, I can't remember where I read it and so I can't cite a source or prove it to be true, but it is logical. If the heart's main pacemaker completely stops, the crazy PVC cells may kick in and get it beating again.

PVC's in structurally normal hearts with no other underlying cardiac disease, are said to be benign. Of course, your doctor should determine this.

My cardio told me I am at no more risk of sudden cardiac arrest than the average Joe who has never had a PVC or PAC.

Everyone is different and anytime you feel palps or have a change in them, you should let your doctor know. 

I can say that mine or very symptomatic and wear me out. A lot of times I think I'm going to die they make me feel so bad. My heart definitely does it's own thing.

Mom2four85 · Answer

also, for more information visit the National Dysautonomia Research Foundation's (ndrf.org) website and click The autonomic nervous system; it has alot of useful information about the ANS and how it affects our "inner" workings all of the automatic things that go on inside; including our heart.

Up top if you click Learn More - there is The NDRF Patient Handbook you can d/l in pdf format that has more information and is a bit easier to read with easy to understand explanations of how the heart, ans and brain are all connected and work together

once I learned how these are all connected and work like a team or against each other, it was a bit easier to deal with my symptoms...

Mom2four85 · Answer

I forgot to add - in the "normally structural heart" now if you have structural problems such as CAD, cardiomyopathies, valve disease etc, that's a whole new ballgame

Mom2four85 · Answer

Ken1945 "PVCs can lead to a more lethal arrhythmias"...they can? can you explain where that information comes from? define "lethal"? I'd love to hear your information about this since I've found very little on dangerous arrhythmia's in the past 2 years.

I ask because during the last health chat a few weeks ago I asked about this topic http://www.medhelp.org/health_chats/archive/64 and this is one of most asked question I've seen in this community

mzak69 have you been evaluated by a dr and what did they find? it's important to know what's going on so you can treat the arrhythmia; don't ignore symptoms like I did and end up with a larger problem in the end

all arrhythmia's should be evaluated by a cardiologist & EP with a full cardiac workup and blood work that includes an electrolyte panel to check for things like magnesium, potassium etc; until you do that please be careful adding supplements in case you're already too high in one of them.

there's always alot of debate about arrhythmia's between doctors as well as the medical community as a whole; in general they say unless you're very symptomatic or over say 15-20% of pvc's daily dr's wont' even look at ablation and normally they treat 6,000 - 8,000 pvc's daily with meds & lifestyle changes unless there are other circumstances

I believe adrenaline driven arrhythmia's are due to a mixed signal between the brain, ANS (autonomic nervous system) and heart; or at least that's what I've been told when I talk to my drs.  

I haven't found anything that calms mine; it's a running joke in my family about me being the Hulk..I can't get angry when I do my heart beats out of my chest :P  I would love to know if you find something; I can't take alot of supplements due to my quirky ANS and ICD.

Ken1945 · Answer

Are you seeing a doctor or cardiologist? This is a serious arrhythmia and something that  requires a knowledgeable doctor. PVCs can lead to a more lethal arrhythmias. It means that certain cells in the ventricles are initiating a beat because they are irritable. This is not something that you can treat yourself. Good luck.

mzak69 · Answer

I can add supplements to balance the electrolytes, but what can you do about adrenaline induced PVCs? Is there anybody out there with success stories?

merileegal · Answer

If my electrolytes are out of whack, I do get palps.I also get them with adrenaline whether it is from stress or from foods that rev up the metabolism like caffeine or chocolate. I've wondered if having the electrolytes out of whack affects the adrenaline.

mzak69 · Answer

I have also had times where I was upset and it brought on the PVCs. I've come to learn that I cannot allow myself to get upset (like road rage when another driver does something stupid) because it's not worth the consequences (more PVCs).

Regarding the sea salt, the way I use it is by drinking more water and taking a dab on my finger with each glass. It seems to help, and hasn't affected my bp.  

Funny, I took a magnesium supplement (natural calm) and that made me dizzy.

rilesnic · Answer

I had a rough time last night, all night. I got extrememly upset yesterday over an incident at work, although I'm on vacation for the summer, and I woke up every 4-5 minutes for the first 3 hours I tried to sleep last night. My PVC's were pounding me with a vengance. I felt every skipped beat and every bound. I even woke this morning with them still going strong. For me, adrenaline plays a huge part.

Electrolytes...I tried sea salt a while back and every time I took it, about 20 minutes later I became very dizzy and lightheaded. I do believe electrolytes play an important role as well, I just haven't found which one is lacking in my case.